Halloweve
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Just saw this in the news...
http://www.northwestohio.com/news/story.aspx?id=727706
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Yukishiro1
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Story posted:
Food stamp eligibility is based on gross monthly income and lottery winnings are considered liquid assets and do not count as income.
That seems stupid. Eligibility should take into account assets as well as income.
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Lyken-P
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... wait a government program is terribly flawed? Say it ain't so!
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Ashmaele
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Story posted:
Food stamp eligibility is based on gross monthly income and lottery winnings are considered liquid assets and do not count as income.
That seems stupid. Eligibility should take into account assets as well as income.
But this logic should only apply to the poor imo.
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Yukishiro1
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P.S. There are way more rich people who take advantage of this than poor people who won the lottery who take advantage of it.
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Halloweve
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I was surprised she spoke on camera..she was defending her need for it because she has bills to pay and TWO houses.
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IMHO
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Yukishiro1 posted:
P.S. There are way more rich people who take advantage of this than poor people who won the lottery who take advantage of it.
QFT
food stamps are on CC now. no stigma easy peasy.
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Rosaria
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Halloweve posted:
I was surprised she spoke on camera..she was defending her need for it because she has bills to pay and TWO houses.
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Yukishiro1
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There are quite a few people with millions of dollars of inherited wealth who collect food stamps.
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Afio
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111060/Amanda-Clayton--1m-lottery-winner-STILL-collecting-welfare.html
She is 24.
Words fail me.
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IMHO
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Politicians steel more than that from us every day.... and we keep putting them back in office.
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Halloweve
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Ah..that is a much better clip than i put up. Ty Afio.
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Yukishiro1
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RWNs posted:
Republican Dale Zorn, who is sponsoring a bill to ban lottery winners from getting food stamps, said: 'Public assistance should be given to those in need of public assistance, not those that have found riches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111060/Amanda-Clayton--1m-lottery-winner-STILL-collecting-welfare.html#ixzz1oSpcK04g
Hahahaha did Ashmaele call that or what? Let's stop lottery winners from collecting food stamps, but people who INHERIT their money? They still need em!
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yukishiro1 posted:
P.S. There are way more rich people who take advantage of this than poor people who won the lottery who take advantage of it.
Rich? Poor? Who gives a damn. You don't even need those words in this conversation.
Broken system is broken.
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Yukishiro1
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Whatever you want to call it. I absolutely guarantee you there are more people with greater than $1 million inherited wealth on food stamps than people with lottery wealth.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Whatever you want to call it. I absolutely guarantee you there are more people with greater than $1 million inherited wealth on food stamps than people with lottery wealth.
And as stated before... totally irrelevant class-warfare-rhetoric fact is still irrelevant.
I know you're a lawyer so you make a career out of dealing in irrelevancy. But that doesn't mean you have to subject the rest of us to it every thread.
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Yukishiro1
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The point is the RWN dummy I quoted wants to prohibit lottery winners from collecting food stamps but not prohibit people with inherited wealth from doing it.
I'm not the one waging class warfare here.
For some reason it's news to get angry over when one lottery winner collects food stamps. But you never see the story about the guy who inherits $20million and collects food stamps.
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Aerlinthian
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Halloweve posted:
I was surprised she spoke on camera..she was defending her need for it because she has bills to pay and TWO houses.
People will rationalize anything, no matter how glaring it is that they are wrong in every sense.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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I don't care about the partisan point. Zorn's just another idiot in a bumper crop of idiots.
The source of the riches is irrelevant. If you don't need food stamps due to assets or income... you don't need them.
Simple as that.
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Yukishiro1
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
If you don't need food stamps due to assets or income... you don't need them.
I agree. 40 out of 50 states don't, though. They see no problem with people with assets worth millions collecting food stamps. 
Honestly, though, it would probably cost more than it would save to do asset checks. At least if you did it for everyone. One thing they could pretty easily do is make people sign something under penalty of perjury saying they don't have assets over $X. And then if someone reported them you could at least levy huge penalties.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Put notices on all distributions. Then, do random screenings... state and federal (to ensure real randomness). If caught doing it for more than a week or two total, you forfeit all the benefits plus half your assets.
That would put an end to it PDQ.
