theredkay1
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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Two recent studies indicate that the oft cited, almost mythical, Laffer Curve is in fact a reality. The far right uses this theory as a central argument against higher taxes but usually they cant point to any empirical work which supports the theory....it existed only in an 'its possible to imagine this scenario' kind of way.
Sorry liberals, read em and weep.
paper 1 posted:
'we find that the top tax rate could potentially be set as high as 83%' http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/7402
83%!?!?! Thank god we have another study, maybe we can average the two.
paper 2 posted:
'tax revenues would be maximized with a tax rate of 84 percent'
http://www.nber.org/papers/w17860
To be fair, the writers of these papers do have college degrees and therefore may be Satan's agents.
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reesescups
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If you think any tax policy that has an effective tax bracket anywhere near 80% is sustainable in any manner what so ever - you are a point blank ID10T period
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Tych2
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Man if I knew I was going to be taxed that high I would find other sources of compensation. Small salary and other things to offset it.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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reesescups posted:
If you think any tax policy that has an effective tax bracket anywhere near 80% is sustainable in any manner what so ever - you are a point blank ID10T period
Uh, it's been that high before. For what, like 50 years until zombie Reagan?
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Z-Elder
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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Voodoo-Dahl posted:
reesescups posted:
If you think any tax policy that has an effective tax bracket anywhere near 80% is sustainable in any manner what so ever - you are a point blank ID10T period
Uh, it's been that high before. For what, like 50 years until zombie Reagan?
yep
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Scarne
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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reesescups posted:
If you think any tax policy that has an effective tax bracket anywhere near 80% is sustainable in any manner what so ever - you are a point blank ID10T period
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213
The top tax bracket in the US from 1936 to 1964 was near or above 80%. And it goes even longer if you count down to 70% as being somewhere near 80%. That sounds pretty well sustained and covered probably the greatest stretch of prosperity in the US. 
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reesescups
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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Voodoo-Dahl posted:
reesescups posted:
If you think any tax policy that has an effective tax bracket anywhere near 80% is sustainable in any manner what so ever - you are a point blank ID10T period
Uh, it's been that high before. For what, like 50 years until zombie Reagan?
right... keep going... and then what happened?
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reesescups
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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Scarne posted:
reesescups posted:
If you think any tax policy that has an effective tax bracket anywhere near 80% is sustainable in any manner what so ever - you are a point blank ID10T period
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213
The top tax bracket in the US from 1936 to 1964 was near or above 80%. And it goes even longer if you count down to 70% as being somewhere near 80%. That sounds pretty well sustained and covered probably the greatest stretch of prosperity in the US.
Right... Almost there... Keep going... and then what happened?
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Scarne
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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reesescups posted:
Scarne posted:
reesescups posted:
If you think any tax policy that has an effective tax bracket anywhere near 80% is sustainable in any manner what so ever - you are a point blank ID10T period
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213
The top tax bracket in the US from 1936 to 1964 was near or above 80%. And it goes even longer if you count down to 70% as being somewhere near 80%. That sounds pretty well sustained and covered probably the greatest stretch of prosperity in the US.
Right... Almost there... Keep going... and then what happened?
Then the rates were cut and the national debt exploded? 
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ZigmundZag
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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The point isn't to tax the top bracket near 80%. The point is that quibbling between 35% and 38% because rich people will stop working so hard is stupid.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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reesescups posted:
Voodoo-Dahl posted:
reesescups posted:
If you think any tax policy that has an effective tax bracket anywhere near 80% is sustainable in any manner what so ever - you are a point blank ID10T period
Uh, it's been that high before. For what, like 50 years until zombie Reagan?
right... keep going... and then what happened?
The greatest transfer of wealth in American history followed by the destruction of the middle class?
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reesescups
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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The point is - it wasn't sustainable... Those paying in that/those brackets fought against it and eventually found a way to take control of the system.
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reesescups
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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ZigmundZag posted:
The point is that quibbling between 35% and 38% because rich people will stop working so hard is stupid.
and on that I agree 100%...
First, they don't work that hard.
Secondly bumping them up a few % points with the way our society is run and is structured is only sensible.
