Author Topic: How would you start to balence the budget?
Jaedence 
Posts: 151
Registered: Feb 27, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 151
User ID: 1,349,778
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?

I would cut defense spending in half (so we only spend three times as much as our nearest competitor.)
Close bases in most parts of the world.
Quit giving subsidies to oil companies.
Raise taxes on the rich.

And as a preemptive strike to the RWN who will come in here and say "I would cut food stamps, welfare, medicaid and all social aid programs" - give it up. Cutting those programs to zero would impact the budget about as much as a fly hitting my car impacts the windshield.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Abaddon_Ambrosius 
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
Posts: 25,187
Registered: Dec 21, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 25,057
User ID: 568,022
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Jaedence posted:
How would you start to balence the budget?



Answer:

 

-----signature-----
In the immortal words of Socrates - "I drank what?"
"God you guys suck at the internet - how can you fail to locate porn?!" - Eternal_Midnight
"Knowing means nothing." - Fat-badger
Link to this post
reesescups 
Title: //Captain America
Posts: 47,567
Registered: May 26, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 40,845
User ID: 805,977
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
I would stop paying for anything and continue to take in taxes until the country melted in on itself. Then I would hand out lollipops and loafs of bread.

 

-----signature-----
"man up, you wimp." - Groucho48
"I'm not racist at all." - dae_trist
Link to this post
Sin_of_Onin 
Posts: 35,113
Registered: Jun 29, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,763
User ID: 1,062,657
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
It would take a decade to balance the budget at least unless you did some crazy math in order to claim the budget was balanced.

I think the key to fixing the budget is cutting defense spending and reforming spending there, reforming healthcare to be a UHC system that has far better fiscal constraints, reforming taxation, and balancing the trade deficit. I would also try and integrate all social welfare stuff into one system. EITC, food stamps, housing, Medicaid, education, etc all should be considered as one plan instead of different programs.

The other major issues are oil, transporation, and inflation. These issues are not necessarily budget deficit issues but need to be addressed.

Education also needs to be addressed. We need to leverage the massive amount of money we spend on education to achieve efficiencies while also providing more choice.

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Link to this post
Rosaria 
Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly.
Posts: 46,983
Registered: Aug 22, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 44,486
User ID: 832,524
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
I would start by using spell-check.

 

-----signature-----
"Them Bollinger Bands on the DJIA are starting to look like columns of projectile vomit." ~ Red Pill
Link to this post
theredkay1 
Posts: 6,731
Registered: May 16, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,729
User ID: 1,297,378
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Flying monkees

That would be my starting point.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
cabbyman 
Posts: 36,024
Registered: Jan 6, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,306
User ID: 755,896
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Jaedence posted:

I would cut defense spending in half (so we only spend three times as much as our nearest competitor.)
Close bases in most parts of the world.
Quit giving subsidies to oil companies.
Raise taxes on the rich.

And as a preemptive strike to the RWN who will come in here and say "I would cut food stamps, welfare, medicaid and all social aid programs" - give it up. Cutting those programs to zero would impact the budget about as much as a fly hitting my car impacts the windshield.




Any plan that doesn't involve cutting both defense and welfare programs doesn't involve enough money to actually balance the budget.

Also, we spend way more on social programs than on defense. Saying that cutting those programs would have zero impact is mentally deficient.

 

-----signature-----
“No man’s life, liberty, or property are safe while the Legislature is in session.”
"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid." -- John Wayne
“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace” - Thomas Paine
Link to this post
reesescups 
Title: //Captain America
Posts: 47,567
Registered: May 26, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 40,845
User ID: 805,977
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Rosaria posted:
I would start by using spell-check.
That would cost money



Just like a woman - spend spend spend




That's how you know Rosa is a check!

 

-----signature-----
"man up, you wimp." - Groucho48
"I'm not racist at all." - dae_trist
Link to this post
Cawlin 
Posts: 20,754
Registered: Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Jaedence posted:
And as a preemptive strike to the RWN who will come in here and say "I would cut food stamps, welfare, medicaid and all social aid programs" - give it up. Cutting those programs to zero would impact the budget about as much as a fly hitting my car impacts the windshield.


Honestly I think that very few conservatives seriously consider cuts like these to be meaningful. The "waste" with these programs is a tiny drop in a huge bucket of waste from other programs and corporate welfare and pork in general. Yes social program spending is high, but I believe most of it is necessary, and so should any sane, rational person. In time, under wholly different economic circumstances, sure, some of the social programs could be phased out, but they are necessary for now and for the foreseeable future.

