Blue_arrow
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Obama: $2.50 a Gallon Gas Is a Lie
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/13/obama-2-50-a-gallon-gas-is-a-lie
Obama's glass is not half full, it's comply empty
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Scarne
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Barring a major strengthening of the USD, he is correct.
Well, there is another alternative of using tax dollars as a subsidy to artificially push gas to $2.50, but I doubt you are in support of that solution. 
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Kjarhall
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He's correct.
Milk, bread, bottled water, etc. is up too. You probably aren't going to see them for 2005 prices again either. HTH 
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Moe_Nox
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You mean the Jan 2009 prices, when Obama took office.
http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=f&Period=72&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G
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the_great_ontex
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I never felt more awesome as I did when milk was only $1.87/gallon
Now it is lucky to get slim milk at $2.99 
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Moe_Nox
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But you're making more money in Cali, so prices being twice as much is ok, right? 
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Yukishiro1
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Poll posted:
As to the question of whether a president "can do a lot to control gas prices," theNew York Times/CBS News poll found that 54% of Americans believe they can and 36% saying they can't.
We're doomed.
Also, the comments on that site are a riot. Tons of morons who seem to really believe that gas would go down to $2.50 tomorrow if Obama just waved his pen. 
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the_great_ontex
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Actually food in general is cheaper here. The only thing noticeable is rent cost. Going from a 500/month to 1200/month is considerable
The cost of the life style is more costly too. People here are much less practical and are more materialistic and judgey
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Yukishiro1
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That's SoCal for you.
Also, prices were low in 2009 because we were in the middle of a massive economic meltdown. If we destroyed the economy again we could probably have low gas prices. Maybe that will be the Republican 2012 platform? "Destroy the economy, cheap gas for all!!!11"
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the_great_ontex
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I think majority of the people I meet here are in mountains of debt in some way or form. In my apartment, which is not crappy but it isn't really good, there's entire parking lots of Mercedes and brand new Corvettes, Audis etc. I probably make double the amount other people do who live there, too, and even I couldn't really afford those without having to take out some sort of loan
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Yukishiro1
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Where in SoCal are you?
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the_great_ontex
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I live practically right on the edge of Irvine/Lake Forest/Mission Viejo area in Orange County
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Bonzoboy1
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Obama says increased drilling won't work because OPEC sets oil prices but it the increase is being driven by speculation would a projected increase in supply lower prices?
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Moe_Nox
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Intex you were raised N.C. weren't you? Which means you most likely have an enormous amount of practicability to you. Don't lose that.
Cali can be a good move for some, but I was ready to leave after 6 months of my 18 month stay.
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Yukishiro1
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Obama says increased drilling won't work because OPEC sets oil prices but it the increase is being driven by speculation would a projected increase in supply lower prices?
Domestic oil drilling is at historically high levels. 
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Yukishiro1
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the_great_ontex posted:
I live practically right on the edge of Irvine/Lake Forest/Mission Viejo area in Orange County
Yeah well that is like the SoCal of SoCal. If they mapped vapid douchebaggery that would be ground zero.
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Scarne
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Obama: $2.50 a Gallon Gas Is a Lie
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Obama says increased drilling won't work because OPEC sets oil prices but it the increase is being driven by speculation would a projected increase in supply lower prices?
The US can't drill enough additional sweet light crude cheaply enough to push the cost of gasoline more than a few pennies.
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GrilledCheez
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wages down, inflation up, dems in power.
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the_great_ontex
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Moe_Nox posted:
Intex you were raised N.C. weren't you? Which means you most likely have an enormous amount of practicability to you. Don't lose that.
Cali can be a good move for some, but I was ready to leave after 6 months of my 18 month stay.
Yup, I've lived in NC for 25 years (so my entire life, lol)
I wouldn't doubt it about being ground zero in douchebaggery. There's an enormous amount of BMWs here
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Yukishiro1
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SoCal has good parts about it but where you are sorta maximizes the bad parts. If you go just 20 miles in any direction you will find less douchebaggery.
