Ashmaele
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Are casino gaming/sports betting/etc harmful to an economy strictly wrt the economy? (Please ignore the debate about the role of government and if they have the right to tell you what to do with your money.)
For example: Bob earns $4000 a month, every month with decent job security. After taxes and expenses he has say $1000 left per month as disposable income to spend/invest however he wishes.
Out of this $1000, Bob loses $400 every month to sports betting (imagine it was legal where you live if it is not currently legal). He never loses more than $400, but never less, either. Sometimes he turns the $400 into $1500 or so but never cashes out/spends it and always ends up losing the $400 and all profit before the month is over. It is an amount he limits himself to and has strong willpower but doesn't want to quit gambling for whatever reason.
Anyway, given this, is society worse off economically than with him spending that $400 elsewhere in non-gambling endeavors? e.g. $400 on nice restaurants, on nice food at the supermarket, on clothes or baseball cards or whatever?
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Sin_of_Onin
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Addiction harms the society. The guy who is simply gambling for entertainment... not so much.
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ZigmundZag
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Your for-instance is a lot rosier than your typical casino gambler.
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Ashmaele
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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ZigmundZag posted:
Your for-instance is a lot rosier than your typical casino gambler.
Actually it isn't. You are considering worst-case scenarios and applying them to the population as a whole.
Problem gamblers do exist, but they are not nearly as prevalent as you might expect. And the rate of problem gambling is about the same everywhere whether or not gambling is legal or illegal.
Anyway, my question was more on the strict economics behind the spending than the ancillary behavioral issues.
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eodoll
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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gambling as an entertainment venue is prob good - casinos can be seen like a nightclub, bar, hotel, etc..
addiction hurts the economy.
so it depends on the clientelle- addicts bad. people coming in for healthy entertainment- good.
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Elocism
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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all the people employed by him dropping $400 a month probably think it is good for the economy
high level it doesnt really matter where he spends the money
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Brother_Tempus
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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no, Las Vegas is a great example of how gambling grows an economy.
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ZigmundZag
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Ashmaele posted:
Anyway, my question was more on the strict economics behind the spending than the ancillary behavioral issues.
Then you're fishing for an answer you already know.
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Eager_Igraine
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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ZigmundZag posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Anyway, my question was more on the strict economics behind the spending than the ancillary behavioral issues.
Then you're fishing for an answer you already know.
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Moe_Nox
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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I can go on for pages on this subject after watching it closely for 15 years.
The bottom line is, Casinos will stretch the distance between economical classes even more than they are currently wherever you are talking about.
The lower levels of society are already in a fragile balance of getting by financially, some paycheck to paycheck.
Casinos will feed off of people that have addictive personalities and that do not make good decisions. This is more often than not lower lifestyle people.
Their bread money will become the grease that turns the gears.
Meanwhile the profits will benefit owners and shareholders. The surrounding community will prosper both from taxes and from charity initiatives from these dollars.
The stable elements of the community will all elevate a small bit and the unstable will spiral into bankruptcy and homelessness.
In the end I am pro casinos.
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Ashmaele
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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ZigmundZag posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Anyway, my question was more on the strict economics behind the spending than the ancillary behavioral issues.
Then you're fishing for an answer you already know.
Not really. What I'd like to know and I have never seen studied is whether or not gambling is economically stimulative (as every single would-be casino owner claims) or if it serves to economically drain a region of its resources. While there is no doubt that the problem gambler is a net loss (at least in my mind) I wonder if there are better uses for Bob's money than handing it over to the casino every week.
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theredkay1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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At a high level its no different than any other expense.
His $400 loss each month ends up in the pockets of casino employees, producers of gaming equipment, food providers and the thousands of other suppliers for the casino industry...
If this additional investment spurs productivity improvements from the casino or their suppliers....then society is a little richer.
There are alot of value judgements that will go into this as well....to get a harmful economic outcome you would have to show this causes a decrease in productivity for the economy....maybe thats possible and gambling causes damage to the employee base of the economy, but I doubt it.
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PhillsburyBandit
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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I don't think gambling hurts a society, it benefits it instead. Look at how much money has went to education and other programs from the lottery.
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Eager_Igraine
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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PhillsburyBandit posted:
I don't think gambling hurts a society, it benefits it instead. Look at how much money has went to education and other programs from the lottery.
Don't be a n00b, as the lottery funds programs the state cuts existing funding for those programs. There is no net financial benefits to either roads or education from lottery proceeds.