However, what these programs DO show is ineptitude of government run programs and that's most often why conservatives point and laugh at them so frequently.

Anyone in their right mind knows that we need some social programs and that the abuses of them by actual citizens is relatively minimal. Abuses of them by corporate entities however, is grotesque in a lot of cases.



A note on government programs too just in general:

The prime directive of any government office, organization, or program, is self preservation. The service that the office itself performs is a distant second. That is not to say that individuals working in such programs aren't "believers" and aren't genuinely interested in helping and providing the services to other individuals, but that the organizations themselves are less interested in that than they are in their own survival as an entity.

You can see this anywhere you go and look at any sort of government run organization by comparison to private enterprise.

A government run business is more interested in when it closes and will shut the door in the face of a customer as the clock strikes "closing time". A private business, especially a small one, will see that customer coming and think of it as a possible sale and thus serve them.

A government run business isn't interested in providing any better service than what is the bare minimum requirement. A private enterprise must compete with other businesses and so, strives to serve its customers...

Anyway, my remarks are a bit afield of your original premise so I'll shut up about that topic now.


As for how I'd cut the budget, I'd probably do mostly what you've said above, though I'd clean up the tax code and not necessarily raise tax rates per se, but get rid of tax loopholes and exemptions so that people actually paid taxes. Of course that would be a de facto raise in taxes, and the distinction I'm making is semantic, but no more so than all the other arguments about high tax rates and whatnot.

 

-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
Link to this post
Rosaria 
Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly.
Posts: 46,983
Registered: Aug 22, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 44,486
User ID: 832,524
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
reesescups posted:
Rosaria posted:
I would start by using spell-check.
That would cost money



Just like a woman - spend spend spend




That's how you know Rosa is a check!
You went to school with Ash, didn't you. laugh

 

-----signature-----
"Them Bollinger Bands on the DJIA are starting to look like columns of projectile vomit." ~ Red Pill
Link to this post
reesescups 
Title: //Captain America
Posts: 47,567
Registered: May 26, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 40,845
User ID: 805,977
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Rosaria posted:
reesescups posted:
Rosaria posted:
I would start by using spell-check.
That would cost money



Just like a woman - spend spend spend




That's how you know Rosa is a check!
You went to school with Ash, didn't you. laugh
grin


You always find the little easter eggs!

 

-----signature-----
"man up, you wimp." - Groucho48
"I'm not racist at all." - dae_trist
Link to this post
Lyken-P 
Posts: 8,313
Registered: Jan 14, '06
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,289
User ID: 1,108,553
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Jaedence posted:

I would cut defense spending in half (so we only spend three times as much as our nearest competitor.)
Close bases in most parts of the world.
Quit giving subsidies to oil companies.
Raise taxes on the rich.
doh!

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Darkblade_The_Great 
Posts: 7,838
Registered: Aug 10, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,360
User ID: 39,086
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Jaedence posted:

I would cut defense spending in half (so we only spend three times as much as our nearest competitor.)
Close bases in most parts of the world.
Quit giving subsidies to oil companies.
Raise taxes on the rich.

And as a preemptive strike to the RWN who will come in here and say "I would cut food stamps, welfare, medicaid and all social aid programs" - give it up. Cutting those programs to zero would impact the budget about as much as a fly hitting my car impacts the windshield.




You might want to /google a few things before you post. Do you really think that Medicaid/Medicare/welfare programs/etc don't have an impact on our budget? As far as things not having an impact, tax breaks to oil companies(which I agree need to be done away with) and raising taxes on just the rich won't do much of anything.


http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258


. posted:
In fiscal year 2010, the federal government spent $3.5 trillion, amounting to 24 percent of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). While the level of 2010 expenditures — as a share of GDP — exceeds those of recent years, the composition of the budget largely resembles the patterns of recent years. Of that $3.5 trillion, almost $2.2 trillion was financed by federal tax revenues. The remaining $1.3 trillion was financed by borrowing; this deficit will ultimately be paid for by future taxpayers.



. posted:
Defense and security: In 2010, some 20 percent of the budget, or $705 billion, paid for defense and security-related international activities. The bulk of the spending in this category reflects the underlying costs of the Department of Defense and other security-related activities. The total also includes the cost of supporting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, which totaled $170 billion in 2010.