Even with all the bad it's still better than 90% of America though. 
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Blue_arrow
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Obama: $2.50 a Gallon Gas Is a Lie
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waved his pen...........
http://www.scribd.com/jaykjz9124/d/78897808-Under-OBAMA-Oil-and-Gas-Production-on-Federal-Land-is-Down-40
under Obama, there were the fewest onshore oil and gasleases issued since 1984.
³It¶s not that Obama is devoid of responsibility,´ said the Heritage report, authored by Rob Bluey.³His administration oversees oil and gas production on federal lands by issuing leases. But whenmeasuring oil and gas production in areas under Obama¶s jurisdiction, the numbers tell a differentstory.´
The House report also said Obama has had only one offshore lease sale in 2011, and that was in December, ³narrowly´ avoiding making 2011 the first year without an offshore leasesale since 1953.
And oil and natural gas production on federal lands has plummeted by more than 40 percentcompared to just 10 years ago.
on top of it Obama Rejects Keystone LX Pipeline and he takes no responsibility for gas national average of $3.80, mean wile Obama's wind, solar, battery powred cars, are complete failure to lower the price of fuel
but give me 4 more years and i will fix it all
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Yukishiro1
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I realize you are too stupid to engage in real conversation but there's a reason they're using cherrypicked numbers. Why do you think they're looking at oil production compared to 10 years ago instead of compared to 3 years ago if their point is to attack Obama? Hint: because the numbers for three years ago don't show so much of a difference.
There have also been fewer lease applications. The cheap easy to get oil on federal lands is mostly already leased out and being pumped. Of course there are going to be less new leases because there are more existing leases. Good lord some of you partisans will eat up anything.
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Mastara
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Prices being twice as high is never ok. Regardless of where you live :/
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Scarne
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Blue_arrow posted:
on top of it Obama Rejects Keystone LX Pipeline and he takes no responsibility for gas national average of $3.80, mean wile Obama's wind, solar, battery powred cars, are complete failure to lower the price of fuel
The Keystone XL pipeline will have nothing to do with the price of gasoline as the oil it will carry is too "heavy" to make gasoline cheaply from.
Plus, the purpose of the Keystone XL pipeline is to get the oil to the Gulf refineries rather than the Midwest refineries so the oil can be shipped out of the US/Canada. This should cause a bit of increase in US oil prices, not a decrease.
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Obama: $2.50 a Gallon Gas Is a Lie
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Poll posted:
As to the question of whether a president "can do a lot to control gas prices," theNew York Times/CBS News poll found that 54% of Americans believe they can and 36% saying they can't.
We're doomed.
Also, the comments on that site are a riot. Tons of morons who seem to really believe that gas would go down to $2.50 tomorrow if Obama just waved his pen.
Are you sure you don't want to enforce voter ID and limit some of these voters?
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IMHO
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Blue_arrow posted:
Newt will make moon bases
and FREE GAS
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theredkay1
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Oil/gas production on federal lands is down because almost all of it is offshore and offshore production in the US is tapped out and has been for many years. Oil production on land was actually up 4% last year.
Oil production on federal lands in 2011 was up 11% from 2008. 
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Akza
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Yukishiro1 posted:
That's SoCal for you.
Also, prices were low in 2009 because we were in the middle of a massive economic meltdown. If we destroyed the economy again we could probably have low gas prices. Maybe that will be the Republican 2012 platform? "Destroy the economy, cheap gas for all!!!11"
I already thought that's what their platform was.
1. Cut all federal spending except for their war buddies
2. Cut all education, non-creationism sciences, social welfare programs
3. ....
4. Profit???
Only a Republican can wish for things to go back to 2009 levels.
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Ashmaele
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The cake is also a lie.
