AlsoFaromir
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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I'm pretty outraged about this. Food justice is an incredibly important issue to me, one that I've been active on for the last 3+ years. In that entire time, at the hundreds of feedings I've been to, no one has ever gotten sick from the food we've served. At occupy philly, we fed several hundred people a day for almost 2 months. Not a single person ever complained about any health problems from the food. Yet the city is attempting to justify their attacks on feedings by saying that they are unsanitary/unsafe. Know whats unhealthy? Starving.
It really has nothing to do with health. Its just one more move in the city's attempts to push the homeless out of visibility in center city.
We're going to ignore the regulations and continue serving free healthy food multiple times a week. Right now I'm working with the Occupy Philly food group, and we're also working on getting South Philly Food Not Bombs back off the ground.
http://blog.foodnotbombs.net/philadelphia-decides-to-stop-outdoor-feeding-of-homeless%E2%80%AC-shocking-video/
http://theswansays.tumblr.com/post/19324257939/mayor-nutters-version-of-help
So frustrating.
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Dark_EternalFF
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Don't get too mad, with your injuries you might blow a head vein
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Reapist
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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And I can sure tell you about blowing a vein in your head.
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Tai-Daishar_MT
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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My guess is (did not read the links) the city is worried that the first person to get food poisoning is going to sue the city for allowing it to happen. Chances are that suit will win (this is the nation of the frivolous lawsuit after all) and they will be out money they don't have. Not saying I am taking a position either way but it sure seems obvious what is going on.
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HeartView
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Just have someone outside handing out 5 dollar bills and then charge them $5 for the meal.
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Gildash
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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HeartView posted:
Just have someone outside handing out 5 dollar bills and then charge them $5 for the meal.
lol!
$5 meal or $5 crack rock.....hmmmmm
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Chogram
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
My guess is (did not read the links) the city is worried that the first person to get food poisoning is going to sue the city for allowing it to happen. Chances are that suit will win (this is the nation of the frivolous lawsuit after all) and they will be out money they don't have. Not saying I am taking a position either way but it sure seems obvious what is going on.
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AlsoFaromir
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
My guess is (did not read the links) the city is worried that the first person to get food poisoning is going to sue the city for allowing it to happen. Chances are that suit will win (this is the nation of the frivolous lawsuit after all) and they will be out money they don't have. Not saying I am taking a position either way but it sure seems obvious what is going on.
I disagree, I really think its about pushing the homeless out of center city/off the parkway. They're putting a new Barnes Foundation on the parkway and want to project a specific image of the area. At one of the public meetings about this legislation, one of the neighborhood association presidents from the area referred to the homeless as "an eyesore" and pretty directly implied that he supported it because he wanted them out of the area.
Plus, free outdoor servings have been going on for decades, not just in Philadelphia, but nation wide. I've never heard of anyone getting sick from a Food Not Bombs meal, so I don't see why it would suddenly be such a concern to the city now.
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Banelord_FF
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Can you blame them. Philly is filthy enough, they don't need a bunch of homeless people congregating and stinking the place up too.
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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The homeless should go live on reservations with the indians.
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HeartView
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Gildash posted:
HeartView posted:
Just have someone outside handing out 5 dollar bills and then charge them $5 for the meal.
lol!
$5 meal or $5 crack rock.....hmmmmm
Not every homeless person is on drugs. 
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Tai-Daishar_MT
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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That could certainly be one of their goals as well, not disputing it for a second, but it still changes nothing in terms of what I described earlier.
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AlsoFaromir
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Banelord_FF posted:
Can you blame them. Philly is filthy enough, they don't need a bunch of homeless people congregating and stinking the place up too.
This doesn't actually do anything to address the issue of homelessness in Philadelphia, it just makes it more difficult, expensive, and legally risky for people who want to help the homeless.
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suntzukali2
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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maybe hand them 5 dollars gift vouchers to your soup kitchen.
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NonOffensiveName
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Reapist posted:
And I can sure tell you about blowing a vein in your head.
DE and Reapist can tell you about blowing head too.
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Jesus.Christ..
