Author Topic: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Blue_arrow 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
http://www.thehour.com/story/521005/obama-fuel-efficient-cars-an-answer-to-gas-prices





In his weekly radio and online address Saturday, Obama said Detroit automakers are on track to build cars that average nearly 55 miles per gallon by 2025, doubling current mileage standards.

"That means folks will be able to fill up every two weeks instead of every week, saving the typical family more than $8,000 at the pump over time," he said. "That's a big deal, especially as families are yet again feeling the pinch from rising gas prices."





laugh whos families are you going to fit in a car that get 55 miles per gallon, Obama's Own wife cant get her big ass in one of them cars ..its a F tuna can ...and this crazy basterd is going to trun all are food in to Biofuel to cut the fuel price laugh

 

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Tych2 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
55 miles a gallon is a great goal and the First Lady is really pretty. I think you need your eyes examined.

 

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Thugoneous 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Everything I've heard about the First Lady is positive.

 

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Bobvillas 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Blue_arrow posted:


laugh whos families are you going to fit in a car that get 55 miles per gallon, Obama's Own wife cant get her big ass in one of them cars ..its a F tuna can ...and this crazy basterd is going to trun all are food in to Biofuel to cut the fuel price laugh



Seriously, can you at least attempt to look over what you type before posting it.

I kinda like your threads.

They are a fun change of pace, but it is so hard to read the portions that you don't copy and paste.

Is English your first language?

Serious question.

 

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MatrexMistwalker 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
If your going to gripe about it have a valid reason..

So I have to go 40+ thousand in debt to save a few bucks a week on gas... that math doesnt work for me.

When Hybrid prices are a little more stable and realistic sure Ill get one till then money wise, keeping my truck is the better answer.

 

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paulg_68 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
There is absolutely no viable plan in any quarter that will get us to an average of 55mpg by 2025.

coffee

 

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reesescups 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Fuel efficiency is the answer to high gas prices.


Couple years ago I had to replace my SUV. I did my research and I replaced my SUV with a trail rated jeep that gets double the gas mileage of my previous jeep.

I can't tow with it - but other than that, it's capable of doing all the off-roading I was doing with my previous jeep and I spend half as much on gas. Oh and the vehicle was less than 20k out the door.


I am super duper awesome!!!




 

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Eager_Igraine 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
No idea what Obama is talking about, but I know my Prius was about 20k, fits four full sized adults comfortably and knocks down over 50mpg on the highway. And its four years old. I think they've gotten more efficient since then.

 

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Hammerhand21 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
I am sorry the OP is too fat to fit into cars that aren't Chevy Suburbans

 

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paulg_68 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
People are never going to give up their giant SUVs. They'll send the entire Democratic party packing before they'll do that.

coffee

 

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reesescups 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Nobody is suggesting or demanding people give up their 8MPG pimp mobiles. But it your vehicle gets 8MPG and you are bitching about the price of gas - you are a effing moron!

 

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SoBaKi 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Blue_arrow posted:http://www.thehour.com/story/521005/obama-fuel-efficient-cars-an-answer-to-gas-prices





In his weekly radio and online address Saturday, Obama said Detroit automakers are on track to build cars that average nearly 55 miles per gallon by 2025, doubling current mileage standards.

"That means folks will be able to fill up every two weeks instead of every week, saving the typical family more than $8,000 at the pump over time," he said. "That's a big deal, especially as families are yet again feeling the pinch from rising gas prices."





laugh whos families are you going to fit in a car that get 55 miles per gallon, Obama's Own wife cant get her big ass in one of them cars ..its a F tuna can ...and this crazy basterd is going to trun all are food in to Biofuel to cut the fuel price laugh



You're one of the dumbest assclowns to have ever visited the Outpost. Grats.

 

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Mastara 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
still with my gas guzzling v6 with super charger happy its almost paid off anyway. Besides these cars are going to be ridiculously expensive

 

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Bonzoboy1 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Gas prices + company credit card = drive any gas guzzler I want, not to say I wouldn't mind getting better gas mileage as long as the vehicle size and towing weight stays the same.