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Brother_Tempus
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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Art Laffer is an idiot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYkFYdLTTw8
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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The left is always in favor of some kind of slavery to the state, but that is not the weird part. The weird part is that they never make the connection that they are in fact despotic oppressors when ever they are given the chance.
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Jaedence
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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reesescups posted:
The point is - it wasn't sustainable... Those paying in that/those brackets fought against it and eventually found a way to take control of the system.
Yes, the rich were certainly suffering badly before the tax code was revised....
SUFFERING!!! GOD! WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE RICH!!!
And now they don't pay their fair share of taxes and we have massive debt, class warfare and the loss of the middle class.
Thumbs up.
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reesescups
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Jaedence posted:
reesescups posted:
The point is - it wasn't sustainable... Those paying in that/those brackets fought against it and eventually found a way to take control of the system.
Yes, the rich were certainly suffering badly before the tax code was revised....
SUFFERING!!! GOD! WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE RICH!!!
You thoughts, emotions and or concerns towards their well being is meaningless. As on point as your commentary might be - they didn't agree. Not only did they not agree, they did something about it.
ie - It wasn't a sustainable tax bracket.
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Seething199
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Jaedence posted:
reesescups posted:
The point is - it wasn't sustainable... Those paying in that/those brackets fought against it and eventually found a way to take control of the system.
Yes, the rich were certainly suffering badly before the tax code was revised....
SUFFERING!!! GOD! WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE RICH!!!
And now they don't pay their fair share of taxes and we have massive debt, class warfare and the loss of the middle class.
Thumbs up.
but we're all better off because 5% of people have things orders of magnitude easier while the rest have it harder. THIS IS QUITE A VICTORY FOR SOCIETY
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Brother_Tempus
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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Jaedence posted:
[quote=reesescups]The point is - it wasn't sustainable... Those paying in that/those brackets fought against it and eventually found a way to take control of the system.
Yes, the rich were certainly suffering badly before the tax code was revised....
SUFFERING!!! GOD! WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE RICH!!!
/quote]
why nit? They have the same rights and status as the poor if one small-mindedly lumps individuals into groups
why should the supposed rich be stoien from more than the poor?
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Seething199
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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this isn't survivor island, dogg. this is a society. in a society, the well off pitch in extra for the poor. if rich people don't like it, they're more than free to move to some 3rd world country, build a plantation, and post up armed guards to protect their lewts.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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theredkay1
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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reesescups posted:
ie - It wasn't a sustainable tax bracket.
I get your point....but the conclusion you are making is a bit absurd.
"The only sustainable policy is what exists right now!"
This is proven wrong every year.
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reesescups
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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theredkay1 posted:
"The only sustainable policy is what exists right now!"
You think that's the conclusion I am making?
There is nothing sustainable about our current tax policy, nothing. Our entire tax structure is barely hanging on. It is unraveling at a pace of rhetoric that is prolly unmatched in our history.
I bet 5-10 years from now the tax structure will be completely different than how it exists today.
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theredkay1
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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Brother_Tempus posted:
why should the supposed rich be stoien from more than the poor?
the rich are beneficiaries of the massive investment made by prior generations of tax payers. Infrastructure, schools, a legal system, healthcare, R&D efforts, using the military to appropriate cheap land for settlers.....these are the public expenditures that made America rich and it cost previous generations a ton of money to set things up for those who benefit today.
Your desire to squeeze this prior investment for all its worth while rejecting investments for the future is 3 parts ignorance, 1 part greed. The rich have benefited the most from the investments made by prior generations, they get to make the biggest investment in the future.
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Ptilk
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Of course it was sustainable.
The top rate was 50% or more....for more than 50 years. Anything that lasts 50 years is sustainable, unless you are being a nitpicking lunatic.
38% for the next 50 years would pay off the deficit and help us rebuild our falling apart infrastructure...when combined, of course, with a 2 or 3% increase for everyone else as well. Hell, it wouldn't even take 50 years.
If that is "too much" for some to pay, tough. Would you rather have 62% of a million, or 90% of 8 bucks?
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Brother_Tempus
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theredkay1 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
why should the supposed rich be stoien from more than the poor?
the rich are beneficiaries of the massive investment made by prior generations of tax payers.
that is called society and every individual benefits from it not just one subset if individuals.
So agian why?
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theredkay1
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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reesescups posted:
theredkay1 posted:
"The only sustainable policy is what exists right now!"