Social Security: Another 20 percent of the budget, or $707 billion, paid for Social Security, which provided retirement benefits averaging $1,175 per month to 34.6 million retired workers in December 2010. Social Security also provided benefits to 2.9 million spouses and children of retired workers, 6.4 million surviving children and spouses of deceased workers, and 10.2 million disabled workers and their eligible dependents in December 2010.

Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP: Three health insurance programs — Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) — together accounted for 21 percent of the budget in 2010, or $732 billion. Nearly two-thirds of this amount, or $452 billion, went to Medicare, which provides health coverage to around 47 million people who are over the age of 65 or have disabilities. The remainder of this category funds Medicaid and CHIP, which in a typical month in 2010 will provide health care or long-term care to about 60 million low-income children, parents, elderly people, and people with disabilities. Both Medicaid and CHIP require matching payments from the states.




. posted:
Safety net programs: About 14 percent of the federal budget in 2010, or $496 billion, went to support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.





 

-----signature-----
flag
the less you gamble, the more you lose when you win.
"Just get us on the ground." "I think that part'll happen pretty definitely!"
Freedom only lives where good men make a stand
Link to this post
Akza 
Posts: 10,121
Registered: Sep 8, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,783
User ID: 713,614
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Raise taxes back to more historical values.

Cut defense spending a huge amount but a portion of it I would put towards NASA and other scientific research rather than towards debt.

Raise the retirement age a year or two effectively immediately. You baby boomers can kiss my ass who lived off the high hog and pass off your crap onto the younger generations. Remove or up the income cap part. I know it's not quite fair since the benefits are capped.

Diminish invasive federal agencies like TSA and Homeland Security

Legalize and tax marijuana (dont tie up jails, courts, etc with it)

Medicare is a hot topic. Health care is a bubble where we pay the largest amount in relation to GDP. It does need to be cut back. I'm no fancy, health industry expert though.

I would also raise import taxes on non-commodities. If other countries want to overtax our exports and undermine the currency exchange rates, then they can get a taste of their own medicine. Things would get more expensive here but it would cause a shift towards local jobs. I'd rather pay 10% extra for things knowing people in my community have a job rather than living off my tax money and causing higher crime rates.

 

-----signature-----
·»Teydis ¤ Igraine«·
·»»·“ ¤Herra¤ “·««·
http://www.backloggery.com/teylix
Link to this post
Bobvillas 
Posts: 1,099
Registered: Nov 19, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,099
User ID: 1,338,010
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
The main culprits are entitlement programs, mounting debt, and one-time charges.

Off of my head these are plausible changes.

Depending on which side of the fence you are on, will sway you as to which is acceptable.


Medicaid~

Isolate and address the drivers of medical cost inflation

Improve efficiency/productivity of healthcare system

Reduce coverage for optional benefits and optional enrollees

Medicare~

Reduce benefits

Increase Medicare tax rate

Isolate and address the drivers of medical cost inflation

Social Security~

Raise retirement age

Reduce benefits

Increase Social Security tax rate

Reduce future initial benefits by indexing to cost of living growth rather than wage growth

Subject benefits to means test to determine eligibility

Slow GDP/Revenue Growth~

Invest in technology/infrastructure/education (be like China)

Remove tax and regulatory uncertainties to stimulate employment growth

Reduce subsidies and tax expenditures and broaden tax base


Defense spending I do not see as a large problem.

Re-setting priorities and streamlining could yield savings perhaps without damaging security.

Truly though, entitlement spending has a bigger impact on our countries financials.

Defense has nearly doubled in the last decade to 5% of GDP, however it is still below the 7% share of GDP from 1948-2000.

/wallotext




 

-----signature-----
"well honestly i didnt learn "jw" on the net i learned it from multiple females that have texted me. but keep on truckin broheim." Thorikos
http://fluffytit.mybrute.com
Link to this post
theredkay1 
Posts: 6,731
Registered: May 16, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,729
User ID: 1,297,378
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Lower the value of the dollar. Push inflation back to 3+% like it was prior to this past decade.

Try to get people to recognize that the US budget problem (public and private) is caused by: slow nominal economic growth over the past 3+ decades, a massive trade deficit. The federal budget problem is caused by the above factors plus the collapse of the financial industry and long term medical costs.

Fixes for the budget problem need to focus on these factors directly. Most proposed budget solutions are just social wealth distribution issues, aka class warfare, or accounting gimmicks under the false pretense that its a budget issue.

