SoBaKi
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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What should be the primary goal of a publicly traded Defense Contractor? Maximize return to its stockholders OR ensure highest level of support to the Government.
Before any of you state it should do both, it cannot. One side or the other suffers or both do.
I've recently found myself on the wrong end of a new edict from upper management to achieve a profit margin that is ridiculously high. So much so that over the weekend, I came to the conclusion that the ONLY way to ensure the goals are achieved is at the potential expense of one or two people's jobs which will subsequently decrease the support I provide to the Government client.
After thinking about this most of the weekend, I came to the conclusion that Defense Contractors should be treated in such a way that profit is capped, say at 10%. That way, the corporation is still making money, albiet on a much more defined basis but it also helps focus the Defense Contractor's support BACK to the Government client.
Anyway, I'm sure this will make a lot of people's heads assplode, but after what has come down from upper management, I don't care.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Their job is to work in the best interest of the stockholders. It is government job to insure they get the best bang for the buck. If you have a vender who do you think they are working for; to get the most for you or to get the most for themselves? Why would it be any different with Government?
Before you go off without thinking remember that putting out the very best product is in the best interest of the stockholders as well. This is true no matter who you are working for. The very rich have one thing in common. That is they are honest to the core. I know that Hollywood told you something different but I'm taking about the real world. The cheats and liars might profit in the short term but never in the long term. Remember that the ones with the biggest press are in jail.
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Taliesihne
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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I've said this before, but defense contractors, especially R + D ones, should face a stark choice:
1) Retain cost-plus and forfeit all IP rights to their development
2) Eat the cost of R + D and retain IP Rights in the private market.
Right now, they get both. It's a pretty sweet deal.
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Bonzoboy1
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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I knew it would just be a matter of time before the left started suggesting exactly how much profit a company can make.
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Yukishiro1
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
I knew it would just be a matter of time before the left started suggesting exactly how much profit a company can make.
Arn't you one of those people who loves to complain about the salaries and benefits of public workers because the taxpayer pays for it?
Contractor gigs are truly ridiculous. If you want to see government waste at work it is the prime place to look.
Here is just one example:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/01/31/ending-overpayment-federal-contractor-executives
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Moe_Nox
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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There shouldn't be publicly traded defense contractors.
All weapons and armaments R&D as well as production should be entirely under government management.
This eliminates the two largest negatives:
1. That our most sophisticated designs are not being taken away by a company and sold to the highest bidder.
2. Eliminating the biggest profit earners from conflict and war. There will always be someone in the food chain benefiting, but it will be greatly reduced.
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Taliesihne
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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War profiteering used to be a crime. It's now an industry. 
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NuEM
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Holy Communist Batman! I agree with everything you just said.
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Manegarm
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Taliesihne posted:
War profiteering used to be a crime. It's now an industry.
More or less been a industry here, tho we're not dumb enough to pay for it ourselves.. We let you people do that.
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paulg_68
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Subject:
Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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SoBaKi posted:
Defense Contractors should be treated in such a way that profit is capped, say at 10%.
If you do that then you eliminate the benefits of dealing with a private company. You'd be better off just nationalizing the business. Which of course is worse than leaving them private with uncapped profit.
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Moe_Nox
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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The interests of national defense needs to be a high priority for a nation even in times of peace and without crisis.
One of the things that Reagan ran on and implemented was The Socrates Program, which ensured that our national defense needs would be met by American companies.
This has been dismantled since Reagan has left office.
Now not only are the nation's defense needs met by private companies, but often times foreign companies that can turn off production in a time of war.
Do we really want China making our tanks?
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Subject:
Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Moe_Nox posted:
There shouldn't be publicly traded defense contractors.
All weapons and armaments R&D as well as production should be entirely under government management.
This eliminates the two largest negatives:
1. That our most sophisticated designs are not being taken away by a company and sold to the highest bidder.
2. Eliminating the biggest profit earners from conflict and war. There will always be someone in the food chain benefiting, but it will be greatly reduced.
You believe this because Government does such a bang up job? I guess you guys have learned nothing from the Volt. With government you get a car that instructs you to add oil and gas, and then shake the car to mix it. I wish liberals would stop getting their world view of things from Hollywood.
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Moe_Nox
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Fist here is a list of our contractors.
Everyone of those companies is in it for the money.
I would prefer to have our military needs met without turning it into a lucrative machine that benefits by blowing up children in war.
Why do you hate the children Fist?
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Hsi_Kang
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
The very rich have one thing in common. That is they are honest to the core. I know that Hollywood told you something different but I'm taking about the real world. The cheats and liars might profit in the short term but never in the long term. Remember that the ones with the biggest press are in jail.
I love you, Fist!
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Yukishiro1
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
The very rich have one thing in common. That is they are honest to the core.
This is going too far even for you. 
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Kjarhall
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
The very rich have one thing in common. That is they are honest to the core.
This may be the single most idiotic statement you've ever uttered here, and that's saying ALOT.
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Brother_Tempus
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Taliesihne posted:
War profiteering used to be a crime. It's now an industry.
There was a reason why the Founding Fathers did not want standing armies
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bstulic
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
Their job is to work in the best interest of the stockholders. It is government job to insure they get the best bang for the buck. If you have a vender who do you think they are working for; to get the most for you or to get the most for themselves? Why would it be any different with Government?