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Brother_Tempus
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4 1964 US quarter would have bought you 3 gallons of gas in 1964n
those same 4 coins would buy you 7 gallons of gas today
Gas is dirt cheap eve. With the Obama administration annoying the Middle East. It is our acceptance if allowing government to mandate the use of paper money backed by nothing that is the problem.
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Brother_Tempus posted:
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD!!!!!!!! 
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Yukishiro1
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theredkay1 posted:
Oil production on federal lands in 2011 was up 11% from 2008.
Do you have a link for that?
I would be SHOCKED the heritage foundation would lie through its teeth for partisan gain. SHOCKED I tell you!
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Poll posted:
As to the question of whether a president "can do a lot to control gas prices," theNew York Times/CBS News poll found that 54% of Americans believe they can and 36% saying they can't.
We're doomed.
Also, the comments on that site are a riot. Tons of morons who seem to really believe that gas would go down to $2.50 tomorrow if Obama just waved his pen.
Yep, thank you democrats and the media for pounding that in these idiots heads during 8 years of Bush
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SoBaKi
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Grymlo posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
Poll posted:
As to the question of whether a president "can do a lot to control gas prices," theNew York Times/CBS News poll found that 54% of Americans believe they can and 36% saying they can't.
We're doomed.
Also, the comments on that site are a riot. Tons of morons who seem to really believe that gas would go down to $2.50 tomorrow if Obama just waved his pen.
Yep, thank you democrats and the media for pounding that in these idiots heads during 8 years of Bush
The big difference, you effing moron, is that bush DID go into Iraq. Like that would have NOTHING to do with obstructing the flow of oil.
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Ashmaele
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Brother_Tempus posted:
4 1964 US quarter would have bought you 3 gallons of gas in 1964n
those same 4 coins would buy you 7 gallons of gas today
Gas is dirt cheap eve. With the Obama administration annoying the Middle East. It is our acceptance if allowing government to mandate the use of paper money backed by nothing that is the problem.
How much non-fiat money would it take for you to stop posting forever?
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Grymlo
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SoBaKi posted:
Grymlo posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
[quote=Poll]As to the question of whether a president "can do a lot to control gas prices," theNew York Times/CBS News poll found that 54% of Americans believe they can and 36% saying they can't.
We're doomed.
Also, the comments on that site are a riot. Tons of morons who seem to really believe that gas would go down to $2.50 tomorrow if Obama just waved his pen.
Yep, thank you democrats and the media for pounding that in these idiots heads during 8 years of Bush
The big difference, you effing moron, is that bush DID go into Iraq. Like that would have NOTHING to do with obstructing the flow of oil.[/quote]
Yeah that excuse is all you dumbasses have. I believe gas was under 2 bucks when Bush left office.
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Ashmaele
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Grymlo posted:
I believe gas was under 2 bucks when Bush left office.
Is this supposed to be a serious point?
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Cawlin
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The situation is that the market is being gamed to the point that the laws of supply and demand no longer apply. This is the result of foolish trade and economic policy as well as corporate ownership of the government (i.e. fascism).
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Ashmaele
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Cawlin posted:
The situation is that the market is being gamed to the point that the laws of supply and demand no longer apply. This is the result of foolish trade and economic policy as well as corporate ownership of the government (i.e. fascism).
This point has been made here before, I think the last time I heard it was when gas was $4 a gallon a few years ago. Of course oil was $150 a barrel then as well.
I'm not really sure what to do about it, though. Someone suggested passing a law which required everyone who "bought" oil or gasoline on the market to physically take possession of it, which would essentially eliminate trade in those commodities. Is this a workable solution? I honestly do not know what to do about it.
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theredkay1
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Yukishiro1 posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Oil production on federal lands in 2011 was up 11% from 2008.
Do you have a link for that?
I would be SHOCKED the heritage foundation would lie through its teeth for partisan gain. SHOCKED I tell you!