 

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Scarne 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
paulg_68 posted:
People are never going to give up their giant SUVs. They'll send the entire Democratic party packing before they'll do that.

coffee

Cars averaging 55 mpg has nothing to do with SUVs. grin

 

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Mastara 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Yeah i get to take my work van home sometimes. But even if I dont, 50 bucks is not much to fill the tank. I never let it drop below 1/4 tank anyway. 40 miles a day, 4 days a week. Not too bad.

 

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Modeeb 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
The government has been subsidizing vehicles which way more than 6000 pounds through tax breaks forever. I feel sorry for people who own those suckers. They cant drive to the store and back for under $5.00. That adds up

 

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Elkad 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Cars could get 55mpg today if they would roll back smog and crash standards to 1980 levels.

An 86 Fiesta gets 40mpg. A new one with the new 1.0L ecoboost has nearly double the power and is moving 50% more weight. Despite that it gets 50mpg. I didn't even consider the CRX-HF, or tiny euro cars.

Want mileage? Get the weight back down. Let engines make a bit of NOx in lean-burn cruising mode. Stop mandating hoods be taller. Stop mandating hundreds of pounds of extra safety equipment.

We've got the tech. Direct Injection, Turbos, and other things have massively improved engine efficiency. Stop leeching that efficiency away with add-ons.

 

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paulg_68 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Scarne posted:
paulg_68 posted:
People are never going to give up their giant SUVs. They'll send the entire Democratic party packing before they'll do that.

coffee

Cars averaging 55 mpg has nothing to do with SUVs. grin

It most certainly does. For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.

coffee

 

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Fat_wong 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Elkad posted:
Cars could get 55mpg today if they would roll back smog and crash standards to 1980 levels.

An 86 Fiesta gets 40mpg. A new one with the new 1.0L ecoboost has nearly double the power and is moving 50% more weight. Despite that it gets 50mpg. I didn't even consider the CRX-HF, or tiny euro cars.

Want mileage? Get the weight back down. Let engines make a bit of NOx in lean-burn cruising mode. Stop mandating hoods be taller. Stop mandating hundreds of pounds of extra safety equipment.

We've got the tech. Direct Injection, Turbos, and other things have massively improved engine efficiency. Stop leeching that efficiency away with add-ons.
rolling_eyes

 

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Groucho48 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
More fuel efficient cars have already cut consumption of gas in this country by a noticeable amount. I read somewhere that we are driving more miles but using less gas than we were, I think, 15 years ago. The economic collapse is a factor, but, even extrapolating a good economy, we would be using less gas.


 

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Scarne 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
paulg_68 posted:
It most certainly does. For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.

coffee

SUVs are trucks, not cars. They don't factor into the average mpg for cars. coffee grin

 

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Aerlinthian 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
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DemonicXH 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
What's the average price of a hybrid car nowadays?

It's a lofty goal to get the majority of Americans driving hybrid vehicles. The average American can't afford a 30k car.

 

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Bonzoboy1 
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How can I tow a 6500 lbs trailer with a Fiesta?

 

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BubbleDude 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
paulg_68 posted:
For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.


That would average out at 80 mpg.

The three other cars would need to get 60 mpg.

nerd

 

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Snarf_Igraine 
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We have tons of leg room in the prius, get near 50mpg and all five us fit in it easily. Lose some weight America!

 

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BubbleDude 
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Snarf_Igraine posted:
prius


Why am I completely not surprised?

 

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Snarf_Igraine 
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You shouldn't be surprised by my penchant for value, affordability, and environmental awareness! Plus I make it look sexy.

 

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Aerlinthian 
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
How can I tow a 6500 lbs trailer with a Fiesta?
Don't worry, the collectivists have a plan for that. You won't be able to afford the trailer.

 

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paulg_68 
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BubbleDude posted:
paulg_68 posted:
For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.


That would average out at 80 mpg.

The three other cars would need to get 60 mpg.

nerd

I'm guessing math isn't your subject.

4 cars travel 100 miles each. If the average MPG is 50, then 8 gallons of gas total will be used. If one car gets 20mpg then it will have consumed 5 gallons of gas. That means the other three cars must each travel 100 miles using only 1 gallon of gas each.

nerd

(Edit: In case you're feeling particularly dense, I'll spell it out for you. MPG stands for miles per gallon. 8 gallons consumed. 400 miles traveled. That's 50 miles per gallon.)

