Blue_arrow posted:

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whos families are you going to fit in a car that get 55 miles per gallon, Obama's Own wife cant get her big ass in one of them cars ..its a F tuna can ...and this crazy basterd is going to trun all are food in to Biofuel to cut the fuel price

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Blue_arrow posted:

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http://www.thehour.com/story/521005/obama-fuel-efficient-cars-an-answer-to-gas-prices





In his weekly radio and online address Saturday, Obama said Detroit automakers are on track to build cars that average nearly 55 miles per gallon by 2025, doubling current mileage standards.

"That means folks will be able to fill up every two weeks instead of every week, saving the typical family more than $8,000 at the pump over time," he said. "That's a big deal, especially as families are yet again feeling the pinch from rising gas prices."





whos families are you going to fit in a car that get 55 miles per gallon, Obama's Own wife cant get her big ass in one of them cars ..its a F tuna can ...and this crazy basterd is going to trun all are food in to Biofuel to cut the fuel price

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paulg_68 posted:

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People are never going to give up their giant SUVs. They'll send the entire Democratic party packing before they'll do that.

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Scarne posted:

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paulg_68 posted:

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People are never going to give up their giant SUVs. They'll send the entire Democratic party packing before they'll do that.

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Cars averaging 55 mpg has nothing to do with SUVs.

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Elkad posted:

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Cars could get 55mpg today if they would roll back smog and crash standards to 1980 levels.

An 86 Fiesta gets 40mpg. A new one with the new 1.0L ecoboost has nearly double the power and is moving 50% more weight. Despite that it gets 50mpg. I didn't even consider the CRX-HF, or tiny euro cars.

Want mileage? Get the weight back down. Let engines make a bit of NOx in lean-burn cruising mode. Stop mandating hoods be taller. Stop mandating hundreds of pounds of extra safety equipment.

We've got the tech. Direct Injection, Turbos, and other things have massively improved engine efficiency. Stop leeching that efficiency away with add-ons.

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paulg_68 posted:

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It most certainly does. For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.

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paulg_68 posted:

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For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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prius

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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How can I tow a 6500 lbs trailer with a Fiesta?

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BubbleDude posted:

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paulg_68 posted:

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For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.

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That would average out at 80 mpg.

The three other cars would need to get 60 mpg.

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Groucho48 posted:

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More fuel efficient cars have already cut consumption of gas in this country by a noticeable amount. I read somewhere that we are driving more miles but using less gas than we were, I think, 15 years ago. The economic collapse is a factor, but, even extrapolating a good economy, we would be using less gas.

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Scarne posted:

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paulg_68 posted:

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It most certainly does. For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.

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SUVs are trucks, not cars. They don't factor into the average mpg for cars.

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article that pwns Scarne in the face posted:

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President Obama today announced a historic agreement with thirteen major automakers to pursue the next phase in the Administration's national vehicle program, increasing fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon for cars and light-duty trucks by Model Year 2025.

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paulg_68 posted:

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If one car gets 20mpg then it will have consumed 5 gallons of gas. That means the other three cars must each travel 100 miles using only 1 gallon of gas each.

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paulg_68 posted:

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BubbleDude posted:

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paulg_68 posted:

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For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.

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That would average out at 80 mpg.

The three other cars would need to get 60 mpg.

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I'm guessing math isn't your subject.

4 cars travel 100 miles each. If the average MPG is 50, then 8 gallons of gas total will be used. If one car gets 20mpg then it will have consumed 5 gallons of gas. That means the other three cars must each travel 100 miles using only 1 gallon of gas each.



(Edit: In case you're feeling particularly dense, I'll spell it out for you. MPG stands for miles per gallon. 8 gallons consumed. 400 miles traveled. That's 50 miles per gallon.)

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reesescups posted:

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Nobody is suggesting or demanding people give up their 8MPG pimp mobiles. But it your vehicle gets 8MPG and you are bitching about the price of gas - you are a effing moron!

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paulg_68 posted:

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You are assuming the guy with a car that gets 20mpg drives a tiny fraction as much as the other guys. He doesn't. He drives the same.

Miles per gallon is calculated by dividing the number of miles traveled by the number of gallons consumed. You can only get to 80 if you pretend the one guy only drove 1/5 as much as everyone else.

400 miles traveled divided by 8 gallons consumed = 50 miles per gallon

QED.