Before you go off without thinking remember that putting out the very best product is in the best interest of the stockholders as well. This is true no matter who you are working for. The very rich have one thing in common. That is they are honest to the core. I know that Hollywood told you something different but I'm taking about the real world. The cheats and liars might profit in the short term but never in the long term. Remember that the ones with the biggest press are in jail.
George Soros has awful reputation in Croatia as a liar
Not sure about Donald Trump or Bill gates, though
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theredkay1
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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paulg_68 posted:
SoBaKi posted:
Defense Contractors should be treated in such a way that profit is capped, say at 10%.
If you do that then you eliminate the benefits of dealing with a private company. You'd be better off just nationalizing the business. Which of course is worse than leaving them private with uncapped profit.
The government is the only consumer. Capping profit at 10% is the same as paying less. As the largest purchaser the US can drive down prices if it wants to and this would not eliminate any of the benefits brought by private industry.
This is different than regulating the profit margin of most other goods since American citizens arent going to the store to hire defense contractors. Here the gov't would not be messing with the interaction of private producers and consumers...they are simply making rules about their own government spending.
pauls logic would tell us that WalMart is destroying the economy by paying producers less. That doesnt seem true. Paul is also telling us that controlling government spending is worse than nationalizing an industry. confuzzling
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Yukishiro1
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I think his point was that by capping the profit margin you give contractors no incentives to spend less and great incentive to spend more.
Which is true, but sorta pointless in a world where costs-plus contracts are common.
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Eager_Igraine
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Subject:
Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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SoBaKi posted:
What should be the primary goal of a publicly traded Defense Contractor? Maximize return to its stockholders OR ensure highest level of support to the Government.
Before any of you state it should do both, it cannot. One side or the other suffers or both do.
I've recently found myself on the wrong end of a new edict from upper management to achieve a profit margin that is ridiculously high. So much so that over the weekend, I came to the conclusion that the ONLY way to ensure the goals are achieved is at the potential expense of one or two people's jobs which will subsequently decrease the support I provide to the Government client.
After thinking about this most of the weekend, I came to the conclusion that Defense Contractors should be treated in such a way that profit is capped, say at 10%. That way, the corporation is still making money, albiet on a much more defined basis but it also helps focus the Defense Contractor's support BACK to the Government client.
Anyway, I'm sure this will make a lot of people's heads assplode, but after what has come down from upper management, I don't care.
Does the government have any oversight staffers on its side of the equation? I don't believe that setting an arbitrary limit to profits will have any effect beyond companies lawyering what counts as profits and/or tucking profits in via other means. The problem seems more contracting and oversight or regulation by the government itself. The corruption and negligence on that front is more controllable (I think) than general corporate greed.
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Yukishiro1
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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There are whole government departmental divisions devoted to oversight but they don't really do much.
Government contracting is the biggest scam in the country. Privatization with the gubmint footing the bill is the worst of both worlds. So of course it's the compromise our politicians decide to make. 
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Perhaps honest was not the correct word. The trait was "Their word is their bond". In other words if they way they will do something they will do it. That means honest to me but perhaps others will not see it that way.
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Eager_Igraine
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
There are whole government departmental divisions devoted to oversight but they don't really do much.
This is kind of my point, Yuki. I believe the government needs to mend its internal conflicts rather than attempt an external fix that exists in large part because of the internal conflicts.
Also, sounds like you have a crappy choice ahead there Sobaki.
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Yukishiro1
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Why would the gubmint want to mend its internal conflicts? Politicians are the ones who end up prospering from all those campaign contributions and cushy lobbying jobs after they retire.
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Eager_Igraine
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
Perhaps honest was not the correct word. The trait was "Their word is their bond". In other words if they way they will do something they will do it. That means honest to me but perhaps others will not see it that way.
If you truly believe this, you must absolutely trust everything John Kerry says, right? How about Jared Polis? Mark Warner? Jay Rockefeller? Hilary and Bill Clinton? These folks are all members of "the very rich", so they must be honest and their words are their bond. You said it yourself right?
Based on your own statements, you trust Bill Clinton and believe he keeps his promises. Because after all, he is rich.
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Eager_Igraine
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Publicly traded Defense Contractors - Best interests of the country or stockholders?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Why would the gubmint want to mend its internal conflicts? Politicians are the ones who end up prospering from all those campaign contributions and cushy lobbying jobs after they retire.
I know, right? Given that, I just don't believe that setting a profit ceiling on the contractors who throw money at the government is going to work the way Sobaki wants it to work.
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DemonicXH
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There are limits to how much profit insurance companies can make.
Doesn't stop them from making ass loads of money. They just find different ways as to what they define 'profit' as.
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Kjarhall
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
Perhaps honest was not the correct word. The trait was "Their word is their bond". In other words if they way they will do something they will do it. That means honest to me but perhaps others will not see it that way.
That didn't improve it one iota. I wish i could give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're just naive, but posting history says you're incoherently biased.
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Groucho48
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Problem with the oversight committees is that they are full of people hoping for sweet, sweet contractor jobs as soon as their gig with the government is over.
As for the suggestion that the government take over all design and production. Wouldn't that like double the size of government?
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