Ordal
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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and if it's happened before wouldn't that mean that eventually light (or something) can escape a black hole?
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Cao_Ren
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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All current scientific observations and evidence show the shape of the universe to be flat. This means that it won't collapse. The universe will just keep expanding. The rate of expansion will be determined by the amount (or absence) of dark energy.
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Cao_Ren
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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As for something escaping black holes, Stephen Hawking is known for his hypothesis that black holes evaporate over time due to principles of quantum mechanics.
In the quantum universe, virtual particles spontaneously appear everywhere; matching particles and anti-particles pop into space side by side, are attracted to each other, and then immediately annihilate each other. When this happens next to the event horizon of a black hole, some of the gravitational energy from the gravity well pulls the particle and anti-particle apart before they annihilate. One falls into the black hole and the other spins off into space. The energy used in this process has a negative effect on the black hole and it "evaporates" by a tiny bit.
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Ordal
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Cool thanks.
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Caledric
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Cao_Ren posted:
All current scientific observations and evidence show the shape of the universe to be flat. This means that it won't collapse. The universe will just keep expanding. The rate of expansion will be determined by the amount (or absence) of dark energy.
Ummmm where did you learn that the universe is flat? In HS and college I was taught that it was definitely 3 dimensional. If it was flat we wouldn't see all the stars in the sky... it would just be a line of "lights"
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Cao_Ren
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Caledric posted:
Cao_Ren posted:
All current scientific observations and evidence show the shape of the universe to be flat. This means that it won't collapse. The universe will just keep expanding. The rate of expansion will be determined by the amount (or absence) of dark energy.
Ummmm where did you learn that the universe is flat? In HS and college I was taught that it was definitely 3 dimensional. If it was flat we wouldn't see all the stars in the sky... it would just be a line of "lights"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_Universe#Possible_local_geometries
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Dark_EternalFF
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Cao_Ren posted:
As for something escaping black holes, Stephen Hawking is known for his hypothesis that black holes evaporate over time due to principles of quantum mechanics.
In the quantum universe, virtual particles spontaneously appear everywhere; matching particles and anti-particles pop into space side by side, are attracted to each other, and then immediately annihilate each other. When this happens next to the event horizon of a black hole, some of the gravitational energy from the gravity well pulls the particle and anti-particle apart before they annihilate. One falls into the black hole and the other spins off into space. The energy used in this process has a negative effect on the black hole and it "evaporates" by a tiny bit.
Hawking radiation, right?
I thought that the rate of the universe's expansion was slowing, however. Which 'ultimate fate of the universe' is more accepted - it's eventual heat death, or a 'recollapsing' in on itself and a repeat of the Big Bang?
On a side note, what most fascinates me about the universe is the concept of 'nothing'. Space isn't exactly nothing, it still exists, but what's beyond that line where the edge of the universe is, if the universe contains everything? What is the universe expanding into?
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Cao_Ren
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Dark_EternalFF posted:
Cao_Ren posted:
As for something escaping black holes, Stephen Hawking is known for his hypothesis that black holes evaporate over time due to principles of quantum mechanics.
In the quantum universe, virtual particles spontaneously appear everywhere; matching particles and anti-particles pop into space side by side, are attracted to each other, and then immediately annihilate each other. When this happens next to the event horizon of a black hole, some of the gravitational energy from the gravity well pulls the particle and anti-particle apart before they annihilate. One falls into the black hole and the other spins off into space. The energy used in this process has a negative effect on the black hole and it "evaporates" by a tiny bit.
Hawking radiation, right?
I thought that the rate of the universe's expansion was slowing, however. Which 'ultimate fate of the universe' is more accepted - it's eventual heat death, or a 'recollapsing' in on itself and a repeat of the Big Bang?
On a side note, what most fascinates me about the universe is the concept of 'nothing'. Space isn't exactly nothing, it still exists, but what's beyond that line where the edge of the universe is, if the universe contains everything? What is the universe expanding into?
Yeah, that's Hawking radiation.
No, the current expansion rate of the universe is increasing. The idea of the universe re-collapsing is no longer accepted. A collapse pertains to the shape of the universe being closed- and this has been ruled out. Only two other shapes are left: open and flat. Flat is the most likely shape, as shown by current evidence. However, there is also the possibility of the universe being open- but so close to flat that it may as well be flat. In both cases, the universe will keep expanding. Things get tricky if you factor dark energy into the equation though. Without dark energy in a flat universe, the expansion will eventually slow down. With dark energy, it will actually keep speeding up, as the force of gravity will lose its grip on matter as the dark energy keeps pushing matter away from all other matter. So the ultimate fate of the universe will be heat-death or a "big rip". Of course, another big bang could happen. Big bangs could happen all over and there could be a whole bunch of universes.....
