Fist_de_Yuma posted:

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To vote they used names of dead and live people and were offered ballots anyway.

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Scarne posted:

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Fist_de_Yuma posted:

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To vote they used names of dead and live people and were offered ballots anyway.

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Yes, but that effectively doesn't happen the the real world; it pretty much only happens when people are trying to prove it can happen. Once in a while you get a person who votes for a recently dead relative who they just knew how they wanted to vote in the next election, but that is pretty much it. The penalties for getting caught doing this are too harsh to risk really trying to do this enough in an organized manner to influence an election.

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Fist_de_Yuma posted:

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Scarne posted:

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Fist_de_Yuma posted:

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To vote they used names of dead and live people and were offered ballots anyway.

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Yes, but that effectively doesn't happen the the real world; it pretty much only happens when people are trying to prove it can happen. Once in a while you get a person who votes for a recently dead relative who they just knew how they wanted to vote in the next election, but that is pretty much it. The penalties for getting caught doing this are too harsh to risk really trying to do this enough in an organized manner to influence an election.

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You know this because....? The fact that many places have posted more votes than they have people should tell you something; that is of you are not someone who just reads the talking points and have no idea how the real world works.

You really think we can depend on the honesty of Democrats and Republicans not to take advantage if offered? Why would the Democrats spend millions to elect a minor offical; who's only real job is to oversee elections?

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Ptilk posted:

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http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/james-okeefe-takes-voter-id-clown-show-verm

So it seems James O'Keefe has gone to Vermont and made a stupid video. It's stupid because it does what James O'Keefe always tries to do -- exaggerates a problem in order to shame public officials into accepting his point of view. Only the only one who should be shamed is O'Keefe.

Just as he did in New Hampshire, he sent in "undercover" people with video cameras to ask for ballots in the name of voters, living and dead. In each case on the video, O'Keefe's minions ask whether they need to show ID, and in each case, poll workers tell them they don't.

One of the more interesting anomalies on the video are the dates. The first subject, "Mohamud" is dated March 9, 2009. The "John Adams" video is dated February 27, 2012, as is "Adam Berger." "Travis Houle" is dated March 8, 2009. "Evan Bean" is March 8, 2009. The date of the Vermont primary was March 7, 2012. None of these videos have that date. The 2009-2010 Vermont elections calendar does not have any elections scheduled for March 8-9, 2009, nor was anything scheduled for February 27, 2012. There was a very close mayoral election in Burlington, VT on March 3, 2009, which went to an instant runoff where a progressive was elected over the Republican candidate, knocking the Democrat out of the race altogether. But why would video referring to a city race be dated March 9th when the election was March 3rd? The ballots cast on March 3rd were used in the instant runoff voting, so there wasn't a new vote on the 8th or 9th.

Vermont does, however, permit voter registration until five days before the election. In the case of "John Adams" and "Adam Berger", it's possible they were requesting voter registration forms, which they would not need ID to request, but would need ID to submit.

In Vermont, a valid photo ID is required when one registers to vote. Applicants are also required to take the "Voter's Oath", which must be certified by an appropriate official before the registration is valid. Once those requirements are met, the voter's name is entered on the rolls.

All of this begs the question: Where were these videos filmed and for what elections? It would appear they weren't even filmed in Vermont! And if they were filmed in Vermont on those days and actual ballots were requested, then O'Keefe forgot about this:

While one can indeed register to vote (in most places) without showing an ID via third party, what O'Keefe fails to mention in his video, is that the federal Help America Vote Act (HAVA) of 2002 already requires those who do not register in person to provide ID when voting for the first time at the polling place. In other words, if "Thomas Brady" registers to vote via the registration forms received via O'Keefe's video, he would be required, by federal law, to show an ID the first time he votes in person at the polling place.

He also evidently ignored this as he continues to push Voter ID laws with his highly suspect videos:

The only type of voter fraud which could possibly be deterred by such measures would be in-person, polling place impersonation, which is so rare that even George W. Bush's own Dept. of Justice was unable to find even a single instance of it, out of hundreds of millions of votes cast across the nation during the years from 2002 to 2005, when they placed unprecedented resources into ferreting out such instances of voter fraud.

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reese posted:

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And this is when Fist slinks away from the thread...

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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:

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reese posted:

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And this is when Fist slinks away from the thread...

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No, this is when Fist picks a noobs attempt at a troll, quotes him, and responds something about lies or slander and decries liberal debate tactics.

When people start calling for his response after seeing him appear in the thread after the pwning is when he slinks away.

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Fist_de_Yuma posted:

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You know this because....? The fact that many places have posted more votes than they have people should tell you something; that is of you are not someone who just reads the talking points and have no idea how the real world works.

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Fist_de_Yuma posted:

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m/t

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reesescups posted:

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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:

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reese posted:

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And this is when Fist slinks away from the thread...

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No, this is when Fist picks a noobs attempt at a troll, quotes him, and responds something about lies or slander and decries liberal debate tactics.

When people start calling for his response after seeing him appear in the thread after the pwning is when he slinks away.

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Might be right...

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Fist_de_Yuma posted:

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I would love to see that the liberals say about this

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Fist_de_Yuma posted:

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Scarne posted:

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Fist_de_Yuma posted:

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To vote they used names of dead and live people and were offered ballots anyway.

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Yes, but that effectively doesn't happen the the real world; it pretty much only happens when people are trying to prove it can happen. Once in a while you get a person who votes for a recently dead relative who they just knew how they wanted to vote in the next election, but that is pretty much it. The penalties for getting caught doing this are too harsh to risk really trying to do this enough in an organized manner to influence an election.

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You know this because....?

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