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eodoll posted:

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reesescups posted:

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Nobody is suggesting or demanding people give up their 8MPG pimp mobiles. But it your vehicle gets 8MPG and you are bitching about the price of gas - you are a effing moron!

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So the one bitching about the price of gas should be the person driving an electric vehicle?

Seems like the perfect candidate to complain is the one in the 8mgp vehicle.

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paulg_68 posted:

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You are assuming the guy with a car that gets 20mpg drives a tiny fraction as much as the other guys. He doesn't. He drives the same.

Miles per gallon is calculated by dividing the number of miles traveled by the number of gallons consumed. You can only get to 80 if you pretend the one guy only drove 1/5 as much as everyone else.

400 miles traveled divided by 8 gallons consumed = 50 miles per gallon

QED.

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Groucho48 posted:

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Except that your method using different quantities to calculate an average. It doesn't work that way.

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paulg_68 posted:

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Groucho48 posted:

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Except that your method using different quantities to calculate an average. It doesn't work that way.

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You're stuck on the assumption that you're correct and you're missing what would be perfectly obvious to anyone who didn't already commit himself to the wrong answer.

Go to another forum and pose this question exactly as phrased: "4 cars drive a total of 400 miles and they consume 8 gallons of gas in doing so. What is the average MPG for the 4 cars?"

If anyone answers 80 you can pick my icon for a week.

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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How can I tow a 6500 lbs trailer with a Fiesta?

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Blue_arrow posted:

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Fuel-efficient cars an answer to gas prices

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paulg_68 posted:

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1+1 does equal 3. Nowhere in my argument did I state that one of the 1's wasn't added together twice!!!

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BubbleDude posted:

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paulg_68 posted:

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For every vehicle that gets 20mpg you need 3 other cars that get 100 mpg in order to average out at 50 mpg.

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That would average out at 80 mpg.

The three other cars would need to get 60 mpg.

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paulg_68 posted:

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You tell me Yuki: 4 cars travel a total of 400 miles and consume a total of 8 gallons of gas. What is the average mpg for the 4 cars?

@Groucho: Cars with better and worse gas mileage do not consume exactly the same amounts of gas. If they did, we wouldn't care about gas mileage.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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What you're calculating isn't average MPG. It's average gas consumption per vehicle.

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reesescups posted:

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Fuel efficiency is the answer to high gas prices.


Couple years ago I had to replace my SUV. I did my research and I replaced my SUV with a trail rated jeep that gets double the gas mileage of my previous jeep.

I can't tow with it - but other than that, it's capable of doing all the off-roading I was doing with my previous jeep and I spend half as much on gas. Oh and the vehicle was less than 20k out the door.


I am super duper awesome!!!

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Akza posted:

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he thought that obama was ripping us off because we're now paying 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon rather than for a full gallon. so he said the effective fuel price was 4.43/gal

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paulg_68 posted:

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Akza posted:

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he thought that obama was ripping us off because we're now paying 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon rather than for a full gallon. so he said the effective fuel price was 4.43/gal

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And what do you think the price is per gallon if you pay 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon?

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paulg_68 posted:

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Akza posted:

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he thought that obama was ripping us off because we're now paying 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon rather than for a full gallon. so he said the effective fuel price was 4.43/gal

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And what do you think the price is per gallon if you pay 3.99 for 9/10ths of a gallon?

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards

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Wiki posted:

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In mathematics, the harmonic mean (sometimes called the subcontrary mean) is one of several kinds of average. Typically, it is appropriate for situations when the average of rates is desired.

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Szerek posted:

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I drive a 2008 Ford Focus. It is a base care with a standard transmission. I average 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways. I calculate my MPG per tank with two methods. 1) with a ScanGauge II and 2) with a pen and paper and they are always within .4 mpg of each other. I paid $12,400 for the car in '08. It is more cost effective than any Prius because it takes A LOT of gas to make up the nearly 10k in price difference.

Yes, I have a small car, but I only have to fill the tank once a month or so these days.

Maybe what Obama needs to do is look at why we don't have some fuel efficient cars available to us in the US, like:

http://gas2.org/2011/04/06/the-67-mpg-diesel-focus-econetic-the-u-s-can%E2%80%99t-have/

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Szerek posted:

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I drive a 2008 Ford Focus. It is a base care with a standard transmission. I average 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways. I calculate my MPG per tank with two methods. 1) with a ScanGauge II and 2) with a pen and paper and they are always within .4 mpg of each other. I paid $12,400 for the car in '08. It is more cost effective than any Prius because it takes A LOT of gas to make up the nearly 10k in price difference.