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PhillsburyBandit
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Eager_Igraine posted:
PhillsburyBandit posted:
I don't think gambling hurts a society, it benefits it instead. Look at how much money has went to education and other programs from the lottery.
Don't be a n00b, as the lottery funds programs the state cuts existing funding for those programs. There is no net financial benefits to either roads or education from lottery proceeds.
The point I'm trying to make is that when gambling is regulated and organized it helps the economy instead of harming it.
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Ashmaele
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Eager_Igraine posted:
PhillsburyBandit posted:
I don't think gambling hurts a society, it benefits it instead. Look at how much money has went to education and other programs from the lottery.
Don't be a n00b, as the lottery funds programs the state cuts existing funding for those programs. There is no net financial benefits to either roads or education from lottery proceeds.
This is pretty much exactly what happened in Florida.
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Yukishiro1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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There's no answer in the abstract.
The damage gambling does is the same sort of damage that drugs do. When people spend more money than they can afford to spend it hurts the economy in the long run. Drugs (including alcohol) and gambling happen to be two areas that seem more prone than most to people being unable to control themselves and spending themselves into a hole.
But it could potentially be anything. I'm sure some people spend themselves out of house and home because they're addicted to buying baseball cards.
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Addiction harms the society. The guy who is simply gambling for entertainment... not so much.
This.
Moderation and balance in all things are often undervalued keys to a good life.
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Taliesihne
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Without the proper controls in place, legal gambling can be harmful to a society or economy.
Look at the last economic meltdown for evidence thereof.
If it is regulated properly, I'd argue it's actually beneficial to society.
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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lets not forget the economic efficiency with which casino's in our blighted urban areas are able to recycle government transfer payments back to the government through taxes.
You should see Potowatomi Casino in downtown Milwaukee when the gubmint checks come. 2-3 people waiting to sit down at a slot machine. $1000 social security disability check, put into a slot machine, knowing that they will still be able to eat on their WIC cards... and that their section 8 housing isn't going anywhere.
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Kjarhall
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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It does consolidate money into the hands of fewer people. It depends on whether you think that's a bad thing or not.
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theredkay1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
There's no answer in the abstract.
The damage gambling does is the same sort of damage that drugs do. When people spend more money than they can afford to spend it hurts the economy in the long run. Drugs (including alcohol) and gambling happen to be two areas that seem more prone than most to people being unable to control themselves and spending themselves into a hole.
But it could potentially be anything. I'm sure some people spend themselves out of house and home because they're addicted to buying baseball cards.
I dont think this is right. The question isnt whether it might hurt the bank account of one individual...its what is the aggregate impact.
If I go to your shop, overspend and wrack up a big credit card bill....my debt is your income. The economy isnt worse off. This isnt even a net increase in aggregate debt since you have more money for savings. Last week you had debt and I had savings, now the situation is reversed. Maybe I am economically damaged, but you are better off.
I think drugs really can be productivity destroying. Most people accomplish less when under the influence...but this isnt true if you lose money at a casino.
There may be a transfer of wealth between classes and persons...and maybe we think thats a bad thing but in the aggregate there is really no harm done by a casino. Its no different than any other business in this regard.
I dont think gambling has alot of room for productivity enhancements and it wont create much wealth but that may be my own bias. Casino's arent bad but they are just going to pull spending away from somewhere else. If a casino in New Orleans pulls spending away from leisure activities in Florida, its a win for the N.O. economy...if it pulls spending away from movie theaters in N.O., there is no real improvement for the N.O. economy.
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Brother_Tempus
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Kjarhall posted:
It does consolidate money into the hands of fewer people.
Source?
In Vegas the money goes into the pockets of the 100k+ employees of the casinos
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Yukishiro1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Someone who spends too much money gambling and ends up with their house foreclosed on damages the economy as a whole, not just their own finances. Someone who uses every spare dollar at the casino instead of investing in their own education and financial well being hurts the economy as a whole, not just their own finances.
Your argument is somewhat like saying too much debt can't hurt an economy because someone always holds that debt so it's just a transfer. Or that if everyone went out tomorrow and spent 100% of their income on Peeps the economy as a whole would be just the same.
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Ashmaele
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Kjarhall posted:
It does consolidate money into the hands of fewer people.
Source?
In Vegas the money goes into the pockets of the 100k+ employees of the casinos
All of it? Really? Source?