 

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reesescups 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Groucho48 posted:
More fuel efficient cars have already cut consumption of gas in this country by a noticeable amount. I read somewhere that we are driving more miles but using less gas than we were, I think, 15 years ago. The economic collapse is a factor, but, even extrapolating a good economy, we would be using less gas.



Not to kick a dead horse

but after that whole Obama tire gauge incident consumption dropped like a mofo almost over night...



maintain your vehicles you effing slackers!!!

 

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paulg_68 
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Scarne posted:
paulg_68 posted:
It most certainly does. For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.

coffee

SUVs are trucks, not cars. They don't factor into the average mpg for cars. coffee grin


article that pwns Scarne in the face posted:
President Obama today announced a historic agreement with thirteen major automakers to pursue the next phase in the Administration's national vehicle program, increasing fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon for cars and light-duty trucks by Model Year 2025.

http://www.enn.com/energy/article/43006

coffee

 

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reesescups 
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paulg_68 posted:
If one car gets 20mpg then it will have consumed 5 gallons of gas. That means the other three cars must each travel 100 miles using only 1 gallon of gas each.

nerd
Which would average to 80 MPG...

nerd

 

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paulg_68 posted:
BubbleDude posted:
paulg_68 posted:
For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.


That would average out at 80 mpg.

The three other cars would need to get 60 mpg.

nerd

I'm guessing math isn't your subject.

4 cars travel 100 miles each. If the average MPG is 50, then 8 gallons of gas total will be used. If one car gets 20mpg then it will have consumed 5 gallons of gas. That means the other three cars must each travel 100 miles using only 1 gallon of gas each.

nerd

(Edit: In case you're feeling particularly dense, I'll spell it out for you. MPG stands for miles per gallon. 8 gallons consumed. 400 miles traveled. That's 50 miles per gallon.)


4 cars get one gallon of gas each. Three of them each get 100 miles before they run dry. The fourth gets 20 miles and runs dry.

So, they get a total of 320 miles on 4 gallons of gas. Or, an average of 80 miles per gallon.

<edit>Added

If you have one car that gets 20 mpg, it's pretty trivial to figure out what other cars have to average to bring the overall average up to 50. They have a deficit of 30 mpg to make up. Assuming three other cars, each would have to get 10 mpg more than 50 mpg to average out to 50.

You DO know how to figure an average don't you? To use small words...add up all the numbers and divide by how many numbers you used. In your example, it would be 100 + 100 + 100 + 20 = 320/4 = 80.

 

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paulg_68 
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You are assuming the guy with a car that gets 20mpg drives a tiny fraction as much as the other guys. He doesn't. He drives the same.

Miles per gallon is calculated by dividing the number of miles traveled by the number of gallons consumed. You can only get to 80 if you pretend the one guy only drove 1/5 as much as everyone else.

400 miles traveled divided by 8 gallons consumed = 50 miles per gallon

QED.

nerd

 

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reesescups posted:
Nobody is suggesting or demanding people give up their 8MPG pimp mobiles. But it your vehicle gets 8MPG and you are bitching about the price of gas - you are a effing moron!


So the one bitching about the price of gas should be the person driving an electric vehicle?

Seems like the perfect candidate to complain is the one in the 8mgp vehicle.

 

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reesescups 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
paulg_68 posted:
You are assuming the guy with a car that gets 20mpg drives a tiny fraction as much as the other guys. He doesn't. He drives the same.

Miles per gallon is calculated by dividing the number of miles traveled by the number of gallons consumed. You can only get to 80 if you pretend the one guy only drove 1/5 as much as everyone else.

400 miles traveled divided by 8 gallons consumed = 50 miles per gallon

QED.

nerd
What does anything you just barfed up have to do with quantum electro dynamics?

 

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I don't see any reason not to complain. Petrol is a limited resource and the first responsibility when dealing with a limited resource is to make sure it is being used in the most efficient way possible. People who drive gas guzzlers, IMO, are committing crimes against nature and not only that -- but they're retarded.

Many of you guys would be considered too unethical to be a professional engineer.

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
eodoll posted:
reesescups posted:
Nobody is suggesting or demanding people give up their 8MPG pimp mobiles. But it your vehicle gets 8MPG and you are bitching about the price of gas - you are a effing moron!


So the one bitching about the price of gas should be the person driving an electric vehicle?