You think that's the conclusion I am making?
There is nothing sustainable about our current tax policy, nothing. Our entire tax structure is barely hanging on. It is unraveling at a pace of rhetoric that is prolly unmatched in our history.
I bet 5-10 years from now the tax structure will be completely different than how it exists today.
So the rich are powerful enough to shape tax policy sometimes....but not powerful enough to shape tax policy all the time? I dont think that implies anything about 'sustainability'...only that it isnt the policy right now.
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Yukishiro1
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The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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The relative value of a dollar of marginal income declines as income increases. This is the basic insight behind any progressive taxation system. Progressive taxation seeks to balance the tax burden in such a way that people feel it the same in real terms, not in abstract numbers. A 10% tax rate is much more burdensome on $20k of income than $200k. The person who pays %30 tax on 200k is actually suffering less of a burden than the person who pays 10% tax on $20k in terms of the impact of that taxation on their ability to live comfortably.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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I love how the liberals always bring up the debt going up after tax cuts. The fact that revenues increased by 100% has been prove over and over again. The problem with the debt is the same as it has always been; more and more spending. It is one of those points that is explained over and over to liberals but never seems to sink in. A month later they are claiming the debt was caused by tax reduction.
Of course there is a point where tax reduction will reduce revenue. Where we disagree is where that point is. Conservatives think it is somewhere between 10% and 25%. Liberals think it is somewhere between 80% and 100%. Most but not all liberals understand people will seldom work for nothing.
Republicans want lots of money to spend on their friends. Democrats want lots of money to spend on their friends. Both parties pretended to tax the rich while giving special breaks to their friends. Lately the Republicans seem to be holding the line on spending and taxes. Not that I think for a second they will not go back to tax and spend (but not as much) if we don't hold their feet to the fire. Sadly the only way we can punish Republicans is to reward Democrats.
Papers like this I take with a grain of salt. They set out to prove something and by God they prove it. Liberals seem to believe whatever supports what they already believe and disbelieve anything else.
This "paper" seems to be very narrowly focused with no attempt to see if there are any other factors than tax. It showed what they wanted it to show and then stopped.
Of course there is an army of liberals ready to slander and missquote me thinking it supports their point somehow. Laughable.
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
I love how the liberals always bring up the debt going up after tax cuts.
Debt isn't important. We keep being told that. 
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theredkay1 posted:
The Republicans Were Right
No comments really, but saving for later finger pointing and general mockery.
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theredkay1
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
Of course there is a point where tax reduction will reduce revenue. Where we disagree is where that point is. Conservatives think it is somewhere between 10% and 25%. Liberals think it is somewhere between 80% and 100%. Most but not all liberals understand people will seldom work for nothing.
The 1990's seem to indicate the conservatives are way off. Do real world events ever play a role in your internal dialogue?
Or maybe the 90's were one big trick orchestrated by the liberals. The whole booming economy, rising wages, rising hours worked, low unemployment, shrinking deficits....all a big scam designed to trick us into socialism.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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theredkay1 posted:
'tax revenues would be maximized with a tax rate of 84 percent'
http://www.nber.org/papers/w17860
Send me some $'s to subscribe and I might bother to read and critique the paper.
Otherwise... no.
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reesescups
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
theredkay1 posted:
'tax revenues would be maximized with a tax rate of 84 percent'
http://www.nber.org/papers/w17860
Send me some $'s to subscribe and I might bother to read and critique the paper.
Can't be bothered to spend your own money on your own education...
/Always looking for a hand out...
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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I don't make it a habit of paying for propaganda.
Except for my cable subscription which includes Fox and CNN.
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theredkay1 posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
Of course there is a point where tax reduction will reduce revenue. Where we disagree is where that point is. Conservatives think it is somewhere between 10% and 25%. Liberals think it is somewhere between 80% and 100%. Most but not all liberals understand people will seldom work for nothing.
The 1990's seem to indicate the conservatives are way off. Do real world events ever play a role in your internal dialogue?
Or maybe the 90's were one big trick orchestrated by the liberals. The whole booming economy, rising wages, rising hours worked, low unemployment, shrinking deficits....all a big scam designed to trick us into socialism.
