Bonzoboy1
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Par for the course.
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http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0226-deport-tax-20120226,0,2010800.story
Akio and Fukado Kawashima came to Southern California in 1984 as lawful Japanese immigrants determined to succeed in business. They operated popular sushi restaurants in Thousand Oaks and Tarzana and recently opened a new eatery in Encino.
But after they underreported their business income in 1991, they paid a hefty price. The Internal Revenue Service hit them with $245,000 in taxes and penalties. The couple pleaded guilty and paid in full. A decade later, the Immigration and Naturalization Service decided to deport them.
Last week, the U.S. Supreme Court delivered the final blow, ruling 6 to 3 that Immigration and Customs Enforcement — as the INS is now known — was within its authority to declare such a tax crime an "aggravated felony," subjecting an immigrant to automatic deportation. Once limited to murderers and drug kingpins, this deportation trigger has steadily expanded over the years.
Under the court's holding, an immigrant who makes a false statement on a tax return could face not only tax charges but also automatic deportation.
The Kawashimas never became U.S. citizens but were granted lawful permanent residency in the 1980s. They pleaded guilty in 1997 to filing a false corporate tax return, and the husband was given a four-month prison sentence.
"They paid a full restitution at the time to everything they owed the government," said Thomas Whalen, a Washington attorney who represented the couple before the high court.
These people paid their back taxes and fines, I heard on the news that they employ 240 people so they have been contributing to the economy but they are getting tossed out and yet out government bends over backwards to let illegals stay. 
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Yukishiro1
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Par for the course.
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Seems pretty stupid. Especially the lack of a statute of limitations. They shouldn't be able to decide to deport you a decade later. You can't leave that sort of thing hanging over someone forever like that.
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Bonzoboy1
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Par for the course.
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They should just move to a different address and live as illegals, I doubt their life would change much.
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Z-Elder
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Par for the course.
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The Government is whacked out on politics instead of being sane.
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Sansfear
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Par for the course.
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While I disagree with their being deported, an important distinction is that their case involved criminal tax violation, not civil.
The husband went to jail for 4 months in the case, it wasn't just a civil fine.
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paulg_68
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Par for the course.
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Sansfear posted:
While I disagree with their being deported, an important distinction is that their case involved criminal tax violation, not civil.
The husband went to jail for 4 months in the case, it wasn't just a civil fine.
Ah, I was with Yuki on this one until you mentioned the guy went to jail.
Anything worth jailing someone for 4 months is worth deporting him.
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NuEM
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Par for the course.
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So that's what they mean when they talk about job creators being over-taxed and leaving your country. 
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Manegarm
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Par for the course.
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NuEM posted:
So that's what they mean when they talk about job creators being over-taxed and leaving your country.
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RHWarrior
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Par for the course.
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paulg_68 posted:
...
Ah, I was with Yuki on this one until you mentioned the guy went to jail.
Anything worth jailing someone for 4 months is worth deporting him.
Well that implies you could deport many "established" Americans too, question is where.
Hint: keep them the eff away from Europe
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Urk_VN
Title: Orderly Randomizer
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Par for the course.
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Manegarm posted:
NuEM posted:
So that's what they mean when they talk about job creators being over-taxed and leaving your country.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Par for the course.
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RHWarrior posted:
paulg_68 posted:
...
Ah, I was with Yuki on this one until you mentioned the guy went to jail.
Anything worth jailing someone for 4 months is worth deporting him.
Well that implies you could deport many "established" Americans too, question is where.
Hint: keep them the eff away from Europe
Except they're not Americans. They were never granted citizenship. If productive members of society can't achieve citizenship, something is wrong with the system. If they were too lazy or didn't want citizenship, then that's their mistake.
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paulg_68
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Par for the course.
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Most likely they never sought citizenship. Lots of people get their permanent status and stop there.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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Yukishiro1
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Par for the course.
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paulg_68 posted:
Sansfear posted:
While I disagree with their being deported, an important distinction is that their case involved criminal tax violation, not civil.
The husband went to jail for 4 months in the case, it wasn't just a civil fine.
Ah, I was with Yuki on this one until you mentioned the guy went to jail.
