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Topic: A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Arc_DT
Title: Mithan said I am smart
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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I haven't... I was going to check it out of the library until I realized I could hunt small animals with it.
But I did just see part 1/3 on Netflix, and it was a little different than I had always been lead to believe. What I want to know is how true to the book are some aspects of the movie.
I understood the premise of at least a lot of Ayn rand's philosophy and presumably this book itself was that working toward one's own self interests would ultimately be better for the general population than directly promoting the public interest. The way the movie went, however, did NOT put these two approaches into a dichotomy. What I saw instead was advancements toward communism far ahead of a modern American liberal's hottest wet dream that were being put in place NOT in the "public interest" but merely by people promoting their own self-interests but using the government as a tool to do so, with the thin disguise of being in the public interest.
That unfortunately boils down to a slippery-slope or strawman fallacy at best, that these people were evil because they were at an extreme edge of collectivism and nowhere near the margins that existed when this book was written, and certainly not a case of altruism failing, but instead crony capitalism failing miserably. If the movie is indeed true to her, then any liberal could use this as a shining example of what happens when capitalists try to manipulate the government to their own selfish ends, and altruism still rings as the best course of action.
I don't want to debate her work with the wrong viewpoint of it. I fear I might have to dedicate a huge chunk of my life to actually reading the book, which isn't going to get me hot and bothered like it would a libertarian so it's definitely likely a huge waste of my time.
Can anybody help me out here?
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rabbitslayer
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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tldr
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Dark_EternalFF
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Why didn't you just PM BT? He probably has a 'Bible Study Group'
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Max Fox (AC), Zygran (WoW, SWTOR) "We poison our air and water to weed out the weak! We set off fission bombs in our only biosphere! We nailed our God to a stick! Don't fk with the human race!" DE/Mr Pants 2012 
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Arc_DT
Title: Mithan said I am smart
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Because while I'm sure BT masturbates to it, I can't trust his explanations for anything.
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"... We just need a president to sign this stuff... Pick a Republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president."
-Grover Norquist
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MICHIGAN - Where the trees are the right height!
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Rhodoman
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Just read the book and figure it out for yourself.
Rho
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Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
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.Sylva.
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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I did actually read the book, but I think Ayn Rand took her point and clobbered me over the head with it enough that I ended up being brain-damaged.
Sorry.
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Elitist.
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Rhodoman
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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There wasn't anything Ayn needed more in this world than a good editor.
Rho
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Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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Kanga_Roo
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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.Sylva. posted:
I did actually read the book, but I think Ayn Rand took her point and clobbered me over the head with it enough that I ended up being brain-damaged.
Sorry.
Exactly
200 page idea - 1200 pages of text. Good idea poor execution.
One movie should have been enough. I only hope they improve upon Ayn's ridiculous ending.
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Gaevren
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Her whole premise was that pure capitalism is good. People should be able to profit. The villains all wanted to bring down the capitalists, the "people who could", because they didn't think it was "fair" that some people and companies did better because the people running them were best at what they did. So the whole idea of the villains was two-fold. First, hamstring the "better" and "more talented" to bring them down to everyone else's level, and if that doesn't fail, essentially force them to volunteer all their efforts and talents because if you're better than everyone else at something, it's "your duty" to benefit society. Not yourself though, that would be evil.
Where her story totally, completely, and utterly fails is treating all of the protagonists (capitalists) as though they're all good people. Not a single one was dishonest. They all paid their employees fair wages (based on what the employee was worth). Slavery would have been appalling. They all wanted to turn a profit and compete, but they were all moral and ethical and upright about it. They all "played fair". Yeahhhhhh dreaming much? Doesn't work that way in the real world. In the real world you get some of those people, but more who are motivated by pure greed and will gladly stomp all over everyone else in order to get what they want.
That was what I took from it, anyway.
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purplehugmonkey
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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You can think of it as an ideological counterpoint to socialism basically. No good reason to read the whole thing.
It makes the case by neglecting gray area entirely so it isn't much realistic use, but the point is pretty straight-forward.
Capitalism > Socialism because socialism sucks for talented/highly capable people.
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Ptilk
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Don't read that steaming pile of crap, the Cliff Notes version will take you about 5 minutes and tell you everything you need to know.
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/literature/Atlas-Shrugged-Book-Summary.id-7,pageNum-1.html
In her imaginary play world, everyone except a few men and women are parasites, government is always not only evil, but stupid, all capitalists are geniuses and have absolutely impeccable morals and want nothing more than to create their product while paying fair wages and treating workers like gold.....WTF?
The really sad part of this is that some people read this sci-fi abomination and believe in it. I read it for the first time in my teens and thought it was powerful and interesting and made some good points. Then I grew up and when I read it again in my 30's I was mature enough to see how one dimensional and stereotypical all her characters were and how her belief that capitalism is always good and everything else is always bad....was not only illogical and wrong, it is moronic.
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vn_last_man-mt
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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"What I saw instead was advancements toward communism far ahead of a modern American liberal's hottest wet dream that were being put in place NOT in the "public interest" but merely by people promoting their own self-interests but using the government as a tool to do so, with the thin disguise of being in the public interest."