For those of you who did not live in the 90's, or liberals with memory problems; the big push was to cut spending. That is what finally balanced the budget. As a matter of fact it was not balanced. They used accounting tricks to make is seem so. A lot of people were overjoyed at finally getting something done. Sadly the Republicans decided that the way to majority was to buy votes like the Democrats did. We slapped then down in 2008 but liberals, as is normal, got the wrong message. Now that the Republicans are on track it is time to remove the big spending racist liars.
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paulg_68
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theredkay1 posted:
Two recent studies indicate that the oft cited, almost mythical, Laffer Curve is in fact a reality.
The only people who ever mention the Laffer Curve are dumbass socialists like yourself.
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
For those of you who did not live in the 90's, or liberals with memory problems; the big push was to cut spending. That is what finally balanced the budget.
You are not worth the time to converse with. Here are some facts for you though.
Total Federal Spending by Fiscal year:
1988: $1,064.4 Billion
1989: $1,143.7 Billion
1990: $1,253.0 Billion
1991: $1,324.2 Billion
1992: $1,381.5 Billion
1993: $1,409.4 Billion
1994: $1,461.8 Billion
1995: $1,515.7 Billion
1996: $1,560.5 Billion
1997: $1,601.1 Billion
1998: $1,652.5 Billion
1999: $1,701.8 Billion
2000: $1,789.0 Billion
2001: $1,862.9 Billion
www.usgovernmentspending.com
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Sansfear
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reesescups posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
For those of you who did not live in the 90's, or liberals with memory problems; the big push was to cut spending. That is what finally balanced the budget.
You are not worth the time to converse with. Here are some facts for you though.
Total Federal Spending by Fiscal year:
1988: $1,064.4 Billion
1989: $1,143.7 Billion
1990: $1,253.0 Billion
1991: $1,324.2 Billion
1992: $1,381.5 Billion
1993: $1,409.4 Billion
1994: $1,461.8 Billion
1995: $1,515.7 Billion
1996: $1,560.5 Billion
1997: $1,601.1 Billion
1998: $1,652.5 Billion
1999: $1,701.8 Billion
2000: $1,789.0 Billion
2001: $1,862.9 Billion
That *IS* cutting spending, according to Obama and friends.
Smaller increases = cutting spending.
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reesescups
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Sansfear posted:
reesescups posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
For those of you who did not live in the 90's, or liberals with memory problems; the big push was to cut spending. That is what finally balanced the budget.
You are not worth the time to converse with. Here are some facts for you though.
Total Federal Spending by Fiscal year:
1988: $1,064.4 Billion
1989: $1,143.7 Billion
1990: $1,253.0 Billion
1991: $1,324.2 Billion
1992: $1,381.5 Billion
1993: $1,409.4 Billion
1994: $1,461.8 Billion
1995: $1,515.7 Billion
1996: $1,560.5 Billion
1997: $1,601.1 Billion
1998: $1,652.5 Billion
1999: $1,701.8 Billion
2000: $1,789.0 Billion
2001: $1,862.9 Billion
That *IS* cutting spending, according to Obama and friends.
Smaller increases = cutting spending.
My bad - I forgot Fist was a huge fan and personal friend of Obama...
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Actually government budgets are very much impacted by inflation and caseload changes which result in large current service increases year over year. It is basically pointless to look at those numbers without context.
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
It is basically pointless to look at those numbers without context.
Oh my bad - I thought I provided the context. Here let me help you out with some bold, and then the facts from that context highlighted.
reesescups posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
For those of you who did not live in the 90's, or liberals with memory problems; the big push was to cut spending. That is what finally balanced the budget.
You are not worth the time to converse with. Here are some facts for you though.
Total Federal Spending by Fiscal year:
1988: $1,064.4 Billion
1989: $1,143.7 Billion
1990: $1,253.0 Billion
1991: $1,324.2 Billion
1992: $1,381.5 Billion
1993: $1,409.4 Billion
1994: $1,461.8 Billion
1995: $1,515.7 Billion
1996: $1,560.5 Billion
1997: $1,601.1 Billion
1998: $1,652.5 Billion
1999: $1,701.8 Billion
2000: $1,789.0 Billion
2001: $1,862.9 Billion
www.usgovernmentspending.com
HTHerpa helps your Derpda
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Laffing out loud!
