AzureTyger
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Who really benefits from an arrangement where autonomous states are in direct or indirect competition with each other? The states need to exist to support bureaucracies, but as individual legal and economic regions, the entire idea is counterproductive and outdated.
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Z-Elder
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Yep. Most of the laws in red states are retarded and should be done away with in favor of blue state laws.
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DemonicXH
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Z-Elder posted:
Yep. Most of the laws in red states are retarded and should be done away with in favor of blue state laws.
They worked out well for California....
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Tych2
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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No and I hope they never do.
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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DemonicXH posted:
Z-Elder posted:
Yep. Most of the laws in red states are retarded and should be done away with in favor of blue state laws.
They worked out well for California....
Obviously...
Without California picking up the tab for most of the Red States you'd all look like holocaust victims...
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AzureTyger
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Z-Elder posted:
Yep. Most of the laws in red states are retarded and should be done away with in favor of blue state laws.
"States Rights" is generally just code for legalizing bigotry or selling the local populace out to some capitalist interest.
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Moe_Nox
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Or legalizing gay marriage currently.
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Yukishiro1
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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The idea of having (somewhat) different laws based on the will of people living in a given area is fine. There's so much redundancy that comes with having states, though.
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Spookysheep
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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With the economic collapse of America coming by 2016 (according to most experts), I think states probably have outlived their usefulness.
It is time to consolidate government resources, big time.
And as much as us shitkicking conservative types hate california, they do produce half the food in the country. California is not all urban areas you know....
Just sayin....
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armoredgimp
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Tych2 posted:
No and I hope they never do.
It may just be time to refresh that tree of liberty
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Kjarhall
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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The notion of states keeps us less "United" than if they didn't exist.
However, it is a way so people from either end of the spectrum have better living choices.
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paulg_68
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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AzureTyger posted:
Who really benefits from an arrangement where autonomous states are in direct or indirect competition with each other?
Everyone.
Nearly everything good done by the Federal government started at the state level. States are much more innovative than the federal government.
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the_great_intex
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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No. Not fiscally. I think fiscally wise micromanaging should be done at the state level. Now whether that happens in the federal government or the state government is another question. But there's a LOT of negatives to trying to fix problems with a broad sword
I think a great deal of laws should not be allowed -- and I personally think it is unconstitutional for the federal government to have the power -- to be passed at the federal level.
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Brother_Tempus
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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AzureTyger posted:
Who really benefits from an arrangement where autonomous states are in direct or indirect competition with each other?
Businesses, employees, individuals of conscious, those wishing to live in places without theocratic influence ....
Why did Europeans flock here to the US from Europe???
AzureTyger posted:
The states need to exist to support bureaucracies
No, the states need to exist to cancel out the powers of the federal government and the mob
Just as there are 3 branches of the federal government, there are three branches of sovereign control, each with its own place to balance out the powers of the others
Federal government, the states, and the people. The 10th Amendment states this quite clearly
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the_great_intex
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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There's also a great deal of laws that deal with states, such as inter-state commerce. I like the fact that states decide their commerce regulations until it goes over their boundaries
To me, the federal government is far to powerful as is. It has proven to me also that the federal government is incapable of spending tax payer money efficiently and that I wouldn't want them to gain even more power. The balance between states and the federal government I think is fundamental and if anything more power should be given back to the states
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Brother_Tempus
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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the_great_intex posted:
There's also a great deal of laws that deal with states, such as inter-state commerce. I like the fact that states decide their commerce regulations until it goes over their boundaries
To me, the federal government is far to powerful as is. It has proven to me also that the federal government is incapable of spending tax payer money efficiently and that I wouldn't want them to gain even more power. The balance between states and the federal government I think is fundamental and if anything more power should be given back to the states
You would have to repeal the 14th and 17th Amendments
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Tych2
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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armoredgimp posted:
Tych2 posted:
No and I hope they never do.
It may just be time to refresh that tree of liberty
Meaning? I am not a state's right guy.
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AzureTyger
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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the_great_intex posted:
No. Not fiscally. I think fiscally wise micromanaging should be done at the state level. Now whether that happens in the federal government or the state government is another question. But there's a LOT of negatives to trying to fix problems with a broad sword
I think a great deal of laws should not be allowed -- and I personally think it is unconstitutional for the federal government to have the power -- to be passed at the federal level.
A lot of things about our 18th century constitution are stupid and sucky in a modern context, it's really long past time for a rewrite. Right now it is nearly impossible for the people to enact change, but relatively easy for monied interests to do so. State autonomy is one of the biggest factors in the ability for businesses to abuse the people and the environment.
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Brother_Tempus
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Tych2 posted:
armoredgimp posted:
Tych2 posted:
No and I hope they never do.
It may just be time to refresh that tree of liberty
Meaning? I am not a state's right guy.
Meaning that the notions of nullification may need to be tested with vigor yet again , like the New England states did with the Fugitive Slave Act
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Yukishiro1
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Tych2 posted:
armoredgimp posted:
Tych2 posted:
No and I hope they never do.