The worst are the calls to alter social security. SS is not allowed to add to the deficit. If we do absolutely nothing, SS will not add a dime to the deficit.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Bjorvald 
Posts: 9,251
Registered: Apr 5, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,849
User ID: 665,468
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
>> If we do absolutely nothing, SS will not add a dime to the deficit.

Just curious.. since SS is already paying out more than it is collecting and the "lockbox" is empty, where are they getting their funds for continued operation?

 

-----signature-----
Bjorvald 9lx healer
Blinknone, various toons on classic
GANKED AGAIN
Link to this post
Aerlinthian 
Posts: 66,222
Registered: May 7, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 65,491
User ID: 94,919
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
How would you start to balance the budget?


Require voters to know what the U.S. constitution really says and means... It will take a while but that will do the trick.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Sin_of_Onin 
Posts: 35,113
Registered: Jun 29, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,763
User ID: 1,062,657
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Bjorvald posted:
>> If we do absolutely nothing, SS will not add a dime to the deficit.

Just curious.. since SS is already paying out more than it is collecting and the "lockbox" is empty, where are they getting their funds for continued operation?


Are you under the impression US debt is worthless?

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Link to this post
Bjorvald 
Posts: 9,251
Registered: Apr 5, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,849
User ID: 665,468
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
>> Are you under the impression US debt is worthless?

No, but I am under the impression that the only entity they can sell the debt to is the federal govt itself, which is already in deficit.

 

-----signature-----
Bjorvald 9lx healer
Blinknone, various toons on classic
GANKED AGAIN
Link to this post
Sin_of_Onin 
Posts: 35,113
Registered: Jun 29, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,763
User ID: 1,062,657
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Bjorvald posted:
>> Are you under the impression US debt is worthless?

No, but I am under the impression that the only entity they can sell the debt to is the federal govt itself, which is already in deficit.


So you are suggesting the Federal government doesn't have an outlet to borrow more money?

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Link to this post
Abaddon_Ambrosius 
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
Posts: 25,187
Registered: Dec 21, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 25,057
User ID: 568,022
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Bjorvald posted:
>> If we do absolutely nothing, SS will not add a dime to the deficit.

Just curious.. since SS is already paying out more than it is collecting and the "lockbox" is empty, where are they getting their funds for continued operation?


Are you under the impression US debt is worthless?


Ask the Greeks of about 7 years ago that question regarding their government debt.

The fact you used the word "worthless"... "worth less"... you're at least inching up to the truth.

tired

 

-----signature-----
In the immortal words of Socrates - "I drank what?"
"God you guys suck at the internet - how can you fail to locate porn?!" - Eternal_Midnight
"Knowing means nothing." - Fat-badger
Link to this post
Sin_of_Onin 
Posts: 35,113
Registered: Jun 29, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,763
User ID: 1,062,657
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
The best thing to happen to dumbasses who don't understand jack about economics is the Greek mess. Back in the day when they had to try and make people afraid they had to point to Zimbabwe which never really worked to well. Now they scream about Greece.

rolling_eyes

Go back to the kiddy table AA.

whistling

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Link to this post
Abaddon_Ambrosius 
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
Posts: 25,187
Registered: Dec 21, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 25,057
User ID: 568,022
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Wait.

In the next few years we (and you) may have more cases in point.

Italy.

Portugal.

The US? Possible, if we don't turn around.

 

-----signature-----
In the immortal words of Socrates - "I drank what?"
"God you guys suck at the internet - how can you fail to locate porn?!" - Eternal_Midnight
"Knowing means nothing." - Fat-badger
Link to this post
Sin_of_Onin 
Posts: 35,113
Registered: Jun 29, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,763
User ID: 1,062,657
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
So you are already planning to say stupid crap in the future?

Thanks for the heads up.

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Link to this post
Bobvillas 
Posts: 1,099
Registered: Nov 19, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,099
User ID: 1,338,010
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Bjorvald posted:
>> If we do absolutely nothing, SS will not add a dime to the deficit.

Just curious.. since SS is already paying out more than it is collecting and the "lockbox" is empty, where are they getting their funds for continued operation?


It is funded for now.

Expenses began to exceed revenue in the late 70's early 80's and we had to cut benefits, raise tax rates and increase the full retirement age.

It is fairly stable, however the pay-as-you-go funding structure will need us to make similar changes in the near future.

