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Boards Archive] |
Welcome to the Vault Network
forum archive.
This is not a complete archive, time didn't allot us the
opportunity to properly backup the majority of the boards
deemed "expendable". Most boards on this list have at least
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Topic: Leon Panetta
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Tych2
Title: Obama Appointed Outpost Czar
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Subject:
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I am surprised that no one made a thread about this...
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/14/10684063-in-highly-unusual-move-marines-asked-to-disarm-before-leon-panetta-speech
In a highly unusual move, around 200 U.S. Marines were asked to leave their weapons outside the tent where U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta was set to speak during his trip to Afghanistan on Wednesday.
Did the defense secretary really fear for his life from a marine?
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Crackdoc
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Subject:
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Tych2 posted:
....................Did the defense secretary really fear for his life from a marine?
Yepper!
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Sansfear
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Subject:
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"He said he had given the order because the two dozen Afghan soldiers also there were unarmed and he did not want to treat them differently."
Great way to destroy moral at the same time by telling your soldiers that you don't trust them.
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Moe_Nox
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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I would vote for Panetta for President and hope he runs eventually.
Pointless to hate on reality if you can't change it, and the reality is that Obama's strategic shift in Afghanistan has alienated the populace.
Panetta knows this and its just common sense to protect his life and disarm the local "allies". It was an attempt to be courteous asking our marines to disarm as well.
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Szerek
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Nothing says, "Thanks for your service, fellas!" like stripping your troops of their weapons because you think one is gonna putt a bullet in your ass.
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Moe_Nox
Title: In Moe We Trust
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Subject:
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Nothing says "Late to the party" like crying about this shit now when people forecast it 2 and a half years ago when the changes were made.
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Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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Subject:
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Not sure what the big deal is here. Soldiers are told where they can and can't have weapons all the time.
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First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Tych2
Title: Obama Appointed Outpost Czar
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Subject:
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Taliesihne posted:
Not sure what the big deal is here. Soldiers are told where they can and can't have weapons all the time.
I don't know what the big deal is either, but NBC says its highly unusual. Did they disarm the soldiers when Bush or Cheney visited?
I honestly don't know because I really don't pay that much attention to it. The only reason I even noticed this is because the Nightly New said it was unusual and it sparked the stereotype that the military likes the repubs better than the dems.
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Kapie
Drevid in Tanks
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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Taliesihne posted:
Not sure what the big deal is here. Soldiers are told where they can and can't have weapons all the time.
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"God you guys suck at the internet - how can you fail to locate porn?!" - Eternal_Midnight
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Sin_of_Onin
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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Yeah the soldiers had to hand over their weapons but they forgot to take Gandalf's staff so it was all for nothing.
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F is for Fake-believe
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Run, Forrest! Run!
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Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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Imo, it's the Fox Effect.
1) Bleat loudly about a non-issue
2) Accuse MSM of not following suit
3) Bleat louder
4) MSM picks it up and runs with it, eventually discovers the story is crap
5) Move on to the next issue
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Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Moe_Nox
Title: In Moe We Trust
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Subject:
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Its not crap. Its unusual and disrespectful to ask an ally to disarm their troops for a visiting dignitary.
We don't ask any other ally to do this. The ally may do so on their own, but it certainly isn't standard.
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Bjorvald
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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Taliesihne posted:
Not sure what the big deal is here. Soldiers are told where they can and can't have weapons all the time.
From what I've read this isn't an "all the time" thing. It is a singular occurrence. It has never happened before.
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GANKED AGAIN
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Ashmaele
Title: Pastor of Muppets
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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Moe_Nox posted:
Obama's strategic shift in Afghanistan has alienated the populace.
Yeah they loved us before Obama came along 
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Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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Subject:
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It is not disrespectful to disarm an 'ally' whose army regulars are attacking us.
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Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Bjorvald
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Subject:
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U.S. Marines are attacking us?
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Vydor
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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It's odd really.