I dont think they lied as much as they were very careful in the dates they selected. Production jumped in 2009, jumped again in 2010 and fell in 2011 but still remained higher than 2008. My source was internal company report that sits in my cabinet but I know we pull from Dept of the Interior. Cant find a good link but the DOI or the EIA must have this info out there somewhere.
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Grymlo posted:
I believe gas was under 2 bucks when Bush left office.
not sure if srs
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Yukishiro1
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theredkay1 posted:
I dont think they lied as much as they were very careful in the dates they selected.
It's lying through statistics. They quote the 40% decrease over 10 years and then rant about how Obama isn't giving out enough land permits as if that's causing the decrease. If in fact production is up 11% on land that qualifies as lying in my book based on how they put their statistics and accusations together.
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Ashmaele posted:
Cawlin posted:
The situation is that the market is being gamed to the point that the laws of supply and demand no longer apply. This is the result of foolish trade and economic policy as well as corporate ownership of the government (i.e. fascism).
This point has been made here before, I think the last time I heard it was when gas was $4 a gallon a few years ago. Of course oil was $150 a barrel then as well.
I'm not really sure what to do about it, though. Someone suggested passing a law which required everyone who "bought" oil or gasoline on the market to physically take possession of it, which would essentially eliminate trade in those commodities. Is this a workable solution? I honestly do not know what to do about it.
I agree and understand that it is a complex situation. I also do not know enough about how to moderate the forces at work. I know that military intervention creates a worse situation in the long run, but this crap where companies deliberately halt or slow production when another area increases production, solely to keep artificially high prices in place or to elevate prices is bullsiht.
If this were some commodity like timber for example, well nobody would own ALL the timber so if one supplier wanted to choke the market, someone would go and cut some more timber elsewhere and that would be that. The issue is collusion amongst the oil companies in this regard as well as the intervention of the federal government on behalf of those companies and in the name of their interests, at the expense of the free market.
Honestly, as much as you guys hate to deal with PaulG, Aerlinthian, and BT's arguments, the fact of the matter is what's going on with the oil market is a result of the siht they rail against all the time.
In the rare earth thread, someone said that (I'm paraphrasing) "if there's profit in mining rare earth minerals, someone will do it", but the truth is that unless there is a MASSIVE profit, guaranteed by fascist policy to eradicate true market competition, nobody will do it. That's some of the same sort of thing going on here.
As a general statement about big business too, it's no longer about making "a profit", it's about having a guaranteed massive profit and protection from competition through legislation and government intervention. This is not a free market.
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Everything is the presidents fault. Thats part of being the leader.
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http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/is-obama-causing-gas-prices-to-rise-by-restricting-oil-drilling/
Domestic oil production down since Obama took office
More reliance on foreign oil since Obama took office
“The numbers don’t lie—it’s clear that this Administration is taking U.S. energy policy in exactly in the wrong direction
delays are costing the economy dearly. The report says the stalled projects cost the economy $1.1 trillion in economic activity last year and would have provided 1.9 million jobs in each year of construction
The report said that once constructed, the projects would have supplied some 791,000 jobs per year over 20 years and added $3.4 trillion to the GDP, and that’s without taking into account lower energy prices that could result from the completed projects
it shows is that we are bidding on foreign oil, which China, India and everyone else is also bidding on. Do you know what happens when lots of people want to buy the same thing? The price of that thing goes up. And that’s exactly what we are seeing. The only way to make gas prices go down is by increasing our own supply.
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Holy shit blew arrow breaking out the wintery knight heat game changer yo
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Yukishiro1 posted:
theredkay1 posted:
I dont think they lied as much as they were very careful in the dates they selected.
It's lying through statistics. They quote the 40% decrease over 10 years and then rant about how Obama isn't giving out enough land permits as if that's causing the decrease. If in fact production is up 11% on land that qualifies as lying in my book based on how they put their statistics and accusations together.
This is the best I can find but its only through summer 2011.