Really it is not a huge concern but one that will need changes to remain where it is.

 

-----signature-----
"well honestly i didnt learn "jw" on the net i learned it from multiple females that have texted me. but keep on truckin broheim." Thorikos
http://fluffytit.mybrute.com
Link to this post
stevenmeadowsin 
Posts: 5,377
Registered: Dec 13, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,796
User ID: 1,100,236
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
You could balance it in 10 years by cutting the rate of growth in ALL programs. Then you'd have to put in cost containing measures for things that generally have higher growth rates: medical, military, etc. Most programs the feds provide are vital to some group/constiuancy so I'd spread the pain...

 

-----signature-----
The fact that the internet collective is so overwhelmingly supportive of Ron Paul is proof that he is the champion for idiots! .. Corky_Aloof
Link to this post
Bjorvald 
Posts: 9,251
Registered: Apr 5, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,849
User ID: 665,468
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Bjorvald posted:
>> Are you under the impression US debt is worthless?

No, but I am under the impression that the only entity they can sell the debt to is the federal govt itself, which is already in deficit.


So you are suggesting the Federal government doesn't have an outlet to borrow more money?




Not at all. In fact it is doing that right now because SS is in deficit and the IOUs are due.

 

-----signature-----
Bjorvald 9lx healer
Blinknone, various toons on classic
GANKED AGAIN
Link to this post
Sin_of_Onin 
Posts: 35,113
Registered: Jun 29, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,763
User ID: 1,062,657
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Bjorvald posted:

Not at all. In fact it is doing that right now because SS is in deficit and the IOUs are due.


So what are you saying?

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Link to this post
NuEM 
Posts: 15,394
Registered: Mar 2, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,662
User ID: 900,449
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Raise taxes on the rich until it's enough to pay off the debt within 25 years.

 

-----signature-----
It's time we became European:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VzdZ1i8YM8
The Federalist's Song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz70fFZHEhw
Link to this post
Bjorvald 
Posts: 9,251
Registered: Apr 5, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,849
User ID: 665,468
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Sin_of_Onin posted:

So what are you saying?


Do we pay the same interest rate for SS IOUs that we pay on regular bonds sold on the open market?

 

-----signature-----
Bjorvald 9lx healer
Blinknone, various toons on classic
GANKED AGAIN
Link to this post
cabbyman 
Posts: 36,024
Registered: Jan 6, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,306
User ID: 755,896
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Do what Germany did and just kill off all the people who need social services.

Do this once every 40 or 50 years.

 

-----signature-----
“No man’s life, liberty, or property are safe while the Legislature is in session.”
"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid." -- John Wayne
“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace” - Thomas Paine
Link to this post
Sin_of_Onin 
Posts: 35,113
Registered: Jun 29, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,763
User ID: 1,062,657
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Bjorvald posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:

So what are you saying?


Do we pay the same interest rate for SS IOUs that we pay on regular bonds sold on the open market?


We pay more for bonds held by SS but the bonds don't hit the open market so there is no impact on interest rates from that action.

I would say that the answer depends on our capacity to control interest rates which is still very strong by all indications.

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Link to this post
Abaddon_Ambrosius 
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
Posts: 25,187
Registered: Dec 21, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 25,057
User ID: 568,022
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Sin_of_Onin posted:
I would say that the answer depends on our capacity to control interest rates...


It wouldn't "rely" on anything if we still had the muthaf'ckin money.

Except... oh yeah... keeping our currency sound, stable and reserve. Can't have that, though.

 

-----signature-----
In the immortal words of Socrates - "I drank what?"
"God you guys suck at the internet - how can you fail to locate porn?!" - Eternal_Midnight
"Knowing means nothing." - Fat-badger
Link to this post
theredkay1 
Posts: 6,731
Registered: May 16, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,729
User ID: 1,297,378
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Bjorvald posted:
>> If we do absolutely nothing, SS will not add a dime to the deficit.

Just curious.. since SS is already paying out more than it is collecting and the "lockbox" is empty, where are they getting their funds for continued operation?


Right now SS holds a bunch of US govt bonds. If they need cash they can sell these bonds and get cash.

This wont increase the federal deficit or the total debt.

I bet Bill Gates owns some US bonds. If he wants cash and sells these bonds to someone else, this will not increase the deficit or the total debt.

If you owe me $10 in the future and I sell that obligation to someone else b/c I want money right now.....that doesnt change your debt owed.