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Actually government budgets are very much impacted by the debt they accumulate
Fixed for accuracy
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NuEM posted:
Laffing out loud!
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Can someone point out where on the Laffer curve we are at this point in time? Please show your work, thanks.
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reesescups posted:
HTHerpa helps your Derpda
Lol
Whether you use cuts to mean actual expenditures reductions from the prior year or cuts to the current service budget it is still important to have context. Fist is a complete moron but his use of the word cut fits the common use of the word cut in government budgeting more so than your use. I am not trying to endorse one use over the other but if you are unaware of how government budgets are made you can be easily confused by the use of the word cut.
With that in mind, current service changes by definition are not policy additions or cuts. Current service changes may grow or cut spending based on the things I already listed, (for example inflation and caseload).
A lot of what Congress needs to do is address growing current service needs and that means cutting services or finding ways to reduce expenses in some other way. For example paying employees less than you would without the change or reducing the services covered by a medical entitlement.
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Fist is a complete moron but his use of the word cut fits the common use of the word cut in government budgeting more so than your use.
And yet I went by the real definition and a definition that he himself would use. Not some fancy trickery with budgets, projections, and those fancy mysterious percentage things...
Don't hurt yourself trying, there is nothing there to argue or discuss - I was giving dumb guy some stats so he could have the opportunity to think a bit more about what he believes to be true...
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paulg_68 posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Two recent studies indicate that the oft cited, almost mythical, Laffer Curve is in fact a reality.
The only people who ever mention the Laffer Curve are dumbass socialists like yourself.
You forgot Art Laffer tho
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So libtards are still mad about something some guy said 38 years ago?
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paulg_68 posted:
So libtards are still mad about something some guy said 38 years ago?
That's one helluva troll, eh?
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paulg_68 posted:
So libtards are still mad about something some guy said 38 years ago?
Actually he was on Fucks & Friends this morning babbling about it and praising Al Gore for some such madness.
But when policy is being set and proposed TODAY based on it i think that makes it relevant.
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ok, when the top tax bracket was 80%, what was our tax revenue as a % of GDP?
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reesescups posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Fist is a complete moron but his use of the word cut fits the common use of the word cut in government budgeting more so than your use.
And yet I went by the real definition and a definition that he himself would use. Not some fancy trickery with budgets, projections, and those fancy mysterious percentage things...
Don't hurt yourself trying, there is nothing there to argue or discuss - I was giving dumb guy some stats so he could have the opportunity to think a bit more about what he believes to be true...
Actually the argument over what constitutes a cut and what does not is a very common argument. It is one of the more common semantic debates in government budgeting.
Your “real†definition doesn’t work all that well because it fails to address the policy decisions being made and confuses current service requirements which tend to increase spending and policy decisions.
You are not the first person to be confused over the use of the word and it is important to understand how the word is used when talking about government budgeting.
Or maybe you want to go on a letter writing campaign where you explain to everyone that uses the word cut the way I described is using it wrong.
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
It is one of the more common semantic debates in government budgeting.
Exactly... you and paulg and whoever can knock yourself out.
reesescups posted:
Don't hurt yourself trying, there is nothing there to argue or discuss - I was giving dumb guy some stats so he could have the opportunity to think a bit more about what he believes to be true...
Numbers get bigger - numbers not get smaller...
me think cut mean minus not add
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The numbers potentially did get smaller relative to the current service budget.
You will be constantly confused by the word cut if you think it is only being used in reference to the previous year spending levels. When Fist used the word or if I read the word cut in an article I would assume it meant cuts to the current service budget. You are assuming it means to last year's spending but that is not really how the term is used. If you are going to whine about Fist's use then you might as well get your pen out because he is hardly the only person using it that way.
If you want to learn why it is used that way then I will tell you. If you want to act like there is a real way and a wrong way then you will be consistantly confused about the meaning being communicated by people.
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
The numbers potentially did get smaller relative to the current service budget.
That's hocuspocus stuff with fancy percentages and crap - all phoney numbers.
A cut is a cut, right Fist?
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-Espiritu- posted:
ok, when the top tax bracket was 80%, what was our tax revenue as a % of GDP?