Gas
http://www.bsee.gov/uploadedFiles/BSEE/Newsroom/Offshore_Stats_and_Facts/OCS%20GAS%20VS%20OTHER%20-%20GRAPH(1).pdf
Oil
http://www.bsee.gov/uploadedFiles/BSEE/Newsroom/Offshore_Stats_and_Facts/OCS%20OIL%20VS%20OTHER%20-%20GRAPHh(1).pdf
http://www.bsee.gov/BSEE-Newsroom/Offshore-Stats-and-Facts/OCS-Oil-and-Gas-Production.aspx
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Moe_Nox posted:
You mean the Jan 2009 prices, when Obama took office.
http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=f&Period=72&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G
Yes i didn't count the unsustainable blip on the chart because it isn't indicitive of the median. The only thing it's good for is an evasive talking point.
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Ashmaele posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
4 1964 US quarter would have bought you 3 gallons of gas in 1964n
those same 4 coins would buy you 7 gallons of gas today
Gas is dirt cheap eve. With the Obama administration annoying the Middle East. It is our acceptance if allowing government to mandate the use of paper money backed by nothing that is the problem.
How much non-fiat money would it take for you to stop posting forever?
I am sorry if the truth hurts, but don't worry the paper money in your wallet soon will not be able to buy any gas and yet those 4 silver quarters will still buy more gas in the future than it could back then
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Brother_Tempus posted:
4 1964 US quarter would have bought you 3 gallons of gas in 1964n
those same 4 coins would buy you 7 gallons of gas today
Wages and everything would be relative to those prices so it is a meaningless comparison.
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Article in today's Times Picayune
http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/03/obama_administration_sweet_spo.html
Gulf of Mexico back to 'robust' oil production, Obama administration says
Read whatever you will into the article. Both sides seems to have their say.
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Scarne posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
4 1964 US quarter would have bought you 3 gallons of gas in 1964n
those same 4 coins would buy you 7 gallons of gas today
Wages and everything would be relative to those prices so it is a meaningless comparison.
hardly, sound money cannot be distorted like that. Sound money anchors all prices to reality
Wages do not need to increase because over time the slow deflationary pressure exerted by sound money means a person whose wage stays the same over say ten to 15 years can buy more with that same wage at the end of that 10-15 years than at the beginning
US price and wage history back when the dollar was gold and silver proved that.
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What reality? Prices and wages would bounce around as directed by the supply and demand for a pretty metal. What is 'real' about that?
-edit- a jump in demand for shiny things in a country will naturally push down wages and prices.....and this is a good thing in your book?
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Republican see high gas as a problem liberals see it as a solution
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^^ I can agree with that blue
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There is a brain trust in the making! Blue_arrow and Mastboro!!
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Tych2 posted:
There is a brain trust in the making! Blue_arrow and Mastboro!!
- you've got a bunch of algae out here," Obama said at the University of Miami today. "If we can figure out how to make energy out of that, we'll be doing alright.
ill go with the moon base and 2.50 gas
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If you /dismiss one-world conspiracies then I'm sure that this whole thing seems ok and normal.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Yeah well that is like the SoCal of SoCal. If they mapped vapid douchebaggery that would be ground zero.
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theredkay1 posted:
What reality?
Intrinsic value, something paper money does not have,
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Intrinsic value, something paper money does not have,
So? There is no need for money to have an intrinsic value; it is just a medium for exchange.
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Scarne posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Intrinsic value, something paper money does not have,
So? There is no need for money to have an intrinsic value; it is just a medium for exchange.
 He still hasn't figured out that money only has the value people assign to it, no matter what medium it comes in.
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Brother_Tempus posted:
theredkay1 posted:
What reality?
Intrinsic value, something paper money does not have,
So your answer is 'magic'?
