Medical costs for enrollees in the health-care law’s high-risk insurance pools are expected to more than double initial predictions, the Obama administration said Thursday in a report on the new program.

Elkad posted:

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$28,000 per person instead of $13,000

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Elkad posted:

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Or we could just return the medical system to something resembling a free market.

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Scarne posted:

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Elkad posted:

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Or we could just return the medical system to something resembling a free market.

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No such thing ever existed.

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Elkad posted:

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Scarne posted:

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Elkad posted:

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Or we could just return the medical system to something resembling a free market.

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No such thing ever existed.

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Resembling? Sure it has.

Remove the bans on re-importing devices and medicines.
Require identical fees regardless of payment method.
Get rid of EMTLA in it's current form. (you can require hospitals to help people, just pay them instantly with fed funds, and then put it back on the patient as a tax lien).
Let pharmacists prescribe non-narcotics again.
Require published price lists for procedures.

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WaPo posted:

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The PCIP program will phase out in 2014, when insurers will be required to accept all applicants regardless of their health-care status.

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Elocism posted:

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so higher costs for everyone?

super

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Szerek posted:

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What we need is a single payer system like every other 1st world country. Is it really that hard to look at all the other systems and take what works for each and remove what doesn't work for each?

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DemonicXH posted:

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Elocism posted:

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so higher costs for everyone?

super

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Health insurance premiums have been on the rise for the past few years since Obamacare was introduced.

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Ashmaele posted:

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Szerek posted:

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What we need is a single payer system like every other 1st world country. Is it really that hard to look at all the other systems and take what works for each and remove what doesn't work for each?

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When the Reps screw up again there will be a new wave of Dems elected and we'll get it. Eventually.

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Szerek posted:

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Ashmaele posted:

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Szerek posted:

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What we need is a single payer system like every other 1st world country. Is it really that hard to look at all the other systems and take what works for each and remove what doesn't work for each?

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When the Reps screw up again there will be a new wave of Dems elected and we'll get it. Eventually.

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I don't think so. Every time they tell us they are going to make something better for us as far as healthcare goes it is tilted heavily toward more profitability for industry. There are a thousand ways both Medicare Part D and Obamacare could have been better, but what we end up with is a system that is generally about as bad as it could be for the consumer and a windfall for corporate America.

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Eager_Igraine posted:

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DemonicXH posted:

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Elocism posted:

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so higher costs for everyone?

super

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Health insurance premiums have been on the rise for the past few years since Obamacare was introduced.

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Our health insurance premiums went up 150% under Bush and 10% under Obama.

just sayin'

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DemonicXH posted:

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I am a licensed insurance agent so I get all types of crap from both sides of the fence regarding Obamacare.

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Szerek posted:

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What we need is a single payer system like every other 1st world country. Is it really that hard to look at all the other systems and take what works for each and remove what doesn't work for each?

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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Szerek posted:

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What we need is a single payer system like every other 1st world country. Is it really that hard to look at all the other systems and take what works for each and remove what doesn't work for each?

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Most of the 1st world countries DO NOT have single payer systems. Think before you post.

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Elkad posted:

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Scarne posted:

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Elkad posted:

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Or we could just return the medical system to something resembling a free market.

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No such thing ever existed.

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Resembling? Sure it has.

Remove the bans on re-importing devices and medicines.
Require identical fees regardless of payment method.
Get rid of EMTLA in it's current form. (you can require hospitals to help people, just pay them instantly with fed funds, and then put it back on the patient as a tax lien).
Let pharmacists prescribe non-narcotics again.
Require published price lists for procedures.


Note that the price stuff applies to every other business in the country already. You can't charge 2 people different prices for an oil change because one wrote a check from BofA and the other wrote one from Wachovia. But you can charge a Blue Cross customer a different price than a Aetna customer.

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paulg_68 posted:

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This is how it always goes. Next will come the revelations that service quality will be lower than originally promised.

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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Szerek posted:

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What we need is a single payer system like every other 1st world country. Is it really that hard to look at all the other systems and take what works for each and remove what doesn't work for each?

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Most of the 1st world countries DO NOT have single payer systems. Think before you post.

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The idea that insurance companies will cover everyone and nobody will pay for it is pretty silly.

Yukishiro1 posted:

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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Szerek posted:

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What we need is a single payer system like every other 1st world country. Is it really that hard to look at all the other systems and take what works for each and remove what doesn't work for each?

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Most of the 1st world countries DO NOT have single payer systems. Think before you post.

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Not really. Britain has single payer. Canada has single payer. Most of continental europe has national health insurance of some sort or another, even if it isn't strictly speaking single payer. So does Japan, although the Japanese system doesn't provide 100% coverage. South Korea has a similar system. So does Taiwan.

I can't really think of a 1st world country besides America that doesn't have single payer or something close to it.

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article posted:

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To grasp how the French system works, think about Medicare for the elderly in the U.S., then expand that to encompass the entire population. French medicine is based on a widely held value that the healthy should pay for care of the sick. Everyone has access to the same basic coverage through national insurance funds, to which every employer and employee contributes. The government picks up the tab for the unemployed who cannot gain coverage through a family member.