The average income tax revenue as a % of GDP:
1944-81 = 7.51%
1982-2011 = 7.99
1993-2001 = 8.79
2003-2011 = 7.17
To give some perspective, If the 2003-11 rate had been 7.51% thats around $410 billion in extra tax revenue. If it had been 8.79% thats around $2 trillion.
So these numbers probably look like tax collections really went up when rates were lowered. But dont forget this stat has both a numerator and denominator.
Here is the average growth in income taxes (first number)and the average growth in GDP:
1944-81 = 7.5%, 7.4%
1982-2011 = 4.1%, 5.4%
1993-2001 = 9.8%, 5.8%
2003-2011 = 1.2%, 4.0%
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/#
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=203
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forget 7.51% or even 8.79%... lets aim high. Lets go for the highest revenue as a %GPD we've ever achieved 10.2%. Of course everyone knows the rate will have to fluctuate to sustain this level, and it is a given that taxes have to go up.
HUZZAH, we've generated $454,000,000,000. That still leaves us with a $1,736,000,000,000 (Obama's worst year) or just about $1.2T average per year deficit. When you start talking deficits, you need to use the overall revenue numbers and expenditures including entitlement programs and their collections.
btw when talking as a %gdp here is the correct chart:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=205
So when we've achieved the perfect tax rate that maximizes our revenue, where do we get the other $1T + from?
Ron Paul says he can eliminate $1T from the federal budget... so does Paul Ryan. What is the Democratic plan to eliminate this spending?
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-Espiritu- posted:
Ron Paul says he can eliminate $1T from the federal budget... so does Paul Ryan. What is the Democratic plan to eliminate this spending?
It is hard say you can eliminate $1T in federal spending if you are not willing to lie.
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reesescups
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-Espiritu- posted:
forget 7.51% or even 8.79%... lets aim high. Lets go for the highest revenue as a %GPD we've ever achieved 10.2%. Of course everyone knows the rate will have to fluctuate to sustain this level, and it is a given that taxes have to go up.
HUZZAH, we've generated $454,000,000,000. That still leaves us with a $1,736,000,000,000 (Obama's worst year) or just about $1.2T average per year deficit. When you start talking deficits, you need to use the overall revenue numbers and expenditures including entitlement programs and their collections.
btw when talking as a %gdp here is the correct chart:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=205
So when we've achieved the perfect tax rate that maximizes our revenue, where do we get the other $1T + from?
Ron Paul says he can eliminate $1T from the federal budget... so does Paul Ryan. What is the Democratic plan to eliminate this spending?
There are personal income taxes and then there are a whole host of other taxes that go into the general category of 'federal revenue'. You seem to be willy nilly pick and choosing which parts to plug into various statements.
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congrats, you scrolled over to the correct column when discussing our government's ability to generate revenue. The total revenue as % of GDP is 20.6%. The highest 10 year period is just over 19%. The average is around 18%. Each % = $150,000,000,000.
As I've posted in the past, I like to use the 20.6% number instead of the income tax number (which I used in my previous post @10.2%) because tax rates or classifications are gamed over time. What start as social security premiums, evolve into social security taxes. Government revenue is always government revenue.
If you have a plan for how the government can increase their revenue between 25-50%... let us know, but that is what it would take just to balance the budget now. I contend regardless of the income tax rate you choose, you aren't going to move the revenue number as a % of GDP above 20%... which means you will at least need to eliminate $1T to balance the budgets.
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It seems that the liberals would rather have 25% of a small number than 15% of a much larger one. That is what I get from their logic.
In the 80's revenue doubled. Spending tripled. Simple math will tell you that the tax cuts did not cause the debt to grow.
As for cuts, if you increase something you did not cut it. If you keep it the same you don't cut it. If you reduce it you have cut it. Anything else is just weasel words.
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Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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reesescups
Title: //Captain America
Posts:
47,567
Registered:
May 26, '03
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User ID: 805,977
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Subject:
The Republicans Were Right v.1 - The Laffer Curve
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
It seems that the liberals would rather
I dunno about no liberals - but I would rather you address the glaring discrepancies in your previous statements and reality.
But par for course, I'm not expecting you to acknowledge the discrepancy or discuss it.
-----signature-----
"man up, you wimp." - Groucho48
"I'm not racist at all." - dae_trist
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