Its possible to do some accounting obfuscation that excludes the bonds Bill Gates holds so that when he trades it to someone else, a balance changes. But thats all it is.

At some point in the distant future it is possible to imagine a scenario when SS no longer has extra bonds to sell. At that point SS still cannot add to the deficit/debt.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
reesescups 
Title: //Captain America
Posts: 47,567
Registered: May 26, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 40,845
User ID: 805,977
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Social Security - Summary of the 2011 Annual Report


Social Security expenditures exceeded the program’s non-interest income in 2010 for the first time since 1983. The $49 billion deficit last year (excluding interest income) and $46 billion projected deficit in 2011 are in large part due to the weakened economy and to downward income adjustments that correct for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink to about $20 billion for years 2012-2014 as the economy strengthens. After 2014, cash deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the number of beneficiaries continues to grow at a substantially faster rate than the number of covered workers. Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury. Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.

Under current projections, the annual cost of Social Security benefits expressed as a share of workers’ taxable wages will grow rapidly from 11-1/2 percent in 2007, the last pre-recession year, to roughly 17 percent in 2035, and will then dip slightly before commencing a slow upward march after 2050. Costs display a slightly different pattern when expressed as a share of GDP. Program costs equaled roughly 4.2 percent of GDP in 2007, and are projected to increase gradually to 6.2 percent of GDP in 2035 and then decline to about 6.0 percent of GDP by 2050 and remain at about that level.

The projected 75-year actuarial deficit for the combined Old-Age and Survivors Insurance and Disability Insurance (OASDI) Trust Funds is 2.22 percent of taxable payroll, up from 1.92 percent projected in last year’s report. This deficit amounts to 17 percent of tax receipts, and 14 percent of program outlays.

The 0.30 percentage point increase in the OASDI actuarial deficit and the one-year advance in the exhaustion date for the combined trust funds primarily reflects lower estimates for death rates at advanced ages, a slower economic recovery than was assumed last year, and the one-year advance of the valuation period from 2010-2084 to 2011-2085.

While the combined OASDI program continues to fail the long-range test of close actuarial balance, it does satisfy the conditions for short-range financial adequacy. Combined trust fund assets are projected to exceed one year’s projected benefit payments for more than ten years, through to 2035. However, the Disability Insurance (DI) program satisfies neither the long-range nor short-range tests for financial adequacy. DI costs have exceeded non-interest income since 2005 and trust fund exhaustion is projected for 2018; thus changes to improve the financial status of the DI program are needed soon.

 

-----signature-----
"man up, you wimp." - Groucho48
"I'm not racist at all." - dae_trist
Link to this post
Ptilk 
Title: Creepy old pirate
Posts: 50,658
Registered: Feb 13, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 48,530
User ID: 645,124
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
UHC (that fixes medicare because it no longer needs to exist)
Cut defense spending by 10% every year till it's around 20% of what it is now
Raise taxes on everyone gradually until about 23% of GDP is paid in taxes
Wait a couple of years....enjoy historic surpluses and then fight the god damn Republicans who want to cut taxes so we have a fricken deficit again.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Ashmaele 
Title: Pastor of Muppets
Posts: 19,662
Registered: Jan 15, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 15,903
User ID: 612,352
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Ptilk posted:
UHC (that fixes medicare because it no longer needs to exist)

I would just un-tard medicare (ie, give it the ability to negotiate lower prices on things like prescription drugs ldo) and then put everyone on it.

 

-----signature-----
I had a dream. It was an incredible dream. When I awoke, I had a huge mess to clean up.
hugs
Link to this post
Bobvillas 
Posts: 1,099
Registered: Nov 19, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,099
User ID: 1,338,010
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
SS Trust Fund balance was around 2.5 trillion as of 2009.

Medicare Part A Trust Fund balance was at 304 Billion.

These two surpluses were invested in a special (non-marketable) series of US Treasury securities, which were then used to finance budget deficits in areas like Medicaid and Nutrition Assistance.

That is where your argument lies.

 

-----signature-----
"well honestly i didnt learn "jw" on the net i learned it from multiple females that have texted me. but keep on truckin broheim." Thorikos
http://fluffytit.mybrute.com
Link to this post
Sin_of_Onin 
Posts: 35,113
Registered: Jun 29, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,763
User ID: 1,062,657
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Actually one thing that we should probably do is drastically increase immigration but focus on skilled workers. The baby boomers are simply too many.