Nothing is confusing as hell. Nothing is a boiling mass of virtual particles appearing and annihilating. Quantum mechanics is a rough subject.
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silvadel
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Actually it could very well end in a big rip which is a lot different than simply heat death through expansion....
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Reapist
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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The universe is flat! The universe is flat!
Sounds familiar huh? And, it did say possible local geometry. The universe is not flat, but it's easier to do calculations if though of this way. It's easier to envision the fabric and wrinkles. If you believe all that stuff. I contend that time and space are linear.
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Cao_Ren
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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An example of the big rip:
2 trillion years from now, all of the galaxies in our local group will have merged into one large galaxy. All other galaxies will be moving away from our super-galaxy faster than the speed of light. At this point, there will be no possible interaction with those other galaxies. A civilization advanced enough to observe the universe at this point will think that their galaxy is all there is in the universe.
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Cao_Ren
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Reapist posted:
The universe is flat! The universe is flat!
Sounds familiar huh? And, it did say possible local geometry. The universe is not flat, but it's easier to do calculations if though of this way. It's easier to envision the fabric and wrinkles. If you believe all that stuff. I contend that time and space are linear.
It's good to know that you're smarter than Einstein. Gravitational lensing is a fluke. I'll defer to you on all matter of physics now. 
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JD_HOGG
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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We know all this is true because of our vast number of years of experience watching the universe.
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Reapist
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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So Cao, you think Einstein is right because he was smart? And do you think he was always right? Einstein would not have respected anyone that blindly accepted his word at face value. And, he was wrong about a lot of things and proved years later that he was wrong.
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Irish_Mickey
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Reapist posted:
So Cao, you think Einstein is right because he was smart? And do you think he was always right? Einstein would not have respected anyone that blindly accepted his word at face value. And, he was wrong about a lot of things and proved years later that he was wrong.
PA
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Reapist
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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LOL, don't make me laugh so hard when I'm eating soup.
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Cao_Ren
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Reapist posted:
So Cao, you think Einstein is right because he was smart? And do you think he was always right? Einstein would not have respected anyone that blindly accepted his word at face value. And, he was wrong about a lot of things and proved years later that he was wrong.
Blindly? I've studied physics. How about you?
Not to mention that the subject I mentioned, gravitational lensing, was postulated by Einstein as something that he thought would never be demonstrated.
It has since been demonstrated many years after his death.
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Reapist
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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I'm sorry, I never studied physics and since you have you obviously know much more than I ever could. I'm so sorry to have offended you such. I obviously cannot think for myself. I will now elevate you to the same level as the substitute teacher that has more knowledge in arguments than anyone here.
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Cao_Ren
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Reapist posted:
I'm sorry, I never studied physics and since you have you obviously know much more than I ever could. I'm so sorry to have offended you such. I obviously cannot think for myself. I will now elevate you to the same level as the substitute teacher that has more knowledge in arguments than anyone here.
LOL. We're both armchair quarterbacks, and you know it.
My point is you can't just throw out a cornerstone of modern physics without any basis. If you have evidence to the contrary, by all means, write your paper and claim your Nobel prize. Make sure you post pics.
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Caledric
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Cao_Ren posted:
Blindly? I've studied physics. How about you?
Isn't it a requirement for everyone to take Physics in HS and College? I know I didn't have a choice in the matter.
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Reapist
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Caledric posted:
Cao_Ren posted:
Blindly? I've studied physics. How about you?
Isn't it a requirement for everyone to take Physics in HS and College? I know I didn't have a choice in the matter.
Well OK, I had physics in the 9th grade. But to me that doesn't really count. Never had it in college. Sad, I really enjoy physics. And of things mechanical it seems I have a natural understanding. But Time travel, warping time and space, 2 dimensional space, all sound fishy to me.
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Cao_Ren
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If the universe completely collapses wouldn't that form a black hole?
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Caledric posted:
Cao_Ren posted:
Blindly? I've studied physics. How about you?
Isn't it a requirement for everyone to take Physics in HS and College? I know I didn't have a choice in the matter.
Not for my schools. I took biology, zoology, and 3 years of chemistry in high school. I took astronomy, geology, and astrophysics in college.
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