Seems like the perfect candidate to complain is the one in the 8mgp vehicle.
How many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

 

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eodoll 
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I'm sure it was a few times.

 

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you know you're a Republican when you claim to be for fiscal sanity and self-sufficiency but advocate a permanent dependency on gulf states in lieu of supporting American tech companies and auto makers.

 

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Groucho48 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
paulg_68 posted:
You are assuming the guy with a car that gets 20mpg drives a tiny fraction as much as the other guys. He doesn't. He drives the same.

Miles per gallon is calculated by dividing the number of miles traveled by the number of gallons consumed. You can only get to 80 if you pretend the one guy only drove 1/5 as much as everyone else.

400 miles traveled divided by 8 gallons consumed = 50 miles per gallon

QED.

nerd


<edit> Whoops. Thought I had a sensible rejoinder, but, I don't. Except that your method using different quantities to calculate an average. It doesn't work that way.

 

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Kordirn 
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I see no problem with pushing fuel efficient cars. For one it lessons our dependence on foreign oil. There are plenty of people that drive gas guzzlers that could make do without if they wanted to. Not sure why so many of you see this as a negative thing.

I have rode in the back of a prius before, and it seemed to have as much room as my subaru does.

 

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paulg_68 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Groucho48 posted:
Except that your method using different quantities to calculate an average. It doesn't work that way.


You're stuck on the assumption that you're correct and you're missing what would be perfectly obvious to anyone who didn't already commit himself to the wrong answer.

Go to another forum and pose this question exactly as phrased: "4 cars drive a total of 400 miles and they consume 8 gallons of gas in doing so. What is the average MPG for the 4 cars?"

If anyone answers 80 you can pick my icon for a week.

coffee

 

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Obviously paulg already committed himself to the wrong answer so he has to semantic his way out of it and switch it up a bit...


SHOCKED!

 

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silvadel 
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Show us what you look like when you get into a crash in one of those cars. The better the gas milage the more dangerous the car as it is mostly a weight thing.

That said I am waiting for Michelle Obama to make the statement that if everyone lost 50 pounds they would get better mileage in their vehicles.

 

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Groucho48 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
paulg_68 posted:
Groucho48 posted:
Except that your method using different quantities to calculate an average. It doesn't work that way.


You're stuck on the assumption that you're correct and you're missing what would be perfectly obvious to anyone who didn't already commit himself to the wrong answer.

Go to another forum and pose this question exactly as phrased: "4 cars drive a total of 400 miles and they consume 8 gallons of gas in doing so. What is the average MPG for the 4 cars?"

If anyone answers 80 you can pick my icon for a week.

coffee


To figure out miles per gallon, each car has to use the same amount of gas and then you find the average number of miles they get for that gallon. In you example, car A contributes 5 gallons to the average while cars B, C, and D only contribute one gallon each. That skews the average way off.

mpg = (A+B+C+D)/4, where we know mpg is 50, A=20, and B=C=D.

So 50 = (20+3B)/4

200 = 20+3B
180 = 3B
60 = B=C=D

You are making the mileage fixed and the gallons are the variable. When you want to find mpg, you have to keep the gallons fixed and the miles are the variable.

Think about it. If we leave everything the same, except we bump Car A up to 25 mpg, that would, using your method, bring the average up to around 57 mpg. Bumping one car up 5 mpg raises the average by 7 mpg? You want to go with that? Let's lower Car A to 10 mpg. That would work out to an average of about 31 mpg. So, lowering one car's mpg by 10 lowers the average of the 4 cars by almost 20?

Using the actual formula for finding an average, we'd get, with A = 25, and the other cars staying at 60, the average would be a realistic 51 mpg. If we lower A to 10 mpg, we'd lower the average to about 47+ mpg.

If you pose the problem this way...we need to end up with an average of 50 and one of the 4 components is 20 and the other three are all equal to each other, what number gives you that average? I'd be happy to do a icon bet. Though, you might want to change the conditions. I think you WANT people to say 80. Whereas, I want people to say 60.

To make it simple enough for even you not to obfuscate your way out. Take two cars, our 20 mpg car and a 100 mpg car. They each go 100 miles. They use a total of 6 gallons. Are you claiming that those two cars average out to 33.3 mpg? The auto companies better pray that you never get put in charge of compliance.