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Link to this post
Ashmaele 
Title: Pastor of Muppets
Posts: 19,662
Registered: Jan 15, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 15,903
User ID: 612,352
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Actually one thing that we should probably do is drastically increase immigration but focus on skilled workers.


I was about to flame this but the more I think about it the more I think it's actually a really good idea. This is mainly because it costs an asston of $$$ to educate our workforce and so it is more cost effective to let another country educate them and then reap the rewards without investing in their educations ourselves. It's win-win. The only loser is the American worker obv but whatever the world needs ditch diggers too.

 

-----signature-----
I had a dream. It was an incredible dream. When I awoke, I had a huge mess to clean up.
hugs
Link to this post
Bobvillas 
Posts: 1,099
Registered: Nov 19, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,099
User ID: 1,338,010
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Ashmaele posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Actually one thing that we should probably do is drastically increase immigration but focus on skilled workers.


I was about to flame this but the more I think about it the more I think it's actually a really good idea. This is mainly because it costs an asston of $$$ to educate our workforce and so it is more cost effective to let another country educate them and then reap the rewards without investing in their educations ourselves. It's win-win. The only loser is the American worker obv but whatever the world needs ditch diggers too.


Nothing wrong with a little brain drain.

As long as we are on the receiving end.

 

-----signature-----
"well honestly i didnt learn "jw" on the net i learned it from multiple females that have texted me. but keep on truckin broheim." Thorikos
http://fluffytit.mybrute.com
Link to this post
Bjorvald 
Posts: 9,251
Registered: Apr 5, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,849
User ID: 665,468
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Bjorvald posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:

So what are you saying?


Do we pay the same interest rate for SS IOUs that we pay on regular bonds sold on the open market?


We pay more for bonds held by SS but the bonds don't hit the open market so there is no impact on interest rates from that action.



Why were we borrowing money from SS when it was more expensive than the open market?

And it's hard to make the case that interest rates were not affected by keeping trillions of borrowing out of the market.

 

-----signature-----
Bjorvald 9lx healer
Blinknone, various toons on classic
GANKED AGAIN
Link to this post
theredkay1 
Posts: 6,731
Registered: May 16, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,729
User ID: 1,297,378
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Ashmaele posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Actually one thing that we should probably do is drastically increase immigration but focus on skilled workers.


I was about to flame this but the more I think about it the more I think it's actually a really good idea. This is mainly because it costs an asston of $$$ to educate our workforce and so it is more cost effective to let another country educate them and then reap the rewards without investing in their educations ourselves. It's win-win. The only loser is the American worker obv but whatever the world needs ditch diggers too.


Im not sure how this would hurt American workers in a generalized sense. The engineer from MIT might be forced to accept slightly lower wages if you open the floodgates and let in a thousand engineers from Asia and Europe....but a thousand new engineers creates alot of jobs building houses, staffing daycares, bussing tables, etc...

The US doesnt have a land shortage. More immigrants would be a good thing.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Yukishiro1 
Posts: 38,362
Registered: Sep 20, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 31,453
User ID: 718,633
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
The "American Worker" only loses out if the new immigrants are less productive than the average worker here and therefore don't create more jobs than they take.

The "lump of labor" fallacy is called a fallacy for a reason.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Abaddon_Ambrosius 
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
Posts: 25,187
Registered: Dec 21, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 25,057
User ID: 568,022
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
theredkay1 posted:
Im not sure how this would hurt American workers in a generalized sense. The engineer from MIT might be forced to accept slightly lower wages if you open the floodgates and let in a thousand engineers from Asia and Europe....but a thousand new engineers creates alot of jobs building houses, staffing daycares, bussing tables, etc...


Whoa, whoa, waitaminute.

You mean that money TRICKLES DOWN?

Do continue...

 

-----signature-----
In the immortal words of Socrates - "I drank what?"
"God you guys suck at the internet - how can you fail to locate porn?!" - Eternal_Midnight
"Knowing means nothing." - Fat-badger
Link to this post
theredkay1 
Posts: 6,731
Registered: May 16, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,729
User ID: 1,297,378
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Bjorvald posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Bjorvald posted:

Do we pay the same interest rate for SS IOUs that we pay on regular bonds sold on the open market?


We pay more for bonds held by SS but the bonds don't hit the open market so there is no impact on interest rates from that action.



Why were we borrowing money from SS when it was more expensive than the open market?