However, with the recent shooting and I think there was a car bomb explosion at the airport just before Panetta arrived. So, it's understandable that people get nervous. I don't think this is really a big deal.
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Moe_Nox
Title: In Moe We Trust
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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Ashmaele posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
Obama's strategic shift in Afghanistan has alienated the populace.
Yeah they loved us before Obama came along
Hey look, another smiley from shitbirds that aren't paying attention.
Feel free to document all the attacks on our forces by actual Afghan troops before we shifted tactics and Gen McChrystal resigned.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
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Szerek
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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Vydor posted:
It's odd really.
However, with the recent shooting and I think there was a car bomb explosion at the airport just before Panetta arrived. So, it's understandable that people get nervous. I don't think this is really a big deal.
So what Panetta is saying to our troops then, is: "It is ok if you die doing what I tell you to do, but check your weapons at the door because there is not way in HELL I'm gonna die. In summary, Me > You."
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Ashmaele
Title: Pastor of Muppets
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Subject:
Leon Panetta
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Way to move the goalposts, Independent Guy.
Or are you suggesting that part of the "US Strategy" under Obama is to have US troops burn Korans and sneak off post in the middle of the night to slaughter civilians?
Obviously the US stepping up operations is going to lead to more insurgency activity on the part of the enemy. That is to be expected. Maybe if we had focused more on Afghanistan in the first place instead of going into Iraq we'd have been out of there by now and there would be no need for a surge in Afghanistan. I guess we'll never know. But to think that the US was welcomed into Afghanistan as liberators and that the Afghans suddenly turned against the US when Obama took office is patently absurd/stupid (take your pick).
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Vydor
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Subject:
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Szerek posted:
Vydor posted:
It's odd really.
However, with the recent shooting and I think there was a car bomb explosion at the airport just before Panetta arrived. So, it's understandable that people get nervous. I don't think this is really a big deal.
So what Panetta is saying to our troops then, is: "It is ok if you die doing what I tell you to do, but check your weapons at the door because there is not way in HELL I'm gonna die. In summary, Me > You."
Maybe, I dunno. But more like, it was a chaotic day in a chaotic week and security could not be guaranteed at the event. So, better safe then sorry. I highly doubt this is an ongoing procedure change for the Marines in a deployed area.
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Moe_Nox
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Moving the goalposts might look something like "BUUUSH!! It doesn't matter what Obama does, this is all Bush's fault!"
article posted:
The Taliban were overthrown in the 2001 American-backed invasion of Afghanistan. The Taliban were never defeated, however. They retreated, regrouped, especially in Pakistan, and by 2006 were again controlling vast swaths of southern and western Afghanistan while inflicting heavy casualties on NATO and American forces. clicky
Gen McChrystal understood the difference between Taliban and Afghan, and his policies while serving under Bush highlighted that. He asked Obama for a surge to go after the regrouping Taliban. He got approval for that. Then he also got roders to implement the surge every-freaking-where, including provinces that haven't been significantly hostile since close to 2001.
After losing the debate on why this was a bad idea, he called Obama a noob and resigned.
Any of this ringing a bell?
Color me shocked that they all look the same to you, and you can't distinguish the enemy.
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LadyGodiva.
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Subject:
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Vydor posted:
Maybe, I dunno. But more like, it was a chaotic day in a chaotic week and security could not be guaranteed at the event. So, better safe then sorry.
What's safer than being in a room full of armed US marines?? 
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Ashmaele
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Moe_Nox posted:
Gen McChrystal understood the difference between Taliban and Afghan, and his policies while serving under Bush highlighted that. He asked Obama for a surge to go after the regrouping Taliban. He got approval for that. Then he also got roders to implement the surge every-freaking-where, including provinces that haven't been significantly hostile since close to 2001.
After losing the debate on why this was a bad idea, he called Obama a noob and resigned.
Any of this ringing a bell?
Actually, no, since you got it completely wrong.