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PhillsburyBandit
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Ashmaele posted:
Eager_Igraine posted:
PhillsburyBandit posted:
I don't think gambling hurts a society, it benefits it instead. Look at how much money has went to education and other programs from the lottery.
Don't be a n00b, as the lottery funds programs the state cuts existing funding for those programs. There is no net financial benefits to either roads or education from lottery proceeds.
This is pretty much exactly what happened in Florida.
Yeah but what difference does it make its all taxpayer money anyway. Its as if the state never cut it at all. And the question was does gambling harm society and it doesn't, it pays the bills.
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Yukishiro1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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State lotteries are a tax on poor and/or stupid people.
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the_great_ontex
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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A lot of the negative social stigma and it's scandalous "lifestyle" that's attached to it is a social construct that resulted from its illegality.
Unless a Casino is deliberately cheating at their tables for their benefit, Gambling doesn't hurt anyone but the person themselves (sometimes it benefits them). We shouldn't have laws based on nothing but moral principal. Laws should only exist if they impact someone other than the person in a negative way (not to be used too broadly)
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Brother_Tempus
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Ashmaele posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Kjarhall posted:
It does consolidate money into the hands of fewer people.
Source?
In Vegas the money goes into the pockets of the 100k+ employees of the casinos
All of it? Really? Source?
Common sense, if you have a casino then you need employees to run the casino. If you have employees then you pay them from the revenue you are generating
you deliberate attempt to be obtuse is noted.
As for the 100k+ number : http://gaming.unlv.edu/reports/lvstrip_emp.pdf
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Kjarhall
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Ashmaele posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Kjarhall posted:
It does consolidate money into the hands of fewer people.
Source?
In Vegas the money goes into the pockets of the 100k+ employees of the casinos
All of it? Really? Source?
Beat me to it. 
You don't need a source to do math BT.
Millions put money in. Even if your 100K+ employees took an even share, it's still consolidation. Now add ownership in the mix and what their percentage is vs. your group of employees and it's even more consolidating.
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Yukishiro1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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wooooooooooooooooooosh
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the_great_ontex
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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A casino is a business just like any other business....
I don't really think I even need to say anything more than that...
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Yukishiro1
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A business aimed at stupid people who pay you to take their money as long as you take it in an exciting way.
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the_great_ontex
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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You could say the same about Apple, a product for stupid people 
And there's plenty of not stupid people who are professional gamblers. In fact gambling REALLY benefits extremely gifted people I would say who know statistics well. You could say the same about the stock market. That's just as much as a gamble if not more so
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Yukishiro1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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the_great_ontex posted:
You could say the same about Apple, a product for stupid people
Preach it bro!
Anyhow I don't think gambling should be illegal. Although certain regulations probably make sense. You shouldn't be able to use your social security check or your disability payment to gamble. But practically speaking I don't know how you can stop people from doing it.
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Yukishiro1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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the_great_ontex posted:
In fact gambling REALLY benefits extremely gifted people I would say who know statistics well.
Well, depends what sort of gambling. Slot machines never benefit anyone but the slot machine owner.
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Mastara
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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I'm not sure, I just found out recently that you have to report anything about something like 500$ so you can pay taxes on it? Is this true? That freakin sucks.
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Brother_Tempus
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
the_great_ontex posted:
You could say the same about Apple, a product for stupid people
Preach it bro!
Anyhow I don't think gambling should be illegal. Although certain regulations probably make sense. You shouldn't be able to use your social security check or your disability payment to gamble. But practically speaking I don't know how you can stop people from doing it.
by not trying to .. Government has no authority to regulate gambling at the federal levrl and no ,oral authority at the local level
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Yukishiro1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Uh, if the government is sending you a check in the mail I'm pretty sure they can put any conditions on it they want (assuming they don't violate equal protection or something similar).
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Brother_Tempus
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Uh, if the government is sending you a check in the mail I'm pretty sure they can put any conditions on it they want
They make think they can but the black market that exist for such things shows that such thinking is logically flawed
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Ptilk
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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In your example, Bob would also be spending money on food and drinks, transportation and maybe some comfortable gambling clothes....so that would be of some benefit to the economy in his area.
But if he somehow could just sit at home and gamble that money....then yes, gambling hurts the economy.
When you go out and shop or eat you are spending money and thus supporting other peoples jobs and companies. when you sit and gamble, you are throwing your money into a pit that eats your money and funnels it into an offshore account and skips your local economy almost entirely.