 

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RHWarrior 
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Stangely enough in Europe we can design and manufacture cars (yes even hybrid cars) that have better and better MPG every year!

Of course if you're a total idiot and can't even imagine technical progress cause you think a car can't perform with less than 500 HP and drinking a gallon per mile, then yeah, you're going to find it hard to wrap your head around ideas like this.

peace

 

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No need to get fancy for good mpg..

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Bonzoboy1 posted:
How can I tow a 6500 lbs trailer with a Fiesta?


You can't. But the equivalent motor in a 2500lb small truck (like my '80 Toyota) will pull it. Yeah, you'd do 45mph up the hills. Go up to the 1.6L ecoboost and it should maintain highway speeds. And get great mileage when not towing.

My Toyota has maybe 75hp left. It's hauled some crazy loads over big hills. 10,000lbs combined load (truck+trailer) from coast to coast and averaged 20mpg for the trip.

It's gotten 8,500lbs (car hauler with a full size truck on it) over a mile of 11%, but it was mighty hot at the end. 4800rpm (power peak) in first the whole way. If I'd had to stop for any reason, I would have had to back all the way down and start over, no way could I have pulled out on that hill.

A 200hp turbo 4 would do just fine. Especially if you aren't hauling an extra 2000lbs of truck you don't need.

 

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Blue_arrow posted:
Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices


Uh, yeah it is AN answer. Keep trying, eventually you'll post something that doesn't make you look dumb.


 

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Leave it up to Paul to argue semantics of math!

paulg_68 posted:
1+1 does equal 3. Nowhere in my argument did I state that one of the 1's wasn't added together twice!!!

 

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BubbleDude posted:
paulg_68 posted:
For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.


That would average out at 80 mpg.

The three other cars would need to get 60 mpg.

nerd




Math is not really Paul's strong suit.

 

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paulg_68 
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You tell me Yuki: 4 cars travel a total of 400 miles and consume a total of 8 gallons of gas. What is the average mpg for the 4 cars?

@Groucho: Cars with better and worse gas mileage do not consume exactly the same amounts of gas. If they did, we wouldn't care about gas mileage.

coffee

 

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God bless Paulg - such persistence...


laugh

 

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It actually looks more like a thinking problem than a math problem.

 

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paulg_68 
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So you couldn't calculate it?

I thought you were Asian.



thinking

 

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Like I said, it's not a problem of calculation. You're looking at something besides average MPG.

If you have two cars with an average MPG of 50 between them that doesn't mean they'll always use the same amount of gas no matter what the distribution is. I.e. two cars that each get 50 MPG use a lot less gas than one car that gets 10 MPG and one car that gets 90 MPG.

You're trying to use a distributional argument to argue an average isn't an average. Which is stupid. It's still an average.

 

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The car manufacturers care about whichever method the government uses to calculate average mpg, not whatever one is more mathematically "correct". grin

 

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The way I'm calculating "average MPG" is actually useful whereas the way you're calculating it isn't because it tells us exactly nothing.

Why are you insisting on calculating it in a way that tells us nothing? The way you're calculating it we could hit an average of 55mpg and be using more gas per mile traveled than we are today.

coffee

 

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What you're calculating isn't average MPG. It's average gas consumption per vehicle.

If you want to argue yours is a better measure go for it. But that doesn't make it something it isn't.

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
paulg_68 posted:
You tell me Yuki: 4 cars travel a total of 400 miles and consume a total of 8 gallons of gas. What is the average mpg for the 4 cars?

@Groucho: Cars with better and worse gas mileage do not consume exactly the same amounts of gas. If they did, we wouldn't care about gas mileage.

coffee


laugh Yer doin it wrong.

 

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Yukishiro1 posted:
What you're calculating isn't average MPG. It's average gas consumption per vehicle.

No I'm calculating average miles per gallon.

The calculation for miles per gallon is: (miles traveled / gallons used = MPG)

Your calculation ignores miles traveled which makes it entirely pointless.

coffee

 

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reesescups posted:
Fuel efficiency is the answer to high gas prices.


Couple years ago I had to replace my SUV. I did my research and I replaced my SUV with a trail rated jeep that gets double the gas mileage of my previous jeep.

I can't tow with it - but other than that, it's capable of doing all the off-roading I was doing with my previous jeep and I spend half as much on gas. Oh and the vehicle was less than 20k out the door.


