Scarne
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/the-right-not-to-know
Instead, before I’d even known I was pregnant, a molecular flaw had determined that our son’s brain, spine and legs wouldn’t develop correctly. If he were to make it to term—something our doctor couldn’t guarantee—he’d need a lifetime of medical care. From the moment he was born, my doctor told us, our son would suffer greatly.
...
My doctor went on to tell us that, just two weeks prior, a new Texas law had come into effect requiring that women wait an extra 24 hours before having the procedure. Moreover, Austin has only one clinic providing second-trimester terminations, and that clinic might have a long wait. “Time is not on your side,†my doctor emphasized gently. For this reason, she urged us to seek a specialist’s second opinion the moment we left her office. “They’re ready for you,†she said, before ushering us out the back door to shield us from the smiling patients in the waiting room.
Good job!  
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SoBaKi
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Rick Perry and his ilk (pretty much every conservitard) needs to be weeded out of the gene pool.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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Conservatives want to control women. They just like to hide behind innocent babies while doing so.
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Yukishiro1
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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If you read the whole story it's a bit more complicated. Apparently the law doesn't require peopel with birth defects to go through the talk, although they still have to get the sonogram.
It's all a bunch of stupid BS honestly. If someone is callous enough that they don't care about the fetus showing them some pictures of it isn't gonna change their mind. If they do care and have still decided to have an abortion it's just putting them through more anguish for no real reason.
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Koneg
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Scarne posted:
http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/the-right-not-to-know
Good job!
** scratches head **
So where exactly is the issue? The doctors screwed up - she was exempted from the rules by the condition her fetus was in, she wasn't required to wait the 24 hours or have the second sonogram... yet it's still somehow the law's fault? WTH?
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Ptilk
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The problem is most women aren't exempted from this stupid bull shit.
The vast majority of women have to sit there and listen to a doctor spew endless reams of crap at them, undergo medical procedures that are unwanted, unnecessary, invasive, and insulting...and wait after jumping thru such stupid, bull shit, meaningless, and punitive steps before they can have the procedure performed.
Big government, intrusive, invasive, insulting, and expensive. Just what "conservatives" always claim to be against....but ALWAYS, always, always support.
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Cawlin
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Voodoo-Dahl posted:
Social Conservatives want to control all people. They just like to hide behind innocent babies, or attack women because they perceive women as somehow lesser people and likely easier targets.
FTFY.
For what it's worth, Social Conservatives are abhorrent to me too.
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Moe_Nox
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It always amuses me when people are outraged against this stuff as being invasive, and then fully support abortions.
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paulg_68
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Voodoo-Dahl posted:
Conservatives want to control women.
True, but libtards want to control everyone.
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Cawlin
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Moe_Nox posted:
It always amuses me when people are outraged against this stuff as being invasive, and then fully support abortions.
Dude the laws are about creating catch-22s. Can't fund birth control or sex education - also can't allow abortion. This pushes the available options towards only one alternative - abstinence. That is not a tenable solution and the so-called "moral" and "religious" roots of it are historically ALL about control.
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Moe_Nox
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I didn't click the link. This law is about sex education?
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Szerek
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Cawlin posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
It always amuses me when people are outraged against this stuff as being invasive, and then fully support abortions.
Dude the laws are about creating catch-22s. Can't fund birth control or sex education - also can't allow abortion. This pushes the available options towards only one alternative - abstinence. That is not a tenable solution and the so-called "moral" and "religious" roots of it are historically ALL about control.
Actually it goes even further than that. You can't fund birth control, or sex ed, and you can't allow abortion, then bitch about teenage pregnancy and its related medical costs, unwanted children, cost of the foster care system, and when those kids grow into screwed up adults who can't function properly we throw them in prison.
It is a sad system, but it is a brilliant money maker for corporate America. 
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Yukishiro1
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She was required to both have the sonogram and to wait 24 hours regardless. She just didn't have to listen to the doctor describing her baby, apparnently.
It is impossible to view any of this stuff as anything but trying to put women getting abortions through mental anguish in the hope the anguish is enough to make them change their decision.
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Cawlin
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Moe_Nox posted:
I didn't click the link. This law is about sex education?
No. The whole social conservative agenda feeds into this crap. This is only a part of it. I posted about sex ed and birth control as an illustration of how they seek to paint people into a corner with their policies.
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Ptilk
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The reality of the "conservative" movement is that they always support making other people do what they want them to do....not "freedom", not "smaller government". It's a movement centered on controlling other people, minorities and women in particular.