And I bet that kind of windfall would encourage governments to crawl up your ass checking for assets.
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Yukishiro1
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I doubt it. There are not many of these people in absolute terms. 46 million people are on food stamps. There's probably only a few thousands - maybe 10,000 tops - who have big assets and are still collecting stamps.
With that sort of ratio unless you get a tip you could spend millions doing checks and never find anyone.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yukishiro1 posted:
...unless you get a tip...
That's where most of the finds would come from. Peeps get pissed about that kind of abuse.
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DemonicXH
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Should be easy to do if the state you live in has income tax.
Cross reference your application for assistance with your tax return.
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Ashmaele
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How hard is it to verify bank records? I have never worked in banking so I have no idea. Seems like it would be pretty easy to deny food stamps to someone with a million in checking and five million in savings. /shrug
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Yukishiro1
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
...unless you get a tip...
That's where most of the finds would come from. Peeps get pissed about that kind of abuse.
You said random.
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Yukishiro1
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DemonicXH posted:
Should be easy to do if the state you live in has income tax.
Cross reference your application for assistance with your tax return.
Uh of course they check income. This is about assets, not income.
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Afio
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I know in Mississippi, you have to show your bank statements, etc. Now, how many show them everything is anyone's guess.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
...unless you get a tip...
That's where most of the finds would come from. Peeps get pissed about that kind of abuse.
You said random.
Well, you've got a semantic point there. I'd amend that to 'random or anonymous tips'. Like most crimes.
Also, if there's a way to cross-match records, you wouldn't have to go random. I'm taking at face value your hypothesis that one cannot find a systemic or universal-review way to do it. (Which frankly, there probably is a systemic way to do it, or will be soon given records technologies).
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Ashmaele
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Afio posted:
I know in Mississippi, you have to show your bank statements, etc. Now, how many show them everything is anyone's guess.
That's why I wondered if there was a way to verify the information. I had to give checking and savings account balances when I applied for student loans but the lender never asked to see copies of statements. I just wondered if it would be possible to check to see if the info was completely accurate.
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Yukishiro1
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Well the states that do require you to show assets generally just have you haul in your papers. If there was some cheap way to check someone's assets they would probably use it.
I am not aware of any cheap way to tally up how much money someone has.
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Yukishiro1
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Ashmaele posted:
[quote=Afio]I just wondered if it would be possible to check to see if the info was completely accurate.
You can easily enough (with permission) check to see if the figures are right.
What is much harder is making sure the person doesn't have any other assets in any other bank accounts somewhere. As far as I know there is not even a central database anywhere of all the bank accounts a person has under their own name, without even getting to assets nominally under someone else's name.
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Afio
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From the Mississippi website:
Documents to Bring to Interview
At the time of your interview, please bring verification of your income and expenses. If you cannot get all the information together by your interview date, come for the interview because you will have additional time to provide this information. If you need assistance in obtaining this information, please discuss this with your caseworker at the time of the interview. The following are examples of what to bring:
Proof of identity (driver's license, etc.), alien status
Social Security Numbers for all household members
If employed, proof of income (wage stubs, earning statements, etc.) for the previous month or last filed tax return if self-employed
Bank statements for checking accounts, savings accounts, certificates of deposit, credit union accounts, retirement accounts, stocks, bonds, dividends, etc.
Proof of shelter costs (rent or mortgage payment, lot rent, taxes, utility bills - heat, electricity, water/sewage/garbage, telephone, etc.)
You may be asked to provide additional information based on your circumstances.
I know years ago, when my sister had her daughter and not getting any child support, she was living with my mom. Someone came out to check out the house and see "where" she was going to store the food, they didn't want my mom to be able to eat any of it. They actually asked her where my mother was going to eat. My sister got a bit upset, told them she would make my mom eat in the yard with the dog, then she told them to forget about the food stamps, she would take care of herself.
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Ashmaele
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Yukishiro1 posted:
P.S. There are way more rich people who take advantage of this than poor people who won the lottery who take advantage of it.
Do you have a link for this? If so I'd be interested in seeing it.
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Yukishiro1
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No, just common knowledge. 40 out of 50 states don't have asset checks. As long as you earn less than x income (about 1000/month for a single person iirc) you can get food stamps even if you have a mansion worth 20 million dollars.