Yes, I have a small car, but I only have to fill the tank once a month or so these days.

Maybe what Obama needs to do is look at why we don't have some fuel efficient cars available to us in the US, like:

http://gas2.org/2011/04/06/the-67-mpg-diesel-focus-econetic-the-u-s-can%E2%80%99t-have/

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Blue_arrow posted:

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Szerek posted:

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I drive a 2008 Ford Focus. It is a base care with a standard transmission. I average 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways. I calculate my MPG per tank with two methods. 1) with a ScanGauge II and 2) with a pen and paper and they are always within .4 mpg of each other. I paid $12,400 for the car in '08. It is more cost effective than any Prius because it takes A LOT of gas to make up the nearly 10k in price difference.

Yes, I have a small car, but I only have to fill the tank once a month or so these days.

Maybe what Obama needs to do is look at why we don't have some fuel efficient cars available to us in the US, like:

http://gas2.org/2011/04/06/the-67-mpg-diesel-focus-econetic-the-u-s-can%E2%80%99t-have/

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really ? 42.2 MPG around town and on the highways


http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/24824.shtml
2008 Ford Focus

4 cyl, 2.0 L
Manual 5-spd
Regular Gasoline

24
City

35
Highway

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Mangler_X posted:

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reesescups posted:

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Fuel efficiency is the answer to high gas prices.


Couple years ago I had to replace my SUV. I did my research and I replaced my SUV with a trail rated jeep that gets double the gas mileage of my previous jeep.

I can't tow with it - but other than that, it's capable of doing all the off-roading I was doing with my previous jeep and I spend half as much on gas. Oh and the vehicle was less than 20k out the door.


I am super duper awesome!!!

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You got a Liberty didnt you? Its the only Jeep that gets even decent gas mileage
My 2005 Wrangler gets 19mpg HWY and I have after market intake and exhaust to improve over factory.
Gas Mileage sucks in Jeeps no matter what you do.

I wish to god someone would make a diesel engine for Jeeps that doesnt require a major refit and all new drive system so I could go Bio

On a side note, you can tow with a short wheel based Jeep. Just tow less than 1200lbs or have a breaking system on the trailer.

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paulg_68 posted:

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/serious

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Eager_Igraine posted:

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How you actually drive the vehicle has an impact on your mileage.

/hth

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Problem 1

A fellow travels from city A to city B. For the first hour, he drove at the constant speed of 20 miles per hour. Then he (instantaneously) increased his speed and, for the next hour, kept it at 30 miles per hour. Find the average speed of the motion.


Problem 2

A fellow travels from city A to city B. The first half of the way, he drove at the constant speed of 20 miles per hour. Then he (instantaneously) increased his speed and traveled the remaining distance at 30 miles per hour. Find the average speed of the motion.

Groucho48 posted:

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Paulg's statement was of the Problem 1 kind but he treated it as though it were of the Problem 2 kind.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Holy crap, Paul was actually (kinda) right about something in spite of himself. They do use a harmonic mean for the CAFE standards.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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From what I can tell from the context of the quote Obama is referencing the way the government calculates the number for fleet standards. ie my link

/shrug

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Groucho48 posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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From what I can tell from the context of the quote Obama is referencing the way the government calculates the number for fleet standards. ie my link

/shrug

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Your link was fine. In the overall picture, the harmonic average is probably the more useful. Paulg is right in that what we really need to know is how much gas we will use in actually driving a bunch of miles. If I had been in his place, I might have used his example to back up his original assertion, too. But, then, when folks called me on it, I would have agreed that my first statement was poorly worded and that things were really more complicated than that.

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Groucho48 posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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From what I can tell from the context of the quote Obama is referencing the way the government calculates the number for fleet standards. ie my link

/shrug

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Your link was fine. In the overall picture, the harmonic average is probably the more useful. Paulg is right in that what we really need to know is how much gas we will use in actually driving a bunch of miles. If I had been in his place, I might have used his example to back up his original assertion, too. But, then, when folks called me on it, I would have agreed that my first statement was poorly worded and that things were really more complicated than that.

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paulg_68 posted:

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/bow again

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paulg_68 posted:

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In case you didn't realize it (and obviously you don't) there are actually several different mathematically valid ways to determine an average.

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