faefrost
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Just a great article giving a good example of how the progressive tax system works and fails to work. Real simple, real amusing.
http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/danieljmitchell/2012/03/19/the_tax_system_explained_in_beer
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JD_HOGG
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OMG EXpLAINS IT ALL !!! I had no idea how it worked before that!
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HeartView
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IT'S NOT WORKING! THE TAXES, THEY DO NOTHING!
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JD_HOGG
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HeartView posted:
IT'S NOT WORKING! THE TAXES, THEY DO NOTHING!
I TRY SO HARD TO DO THIS < STILL NO FREE BEEAR!!!
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HeartView
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Why you want free bear?
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JD_HOGG
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HeartView posted:
Why you want free bear?
FOR MY TXAES!
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ikkoikki
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Could you please explain the tax system with marijuana? I'm sorry, I don't quite grasp it like this.
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HeartView
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JD_HOGG
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ikkoikki posted:
Could you please explain the tax system with marijuana? I'm sorry, I don't quite grasp it like this.
1. Legalize it
2. Tax it
3. ???
4 PROFIT!
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Eradiani
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that's a pretty stupid tale honestly and is older then hell. If the 10th man truly paid that much and didn't get every damn way out of paying that possible then there would be a lot less issues. However, (and in many cases the 10th man in the US is corporations), we all see endless stories where corporations pay damn near nothing in US taxes
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Rhodoman
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The scary part of that story is how absurd it isn't.
Rho
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Rhodoman
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Eradiani posted:
we all see endless stories where corporations pay damn near nothing in US taxes
After next month (when Japan drops its corporate tax rate), the U.S. will have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Politically connected folks get favors and shouldn't, but to argue that companies aren't taxed enough here in the U.s. is ridiculous.
Rho
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Brother_Tempus
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From the article :
"he people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier."
This has happened in New Jersey and Virginia and other states that went after the millionaires ... the millionaires moved and the poor and middle-class ( the ones government "was helping" ) took the full brunt of the costs
And if the US does not lower its corporate taxes, you are going to see some leave once Japan lowers its taxes.
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Eradiani
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Rhodoman posted:
Eradiani posted:
we all see endless stories where corporations pay damn near nothing in US taxes
After next month (when Japan drops its corporate tax rate), the U.S. will have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Politically connected folks get favors and shouldn't, but to argue that companies aren't taxed enough here in the U.s. is ridiculous.
Rho
They aren't when they fudge the numbers into tax safe heavens to make it look like the US division is at a net loss or at best working at essentially 0 profit to avoid that taxation.
I agree that we need to lower corporate taxes but at the same time get rid of this fudging the numbers BS
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I reserve my right to arm bears.
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Maleraka
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Rhodoman posted:
The scary part of that story is how absurd it isn't.
Rho
QFT
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Rhodoman
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Eradiani posted:
They aren't when they fudge the numbers into tax safe heavens to make it look like the US division is at a net loss or at best working at essentially 0 profit to avoid that taxation.
I agree that we need to lower corporate taxes but at the same time get rid of this fudging the numbers BS
Tax dodging is illegal and is prosecuted. Do you have any specific examples of how this is happening or what companies are doing it? Are they loopholes or tax fraud? Could it be that you're just parroting some talking points?
Rho
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OG_Loki
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Rhodoman posted:
Eradiani posted:
They aren't when they fudge the numbers into tax safe heavens to make it look like the US division is at a net loss or at best working at essentially 0 profit to avoid that taxation.
I agree that we need to lower corporate taxes but at the same time get rid of this fudging the numbers BS
Tax dodging is illegal and is prosecuted. Do you have any specific examples of how this is happening or what companies are doing it? Are they loopholes or tax fraud? Could it be that you're just parroting some talking points?
Rho
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Kanga_Roo
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Rhodoman posted:
Eradiani posted:
They aren't when they fudge the numbers into tax safe heavens to make it look like the US division is at a net loss or at best working at essentially 0 profit to avoid that taxation.
I agree that we need to lower corporate taxes but at the same time get rid of this fudging the numbers BS
Tax dodging is illegal and is prosecuted. Do you have any specific examples of how this is happening or what companies are doing it? Are they loopholes or tax fraud? Could it be that you're just parroting some talking points?
Rho
What is sad is what they do is often legal. Our representatives have legitimized it. Ask Romney for specifics.
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jeune
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It is how funny how bad that analogy is.
We all get the same tax treatment for the same amount of money... our first 10k is pretty much untaxed... then it grow over our next bracket... 10% for (10k-25k).... etc
The dude is pretty much arguing that we should subject more of ALL of OUR money to taxation because he wants to punish the person who chooses to earn less money than to get taxed more.
It shows the mentality of people... To cut off your nose to spite your face
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Rhodoman
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All of our income should be taxed the same as all of the rest of our income.
Rho
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jeune
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Rhodoman posted:
All of our income should be taxed the same as all of the rest of our income.
Rho
Why?
Why do republicans always want to tax people who dont have money... does it give them a boner just pissing people off... even when they are just giving themselves another tax?
do people even think?
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Rhodoman
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jeune posted:
Rhodoman posted:
All of our income should be taxed the same as all of the rest of our income.