Now the vast majority of rich rich people have investment income (interest, if nothing else) that puts them over the income limit for food stamps. But we're not talking about a huge number of people here in absolute terms. I have no idea how many but I'd be surprised if it's more than a couple thousand nationwide.
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Ashmaele
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I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems like there would be more information about this if it were "common knowledge." About the only meaningful thing I've found was an article from a Cincinnati NBC News site from 3 years ago
The Warren County Commissioners are scheduled to discuss an unusual topic Tuesday morning: well-off people collecting food stamps.
County Administrator Dave Gully says the county’s Human Services employees were upset because they recently were required to issue $500 a month in food stamps to a person who has lost their job, but has $80,000 in the bank, lives in a $300,000 house that is paid off, and drives a new Mercedes. The family qualifies under a special federal category called "Categorical Eligibility," according to a memo Gully sent to commissioners. Other local families in similar situations also have qualified for food stamps this way, Gully says. The commissioners are scheduled to discuss this topic in more detail at Tuesday’s meeting, which begins at 10:30 a.m. in Lebanon.
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The problem is the elderly who may seem richer than they are because of assets.
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Yukishiro1
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It's hard to find these people. In the 40 states that don't check assets there's no real reason anyone would know.
Most of them are probably not rich rich. The sort of person I would expect to find would be someone who inherited a house and substantial assets from their parents, but didn't have enough interest income to hit the limit and no real interest in investment. I did know one dude like that. He inherited a house worth about half a million and some money from his parents when they died and he quit work and started travelling until he ran out of money. I don't know if he collected food stamps but he could have in any of those states if he had wanted to.
Food stamp abuse is very rare as a % of total recipients. But I'm sure there are more wealthy people on food stamps who got their wealth through inheritance than who got it through the lottery.
edit: Most elderly people would have SS income that would put them over the limit I would think.
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I don't see a problem here.
Passing more laws is not the solution.
I'm with Yuki that this as a percentage isn't large and to be quite honest any legislation passed will only hurt the poor whether intended to or not.
Stupid people will pass stupid laws though I can guarantee that much.
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I suspect folks on a family farm might look like they have plenty of assets, on paper, but are really cash poor. Same for an old widow who never worked, but lives in a paid off house that is worth a lot.
I also suspect the number of folks who win a million or more in the lotto and still go on collecting food stamps is miniscule and this is just a politician trying to gin up some /outrage to get a few votes.
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Subject:
Lottery winner still collects food stamps
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Groucho48 posted:
I suspect folks on a family farm might look like they have plenty of assets, on paper, but are really cash poor. Same for an old widow who never worked, but lives in a paid off house that is worth a lot.
I also suspect the number of folks who win a million or more in the lotto and still go on collecting food stamps is miniscule and this is just a politician trying to gin up some /outrage to get a few votes.
I thought about family farms too. Same for the widow, like my mother in law. The house is paid for, but she is on a fixed income. She will not look into food stamps.
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Yukishiro1
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Subject:
Lottery winner still collects food stamps
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If you're an old widow with a high value paid off house I see nothing wrong with making you take out a reverse mortgage rather than have the state give you food stamps.
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Bjorvald
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Subject:
Lottery winner still collects food stamps
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>> Proof of identity (driver's license, etc.), alien status
OMG RACIST!
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GrilledCheez
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Subject:
Lottery winner still collects food stamps
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I heard on the op that nobody takes advantage of gov't programs. It's all in your mind.
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Urk_VN
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Subject:
Lottery winner still collects food stamps
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/07/us/michigan-lottery-winner/index.html?iref=obnetwork
Looks like they yanked her off the assistance.
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Rhint
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Lottery winner still collects food stamps
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I love how some people are outraged by this and don't have a problem subsidizing the oil industry.
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stevenmeadowsin
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Subject:
Lottery winner still collects food stamps
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Yukishiro1 posted:
DemonicXH posted:
Should be easy to do if the state you live in has income tax.
Cross reference your application for assistance with your tax return.
Uh of course they check income. This is about assets, not income.
It may be an asset next year, but in the current year it is income.
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The fact that the internet collective is so overwhelmingly supportive of Ron Paul is proof that he is the champion for idiots! .. Corky_Aloof
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