Any economc benefit from gambling doesn't come from the gambling itself, it comes from the attempts by the gambling establishments owners to get you to gamble with them instead of someone else. Thus the fancy buildings, sexy cocktail women, floor shows, restaurants, and all the other junk.
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Ashmaele
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
[quote=Kjarhall]It does consolidate money into the hands of fewer people.
Source?
In Vegas the money goes into the pockets of the 100k+ employees of the casinos
All of it? Really? Source?
Common sense, if you have a casino then you need employees to run the casino. If you have employees then you pay them from the revenue you are generating
you deliberate attempt to be obtuse is noted.
As for the 100k+ number : http://gaming.unlv.edu/reports/lvstrip_emp.pdf
[/quote]
You need employees to run a casino? No shit?
You insinuated that all the gambling money goes to employees of the casinos. It is a matter of fact that a sizeable portion goes into the public coffers in Nevada. Your deliberate attempt to gloss over this fact is noted.
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Ashmaele
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
A business aimed at stupid people who pay you to take their money as long as you take it in an exciting way.
This is 100% the way I feel about the poor saps I saw backed up on I-4 during that stupid Daytona 500 last week. Only those poor saps had absolutely no chance of actually winning anything.
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Mastara
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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glad I havent missed anything by not gambling. But when I was in the military the guys in my shop would always come back with 2-5 grand. I have no freakin clue how but they would always win. I think only 1 out of 10 times did they loose money. My luck Id leave owing money.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
A business aimed at stupid people who pay you to take their money as long as you take it in an exciting way.
That's why if you are a disciplined gambler who treats it as a 'supplement' to your other entertainment, you'll usually do A-OK.
I am one of those. So is a friend from Cali I've known for years. He and I sometimes meet with the wives/girlfriends (over the years) in Vegas, or sometimes go solo. Typical # of trips per year for each of us is 2, but sometimes 3.
I sat down last year and calc'd out my last decade of wins/losses.
The most I've ever lost in a visit (I have only ever had 3 losing visits out of 24) is 1/5th of one percent of my annual salary.
Including my losses, I have overall paid for every single trip I've ever taken, with a $1200 profit. That includes comp'd / free / full price hotel rooms, plane tickets, and any rental car fare. (I do not include food or shows, as that is what I would have done had I stayed home on the weekend anyway).
That's on blackjack. My friend who plays craps has done better by about $6000 to the upside.
Your mileage will vary WIDELY. However, it isn't all that hard if you pick a game and stick with a stake strategy, and quit when it is time to quit. Ahead or behind.
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Groucho48
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Ptilk posted:
In your example, Bob would also be spending money on food and drinks, transportation and maybe some comfortable gambling clothes....so that would be of some benefit to the economy in his area.
But if he somehow could just sit at home and gamble that money....then yes, gambling hurts the economy.
When you go out and shop or eat you are spending money and thus supporting other peoples jobs and companies. when you sit and gamble, you are throwing your money into a pit that eats your money and funnels it into an offshore account and skips your local economy almost entirely.
Any economc benefit from gambling doesn't come from the gambling itself, it comes from the attempts by the gambling establishments owners to get you to gamble with them instead of someone else. Thus the fancy buildings, sexy cocktail women, floor shows, restaurants, and all the other junk.
Pretty much. Gambling, overall, might not hurt the economy but it doesn't help the economy nearly as much as spending money on other things would, and, of course, when it comes to folks with gambling problems, casinos privatize the profits and socialize the losses. If a guy's family gets thrown out in the street because he gambled away the rent money, it's society that has to help that family out, not the casino. If he ends up in the court system for failing to pay his bills, that's more expense to society.
Having said that, I have no problem with gambling being legal. I do have a problem with states running lotteries, though.
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Ashmaele
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Mastara posted:
glad I havent missed anything by not gambling. But when I was in the military the guys in my shop would always come back with 2-5 grand. I have no freakin clue how but they would always win. I think only 1 out of 10 times did they loose money. My luck Id leave owing money.
I heard a guy on a documentary about Vegas say: "It is really easy to win money in a casino. It is very difficult to leave with it."
The problem for most people isn't that they can't win, it's that they don't know when to quit.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Ashmaele posted:
The problem for most people isn't that they can't win, it's that they don't know when to quit.
Yes. This again.
It's what I said in the last couple sentences of my previous post. You just need to have a proper stake strategy to cover the 'swings' and walk when it is time to walk according to the limits of that pre-set stake... win or lose.