Rho
Why?
Why do republicans always want to tax people who dont have money... does it give them a boner just pissing people off... even when they are just giving themselves another tax?
do people even think?
It's an INCOME tax. People who have an INCOME would pay the tax. Everybody participates fairly. Isn't that what everybody keeps whining about?
Make a buck, pay a dime in taxes. When EVERYONE is paying taxes and recognizes them as taxes, they will start to give a damn about how stoopidly huge the government wasteful spending is.
Rho
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faefrost
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Eradiani posted:
However, (and in many cases the 10th man in the US is corporations), we all see endless stories where corporations pay damn near nothing in US taxes
OK once more, for the dimmer ones in the Room.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CORPORATE TAXES!!! THEY ARE A LIE!!! CORPORATIONS DO NOT "PAY" TAXES! TAXES ARE A PASS THROUGH EXPENSE FOR CORPORATIONS. THEY ARE A SALES TAX ON YOU. THE END CONSUMER. DISGUISED BY ANOTHER NAME BECAUSE YOUR POLITICAL LEADERSHIP KNOWS YOU WOULD BURN THEM ALIVE IF THEY ACTUALLY IMPOSED SAID SALES TAX ON YOU.
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faefrost
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jeune posted:
Rhodoman posted:
All of our income should be taxed the same as all of the rest of our income.
Rho
Why?
Why do republicans always want to tax people who dont have money... does it give them a boner just pissing people off... even when they are just giving themselves another tax?
do people even think?
The most basic reason of all, accountability. If everyone has some skin in the game, then everyone has legitimate reason to care about how much we are actually spending as a nation and on what. When for 50% of the citizenry the public treasury is a magic wishing bag, then any and all accountability to the electorate evaporates in a binge of self serving greed. If, regardless of your income level, you know that 22 cents of every dollar you earn will be spent by the government, you will make sure that the government spends that money cautiously, and does not find cause to ask for more. If however all of that money comes from someone else, then you will insist that the government spend it freely regardless of wisdom or consequences.
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jeune
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I understand your point and see nothing wrong with a nominal 3-5% tax on any income just to make sure everyone is paying something. I highly doubt enforcement would even be worth the nominal amount though... it is just ideological garbage.
What is wrong with our current system.
the first amount of money we make goes to our basic needs... the government should not be able to deprive us of basic human rights.
the next bracket the money is still worth more to us so it is taxed at a lower rate.
the next bracket is still worth more than the next and the next.
No one is forcing you to make obscene amounts of money... what are you arguing?! That pretty much we should set up an absurd simplistic crap that will hurt the vast majority of Americans?
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Wulfgarr
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False analogy is false.
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Eradiani
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how about you just google search corporations paying nearly no tax and look at the articles. Sure some could be misleading, but there are dozens upon dozens of them.
It's pretty simple in how it works. Items are made overseas. The US business BUYS the item from the overseas division for pretty much what they sell the item for and so when they do sell the item it marks as 0 profit from the sale. But all the profit is being shown in the overseas division.
This is the kind of tax loophole that pretty much every corporation is exploiting and it's 100% legal because our taxation system is about as retarded as the average US citizen
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Second_Chance
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Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beers and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men who all got to be in the air conditioning of the tavern and could not afford to drink would pay nothing because they only smelled it
The fifth man who got enough of one beer to wet his tongue would pay $1
The sixth man who got a 1/12 sixth of one beer would pay $3
The seventh man who got a 1/6 seventh of one beer would pay $7
The eighth man who got a 2/6 sixth of one beer would pay $12
The ninth man who drank an entire beer by himself would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) who drank 9 beers would pay $59
And that tenth man, bitch ass republican whore would cry about the tab.
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If you included their actual incomes it would look something like this:
First 4 guys all make 20K or less
5-30K
6-40K
7-50K
8-60K
9-70K
10-57,000K
Boo fricken Hoo.
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I'm fine with a progressive tax system. But you shouldn't get to vote if you aren't paying taxes, or at the very least it should be proportional. It is inherently unfair for those receiving the boon of another's work via wealth transfer to have more say than the producers. Unfortunately we have reached that tipping point.
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We seem to be working under a false assumption - that our tax code is progressive. It appears to be but has so many legal loopholes it ends up being regressive.
Rich Pay More - think again
The useful dupes here on the board consistently whine about the wealthy paying more and the magic of cutting taxes on the wealthy need to read more.
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Ah-Schoo
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Rhodoman posted:
Eradiani posted:
we all see endless stories where corporations pay damn near nothing in US taxes
After next month (when Japan drops its corporate tax rate), the U.S. will have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Politically connected folks get favors and shouldn't, but to argue that companies aren't taxed enough here in the U.s. is ridiculous.
Rho
Republican talking point. Not reality.
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The income tax is progressive, the social security tax is regressive. The loopholes hork the entire system in ways that cannot be very simply explained. What it HAS done, however, is implemented a system of crony-under-taxation and legal tax dodging as well as federal tax credits to those who pay no income tax at all. Wipe it all clean and implement a single simple flat tax on everyone's income.
Rho
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Ah-Schoo
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Flat tax has been debunked as unfair repeatedly.
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