Brother_Tempus
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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It seems progressives, Socialists, and other statists are hoping that the world has forgotten the immortality of state-sponsored eugenics policies of 60 years ago ...
This gentleman has the right to speak his mind, but his opinions and ideas should be outright discredited should he seek to incorporate this evil in to government policy
Government mandated eugenics is a crime and those in positions of power who advocate such policies should be stripped of their office immediately
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/03/how-engineering-the-human-body-could-combat-climate-change/253981/
One of the more sickening parts of this interview
"In your paper you argue that some of the initial opposition to these solutions is rooted in a particular kind of status quo bias. Can you explain what you mean by that?
Liao: Sure. Take having smaller children for example. People might resist this idea because they might think that there is some sort of optimal---the average height in a given society, say. But, I think it's worth remembering how fluid human traits like height are. A hundred years ago people were much shorter on average, and there was nothing wrong with them medically. And so, if people are resistant to the idea of engineering humans to be smaller because of some notion of an optimal height, they might be operating from a status quo bias."
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paulg_68
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Eugenics has unfairly been given a bad name by people who had no real interest in eugenics.
Humanity would be well served by a voluntary eugenics program.
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Eternal_Midnight
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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I read the same article you did, but I read the lead author repeatedly saying that they didn't advocate for any particular action, especially those mandated by a central authority.
Article posted:
The lead author of the paper, S. Matthew Liao, is a professor of philosophy and bioethics at New York University. Liao is keen to point out that the paper is not meant to advocate for any particular human modifications, or even human engineering generally; rather, it is only meant to introduce human engineering as one possible, partial solution to climate change. He also emphasized the voluntary nature of the proposed modifications. Neither Liao or his co-authors, Anders Sandberg and Rebecca Roache of Oxford, approve of any coercive human engineering; they favor modifications borne of individual choices, not technocratic mandates.
Also, it's worthwhile to note that The Atlantic generally leans right of centre, because those kinds of things seem to matter here.
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MayorShade
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Vegetarian, cat-eyed hobbit? Fuggin sign me up, bitches.
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Phlegm573
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Oh lord. Not this idiot again.
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MayorShade
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Phlegm573 posted:
Oh lord. Not this idiot again.
Yeah, he's fairly good at posting stuff that he didn't thoroughly read.
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Groucho48
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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paulg_68 posted:
Eugenics has unfairly been given a bad name by people who had no real interest in eugenics.
Humanity would be well served by a voluntary eugenics program.
Lead the way. The rest of us will follow as soon as you give us a thumbs-up.
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Brother_Tempus
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
Article posted:
The lead author of the paper, S. Matthew Liao, is a professor of philosophy and bioethics at New York University. Liao is keen to point out that the paper is not meant to advocate for any particular human modifications, or even human engineering generally; rather, it is only meant to introduce human engineering as one possible, partial solution to climate change. He also emphasized the voluntary nature of the proposed modifications. Neither Liao or his co-authors, Anders Sandberg and Rebecca Roache of Oxford, approve of any coercive human engineering; they favor modifications borne of individual choices, not technocratic mandates.
Also, it's worthwhile to note that The Atlantic generally leans right of centre, because those kinds of things seem to matter here.
Of course he's going to say its voluntary, but in the same article, the section I quotes, he marginalizes those who would not volunteer for such a programs, so your strwman has been knocked down ....
since their will never be a unamimous consent for this abomination of policy ... what we seeing is the selling of 2 progressive platforms as a solution to a so called man-made problem.
Just as Al Gore's railing about global warming was not government policy, we saw how his allies in government picked up his rant and started making it government policy.
Now we see a lamestream media source now "selling" eugenics just as "global warming" was sold.
When do you wait to speak out ... before the policy gains momentum or after it is passed?
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MayorShade
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In the article, Liao spends more time talking about ethical contraints than he spends marginalizing anybody. Actually, he can barely be said to be marginalizing anyone. Perhaps the hyper-sensitive among us might feel marginalized. That means you. Otherwise, Liao isn't spreading evil snake oil. Will the government take the ball and run with it? Perhaps. That makes the government the spreaders of the snake oil. Oh, and you.
Edit: If I want to be 4 ft tall with cat's eyes, shouldn't I be able to? Voluntarily? The technology isn't the problem. The likelihood of government hijack IS the problem. Regardless of the probability of that continuum, you should learn the distinction.
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SirGarth
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BT always delivers. 
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MayorShade
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SirGarth posted:
BT always delivers.
like a UPS truck driving through a special ed classroom
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Eternal_Midnight
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Of course he's going to say its voluntary, but in the same article, the section I quotes, he marginalizes those who would not volunteer for such a programs, so your strwman has been knocked down ....
since their will never be a unamimous consent for this abomination of policy ... what we seeing is the selling of 2 progressive platforms as a solution to a so called man-made problem.
Just as Al Gore's railing about global warming was not government policy, we saw how his allies in government picked up his rant and started making it government policy.
Now we see a lamestream media source now "selling" eugenics just as "global warming" was sold.
When do you wait to speak out ... before the policy gains momentum or after it is passed?
You quoted one section, talking about how people might be opposed to his proposals due to a status quo bias. Perhaps you don't understand what is meant by that, but people form a status quo bias when they are presented with a novel idea, and form their conception of the 'status quo' based on the first conditions they are presented with, and not based on any rational conceptualization. Status quo bias is a very real thing, based on behavioural economics.
Any rational individual (which you are clearly not) could easily puzzle out that any benefits that could possibly arise from artificial selection would be far too late to actually help towards preventing climate change. Rational individuals would see clearly that this is not a policy statement, and is instead exploratory science.