McChrystal didn't actually resign, he was relieved of his command because he and his subordinates didn't know how to keep their mouths shut. The 'resignation' was a mere formality on the part of the general. McChrystal was out, period. As he should have been. Even your fellow conservatives conceded that getting rid of McChrystal was the right move and pretty much had to be done.
Also, Obama explicitly stated that his decision to relieve McChrystal and replace him with Petraus had nothing whatsoever to do with strategy or tactics. So your assertion that Obama wanted to do Army stuff that McChrystal did not want to do and as a result McChrystal took his ball and left is false.
And no 'surge' would have been necessary if the job would have been seen through in the first place in Afghanistan. We were there for eight focking years before Obama was elected. Whether you realize it or not the world was already turning before your lamentations over Obama began in January 2009.
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SoBaKi
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And once again, slow_moe has his lunch, and lunch money, taken away from him.
Like I said before, slow_moe....man, you're dumb.
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Kjarhall
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I don't see what the big deal is, especially in light of all the psycho crap going on there from both sides.
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Moe_Nox
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Subject:
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Ashmaele posted:
Also, Obama explicitly stated that his decision to relieve McChrystal and replace him with Petraus had nothing whatsoever to do with strategy or tactics.
Holy shit you're an idiot. "BUT BUT BUT OBAMA SAID! 
Do some reading other than DailyKOS and the Outpost.
Watch any of McChrystal's speeches that are all over YouTube saying exactly what needed to be done to win in Afghanistan.
Watch any of the PBS, National Geographic, or independent war journalist documentaries on the last 3 years in Afghanistan, what has changed and what is going on.
Unless ofcourse you consider those RWN propaganda.
And Kjar you are correct: its not really a big deal, especially considering how the situation is deteriorating. It was a prudent move by Panetta and I approve.
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Szerek
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Subject:
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Moe_Nox posted:
Holy shit you're an idiot. "BUT BUT BUT OBAMA SAID!
Watch any of McChrystal's speeches that are all over YouTube saying exactly what needed to be done to win in Afghanistan.
And Kjar you are correct: its not really a big deal, especially considering how the situation is deteriorating. It was a prudent move by Panetta and I approve.
First off you are an idiot for thinking than anyone in our government ever wanted this war won. When was the last time we actually tried to win a war? The "war on terror" is the perfect "war" because we can't "win". It is a war that continually creates new enemies after we kill the old. It is a perfect scheme for funneling tax payer money to different corporate entities at the cost of the lives of brown people. Corporate America profits from war, it always has, as do our politicians. Winning wars hasn't been about winning, or peace for over 60 years now.
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Moe_Nox
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Gen McChrystal was the commanding general of forces in Afghanistan.
He was not an elected politician in D.C.
The fact that you cannot understand the differences between the two shows yet again that less than average Americans have their head up their ass on this issue.
Thanks for making a great example to underline my point.
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Szerek
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Moe_Nox posted:
Gen McChrystal was the commanding general of forces in Afghanistan.
He was not an elected politician in D.C.
The fact that you cannot understand the differences between the two shows yet again that less than average Americans have their head up their ass on this issue.
Thanks for making a great example to underline my point.
You're right. I'm sure the fact that his daddy was a Major General had nothing to do with his rise in the military amirite? His daddy, I'm sure wasn't connected with Washington, and neither was he on his rise up, amirite? I'm sorry, I am stupid to think that high ranking military personnel have political connections.
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SoBaKi
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Subject:
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Moe_Nox posted:
Gen McChrystal was the commanding general of forces in Afghanistan.
He was not an elected politician in D.C.
The fact that you cannot understand the differences between the two shows yet again that less than average Americans have their head up their ass on this issue.
Thanks for making a great example to underline my point.
And you think that means something?
He now is on the Board of Directors for a company called Navistar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navistar
"The current record shows headquarter located in Warrenville, IL with employee size 250 - 499 and has annual revenue of $9.713 billion. 