And it's hard to make the case that interest rates were not affected by keeping trillions of borrowing out of the market.


SS's bonds use a set formula
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/ProgData/intrateformula.html

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Bobvillas 
Posts: 1,099
Registered: Nov 19, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,099
User ID: 1,338,010
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Our countries policies have created incentives to invest in healthcare, housing, and current consumption rather than in productive capital, education, and technology.

The real tools needed to compete in the global marketplace.

Short term, things are not as bad as they could be due to global bond investors looking past our deteriorating financials because of growth, inflation, and Fed purchases that matter more.

Ignoring the rising unfunded entitlement spending, could lead to investors demanding a higher return to lend money to our country, which would lead to rising bond yields/higher borrowing costs.

 

-----signature-----
"well honestly i didnt learn "jw" on the net i learned it from multiple females that have texted me. but keep on truckin broheim." Thorikos
http://fluffytit.mybrute.com
Link to this post
theredkay1 
Posts: 6,731
Registered: May 16, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,729
User ID: 1,297,378
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Im not sure how this would hurt American workers in a generalized sense. The engineer from MIT might be forced to accept slightly lower wages if you open the floodgates and let in a thousand engineers from Asia and Europe....but a thousand new engineers creates alot of jobs building houses, staffing daycares, bussing tables, etc...


Whoa, whoa, waitaminute.

You mean that money TRICKLES DOWN?

Do continue...


Jobs create other jobs. This is kind of a basic fundamental of the economy. More people doing productive things is good for other people who want to do productive things.

I think the standard trickle down answer would have been to mail that MIT engineer a big check. Not really the same thing at all.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Yukishiro1 
Posts: 38,362
Registered: Sep 20, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 31,453
User ID: 718,633
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
theredkay1 posted:

I think the standard trickle down answer would have been to mail that MIT engineer a big check. Not really the same thing at all.


laugh

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Sin_of_Onin 
Posts: 35,113
Registered: Jun 29, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,763
User ID: 1,062,657
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Bjorvald posted:

Why were we borrowing money from SS when it was more expensive than the open market?

And it's hard to make the case that interest rates were not affected by keeping trillions of borrowing out of the market.


With that reasoning we are also keeping trillions worth out of the market.

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Link to this post
Elocism 
Title: Pseudonym
Posts: 25,124
Registered: May 3, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 18,742
User ID: 675,144
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
monkey

 

-----signature-----
you are broken now
but faith can heal you
just do everything i tell you to do
Link to this post
Moe_Nox 
Title: In Moe We Trust
Posts: 22,319
Registered: Feb 4, '07
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 19,181
User ID: 1,203,840
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Have the feds seize and nationalize the pr0n industry.

 

-----signature-----
The Nanny State cometh
Currency should be bacon cheeseburgers and blow jobs... - Reese
Life at the Outpost: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1771556
Link to this post
Cawlin 
Posts: 20,754
Registered: Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Moe_Nox posted:
Have the feds seize and nationalize the pr0n industry.


Wouldn't work, see: Chicken Ranch... plain

 

-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
Link to this post
Fist_de_Yuma 
Posts: 24,444
Registered: Dec 20, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,971
User ID: 566,471
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
I would cut as many programs as possible. I would also close unneeded bases that are only there because of political pull. Nothing would be "too important" to escape my knife. What was left would be reformed so they work and the dead wood chopped. I would do my best to prevent future "empire building". Perhaps a rule that if your program grows more than some percentage that the leader is given a slightly lower job.

Anyone who is not seeking work, I mean really looking, will get cut off. All programs that force a state or person to do something would be cut. Inspectors will be restricted as to what they can fine for. They can advise and re-inspect but only repeated violations would get a fine. No more, "do this or you will have a nitpick inspection on your hands". No more, "Your board is not the right size, give us money. This broken jack in your repair pile was not labeled correctly, give us money."

The inspector's job will be to help, not scare. No one should be scared of the government. I want a government that is welcome, not feared.

 

-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
Link to this post
__Bonk__ 
Posts: 53,947
Registered: Jul 25, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 53,339
User ID: 1,364,654
Subject: How would you start to balence the budget?
Massive cuts to defense, raise taxes by removing most all the loopholes corporations and rich people use, try to find areas to cut out of social programs. Everyone must do with less

grin

 

-----signature-----
I keep my eyes fixed on the sun!
A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
Link to this post

Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional Powered by PHP