It may just be time to refresh that tree of liberty
Meaning? I am not a state's right guy.
He wants you to join him in a blood-soaked rampage against people he doesn't like because he thinks that will further the aims of freedom.
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Brother_Tempus
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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AzureTyger posted:
the_great_intex posted:
No. Not fiscally. I think fiscally wise micromanaging should be done at the state level. Now whether that happens in the federal government or the state government is another question. But there's a LOT of negatives to trying to fix problems with a broad sword
I think a great deal of laws should not be allowed -- and I personally think it is unconstitutional for the federal government to have the power -- to be passed at the federal level.
A lot of things about our 18th century constitution are stupid and sucky in a modern context,
Only if you are a believer of tyranny ... the Constitutional Republic and its message of freedom is one of the newest political frameworks in the world today.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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It is getting to the point that changes are needed. For example the massive amount of money that goes from rich states to poor ones. This by itself doesn't seem too bad until you see the problems these "rich" states have with employing their poor. Newark and Bridgeport exist in the richest states for a reason. I think this tends to funnel too much money to poor states in an inefficient manner while not providing enough to the rich states.
There is also the matter of things like tax incentives for companies. As I have argued before this just undermines the tax authority of states and puts too much power in the hands of the state government to pick winners and losers. There is a need for them to invest in infrastructure but even that is partially addressed at the federal level.
States are also generally better at being the funding mechanism for schools than the local level or the federal level.
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Tych2
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
He wants you to join him in a blood-soaked rampage against people he doesn't like because he thinks that will further the aims of freedom.
 Yeah that's going to happen.
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Kjarhall
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Brother_Tempus posted:
AzureTyger posted:
the_great_intex posted:
No. Not fiscally. I think fiscally wise micromanaging should be done at the state level. Now whether that happens in the federal government or the state government is another question. But there's a LOT of negatives to trying to fix problems with a broad sword
I think a great deal of laws should not be allowed -- and I personally think it is unconstitutional for the federal government to have the power -- to be passed at the federal level.
A lot of things about our 18th century constitution are stupid and sucky in a modern context,
Only if you are a believer of tyranny ... the Constitutional Republic and its message of freedom is one of the newest political frameworks in the world today.
You do know that changes can be made without changing those 2 basic messages? Jeebus, a first grader would know that.
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Aerlinthian
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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If centralized power is so good then why worry if someone like Santorum gets elected.
Idiots.
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Brother_Tempus
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Kjarhall posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
AzureTyger posted:
[quote=the_great_intex]No. Not fiscally. I think fiscally wise micromanaging should be done at the state level. Now whether that happens in the federal government or the state government is another question. But there's a LOT of negatives to trying to fix problems with a broad sword
I think a great deal of laws should not be allowed -- and I personally think it is unconstitutional for the federal government to have the power -- to be passed at the federal level.
A lot of things about our 18th century constitution are stupid and sucky in a modern context,
Only if you are a believer of tyranny ... the Constitutional Republic and its message of freedom is one of the newest political frameworks in the world today.
You do know that changes can be made without changing those 2 basic messages?[/quote]
Only by going in the opposite direction the US has been heading the last 80 years
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Tych2
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Aerlinthian posted:
If centralized power is so good then why worry if someone like Santorum gets elected.
Because we don't like him.
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MatrexMistwalker
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So what do you have in place of states?
Federal apointees over districts?
Whats the difference... at least with states most people still pay attention to whats happening in thier back yard.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Actually I think it is probably getting to the point that districts make more sense than federal government.
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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http://www.snpp.com/guides/springfield.list.html
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Aerlinthian posted:
If centralized power is so good then why worry if someone like Santorum gets elected.
Idiots.
One way to look at it: if there were no states then Santorum would have won zero states this primary season instead of the four or five he's won so far 
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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AT posted:
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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AzureTyger posted:
Who really benefits from an arrangement where autonomous states are in direct or indirect competition with each other? The states need to exist to support bureaucracies, but as individual legal and economic regions, the entire idea is counterproductive and outdated.
Sweet mother of god I can't wait until someone expresses this thought at the national level!
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Crackdoc
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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OTOH, what is your 'Federal' government but a group of elected reps from your states?
Are they so whacko they cannot understand the various demographic and goegraphic and economic variances within your vast country.
Perhaps the answer is LESS Fed and MORE state - hmmmm?
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Tych2 posted:
armoredgimp posted:
[quote=Tych2]No and I hope they never do.
It may just be time to refresh that tree of liberty
Meaning? I am not a state's right guy.
He wants you to join him in a blood-soaked rampage against people he doesn't like because he thinks that will further the aims of freedom.
[/quote]
i will call to arms when Obama runs for his third term.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/04/president-obamas-top-10-constitutional-violations/1/
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Thugoneous
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Has the notion of states outlived its usefulness in America?
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Individuals states are more useful now than ever.
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