"Present day: Hybrids, Defense
International MaxxPro MRAPIn 2007, Navistar's International Truck and Engine Corporation is the first company to enter hybrid commercial truck production, with the International DuraStar Hybrid diesel-electric truck.[5]
Navistar is the prime supplier of MRAP armored vehicles to the US military. The Navistar 7000 series has been fielded by the Canadian Forces for domestic operations. In 2005, the US Army ordered 2900 7,000-MV for the Afghan National Army and Iraqi Ministry of Defense and an additional order of 7,000 was added in 2008."
Slow_Moe, man, you're dumb.
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Moe_Nox
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I think its cute that you keep using that pet name that Montana_Mike came up with. He must have really meant something to you. 
And I thought you served? I guess you didn't, for if you did you would have a clue about ex military taking jobs with what they are familiar with.
No different than if Rik takes some higher up job in avionics someday. Or any of the other OP veterans (actual veterans  ) taking a leadership/ advisor role in a field they are intimately familiar with.
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SoBaKi
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Moe_Nox posted:
I think its cute that you keep using that pet name that Montana_Mike came up with. He must have really meant something to you.
And I thought you served? I guess you didn't, for if you did you would have a clue about ex military taking jobs with what they are familiar with.
No different than if Rik takes some higher up job in avionics someday. Or any of the other OP veterans (actual veterans ) taking a leadership/ advisor role in a field they are intimately familiar with.
Actually, I'm intimately familiar with it. The point, lost upon you, is that your answer you provided earlier, that somehow being in the military and not an elected official, put him beyond reproach with regards to an extended war climate that benefits corporations. When in fact, he is relying upon an extended war climate to line his pockets.
Man, you're dumb.
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Moe_Nox
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SoBaKi posted:
He now is on the Board of Directors for a company called Navistar.
****
Navistar is the prime supplier of MRAP armored vehicles to the US military. The Navistar 7000 series has been fielded by the Canadian Forces for domestic operations. In 2005, the US Army ordered 2900 7,000-MV for the Afghan National Army and Iraqi Ministry of Defense and an additional order of 7,000 was added in 2008.
Did you want to double down on your stupid here, and declare him a time traveler?
1.21 GIGAWATTS!
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Ashmaele
Title: Pastor of Muppets
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Moe_Nox posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Also, Obama explicitly stated that his decision to relieve McChrystal and replace him with Petraus had nothing whatsoever to do with strategy or tactics.
Holy shit you're an idiot. "BUT BUT BUT OBAMA SAID!
[/quote]
Let's see. On the one hand I have what the Administration said, which has not been refuted to my knowledge...and on the other hand I have What Moe Nox Said.
Hmm, who to believe??? A guy whose remark could be easily refuted by McChrystal himself, or a guy who claims to be a "moderate" on this board while spending 95% of his time whining about Obama and the Dems?
Moe_Nox posted:
Do some reading other than DailyKOS and the Outpost.
How about Fox News?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/23/mcchrystal-afghanistan-fate/
McChrystal asked for a surge, and he got one. Then he ran his mouth in front of a Rolling Stone reporter and got fired. Somehow that made all of Afghanistan hate us and it's all Obama's fault 
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SoBaKi
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Moe_Nox posted:
SoBaKi posted:
He now is on the Board of Directors for a company called Navistar.
****
Navistar is the prime supplier of MRAP armored vehicles to the US military. The Navistar 7000 series has been fielded by the Canadian Forces for domestic operations. In 2005, the US Army ordered 2900 7,000-MV for the Afghan National Army and Iraqi Ministry of Defense and an additional order of 7,000 was added in 2008.
Did you want to double down on your stupid here, and declare him a time traveler?
1.21 GIGAWATTS!
I know you're stupid, I know this.
But just because I feel sorry for you....
http://www.navistar.com/Navistar/News/Newsroom#
"LISLE, Ill., March 15, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Navistar Defense, LLC received an award to conduct the installation work associated with its January order to upgrade 2,717 International® MaxxPro® Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles with a new vehicle chassis. The $21 million contract from the U.S. Army Contracting Command is just one of Navistar's many reset offerings aimed at revitalizing existing defense assets for future missions. "
http://www.navistar.com/Navistar/News/Newsroom#
"Navistar Defense, Indigen Armor and SAIC Team For SOCOM Ground Mobility Vehicle Program
Lisle, Ill. (February 8, 2012) Navistar Defense, LLC, Indigen Armor and SAIC today announced they will team for the upcoming U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) Ground Mobility Vehicle 1.1 (GMV 1.1) program.