It's really not that hard... UNLESS you are a 'gambler' instead of a 'gamer.'
'Gamblers' will get eaten alive consistently. Gamers won't.
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Aerlinthian
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I think an economy based on gambling is flawed and ultimately not good. I can understand however how some areas won't have much else they can offer.
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Aerlinthian
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Groucho48 posted:
Having said that, I have no problem with gambling being legal. I do have a problem with states running lotteries, though.
Agreed, especially the latter.
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theredkay1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Someone who spends too much money gambling and ends up with their house foreclosed on damages the economy as a whole, not just their own finances. Someone who uses every spare dollar at the casino instead of investing in their own education and financial well being hurts the economy as a whole, not just their own finances.
Your argument is somewhat like saying too much debt can't hurt an economy because someone always holds that debt so it's just a transfer. Or that if everyone went out tomorrow and spent 100% of their income on Peeps the economy as a whole would be just the same.
How does the first guy damage the economy? You are still confusing the single impact with the aggregate. If he spends all his money, it ends up in the pockets of others...no damage there.
a house foreclosure is unfortunate for that guy but great for the guy who gets a cheaper house by buying the foreclosure. Cheap houses are good for the economy. Reducing education levels is bad and slows an economy, but that's not really an effect of gambling.
I'm not saying it would be the same, I'm just saying it isn't necessarily worse. Your peep example suffers. Again from getting confused about aggregates. People in peep related industry would be rich but we wouldn't be worse off if we bought more Peeps. Your argument is one that can be applied to every industry...they can't all be bad. Productivity creates wealth...everything else is a values judgement.
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Sin_of_Onin
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Obviously destructive behavior results in economic harm and that includes self destructive behavior like gambling away the rent or mortgage money.
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Yukishiro1
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If we all went out and spent 100% of our income on peeps that would be productivity destroying. That was sorta the point. Foreclosure is a textbook example of a transaction that destroys value. So is gambling away your kid's lunch money. Not all transactions are equal in the aggregate.
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NuEM
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I thought this was going to be about banks.
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eodoll
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
the_great_ontex posted:
You could say the same about Apple, a product for stupid people
Preach it bro!
Anyhow I don't think gambling should be illegal. Although certain regulations probably make sense. You shouldn't be able to use your social security check or your disability payment to gamble. But practically speaking I don't know how you can stop people from doing it.
What if you get social security but dont need it? Then why not spend it gambling?
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theredkay1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
If we all went out and spent 100% of our income on peeps that would be productivity destroying. That was sorta the point. Foreclosure is a textbook example of a transaction that destroys value. So is gambling away your kid's lunch money. Not all transactions are equal in the aggregate.
If we all spent 100% of our income and wracked up massive debt on cars or houses or food it would destroy productivity. Those are the bedrocks of the economy...but if we use this ridiculous example, they are all horrible for economic growth.
But in the aggregate you cant ever go out and 'spend all your money'. The Peep industry will be flush with cash. Peep executives and shareholders will have to decide what to do with all that money. As wages for delivery drivers and peep factory workers go up the Peep execs will look to automate driving up productivity. Maybe you hate Peeps and you are sad that the rest of the food industry shrunk in response to Peep demand but the economy isnt any worse.
The economy cant go out and spend 100% of its money on anything (b/c my Peep debt is the income for everyone in the Peep industry, there is no aggregate increase in debt) unless you have a massive trade imbalance. So this isnt about Peeps or casino's, you are worried about the damage done by trade imbalances and capital flows. You are making a values argument against casino's...and thats fine.
Its the capital flows that determine if the casino is good for the city. A new casino is good for Pittsburgh if it pulls new money into Pittsburgh that would have otherwise been spent in Florida or Nevada. If it just redirects money that would have been spent in Pittsburgh anyway, there is no real gain to the city.
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eodoll
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Actually when money funnels from many to a select few then the money goes into a black hole of sorts. At that point this is very bad for the economy. The best situation for the economy s for money to be evenly distributed.
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Yukishiro1
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It all relates back to productivity. Too much debt can hurt productivity. Not having a place to live in hurts your productivity. Hugely unequal wealth distribution, for that matter, hurts productivity.
I am not so much making an argument against casinos as against gambling away all your money. I did not think it was particularly controversial to say it hurts the economy when people gamble themselves into homelessness.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Treat gambling like a service that happens to be addictive. You can get addicted to having a new hairstyle every day and end up having to give up your house.