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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AlsoFaromir posted:
We're going to ignore the regulations and continue serving free healthy food multiple times a week.
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AlsoFaromir
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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suntzukali2 posted:
maybe hand them 5 dollars gift vouchers to your soup kitchen.
Neither of the groups I work with have an indoor space to serve. We don't have a lot of resources, we pretty much entirely rely on donated produce from the docks. We don't have any public or private funding or anything, so securing an indoor space to regularly serve the volume of people we regularly serve would be essentially impossible for us.
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JD_HOGG
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Why don't you teach them how to eat out of dumpsters? Teach a man to fish...you know how it goes.
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Fozzie_Bear
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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AlsoFaromir posted:
We're going to ignore the regulations and continue serving free healthy food multiple times a week
So frustrating.
when they throw you in jail... can I have your meager postcount?
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AlsoFaromir
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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JD_HOGG posted:
Why don't you teach them how to eat out of dumpsters? Teach a man to fish...you know how it goes.
Eating healthy out of dumpsters kind of requires a place to cook.
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JD_HOGG
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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AlsoFaromir posted:
JD_HOGG posted:
Why don't you teach them how to eat out of dumpsters? Teach a man to fish...you know how it goes.
Eating healthy out of dumpsters kind of requires a place to cook.
I see those barrels with fires in them all over the place in the cities. They can use those.
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-Accident-
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I thought you had to have a permit to give out food to people?
I agree that it's bureaucratic and probably unnecessary, but who's to say you are practicing good food safety techniques, if you're not being inspected from time to time?
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HeartView
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The homeless will be our food supply of the future.
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AlsoFaromir
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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-Accident- posted:
I thought you had to have a permit to give out food to people?
I agree that it's bureaucratic and probably unnecessary, but who's to say you are practicing good food safety techniques, if you're not being inspected from time to time?
Currently I believe the law only requires permits if you are selling food.
I think the fact that no one ever gets sick from the food is pretty good support for the fact that we're practicing good food safety. Plus, almost all of the food we serve is vegan. There is much less risk of food borne illness when you aren't dealing with meat/dairy. Probably at least half of the people that volunteer with us have some form of professional kitchen experience, and have been trained in proper food safety protocol. The fact that we're all really passionate about what we're doing, and are there because we actually care ensures that we all make a strong effort to do things in a sanitary way.
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aon_mixed
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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why dont you see if a food truck company will gift you an older vehicle, read: roach coach and get it certified by the health department
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-Accident-
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AlsoFaromir posted:
-Accident- posted:
I thought you had to have a permit to give out food to people?
I agree that it's bureaucratic and probably unnecessary, but who's to say you are practicing good food safety techniques, if you're not being inspected from time to time?
Currently I believe the law only requires permits if you are selling food.
I think the fact that no one ever gets sick from the food is pretty good support for the fact that we're practicing good food safety. Plus, almost all of the food we serve is vegan. There is much less risk of food borne illness when you aren't dealing with meat/dairy. Probably at least half of the people that volunteer with us have some form of professional kitchen experience, and have been trained in proper food safety protocol. The fact that we're all really passionate about what we're doing, and are there because we actually care ensures that we all make a strong effort to do things in a sanitary way.
I'm sure you're right (esp. about it being easier to keep things sanitary when you're dealing with strictly vegan food), but I don't know that a government agency would be willing to say, "Oh, no one's ever gotten sick so you don't need to go through the same process everyone else goes through."
Hopefully you're right about this only applying to food sellers, though (and that would definitely be a great reason not to charge for your service, even if you hand out vouchers).
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AlsoFaromir
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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-Accident- posted:
AlsoFaromir posted:
-Accident- posted:
I thought you had to have a permit to give out food to people?
I agree that it's bureaucratic and probably unnecessary, but who's to say you are practicing good food safety techniques, if you're not being inspected from time to time?
Currently I believe the law only requires permits if you are selling food.