The GMV 1.1 program requires a highly mobile, roll-off mission-ready platform that is transportable on a CH-47 helicopter. To support Special Operations (Specops) missions, each vehicle will be integrated with a full government furnished Command, Control, Communications, Computers, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (C4ISR) suite. "
http://www.navistar.com/Navistar/News/Newsroom#
"Navistar Defense to Provide $110 Million In Enhancements to MaxxPro Vehicle Fleet
LISLE, Ill., Jan. 25, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Navistar Defense, LLC received a $110 million delivery order today to provide 650 independent suspension kits for International® MaxxPro® Plus Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles. The U.S. Marine Corps System Command order will enhance the mobility and survivability of earlier MaxxPro vehicles with the addition of the DXM independent suspension kits. "
etc, etc, etc...
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Eternal_Midnight
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Do 200 marines need to have their weapons when they meet with SecDef?
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Moe_Nox
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Ashmaele posted:
McChrystal asked for a surge, and he got one. Then he ran his mouth in front of a Rolling Stone reporter and got fired. Somehow that made all of Afghanistan hate us and it's all Obama's fault
So you think he was pissed off with Obama for giving him exactly what he asked for?
indeed
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Vydor
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
Do 200 marines need to have their weapons when they meet with SecDef?
Don't know, but I think it's normal that they carry them when doing so. Evidently this has never happened before.
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SoBaKi
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Moe_Nox posted:
Ashmaele posted:
McChrystal asked for a surge, and he got one. Then he ran his mouth in front of a Rolling Stone reporter and got fired. Somehow that made all of Afghanistan hate us and it's all Obama's fault
So you think he was pissed off with Obama for giving him exactly what he asked for?
indeed
You've already been shown you have no idea what you're talking about.
Dig dummy, dig.
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Eternal_Midnight
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Vydor posted:
Eternal_Midnight posted:
Do 200 marines need to have their weapons when they meet with SecDef?
Don't know, but I think it's normal that they carry them when doing so. Evidently this has never happened before.
That may be true, but it was only recently that two high level ambassadors were killed inside a supposedly secure location. I think being prudent, given the current climate of mistrust, is probably warrented.
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Szerek
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
Vydor posted:
Eternal_Midnight posted:
Do 200 marines need to have their weapons when they meet with SecDef?
Don't know, but I think it's normal that they carry them when doing so. Evidently this has never happened before.
That may be true, but it was only recently that two high level ambassadors were killed inside a supposedly secure location. I think being prudent, given the current climate of mistrust, is probably warrented.
I disagree. If we are putting our kids in that situation then Mr. Panetta, upon exiting his plane, should be issued an M-16, A helmet and some ammo and take his chances with the rest of the boys.
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Vydor
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
Vydor posted:
Eternal_Midnight posted:
Do 200 marines need to have their weapons when they meet with SecDef?
Don't know, but I think it's normal that they carry them when doing so. Evidently this has never happened before.
That may be true, but it was only recently that two high level ambassadors were killed inside a supposedly secure location. I think being prudent, given the current climate of mistrust, is probably warrented.
-nods-
That's what I was saying earlier, there are definitely some extenuating circumstances that attribute to this incident.
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Moe_Nox
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
it was only recently that two high level ambassadors were killed inside a supposedly secure location. I think being prudent, given the current climate of mistrust, is probably warrented.
Yes, the more rational understand that while this is an unusual step to take diplomatically, it is needed with the situation sliding so poorly.
RWNs want to argle that this is a bigger deal than it is, which is false.
LWNs want to argle that it isn't Obama's doing, which is also false.
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