But you don't believe in climate change, and are just looking for something to blame on liberals, so I can see how you might misunderstand what was written in this article. You saw climate change and gene modification in the same article and drew your own conclusions, regardless of what was actually written.
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the_great_ontex
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Screw eugenics, lets talk about cybernetics
I don't know about you guys but since I was 10 or so years old, the time when Starcraft entered my life and changed it completely, I've always wanted to become a ghost
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Everyone is insulting BT, but most of you I am now beginning to realize are incredibly stupid and a danger to those people around you
Did you even read the bloody article ? its madness, this guy is the modern equivalent of Doctor Mengele
Read this you fools.......
Isn't it ethically problematic to allow parents to make these kinds of irreversible choices for their children?
Liao: That's a really good question. First, I think it's useful to distinguish between selection and modification. With selection you don't really have the issue of irreversible choices because the embryo selected can't complain that she could have been otherwise---if the parents had selected a different embryo, she wouldn't have existed at all. In the case of modification, that issue could certainly arise, but even then I think it's important to step back and ask why we are looking at these solutions in the first place. The reason we are even considering these solutions is to prevent climate change, which is a really serious problem, and which might affect the well being of millions of people including the child. And so in that context, if on balance human engineering is going to promote the well being of that particular child, then you might be able to justify the solution to the child.
edit: BT was right, this is eugenics, what the hell ? Why are insane evil people like this given public money to study and then do their evil research with ?
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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MayorShade posted:
Vegetarian, cat-eyed hobbit? Fuggin sign me up, bitches.
i don't see how you can find this humorous ....
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Eternal_Midnight
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Everyone is insulting BT, but most of you I am now beginning to realize are incredibly stupid and a danger to those people around you
Did you even read the bloody article ? its madness, this guy is the modern equivalent of Doctor Mengele
Read this you fools.......
edit: BT was right, this is eugenics, what the hell ? Why are insane evil people like this given public money to study and then do their evil research with ?
Right now, it's a research paper. You say the word eugenics as if simply uttering it makes your entire argument.
What exactly is your issue, or are you just frothing at the mouth?
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GrymmDAOC
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Eugenics has always found its most enthusiastic supporters amongst the "progressive"
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Kjarhall
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Everyone is insulting BT, but most of you I am now beginning to realize are incredibly stupid and a danger to those people around you
Did you even read the bloody article ? its madness, this guy is the modern equivalent of Doctor Mengele
Read this you fools.......
Isn't it ethically problematic to allow parents to make these kinds of irreversible choices for their children?
Liao: That's a really good question. First, I think it's useful to distinguish between selection and modification. With selection you don't really have the issue of irreversible choices because the embryo selected can't complain that she could have been otherwise---if the parents had selected a different embryo, she wouldn't have existed at all. In the case of modification, that issue could certainly arise, but even then I think it's important to step back and ask why we are looking at these solutions in the first place. The reason we are even considering these solutions is to prevent climate change, which is a really serious problem, and which might affect the well being of millions of people including the child. And so in that context, if on balance human engineering is going to promote the well being of that particular child, then you might be able to justify the solution to the child.
edit: BT was right, this is eugenics, what the hell ? Why are insane evil people like this given public money to study and then do their evil research with ?
So you and BT have no idea what scientific amorality is, huh? Go figure. Or reading comprehension. Note "in that context" and "might".
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Brother_Tempus
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The Atlantic spreading the evil snake oil of eugenics
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Of course he's going to say its voluntary, but in the same article, the section I quotes, he marginalizes those who would not volunteer for such a programs, so your strwman has been knocked down ....
since their will never be a unamimous consent for this abomination of policy ... what we seeing is the selling of 2 progressive platforms as a solution to a so called man-made problem.
Just as Al Gore's railing about global warming was not government policy, we saw how his allies in government picked up his rant and started making it government policy.
Now we see a lamestream media source now "selling" eugenics just as "global warming" was sold.
When do you wait to speak out ... before the policy gains momentum or after it is passed?
You quoted one section,
I quoted the relevant section .... the section where his ideas should be accepted and those who do not must have some irrational bias ... just like Gore sold his ideas
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Koneg
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paulg_68 posted:
Eugenics has unfairly been given a bad name by people who had no real interest in eugenics.
Humanity would be well served by a voluntary eugenics program.
The only people who should be subjected to any eugenics program are those who propose or support such a eugenics program.
It is seriously the dumbest idea ever, and advocating it is prima facie evidence that your genes are not up to standards.
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GrymmDAOC
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The only thing that determines who is fit is who reproduces. Thats it.
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Brother_Tempus
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GrymmDAOC posted:
The only thing that determines who is fit is who reproduces. Thats it.
now, now don't you want to subscribe to the socialist trendies who are telling you it is hip to push population control?
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Yukishiro1
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The only person in this thread in favor of eugenics is Paulg. Not really known for being a progressive.
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Eternal_Midnight
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Brother_Tempus posted:
I quoted the relevant section .... the section where his ideas should be accepted and those who do not must have some irrational bias ... just like Gore sold his ideas
Strange, then, that the quotation I provided you pretty much discounts everything you are saying. The author is quite explicit in stating their intentions, and what they do not support. I'm not really sure why you are talking about Al Gore - I guess when you don't have any argument, you have to fall back on the old favourites to push your point.
If you want to read this article as someone advocating for a government-enforced eugenics program, I guess there's nothing I can do to stop you. Enjoy crazytown while you are there.
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Remnant_OBrien
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I know its crazy, but i feel like there's some sort of distinction between advocating voluntary genetic modification of human beings to change the way humans interact with their environment, and advocating the sterilization of the mentally ill and other "undesirable" populations.
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