I am super duper awesome!!!







You got a Liberty didnt you? Its the only Jeep that gets even decent gas mileage
My 2005 Wrangler gets 19mpg HWY and I have after market intake and exhaust to improve over factory.
Gas Mileage sucks in Jeeps no matter what you do.

I wish to god someone would make a diesel engine for Jeeps that doesnt require a major refit and all new drive system so I could go Bio

On a side note, you can tow with a short wheel based Jeep. Just tow less than 1200lbs or have a breaking system on the trailer.

 

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rofl at paulg.

he must be this one commenter on my local news site.

he thought that obama was ripping us off because we're now paying 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon rather than for a full gallon. so he said the effective fuel price was 4.43/gal

 

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Akza posted:
he thought that obama was ripping us off because we're now paying 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon rather than for a full gallon. so he said the effective fuel price was 4.43/gal

And what do you think the price is per gallon if you pay 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon?

thinking

 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards

thinking

 

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paulg_68 posted:
Akza posted:
he thought that obama was ripping us off because we're now paying 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon rather than for a full gallon. so he said the effective fuel price was 4.43/gal

And what do you think the price is per gallon if you pay 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon?

thinking


[notsureifserious.jpg]

 

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/serious

coffee

 

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paulg_68 posted:
Akza posted:
he thought that obama was ripping us off because we're now paying 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon rather than for a full gallon. so he said the effective fuel price was 4.43/gal

And what do you think the price is per gallon if you pay 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon?

thinking

Who cares when the price on the sign is 3.999 per gallon, not 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon? grin

 

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He thought the 9/10 part of the price on the signs was for getting 9/10th of a gallon....

It simply means 3.999 ... not 4.43

 

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Sin_of_Onin posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards

thinking

Thanks!

/bow

coffee

 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_mean

Wiki posted:
In mathematics, the harmonic mean (sometimes called the subcontrary mean) is one of several kinds of average. Typically, it is appropriate for situations when the average of rates is desired.


The 5th grade math some of you guys were trying to use is appropriate for a lot of things but not for calculating the average of a rate. For that you need to use the college level stuff.

coffee

 

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Holy crap, Paul was actually (kinda) right about something in spite of himself. They do use a harmonic mean for the CAFE standards. applause

 

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from this regular gas: $0.63

http://www.stationwagon.com/gallery/pictures/1978_Ford_Country_Squire.jpg


to this regular gas $3.82

http://www.rpmgo.com/cars/d/3475-3/2008_ford_focus_station_wagon_facelift03.jpg


and gas as nothing but went up, Obama wants Fuel-efficient cars that average nearly 55 miles ....looks like gas will average 7 to 9.00 bucks for that Fuel-efficient 55MPG


so who's winning ? laugh

 

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Wut? That is even more incomprehensible than your usual posts.

 

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I drive a 2008 Ford Focus. It is a base care with a standard transmission. I average 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways. I calculate my MPG per tank with two methods. 1) with a ScanGauge II and 2) with a pen and paper and they are always within .4 mpg of each other. I paid $12,400 for the car in '08. It is more cost effective than any Prius because it takes A LOT of gas to make up the nearly 10k in price difference.

Yes, I have a small car, but I only have to fill the tank once a month or so these days.

Maybe what Obama needs to do is look at why we don't have some fuel efficient cars available to us in the US, like:

http://gas2.org/2011/04/06/the-67-mpg-diesel-focus-econetic-the-u-s-can%E2%80%99t-have/

 

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Kamdar 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Szerek posted:
I drive a 2008 Ford Focus. It is a base care with a standard transmission. I average 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways. I calculate my MPG per tank with two methods. 1) with a ScanGauge II and 2) with a pen and paper and they are always within .4 mpg of each other. I paid $12,400 for the car in '08. It is more cost effective than any Prius because it takes A LOT of gas to make up the nearly 10k in price difference.

Yes, I have a small car, but I only have to fill the tank once a month or so these days.

Maybe what Obama needs to do is look at why we don't have some fuel efficient cars available to us in the US, like:

http://gas2.org/2011/04/06/the-67-mpg-diesel-focus-econetic-the-u-s-can%E2%80%99t-have/


bah..my 2012 Focus only gets 34mpg in town. I must be accelerating too quickly.