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Scarne posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Intrinsic value, something paper money does not have,
So? There is no need for money to have an intrinsic value;
only if you want money that loses its value and in the end be worth nothing. The co sequence would be of course, high prices for everything, like gas
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Brother_Tempus posted:
only if you want money that loses its value and in the end be worth nothing. The co sequence would be of course, high prices for everything, like gas
That is a good thing in general. It incentivizes people to keep on working or investing their money rather than just sitting on it.
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Scarne posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
only if you want money that loses its value and in the end be worth nothing. The co sequence would be of course, high prices for everything, like gas
That is a good thing in general.
Making people poor is never a "good thing"
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Prospector Tampon posted:
Thar's gold in them thar heels!
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Making people poor is never a "good thing"
This doesn't make people poor. And it is good for the overall economy.
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Modest inflation is a good thing. Except if you're a trust fund kiddie I guess. Although if you are a trust fund kiddie and you're all upset about a little inflation you probably need some perspective.
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Energy Secretary Steven Chu’s testimony today before the House Science Committee reveals that he remains thoroughly committed to his comment in 2008 that somehow “we have to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.†When Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI) asked Secretary Chu at the hearing today if he would retract his 2008 statement he refused. This comes just days after Congressman Alan Nunnelee (R-Miss) asked Secretary Chu if it was the Administration’s goal to bring down gas prices. His answer was “noâ€
“Energy Secretary Steven Chu’s refusal to retract his statement in 2008 that their goal is to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe, goes to show that, contrary to President Obama’s phony reelection rhetoric, he and his green team remain just as committed to their aggressive, ongoing war on affordable energy,â€
they want $8 to $9 dollar-a-gallon gas because that is the only way they can force Americans into their dream of a costly green economy.
Again today he called for raising oil and gas taxes, of course failing to mention that these extra costs will just be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices at the pump. He continues to say that drilling is futile using the same false rhetoric that we only have ‘2 percent of the world’s oil’, while ignoring the non-partisan Congressional Research Service which has revealed that America has the largest endowment of oil, gas and coal in the world. Developing these resources and approving projects like the Keystone XL pipeline would do more than anything to bring down gas prices and decrease our dependence on the Middle East. But President Obama and his green team are determined to keep our wealth of resources in the ground
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/44979
Obama refuse to developing these resources and approve projects to drive up prices then blame the oil companies for $4.00 gas, then raising oil and gas taxes becouse they are evil ..then this nut come out and said hey look at me i have a sweet plain....you've got a bunch of algae out here," Obama said at the University of Miami today. "If we can figure out how to make energy out of that, we'll be doing alright
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Blew_arrow posted:
OIL WILL LAST FOREVER.
Actually, not as long as your stupidity will last.
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Inflation increases the value of real things, decreases the long term value of currency.
BT seems insistant that real wealth is found in a pile of paper or a stack of shiny metal.
A bit of inflation can be negated by using your money or metal to build something that you can use to sell at higher prices in the future....a new store, a new production location, an education, etc.....
Im not sure how we would be better off if the country had been piling its gold bars under our beds for the last 200 years. BT thinks this would lead to awesome stuff and a bit of deflation is great for the economy because your pile of gold under your bed will buy you more stuff with deflation.
But deflation causes economic collapse as the incentive to build actual things is decreased. If you give a guy in Sudan the largest pile of shiny shells on earth....is he wealthy? BT says yes b/c he has a giant pile of shiny things. But since he has almost no real stuff in Sudan to trade his shiny shells for he is poor. If you convince him to keep building his shell pile and refuse the temptation to build a store and a farm...he only gets poorer.
Piles of gold are worthless. Piles of money are worthless. They are only good b/c they can give you claims on real productive things. Changing your policy to encourage larger piles of rocks/paper and fewer real production/service investment is the path to economic destruction. The best example of BT's economic policy is the gold deflation of the 1930's that crushed the western economies.
Long story short....moderate inflation is good. BT is confused.
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Scarne posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Making people poor is never a "good thing"
This doesn't make people poor.