Anything worth jailing someone for 4 months is worth deporting him.
But not 10 years afterward. They should have to make the decision right away or in a decent period of time. It's not fair to people re: expectations to just leave the threat of deportation - if we feel like it - hanging over their heads forever.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Par for the course.
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Yeah, i expect they stopped when they got permanent status too. I bet they regret that decision.
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Yukishiro1
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Par for the course.
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It probably has to do with Japan's rules on dual citizenship.
Technically speaking Japan doesn't allow dual citizenship. If you get American citizenship, you're supposed to renounce your Japanese citizenship.
In practice America doesn't report to Japan and Japan doesn't ask. So lots of people hold both citizenships and have passports from both countries, they just don't tell Japan they're also US citizens. But people who feel uncomfortable with that often won't get US citizenship and will just stay a permanent resident instead.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Par for the course.
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Why would you need dual citizenship if you plan on living in one country permanently?
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Yukishiro1
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If you give up your Japanese citizenship, you don't get permanent resident status in Japan (you arn't resident, after all). So if you decide to give up Japanese citizenship for American citizenship, you end up with American citizenship and nothing in regard to Japan. So you have to go through the tourist lines each time and have to go back on a tourist visa and you have no right to stay in Japan any more if for some reason you want to move back. You also lose eligibility for the Japanese pension system to the extent that you had worked in Japan before you came.
Meanwhile, if you choose to keep your Japanese citizenship and just get PLR in America, you still have a right to live in both countries as long as you want and can go freely back and forth between the two.
Most people think the latter is a better choice. Unless you are a really damn sure you're never going to want to go back to Japan for any length of time longer than 3 months, it doesn't make sense to burn that bridge. If you haven't had kids yet there is that to think of as well. Kids born in America to Japanese citizens will get dual citizenship (until they're 22, when they technically have to choose, although most don't and just keep both). If you renounce your Japanese citizenship you are not only burning your own bridges with Japan, you're burning the bridges of your kids too.
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NuEM
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Par for the course.
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I'm a citizen of Japan. I just never told them and they never asked.
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Allstarslacker
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Par for the course.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
paulg_68 posted:
Sansfear posted:
While I disagree with their being deported, an important distinction is that their case involved criminal tax violation, not civil.
The husband went to jail for 4 months in the case, it wasn't just a civil fine.
Ah, I was with Yuki on this one until you mentioned the guy went to jail.
Anything worth jailing someone for 4 months is worth deporting him.
But not 10 years afterward. They should have to make the decision right away or in a decent period of time. It's not fair to people re: expectations to just leave the threat of deportation - if we feel like it - hanging over their heads forever.
If they're not citizens why should the threat of deportation not always loom over their head?
They were guests. Guests only get to stay at the pleasure of the host.
If you want a right to be here become a citizen, or choose to stay a permanent guest who can always be made to leave.
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Yukishiro1
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Par for the course.
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Allstarslacker posted:
If they're not citizens why should the threat of deportation not always loom over their head?
They were guests. Guests only get to stay at the pleasure of the host.
If you want a right to be here become a citizen, or choose to stay a permanent guest who can always be made to leave.
Uh that's not how things work and why we have a permanent resident classification in the first place. We realized a long time ago that having a system where we could kick anyone who wasn't a citizen out at any time for any reason wasn't good for anyone involved.
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Bonzoboy1
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Par for the course.
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I would be more likely to come down on the side of deporting them if the tax codes, business especially, weren't such a quagmire. Many people, citizens included, have run afoul of the IRS when they really thought they were doing the right thing.
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Yukishiro1
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Par for the course.
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If they wanted to deport them right away for it that would be one thing. Waiting 10 years and then randomly annoucning they're going to be deported when they had no idea beforehand is totally unacceptable. At the very least the statute of limitations for deportations should be the same as for the underlying crime. And really they should have to decide whether to deport someone within say 365 days of criminal conviction, or at the very least 365 days of when they get out of prison.
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reesescups
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Par for the course.
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NuEM posted:
So that's what they mean when they talk about job creators being over-taxed and leaving your country.
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