Hate to break this, but this describes CA union thuggery to a 'T'.
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levgre
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Ptilk posted:
Don't read that steaming pile of crap, the Cliff Notes version will take you about 5 minutes and tell you everything you need to know.
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/literature/Atlas-Shrugged-Book-Summary.id-7,pageNum-1.html
In her imaginary play world, everyone except a few men and women are parasites, government is always not only evil, but stupid, all capitalists are geniuses and have absolutely impeccable morals and want nothing more than to create their product while paying fair wages and treating workers like gold.....WTF?
The really sad part of this is that some people read this sci-fi abomination and believe in it. I read it for the first time in my teens and thought it was powerful and interesting and made some good points. Then I grew up and when I read it again in my 30's I was mature enough to see how one dimensional and stereotypical all her characters were and how her belief that capitalism is always good and everything else is always bad....was not only illogical and wrong, it is moronic.
While this is all true, it's sort of understandable as she grew up in communist Russia. She didn't have examples of bad capitalists, since capitalists didn't exist there.
And compared to Russia, US was paradise, and the 'greedy' rich capitalists were the most stark and visible difference between the two worlds.
Ayn Rand wasn't dumb, she just came from a different time and a different world. Her followers just make her look bad by reading her propaganda and becoming closed off to contrary views.
No matter how intelligent a writer might be, they can still be constrained by their own background and life experiences.
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warflea
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Why not read the book? If you are waiting for someone to tell you what to think, take your pick of the posts here. But understand that doing so would go counter to the ideas presented in the book.
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Rhodoman
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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warflea posted:
Why not read the book? If you are waiting for someone to tell you what to think, take your pick of the posts here. But understand that doing so would go counter to the ideas presented in the book.
Heh, Very true.
Rho
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Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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Hyperimiator
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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The invisible hand is greed, a force of evil.
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LadyMetropolis
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Is it true that 2/3 of the book is basically one, extremely long-winded speech? Guessing that is exaggerated but I heard it was LOOOOONG(imagine the mother of all wall-of texts, long).
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purplehugmonkey
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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That's not true, it's only maybe 30-40 pages, but it is extremely long-winded.
She makes her point in like the first 2 pages and the rest is redundant.
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Rhodoman
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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LadyMetropolis posted:
Is it true that 2/3 of the book is basically one, extremely long-winded speech? Guessing that is exaggerated but I heard it was LOOOOONG(imagine the mother of all wall-of texts, long).
That's a bit of an exaggeration. There's a lot of speechifying and she writes the same 10-15 page diatribe half a dozen times throughout the book (okay, one of them is probably 30-35 pages). Each time it's the same exact point, but it comes up from a different character or different plot point. Each time it happens you get this "Haven't I heard this speech already?" feeling along with a "Okay, OKAY, you don't need a DOZEN PAGES TO TELL ME THIS AGAIN" reaction.
There's a lot of plot, as well, but the book could have been easily made half the size with ANY editing, at all; probably a third if it were edited well.
Rho
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Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
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-Mithan-
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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The problem with a book is that you can write everything to act in a way that supports your ideas. You control everything that happens in a book.
The problem with real life is that you do not control anything, which is why Political and Economic Sciences are always right for a while and then wrong for a while and then right again.
Atlas Shrugged has some good ideas but ultimately, it is a fantasy novel. Yes, some people toss it up as "proof" that her view of society can exist but it isn't proof in any way.
It is like the United States which was supposed to be "protected" by a constitution, which we know was never perfect and over the years, has slowly been usurped. Great in theory, not so great in practice.
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Rhodoman
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A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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The gap between theory and reality is smaller in theory than it is in reality.
Rho
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Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
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Gaevren
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Rhodoman posted:
LadyMetropolis posted:
Is it true that 2/3 of the book is basically one, extremely long-winded speech? Guessing that is exaggerated but I heard it was LOOOOONG(imagine the mother of all wall-of texts, long).
That's a bit of an exaggeration. There's a lot of speechifying and she writes the same 10-15 page diatribe half a dozen times throughout the book (okay, one of them is probably 30-35 pages). Each time it's the same exact point, but it comes up from a different character or different plot point. Each time it happens you get this "Haven't I heard this speech already?" feeling along with a "Okay, OKAY, you don't need a DOZEN PAGES TO TELL ME THIS AGAIN" reaction.
There's a lot of plot, as well, but the book could have been easily made half the size with ANY editing, at all; probably a third if it were edited well.
Rho
When I was reading Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth Series, starting from about Book 6 on, it felt exactly like that. Every time Richard would open his mouth to start blah blah blah-ing I would start flipping pages to the end of his speechy rant. Goodkind was also completely unable to let the point make itself instead of beating you over the head with it repeatedly and endlessly. And Goodkind had editors!!
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-Dyslexia-
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A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force
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JD_HOGG
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A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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GEORGE R R MARTIN FEAST DESCRIPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Gaevren
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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-Dyslexia- posted:
This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force
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Allmightybob_MLF
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A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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I've heard Kant is an easier read.