So afraid of everything. Scary whores might not need us men to control them if they can have sex with whoever they want like we can! OH NOEZ!!!11!!
Biggest bunch of cowardly, wanna be taliban, dick wads ever collected into one self professed group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfjAMRgpoug&feature=player_embedded
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Moe_Nox
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Cawlin posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
I didn't click the link. This law is about sex education?
No. The whole social conservative agenda feeds into this crap. This is only a part of it. I posted about sex ed and birth control as an illustration of how they seek to paint people into a corner with their policies.
Alright, that makes a bit more sense.
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theredkay1
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Moe_Nox posted:
It always amuses me when people are outraged against this stuff as being invasive, and then fully support abortions.
I dont think you have thought this one through very well. 
It would only make sense if you thought people objected to it because they object to all invasive procedures except for abortions.
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Moe_Nox
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theredkay1 posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
It always amuses me when people are outraged against this stuff as being invasive, and then fully support abortions.
I dont think you have thought this one through very well.
It would only make sense if you thought people objected to it because they object to all invasive procedures except for abortions.
It only doesn't make sense if you have been lobotomized.
You're in luck, I'm compassionate and willing to work with you even in your condition. 
Lib: OMG! Those damn RWNs want to put a probe up my wife's hoohoo and do an ultra sound on her before she willingly has her abortionist put a probe up her hoohoo to kill the baby. THOSE NAZIS!
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Moe_Nox posted:
Lib: OMG! Those damn RWNs want to put a probe up my wife's hoohoo and do an ultra sound on her before she willingly has her abortionist put a probe up her hoohoo to kill the baby. THOSE NAZIS!
Wait... you just assume in your case that most (any?) of these women have husbands?
This is where you go a bit astray, oh black-locked one...
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Yukishiro1
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Next time you get surgery to remove a tumor you should suggest the doctors cut you open once just to check and then make you wait 24 hours before actually doing the operation because clearly if you are willing to get cut up once what complaints could you have about getting cut up twice!
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Moe_Nox
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Complaining about it is fine. Complaining that one procedure is invasive and the other isn't, is really.. special.
AA, that was just my fictional narrative. I don't really think those women have husbands. Or souls.
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Yukishiro1
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The complaint is that there's no valid reason for the invasive procedure, not that it's invasive per se. You are just being obtuse.
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Manegarm
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Ptilk posted:
Big government, intrusive, invasive, insulting, and expensive. Just what "conservatives" always claim to be against....but ALWAYS, always, always support.
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Manegarm
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Moe_Nox posted:
It always amuses me when people are outraged against this stuff as being invasive, and then fully support abortions.
Hey Moe, would you say that there is a difference between you choosing to have a prostate exam and being forced to have someone finger up your butt?
This is the exact same thing, it's having to undergo something under duress because you need another medical procedure done.
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Sea_of_inK
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Self proclaimed fiscal conservatives will turn a blind eye to this at the voting booth, because taxes are theft or are at historic highs or something 
This stuff is for the base.
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Aerlinthian
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Government should not be coming between client and doctor in any way, shape or form.
The left will agree with that until cognitive dissonance kicks in which leads them to continue to demand that medical care be under control of the state for economic reasons. IE social fascism, which in reality means continued corporatism.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Aerlinthian posted:
Government should not be coming between client and doctor in any way, shape or form.
The left will agree with that until cognitive dissonance kicks in which leads them to continue to demand that medical care be under control of the state for economic reasons. IE social fascism, which in reality means continued corporatism.
Actually I am all for UHC but don't want the government in between patient and client. The thing that tends to invite the government into the equation is the use of insurance. Once insurance is part of the doctor client relationship government is close behind because insurance companies can't be trusted.
Not to mention pharmaceutical companies and for profit doctors.
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theredkay1
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Moe_Nox posted:
Forced invasive procedures are no different than self elected invasive procedures. If you are ok with elective heart surgey, you must also be ok with state required lobotomies! YOUMUSTISAY!
Ohhhhh, yeah makes total sense. 
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Moe_Nox
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Kay you could at least stay regional.
If a woman is going to have someone go into her uterus to pluck a fetus, is that more invasive than having a doc peek into your uterus to have a peek first?
It would be like you enjoying your gay sex, which is fine I do not judge, but then having you completely outraged at the intrusiveness of an alien anal probe.
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Manegarm
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Moe_Nox posted:
Kay you could at least stay regional.
If a woman is going to have someone go into her uterus to pluck a fetus, is that more invasive than having a doc peek into your uterus to have a peek first?