One only has to look at the rate of poverty, the number of Americans on foodstamps, the labor participation rate, and the number of Americans on assistance. ... All at record levels, to see how wrong your statement is
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NuEM
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Obama: $2.50 a Gallon Gas Is a Lie
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It also increases global average temperature apparently!
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Brother_Tempus
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theredkay1 posted:
Inflation increases the value of real things, decreases the long term value of currency.
BT seems insistant that real wealth is found in a pile of paper or a stack of shiny metal.
Just the metal, history has shown us through the Continental, The Confederate dollar, and the US Greenbacks, that paper has no value.
From the 1880s till the start if the Fed-created bubble of the 20s, gold and silver ( unlike the are examples I provided ) retained and improved their value
One can see how gold is universally known as money even by socialists is in 1934, when FDR confiscated, not paper money, but gold.
His next act was not to devalue gold, but the paper money held by Americans mandated by FDR in his exchange for his extortion of their gold by 75%
One only has too look at prices since the 1790s when this country started to see that gold has held its value, buying the same amount of good an services ( if not more ) now as it did back then
Go back to just 1971, when goivernment decoupled the dollar from gold, and one can see how the paper dollar buys less now than it did back then
Paper money is a tool govrrnnments and banks use to steal from you, nothing morr
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_Enkidu_
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The only way gas drops to $2.50 a gallon is if everyone buys a nissan leaf. Oil is becomeing more scarce by the day, so demand will only increase the price goig forward. The leaf will lower that demand and push prices down. If we all drove a leaf the price would tank.
Of course, if you drove a leaf you wouldn't even care about the price of gas! 
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Cawlin
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_Enkidu_ posted:
The only way gas drops to $2.50 a gallon is if everyone buys a nissan leaf. Oil is becomeing more scarce by the day, so demand will only increase the price goig forward. The leaf will lower that demand and push prices down. If we all drove a leaf the price would tank.
Of course, if you drove a leaf you wouldn't even care about the price of gas!
While technically this is true that oil is growing more scarce by the day. The REAL truth in practical application is that in the short term, if demand for fuel drops, production will drop in order to keep the price high.
This is where the whole economic motivation behind switching to alternative fuels falls apart. The powers controlling the cost of fossil fuels are not playing by legit rules. They are playing in a gamed system where they've written the rules.
We need to conserve and/or switch to alternative fuels, not for economic reasons, but for reasons of longevity of our species and the planet. Of course those are sort of abstract terms compared to discussing how much of your paycheck you pour into your necessary vehicle every week.
To illustrate the point, if we all drove Leafs, we might be using only 1/10th the gas we used to use, but production of oil and fuel would be decreased so that we were paying 10 times as much for that gas as we pay today... so yes, we'd still care about the price of gas until or unless we change a lot about the way this system has been gamed.
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Friarspam
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Consider that the US gets it's money from the Federal Reserve which charges interest. Instant bill that doesn't have to be.
If money were produced the way the Constitution stated we would eliminate that issue.
The trick is that if you create more cash than you have goods and services to support then you are going to have an inflated dollar.
I don't understand why people cannot see through the used-car salesman scam that is our current system. I mean don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to be able to be allowed to fleece folks in that manner, but that isn't the way it works.
As to the gold standard, it worked because throughout history, gold has been desired. Think of a gold standard as a "hedge" against future losses of purchase power by a dollar. You can trade gold anywhere.
It is very odd that so many "smart" people are fooled by the system of currency that we have in place. It really boggles my mind that they cannot see where the groups that control the Fed and the money supply have an advantageous position for gaining money and influence.
I guess it's easier for people to just kick their brain into neutral and believe that there's nobody out to screw them.
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Blue_arrow
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Gasoline Prices in Europe $8.00 ... so has this sparked any algae fuel production or any alternative fuel to lower the cost of diving...... F no this is what you get
Europeans are mostly poor. So they can't afford all these fancy European cars like BMW's and Range Rovers. This is what most Europeans are driving.
http://www.farrellworlds.com/Thursday_files/European%20Car.jpg
obama is full of crap like most of you and thats what you will be diving if anything at all
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theredkay1
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Brother_Tempus posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Inflation increases the value of real things, decreases the long term value of currency.