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Gaevren posted:
-Dyslexia- posted:
This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force
/snickers
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Subject:
A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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Rearden heard Bertram Scudder, outside the group, say to a girl who made some sound of indignation, "Don't let him disturb you. You know, money is the root of all evil – and he's the typical product of money."
Rearden did not think that Francisco could have heard it, but he saw Francisco turning to them with a gravely courteous smile.
"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?
"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor – your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money. Is this what you consider evil?
"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions – and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.
"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made – before it can be looted or mooched – made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced.
"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort except by the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders. Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss – the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery – that you must offer them values, not wounds – that the common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of goods. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best your money can find. And when men live by trade – with reason, not force, as their final arbiter – it is the best product that wins, the best performance, then man of best judgment and highest ability – and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?
"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality – the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.
"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants; money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?
"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth – the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve that mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?
"Money is your means of survival. The verdict which you pronounce upon the source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your hatred of money?
"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause. Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and it will not redeem your vices. Money will not give you the unearned, neither in matter nor in spirit. Is this the root of your hatred of money?
"Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is the loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money – and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it.
"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another – their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.
"But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride, or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich – will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt – and of his life, as he deserves.
"Then you will see the rise of the double standard – the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money – the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law – men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims – then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.
"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion – when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing – when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors – when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you – when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice – you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.
"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it becomes, marked: 'Account overdrawn.'
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying the world?' You are.
"You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, while you're damning its life-blood – money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, deprived of honor. That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves – slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer. Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers – as industrialists.
"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money – and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being – the self-made man – the American industrialist.
"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose – because it contains all the others – the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money'. No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity – to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted, or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.
"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide – as, I think, he will.
"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns – or dollars. Take your choice – there is no other – and your time is running out."
-----signature-----
You win ACF, dude - Osmenthe
BT is usually right - Onslaught
i think we need more BT on page 1 - FighterUSAF
Yep, BT is right - Aerlinthian
Got guns & ammo? Food? Precious metals?
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-Foxy-
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A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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"the end"
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Long suffering vassal to Xarkath, U.P. - Forever and ever
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Reapist
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.Sylva. posted:
I did actually read the book, but I think Ayn Rand took her point and clobbered me over the head with it enough that I ended up being brain-damaged.
Sorry.
That's how I felt about Dianetics. I got about 30 pages into it and realized I didn't wash to be brainwashed.
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pkhere: Jebus sometimes you make my arse tired.
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
I'd feel bad for Satriani but he got himself into it. - allmightybob_MLF
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Rhodoman
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-Dyslexia- posted:
This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force
I was beginning to wonder when you'd show up. 
Rho
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Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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DunesVladHarkonnen
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A question for those of you who've actually read all 1200 pages of Atlas Shrugged
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I slugged through it (of my own volition)
She beats you over the head with her ideas, in an extremely none subtle way...
But there is a grain of truth to the tale.
I have not watched the movie to compare...sorry.
-----signature-----
There's some delight in ale and wine,
And some in girls with ankles fine,
But my delight, yes, always mine,
Is to dance with Jak o' the Shadows.
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Ah-Schoo
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Brother_Tempus posted:
<I poop on your thread!>
It was inevitable.
-----signature-----
.
Opinion = fact. Anecdote = proof. Political label more important than either of those.
Welcome to ACF, where debate goes to die.
.
"fascist totalitarian secular progressive Zionist intellectually challenged Christian puppets." - Aerlinthina
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LadyMetropolis
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"Money is the root of all evil. Man needs roots" - BT
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(none)
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Hyperimiator
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http://phoebe53.wordpress.com/2012/02/14/new-breeding-program-aimed-at-keeping-moderate-republicans-from-going-extinct/
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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-Dyslexia-
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Rhodoman posted:
-Dyslexia- posted:
This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force
I was beginning to wonder when you'd show up.
Rho
You have to admit, she was one of a kind.
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CFO BOREDOM & USELESS SPAM CO.
"Dys, If you cannot stand the heat...get your hand outta my panties...." n00berness
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Fozzie_Bear
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Hyperimiator posted:
The invisible hand is greed, a force of evil.
buddy. even with the divorce, you realize that if you get what you ask for, you're gonna be in the stewing in the pot?
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The Oatmeal Butterscotch paired with a Snickerdoodle
turned my cynical penis into a happy vagina
Then after an Oatmeal Cranberry and Double Chocolate,
it made my new vagina spontaneously sing the Trolololo Song in an elevator.
---AkagiyamaMissile
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Hyperimiator
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Fozzie_Bear posted:
Hyperimiator posted:
The invisible hand is greed, a force of evil.
buddy. even with the divorce, you realize that if you get what you ask for, you're gonna be in the stewing in the pot?
I don't have money just lots of credit, I am thinking of spending the end of the world date this year in Amsterdam, partying down my borrowed money dude.
I mean what better place than the Red Light District of Amsterdam for the end of days.
-----signature-----
The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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Gibbon_raver
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-Foxy- posted:
"the end"
lol
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Gibbon_raver
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Ah-Schoo posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
<I poop on your thread!>
It was inevitable.
lol again
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