It would be like you enjoying your gay sex, which is fine I do not judge, but then having you completely outraged at the intrusiveness of an alien anal probe.
So you're fine with someone forcing a dildo up your ass before you get your prostate exam, just because the Government mandated it?
It's fascinating how stupid you are.
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Yukishiro1
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Uh I don't think it's at all unreasonable for gay people not want to get analy probed by aliens. Your analogy is so bad you just proved the opposite of what you wanted to prove.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Moe_Nox posted:
It would be like you enjoying your gay sex, which is fine I do not judge, but then having you completely outraged at the intrusiveness of an alien anal probe.
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Aerlinthian
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Aerlinthian posted:
Government should not be coming between client and doctor in any way, shape or form. The left will agree with that until cognitive dissonance kicks in which leads them to continue to demand that medical care be under control of the state for economic reasons. IE social fascism, which in reality means continued corporatism.
Actually I am all for UHC but don't want the government in between patient and client.
[epic_facepalm]
Sin_of_Onin posted:
The thing that tends to invite the government into the equation is the use of insurance.
No, economic illiterates invited government into the equation. People who fail to understand that government does one thing extremely well, blow bubbles.
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Once insurance is part of the doctor client relationship government is close behind because insurance companies can't be trusted.
But a government with a long established history of transgressions against its own citizens and the constitution can be trusted...? 
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Not to mention pharmaceutical companies and for profit doctors.
Right, lets enslave those people. They are not entitled to profit from their labor or intelligence. They are somehow different from other people who contribute to the world. 
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theredkay1
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Moe_Nox posted:
Unless you are a virgin, you cant really complain about a government ordered rape!
Moe_Nox posted:
Unless you are an immortal, you cant really complain about state ordered murder!
Keep going! 
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theredkay1
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Aerlinthian posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
The thing that tends to invite the government into the equation is the use of insurance.
No, economic illiterates invited government into the equation. People who fail to understand that government does one thing extremely well, blow bubbles.
If you could design an insurance company, what would you come up with?
You'd want it to be massive. You'd want it to be immune to cash flow problems.
But you get into the problem of a monopoly abusing its market power and abusing its customers. To counteract this in our imaginary world we could make all the customers the owners of the company.
There is no problem with the loss of innovation in a monopoly since insurance is all about spreading risk...there is nothing to innovate.
This would not require an advanced degree in economics. Your jab at the economic illiterate is pretty funny though.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Subject:
'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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theredkay1 posted:
There is no problem with the loss of innovation in a monopoly since insurance is all about spreading risk...there is nothing to innovate.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Subject:
'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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Aerlinthian posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Aerlinthian posted:
Government should not be coming between client and doctor in any way, shape or form. The left will agree with that until cognitive dissonance kicks in which leads them to continue to demand that medical care be under control of the state for economic reasons. IE social fascism, which in reality means continued corporatism.
Actually I am all for UHC but don't want the government in between patient and client.
[epic_facepalm]
Sin_of_Onin posted:
The thing that tends to invite the government into the equation is the use of insurance.
No, economic illiterates invited government into the equation. People who fail to understand that government does one thing extremely well, blow bubbles.
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Once insurance is part of the doctor client relationship government is close behind because insurance companies can't be trusted.
But a government with a long established history of transgressions against its own citizens and the constitution can be trusted...?
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Not to mention pharmaceutical companies and for profit doctors.
Right, lets enslave those people. They are not entitled to profit from their labor or intelligence. They are somehow different from other people who contribute to the world.
Government was invited in when people were not getting care. Government is invited in when studies show that the poor are dying because of health care policies. Government is invited in when it becomes clear that people are willing to lie and commit fraud in the name of profit.
The government's job should be to empower people and in this specific case it is their job to ensure the power of the patient which can be at odds with the interests of for profit institutions.
I am not talking about people just being in business selling widgets, I am talking about people commiting fraud and putting people at medical risk in the name of profit.
Reality is lost on you.
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B_Shinkicker
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Subject:
'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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It scares me that some people in this thread think that someone having something put in their pooper voluntarily out of love, and having something shoved in there against their will by a secretive alien civilization are equivalent.
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Bobvillas
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Subject:
'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law
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B_Shinkicker posted:
It scares me that some people in this thread think that someone having something put in their pooper voluntarily out of love, and having something shoved in there against their will by a secretive alien civilization are equivalent.
I don't think you meant this to be funny, but it was.
A lot.
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