BT seems insistant that real wealth is found in a pile of paper or a stack of shiny metal.
Just the metal, history has shown .... that paper has no value.
I clipped out the rest of your ramble b/c it is all fairly meaningless. Valuing your currency more than the real things you can create with that currency is destructive. You keep missing this point.
Currency is a way to trade and exchange. We become richer by trading and exchanging things. I trade my labor for currency and then can use that currency to get other real things. Inflation gives incentive to create more real things. Gold and the inevitable deflation creates disincentives to create things.
Gold deflation blows up credit channels as prices and wages decline but your fixed debt payments remain the same. If you blow up the demand for loans, you blow up the ability to save and therefore the only mechanism by which we build the future economy.
There is a reason that the economy implodes every time there is deflation or the threat of it. You would like to see implosions as a regular thing.
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Brother_Tempus
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theredkay1 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Inflation increases the value of real things, decreases the long term value of currency.
BT seems insistant that real wealth is found in a pile of paper or a stack of shiny metal.
Just the metal, history has shown .... that paper has no value.
I clipped out the rest of your ramble b/c it is all fairly meaningless.
no, you clipped out the rest because it proivided historical evidence that I am right in pointng out the real cause of high gas prices [ worthless paper money]
You have shown here that you cannot disprove the evidence I presented and instead erected a strawman showing everyone how ignorant you are about the subject since you chickened out trying to disprove the facts, dates, and figures I provided
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theredkay1
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Friarspam posted:
As to the gold standard, it worked because throughout history, gold has been desired. Think of a gold standard as a "hedge" against future losses of purchase power by a dollar. You can trade gold anywhere.
The gold standard period was filled with constant recessions and capped by the Great Depression. The gold standard and the resulting deflation caused by banks (and individuals) desire to hoard gold was the primary cause of teh Great Depression. Im not sure what your criteria is for 'it worked'. It was a pretty obvious error.
An increase in demand for gold (jewelry, industrial) or a decrease in supply will cause the value gold to jump. When gold jumps, the price of everything falls in terms of gold. Falling prices and falling wages always brings a recession.
People resist wage cuts (both labor and management) and you end up with a bunch of layoffs to cut labor costs. So gold has caused large unemployment.
The drop in product prices will hurt everyone with debt since the debt payment stays the same but your income falls. So gold brings a bunch of bankruptcies.
As gold keeps climbing it becomes more valuable to sit on your pile of gold than to use it to build something, especially if that new something will return falling revenues.
This is the history of the gold standard.
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Brother_Tempus
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theredkay1 posted:
Friarspam posted:
As to the gold standard, it worked because throughout history, gold has been desired. Think of a gold standard as a "hedge" against future losses of purchase power by a dollar. You can trade gold anywhere.
The gold standard period was filled with constant
growth and stability, GDP growth from the 1880s to 1920s was a steady 4-5%, something we havent seen with the paper US dollar
The busts during the time period I identified were caused not by gold but by the sane culprits who created the busts and booms post-1934, central banks and governments implementing flawed monetary policies
Examples :
Panic of 1882-85 was a railroad bubble created by government much like the housing bubble that the government created last decade
Panic of 1893 was another government fueled railroad bubble coupled with the flawed Sherman Silver Act which allowed government to distort the free market value of silver
Panic of 1907 was caused by the actions of Treasury Secretary Leslie Shaw who overstepped his limitations and tried to make the Treasury Department act like a central bank, something he had no authority to do. He illegally expanded the money supply in 05 and 06. One only has to read Senator LaFollete's [ he was a big progressive ] speech during the passage of the Aldridge Bill as he disects and lays out through evidence how the Treasury casused the Panic of 1907 and for what purpose
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