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wiki posted:

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Germany has the world's oldest universal health care system, with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's social legislation, which included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, Accident Insurance Bill of 1884, and Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889. In Britain, the National Insurance Act 1911 marked the first steps there towards universal health care, covering most employed persons and their financial dependents and all persons who had been continuous contributors to the scheme for at least five years whether they were working or not. This system of health insurance continued in force until the creation of the National Health Service in 1948 which extended health care security to all legal residents. Most current universal health care systems were implemented in the period following the Second World War as a process of deliberate health care reform, intended to make health care available to all, in the spirit of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948, signed by every country doing so. The US did not ratify the social and economic rights sections, including Article 25's right to health.[2]

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article posted:

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This is how Japan keeps cost so low. The Japanese Health Ministry tightly controls the price of health care down to the smallest detail. Every two years, the health care industry and the health ministry negotiate a fixed price for every procedure and every drug.

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article posted:

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Healthcare insurance is a part of the Belgian social security system and to benefit you must join a health insurance fund mutuelle (mutualité) or ziekenfonds (mutualiteit).
Once you are employed by a Belgian company, your contributions and those of your employer will be automatically deducted from your salary by the National Office for Social Security.

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sweeny_comodore posted:

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Elkad posted:

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Get rid of EMTLA in it's current form. (you can require hospitals to help people, just pay them instantly with fed funds, and then put it back on the patient as a tax lien).

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lol
yeah
thats a smart idea.
nothing like a 500k tax bill against your 40k annual income after you broke your leg and got an infection.

if you want to do that, why not just instate a national tax pool that pays everyone bills?

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GrilledCheez posted:

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This is obamacare. The idea that insurance companies will cover everyone and nobody will pay for it is pretty silly.

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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Sweeny, I never said they werent universal health care. I said they weren't single payer. Try reading next time.

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Elkad posted:

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The point is that hospitals are forced to take anyone, and in some areas don't get paid for a large portion of their patients. Most of those people are just trying to score pain pills, or a free meal, or are too cheap to buy their baby some cold medicine. After all, it's free! Use the emergency room for everything. No need to call a taxi, the noisy white bus will take you for free. Heck, you don't even need to have a working phone, any old junker will dial 911.

So all those costs get passed on to the rest of us, by the hospital overcharging those of us that do pay. But if "welfare mommy" knew a bottle of triaminic for her runny-nosed brat was going to chop $500 off her income tax return, maybe she'd scrape up some change and buy it herself.

If you want to argue help for catastrophic stuff, sure. It's not the big rare problems that are expensive, its the hordes of people stealing 10 grand a year worth of unnecessary emergency room visits.

I know whole families who never pay a medical bill. They just go to the emergency room for everything. Some just don't care about their credit rating. The smart ones just give a fake name/SSN and never even see a bill.

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sweeny_comodore posted:

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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Sweeny, I never said they werent universal health care. I said they weren't single payer. Try reading next time.

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nobody else said they were single payer either

try reading.

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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I can't really think of a 1st world country besides America that doesn't have single payer or something close to it –Yukishiro1

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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I can't really think of a 1st world country besides America that doesn't have single payer or something close to it –Yukishiro1

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Those countries you listed all have something close to single payer. It may not actually be a single payer, as I noted, but it's universal health care ultimately paid for through taxes.

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theredkay1 posted:

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Almost all of the healthcare costs in this country are end of life care. You are arguing over peanuts and dumbing down the thread with your need for class warfare.

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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There is no doubt we have unfair, unaffordable, and ineffecient health care in the U.S. The U.S. has every model of health care insurance. We are very unique and very inefficient.

For most working people under 65 we are Germany, France, or Japan (albiet a way more expensive version). The worker and employer share the premiums for insurance policy.

For Native Americans, millitary personnel, and veterans we are Britain or Cuba. The VA and much of the Pentagon's Tri-Star system involves doctors who are government employees working in government owned clinics and hospitals. Following the Beveridge Model, Americans in these systems never get a medical bill. The Indian Health Service also provides free care in government clinics.

For those over 65 we are Canada. U.S. Medicare is essentially a National Health Insurance scheme, with the near-universal participation and the low administravive costs that chareterize such systems.

For 45 million uninsured Americans we are Cambodia or rural India. Out of pocket.

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Elkad posted:

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theredkay1 posted:

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Almost all of the healthcare costs in this country are end of life care. You are arguing over peanuts and dumbing down the thread with your need for class warfare.

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Old people spending a half-million their final year of life is a completely separate issue.

We need fair pricing. Try paying cash at an emergency room, you'll see. Prices HUNDREDS of times higher than what an insured patient would pay. All because of EMTLA.

That makes it very difficult for people without insurance to get emergent care.

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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It isn't a direct comparison, it is Bismark model of which there are variations. For those in the U.S. working under 65 use a variation of the Bismark model, just as Germany as a whole uses a variation of the Bismark model. I don't mention shared risk because the texts I have read do not even mention it, so I am not sure how much of a factor it is, if it even exists as you claim at all.

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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I understand what you are talking about with shared risks, but I believe you looking at things from an insurance company with a profit based perspective. I believe there is a reason that shared risks is not mentioned at all in these books I have read such a The Healing of America: A Global Quest For Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care or some of the medical commentaries in the university database I have briefly glanced through. If you can link something or that talks about German sickness funds and shared risks then that would be something, but I have not found anything in the last 10 minutes and have to give up to drive to work.

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article posted:

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The GSG of 1993 mandates an equalization of contribution rates across all sickness funds by authorizing payments to funds burdened with health risks associated with age and gender.

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