 

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Blue_arrow 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Szerek posted:
I drive a 2008 Ford Focus. It is a base care with a standard transmission. I average 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways. I calculate my MPG per tank with two methods. 1) with a ScanGauge II and 2) with a pen and paper and they are always within .4 mpg of each other. I paid $12,400 for the car in '08. It is more cost effective than any Prius because it takes A LOT of gas to make up the nearly 10k in price difference.

Yes, I have a small car, but I only have to fill the tank once a month or so these days.

Maybe what Obama needs to do is look at why we don't have some fuel efficient cars available to us in the US, like:

http://gas2.org/2011/04/06/the-67-mpg-diesel-focus-econetic-the-u-s-can%E2%80%99t-have/






really ? 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways


http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/24824.shtml
2008 Ford Focus

4 cyl, 2.0 L
Manual 5-spd
Regular Gasoline

24
City

35
Highway


 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
How you actually drive the vehicle has an impact on your mileage.

/hth

 

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Szerek 
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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Blue_arrow posted:
Szerek posted:
I drive a 2008 Ford Focus. It is a base care with a standard transmission. I average 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways. I calculate my MPG per tank with two methods. 1) with a ScanGauge II and 2) with a pen and paper and they are always within .4 mpg of each other. I paid $12,400 for the car in '08. It is more cost effective than any Prius because it takes A LOT of gas to make up the nearly 10k in price difference.

Yes, I have a small car, but I only have to fill the tank once a month or so these days.

Maybe what Obama needs to do is look at why we don't have some fuel efficient cars available to us in the US, like:

http://gas2.org/2011/04/06/the-67-mpg-diesel-focus-econetic-the-u-s-can%E2%80%99t-have/






really ? 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways


http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/24824.shtml
2008 Ford Focus

4 cyl, 2.0 L
Manual 5-spd
Regular Gasoline

24
City

35
Highway





Yeah, really. You can really alter you MPG by learning how to drive to conserve fuel. For example, you can increase fuel mileage by about 10% by running your tires at max sidewall air pressure rather than what the manufacturer suggests for comfort. Not only will that save you on gas, it will give you longer life on your tires as well.

http://ecomodder.com/

Also google hypermiling techniques

My best fuel milage was coming home from my parents house last summer. It is a 36 mile trip and I managed 68.4 mpg in my focus on that trip.

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Mangler_X posted:
reesescups posted:
Fuel efficiency is the answer to high gas prices.


Couple years ago I had to replace my SUV. I did my research and I replaced my SUV with a trail rated jeep that gets double the gas mileage of my previous jeep.

I can't tow with it - but other than that, it's capable of doing all the off-roading I was doing with my previous jeep and I spend half as much on gas. Oh and the vehicle was less than 20k out the door.


I am super duper awesome!!!







You got a Liberty didnt you? Its the only Jeep that gets even decent gas mileage
My 2005 Wrangler gets 19mpg HWY and I have after market intake and exhaust to improve over factory.
Gas Mileage sucks in Jeeps no matter what you do.

I wish to god someone would make a diesel engine for Jeeps that doesnt require a major refit and all new drive system so I could go Bio

On a side note, you can tow with a short wheel based Jeep. Just tow less than 1200lbs or have a breaking system on the trailer.
Nope went with the Patriot stock with all the off-road upgrades. I'm such a cheap bastard I even have manual doors and locks... Then again by 'trade' I am a Failure Analysis Engineer and I know auto locks and windows are some of the first things to break down in a off-road vehicle...

/shrug

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
paulg_68 posted:
/serious

coffee
Yeah - we know...


Which just makes it all the more entertaining...

laugh

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Eager_Igraine posted:
How you actually drive the vehicle has an impact on your mileage.

/hth

Yep, maintenance and driving habits - you can see huge improvements in MPG just by maintaining your vehicle and not being a raging douche behind the wheel!

flag

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Paulg was talking about mpg but was really interested in gpm. I'll agree that, for all sorts of purposes, gpm is the more useful figure, but, that is not what his first statement said.

"For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg."


Now, if the statement had been set up..."A car that gets 20 mpg travels 100 miles. How many mpgs would three other cars need to average, over 100 miles, to bring the overall average up to 50 mpg", he would be correct.

In a discussion of the harmonic mean, I saw this...