It is the harm of the addiction that is the loss, not the gambling itself as a form of entertainment. To the extent hairstylists and casinos play a part in this destructive behavior the industry is destructive. I think it is rather obvious that casinos encourage this destructive and compulsive behavior to the detriment of their consumer and therefor the economy as a whole.
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Yukishiro1
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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I am not sure they really encourage it. It isn't in the casinos best interest for people to gamble away their mortgage money. The people casinos like most are old rich people who can come every couple months, don't create problems, and can blow 10k without it really affecting their ability to blow 10k next time around.
But it is definitely true that gambling is more likely to result in that sort of economic damage than most other consumption. I'm sure someone somewhere bought so much orange juice they had their house foreclosed on but it isn't terribly common.
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Sin_of_Onin
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I am not sure they really encourage it. It isn't in the casinos best interest for people to gamble away their mortgage money. The people casinos like most are old rich people who can come every couple months, don't create problems, and can blow 10k without it really affecting their ability to blow 10k next time around.
But it is definitely true that gambling is more likely to result in that sort of economic damage than most other consumption. I'm sure someone somewhere bought so much orange juice they had their house foreclosed on but it isn't terribly common.
They literally design casinos to make people keep gambling by losing track of time and getting lost and giving them alcohol. They have made an art out of it.
You crazy.
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Well sure. But if you asked a casino owner if they want their customers to gamble themselves into homelessness and joblessness I think they would say no. The ideal thing from the owner's point of view is to have people spending close to 100% of their discretionary spending on gambling but not spending more than that.
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Rosaria
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NuEM posted:
I thought this was going to be about banks.
It is.
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Sin_of_Onin
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From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Well sure. But if you asked a casino owner if they want their customers to gamble themselves into homelessness and joblessness I think they would say no. The ideal thing from the owner's point of view is to have people spending close to 100% of their discretionary spending on gambling but not spending more than that.
I see little point in arguing intent.
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theredkay1
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Its still not clear how gambling and overspending hurts the economy as a whole. If I spend too much, that just means the casino workers/owners make more money. The economy isnt disrupted. Am I sad because I have no money? Maybe so, but my tears dont slow down the economy. Plus my tears are offset by the new happiness of the casino workers.
You cant gamble yourself into joblessness. If anything losing money would spur you to work even more.
Theres a values argument. Maybe my sadness far outweighs the new joy of the casino owner....sadness is bad so the country is worse off.
You guys are confusing economic damage to an individual with economy wide damage. If I give you all my money and declare bankruptcy, the economy isnt any worse off.
/shrug
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Yukishiro1
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If you gamble yourself out of your house and car you probably gamble yourself out of a job too. Being out of a job hurts the economy. I didn't think this was all that hard to understand.
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eodoll
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Most people dont drink themselves into misery..so while alcohol can be detrimental to the economy and society- most of the time its positive.
Casinos too bring a positive element for most of us.
There will always be people without self control.
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Sin_of_Onin
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theredkay1 posted:
Its still not clear how gambling and overspending hurts the economy as a whole. If I spend too much, that just means the casino workers/owners make more money. The economy isnt disrupted. Am I sad because I have no money? Maybe so, but my tears dont slow down the economy. Plus my tears are offset by the new happiness of the casino workers.
You cant gamble yourself into joblessness. If anything losing money would spur you to work even more.
Theres a values argument. Maybe my sadness far outweighs the new joy of the casino owner....sadness is bad so the country is worse off.
You guys are confusing economic damage to an individual with economy wide damage. If I give you all my money and declare bankruptcy, the economy isnt any worse off.
/shrug
Of course you can gamble into joblessness. You can gamble into all sorts of situations that cost the economy money.
Your assertions to the contrary are strange and naive.
Also individual damage in an economy that is like ours not spreads to others. Bankruptcy is also bad.
Obviously so. I will give you that gambling can be treated like any entertainment but to act like the self destructive behavior of an individual doesn't have implications that impact others is ludicrous.
Also one thing that has not been mentioned is what it does to families. It also leads to crime. People will steal to feed their addiction. Addiction is so obviously destructive it is strange to see anyone argue otherwise.
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__Bonk__
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Subject:
From a purely economics point of view, does gambling harm a society/economy?
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Millions of people gamble with no harm to their lives but there are some people who let gambling destroy their lives. I find it funny that gambling was bad until the government got into the gambling business itself and cashed in
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