I think the fact that no one ever gets sick from the food is pretty good support for the fact that we're practicing good food safety. Plus, almost all of the food we serve is vegan. There is much less risk of food borne illness when you aren't dealing with meat/dairy. Probably at least half of the people that volunteer with us have some form of professional kitchen experience, and have been trained in proper food safety protocol. The fact that we're all really passionate about what we're doing, and are there because we actually care ensures that we all make a strong effort to do things in a sanitary way.
I'm sure you're right (esp. about it being easier to keep things sanitary when you're dealing with strictly vegan food), but I don't know that a government agency would be willing to say, "Oh, no one's ever gotten sick so you don't need to go through the same process everyone else goes through."
Hopefully you're right about this only applying to food sellers, though (and that would definitely be a great reason not to charge for your service, even if you hand out vouchers).
If we ever started charging for the food I would stop being involved, the whole point is that food should be a basic human right, not a privilege.
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FineYoungCannibals
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every homeless person bumming around on the streets should be shot and lit on fire
f*** the poor
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Ptilk
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F*CK the police.
Keep serving food.
Dare someone to arrest you or fine you for feeding the hungry. Then show up at their stupid little church the next Sunday and ask them to explain it to you.
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Bat_Avenger
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BRAVO ...much like stray cats if you feed them they just keep coming back.
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AlsoFaromir
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Ptilk posted:
F*CK the police.
Keep serving food.
Dare someone to arrest you or fine you for feeding the hungry. Then show up at their stupid little church the next Sunday and ask them to explain it to you.
I forget if it was last summer or the previous one, but something like 35 people got arrested in Orlando for doing food not bombs. As far as I know, it still hasn't stopped them.
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mightbe
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you know how much bread is thrown away in america from distributors since the experiation date is "coming". we could feed the homeless and welfare people for life
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AlsoFaromir
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mightbe posted:
you know how much bread is thrown away in america from distributors since the experiation date is "coming". we could feed the homeless and welfare people for life
Not just bread, but produce too. All of the produce we get comes from the docks, and its all perfectly good produce, just stuff thats slightly too ripe to send out to the stores, or slightly bruised.
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mightbe
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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AlsoFaromir posted:
mightbe posted:
you know how much bread is thrown away in america from distributors since the experiation date is "coming". we could feed the homeless and welfare people for life
Not just bread, but produce too. All of the produce we get comes from the docks, and its all perfectly good produce, just stuff thats slightly too ripe to send out to the stores, or slightly bruised.
alot of people dont relize how much food is thrown away.
my grandparents go to a bread distributor to pick up bread deleivery drivers bring back due to the experation date is in a couple of days. they use the bread, doughnuts and wraps to feed there pigs and cows.
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Bat_Avenger
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lol .. free food is a right. I want my free food.
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FineYoungCannibals
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Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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AlsoFaromir posted:
mightbe posted:
you know how much bread is thrown away in america from distributors since the experiation date is "coming". we could feed the homeless and welfare people for life
Not just bread, but produce too. All of the produce we get comes from the docks, and its all perfectly good produce, just stuff thats slightly too ripe to send out to the stores, or slightly bruised.
in Canada this is a problem because the homeless would eat the old food and get sick then sue the suppliers, so now the extra food goes to the dump over fear of lawsuits
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Unarmed-Yarr
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sounds like they dropped quite a bomb on you guys
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AlsoFaromir
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Bat_Avenger posted:
lol .. free food is a right. I want my free food.
Odds are whatever city you live in has a food not bombs, go get some free food. In addition to the hot meals we serve, we also gives out bags of produce if people want some food to take home.
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mightbe
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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FineYoungCannibals posted:
AlsoFaromir posted:
mightbe posted:
you know how much bread is thrown away in america from distributors since the experiation date is "coming". we could feed the homeless and welfare people for life
Not just bread, but produce too. All of the produce we get comes from the docks, and its all perfectly good produce, just stuff thats slightly too ripe to send out to the stores, or slightly bruised.
in Canada this is a problem because the homeless would eat the old food and get sick then sue the suppliers, so now the extra food goes to the dump over fear of lawsuits
get a job you bums or risk free food
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Bat_Avenger
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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that's it, i am going to stop buy food and eat free. save myself 600 - 800 bucks a month.