Problem 1

A fellow travels from city A to city B. For the first hour, he drove at the constant speed of 20 miles per hour. Then he (instantaneously) increased his speed and, for the next hour, kept it at 30 miles per hour. Find the average speed of the motion.


Problem 2

A fellow travels from city A to city B. The first half of the way, he drove at the constant speed of 20 miles per hour. Then he (instantaneously) increased his speed and traveled the remaining distance at 30 miles per hour. Find the average speed of the motion.



In problem 1, the arithmetic mean works. In problem 2, the harmonic mean works. Paulg's statement was of the Problem 1 kind but he treated it as though it were of the Problem 2 kind.



 

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Groucho48 posted:
Paulg's statement was of the Problem 1 kind but he treated it as though it were of the Problem 2 kind.




It's called failing at semantics


less words, more posts for you!

 

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Sin_of_Onin 
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From what I can tell from the context of the quote Obama is referencing the way the government calculates the number for fleet standards. ie my link

/shrug

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Give it up Groucho. At least Yuki is getting out of this thread with some dignity.

Yukishiro1 posted:
Holy crap, Paul was actually (kinda) right about something in spite of himself. They do use a harmonic mean for the CAFE standards. applause


In case you didn't realize it (and obviously you don't) there are actually several different mathematically valid ways to determine an average. In each specific case you use the method that makes the most sense. You're stuck on the method you learned in 5th grade. You seem to think it is the universally correct answer for all occasions. It is not. In fact it's entirely useless in this context.

If we calculated the average your way we could dramatically decrease our overall fuel efficiency and still hit the 54.5mpg target. What would be the point of that?

coffee

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Sin_of_Onin posted:
From what I can tell from the context of the quote Obama is referencing the way the government calculates the number for fleet standards. ie my link

/shrug





Your link was fine. In the overall picture, the harmonic average is probably the more useful. Paulg is right in that what we really need to know is how much gas we will use in actually driving a bunch of miles. If I had been in his place, I might have used his example to back up his original assertion, too. But, then, when folks called me on it, I would have agreed that my first statement was poorly worded and that things were really more complicated than that.





 

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Someone just got massively pwnt. (Not you Groucho) I bet he won't even realize it.

laugh

 

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Groucho48 posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
From what I can tell from the context of the quote Obama is referencing the way the government calculates the number for fleet standards. ie my link

/shrug





Your link was fine. In the overall picture, the harmonic average is probably the more useful. Paulg is right in that what we really need to know is how much gas we will use in actually driving a bunch of miles. If I had been in his place, I might have used his example to back up his original assertion, too. But, then, when folks called me on it, I would have agreed that my first statement was poorly worded and that things were really more complicated than that.






The first rule of arguing semantics is to never admit your an idiot. Don't argue semantics with Paulg - just laugh at him and mock him.


peace

 

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/bow again

coffee

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
Groucho48 posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
From what I can tell from the context of the quote Obama is referencing the way the government calculates the number for fleet standards. ie my link

/shrug





Your link was fine. In the overall picture, the harmonic average is probably the more useful. Paulg is right in that what we really need to know is how much gas we will use in actually driving a bunch of miles. If I had been in his place, I might have used his example to back up his original assertion, too. But, then, when folks called me on it, I would have agreed that my first statement was poorly worded and that things were really more complicated than that.








I wouldn't worry too much about your mistake, as my link also shows the math used to calculate the "average" is not exactly intuitive.

 

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paulg_68 posted:
/bow again

coffee
Indeed you should take a bow - you are the master of semantic arguments. You have mastered it so well that you start off saying one thing and then swap it up and pretend like you were saying something else just to bait people into biting on your semantic.


It's masterful - but you are still an idiot, oh and completely wrong.

 

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If Groucho was a woman...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhm7-LEBznk

coffee

 

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Subject: Obama: Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices
paulg_68 posted:

In case you didn't realize it (and obviously you don't) there are actually several different mathematically valid ways to determine an average.


Well that's getting into semantics and I'm not sure there's much point but FWIW when I was taught math we were taught that "average" means mathematical mean and that other measurements shouldn't be called averages, because the usage of "average" in common speech is so clearly connected to the mathematical mean and not the other measures.

 

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You should tell Obama because he meant it the way I calculated it.

coffee

 

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