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Chogram
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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AlsoFaromir posted:
-Accident- posted:
I thought you had to have a permit to give out food to people?
I agree that it's bureaucratic and probably unnecessary, but who's to say you are practicing good food safety techniques, if you're not being inspected from time to time?
Currently I believe the law only requires permits if you are selling food.
I think the fact that no one ever gets sick from the food is pretty good support for the fact that we're practicing good food safety. Plus, almost all of the food we serve is vegan. There is much less risk of food borne illness when you aren't dealing with meat/dairy. Probably at least half of the people that volunteer with us have some form of professional kitchen experience, and have been trained in proper food safety protocol. The fact that we're all really passionate about what we're doing, and are there because we actually care ensures that we all make a strong effort to do things in a sanitary way.
"Nobody has ever gotten sick" is a terrible argument.
There are probably tens of thousands of restaurants in the country where nobody has ever gotten food poisoning after people eat there... but that doesn't mean that they can ignore the rules.
Why is getting a permit and following the proper proceedings that impossible?
I find it hard to believe that there isn't a single member of your group that isn't the member of a church, or has a job, where they would allow you to use a parking lot or something.
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Varece
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Bat_Avenger posted:
lol .. free food is a right. I want my free food.
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AlsoFaromir
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Chogram posted:
AlsoFaromir posted:
-Accident- posted:
I thought you had to have a permit to give out food to people?
I agree that it's bureaucratic and probably unnecessary, but who's to say you are practicing good food safety techniques, if you're not being inspected from time to time?
Currently I believe the law only requires permits if you are selling food.
I think the fact that no one ever gets sick from the food is pretty good support for the fact that we're practicing good food safety. Plus, almost all of the food we serve is vegan. There is much less risk of food borne illness when you aren't dealing with meat/dairy. Probably at least half of the people that volunteer with us have some form of professional kitchen experience, and have been trained in proper food safety protocol. The fact that we're all really passionate about what we're doing, and are there because we actually care ensures that we all make a strong effort to do things in a sanitary way.
"Nobody has ever gotten sick" is a terrible argument.
There are probably tens of thousands of restaurants in the country where nobody has ever gotten food poisoning after people eat there... but that doesn't mean that they can ignore the rules.
Why is getting a permit and following the proper proceedings that impossible?
I find it hard to believe that there isn't a single member of your group that isn't the member of a church, or has a job, where they would allow you to use a parking lot or something.
Sure, lots of restaurants haven't made anyone sick, but they're selling food. We're sharing food with people because we care about them. If you have a picnic in a local park and invite your friends and family, should your cooking facilities have to be inspected? Should you have to apply for a permit for the location(which you might be denied) and take food safety classes?
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-Accident-
Title: Waiting to happen
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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please don't get me wrong, I love that y'all are doing this, and I don't think you deserve to get hassled for it.
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Chogram
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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AlsoFaromir posted:
Snip
So you think that anybody should just be able to set up a table and start passing out free food without any regulations at all?
Your organization is obviously perfect and benevolent. But what stops somebody from setting up a table, without a permit, and 1500 homeless
people get sick of food poisoning.
There is no way to trace it, no way to hold anybody accountable.
Permits are almost always about accountability and liability and never about "OMG DON'T SERVE THE HOMELESS!!!"
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AlsoFaromir
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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Chogram posted:
AlsoFaromir posted:
Snip
So you think that anybody should just be able to set up a table and start passing out free food without any regulations at all?
That's how its been up til now and there haven't been any problems, so yes, absolutely.
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combat_mage_sc
Title: Hi. My name is Combat and i'm an alcoholic.
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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hunt the homeless
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Kordirn
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Subject:
Philadelphia is effectively banning public feeding of the homeless.
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AlsoFaromir posted:
Chogram posted:
AlsoFaromir posted:
Snip
So you think that anybody should just be able to set up a table and start passing out free food without any regulations at all?
That's how its been up til now and there haven't been any problems, so yes, absolutely.
If your neighbor wants to bring you brownies they better damn well have a permit. What if I get food poisoning?!!?!??!?!?!>??!?
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me for mod! 
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I God of miself.