Webscar
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PayPal really has some shoddy business practices
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Friend has a PayPal account. Somehow Microsoft Points are purchased with his linked PayPal account, but are intercepted and go to someone else's account. Friend gets into battle with Microsoft and manages to get some of the money back, but not all.
He tells his bank not to authorize any payments to PayPal for Microsoft stuff. PayPal however doesn't count it as a refund from Microsoft and tries to pull the money from his bank account.
The bank refuses, so PayPal opens a Paypal CC to pull the money from.
2 months later my friend gets a call from debt collectors... He finds out about this account and that he's now in the hole $250... Because PayPal has been charging him interest Nd late fees inthe original $108 dollar charge.
Yes, it's now 1.5x as much as it originally was, after 2 months... He calls PayPal to explain the situation and they won't budge. He asks them to remove the additional fees because he was never notified about the account... And they say "nope" and then lock his PayPal account entirely.
He's now out $250 from PayPal, another $50-75 from the original Microsoft incident (he was charged late fees from bank and "Return fees" from Microsoft" plus the money he had in PayPal is locked and cannot be used...
I really feel bad for him... I really wish there was a more honest alternative out there that was backed as heavily... Google?
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Jezza_Belle
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PayPal really has some shoddy business practices
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me thinks your friend is not telling the whole truth of the matter. Paypal is not about to commit fraud and open a CC in his name without his consent for $250.
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-Prismatic-
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PayPal really has some shoddy business practices
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Jezza_Belle posted:
me thinks your friend is not telling the whole truth of the matter. Paypal is not about to commit fraud and open a CC in his name without his consent for $250.
LOL
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Webscar
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PayPal really has some shoddy business practices
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-Prismatic- posted:
Jezza_Belle posted:
me thinks your friend is not telling the whole truth of the matter. Paypal is not about to commit fraud and open a CC in his name without his consent for $250.
LOL
That's part of their ToS... If you're unable to pay an outstand balance with any of your linked accounts then PayPal will open an account in your name that. An have a negative balance to cover the costs...
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Jezza_Belle
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PayPal really has some shoddy business practices
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Webscar posted:
-Prismatic- posted:
Jezza_Belle posted:
me thinks your friend is not telling the whole truth of the matter. Paypal is not about to commit fraud and open a CC in his name without his consent for $250.
LOL
That's part of their ToS... If you're unable to pay an outstand balance with any of your linked accounts then PayPal will open an account in your name that. An have a negative balance to cover the costs...
where? I am not finding anything like this in their TOS.
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Nerf-Evil-Oo
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Why do people keep using this service. Paypal is evil
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levgre
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In all my times using Paypal I never went to my bank to manage PayPal payments. As far as I knew this is something you did through your PayPal account.
So PayPal tried to overdraw on the bank account your friend linked to PayPal, but since the bank refused and gave them no money, PayPal had to open a line of credit. I really don't believe that PayPal made up a whole new account for your friend.
And then your friend waits 2 months while having a negative balance and expects PayPal to gift him some money?
I don't know, PayPal MIGHT have done something wrong here, but I don't think you know wtf is going on and I doubt your friend does either. Money is srs business, you should know exactly what you are doing and where your money is transferring.
Are Paypal and Microsoft points partner sites or something? Are they supposed to be in sync?
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murron2
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Something is amiss here for sure. PayPal has been used by us for 5+ years and they have been very proactive. I would check into it further to be sure. Truly...
~Murron~
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Gaevren
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There are many many accounts of PayPal being completely unscrupulous and just horrid to their customers. The only thing that gets them to back down is a court case. I kid you not.
Your friend should take them to small claims court, imo.
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Rhodoman
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I have never linked my Paypal account to my bank account for just this reason.
Rho
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silvadel2
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If you are required to link paypal to a bank account then the best idea is to have a separate account that keeps very little money in it to reduce your exposure.
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Hawkson
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This reminded me to cancel my PayPal account. Thanks.
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Webscar
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To those saying not to link it to a bank account... Etc etc.. That's the whole problem here. It wasn't linked; the transaction went through because PayPal refuses to see the payment from Microsoft as a refund and because the bank is now not authorizing that payment PayPal decided they have to take it from somewhere and opened an account to do it with.
That is why this got so messed up. His bank has been fighting with Microsoft over the transaction for him. PayPal was kept in the loop; which is why he didn't handle it direct with PayPal... Once he thought it was all straight PayPal still applied the amount; didn't contact him, and now refuses to do anything to help.
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silvadel2
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Paypal is all about the benjamins... All Paypal cares about really is that they are never on the hook for any money. It is whoevers fault they can collect from easiest.
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levgre
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Webscar posted:
To those saying not to link it to a bank account... Etc etc.. That's the whole problem here. It wasn't linked
From what you've said, yes it was linked... just because you talk to your bank to block paypal, does not mean your paypal account is no longer linked to that bank as your primary payment method (which is the only reason I can think of that PayPal would request a payment from the bank in the first place).
Why should Paypal, a simple online payment system, be tracking whether Microsoft's internet transactions are refunds or not? That's what I don't understand... what is the link exactly between PayPal and Microsoft Points here?
I've been in a similar situation with Paypal, they withdrew from my bank when there wasn't enough money in it, my account ended up getting locked and I had to pay a fee to the bank. But it was my fault, I messed up while using an automated payment mechanism. I'm not going to blame the Pay-Pal coding.
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Lothland
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Never use them, never will. I haven't found a need to use them over my credit card.
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PlieBrac
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i have been using paypal for years and never had a prob like this. although it sounds like your friend uses it alot more, but still..
what has always troubled me about pay pal and made me leary of them and makes use them so sparingly and only for certain things, is that there is no brick and mortar place that i know of to go bang on a door to complain so i have always been cautious with them.
and i have never "left money" in my paypal account.
matter of fact i have recieved money thru paypal only a couple of times.
mostly i use it to pay for stuff in single transactions for convenience sake. if i recieve money from someone, i transfer it out to my bank acct immediately.
it is also entirely possible that there is more to the story.. who knows.. 
hope he gets it unfacked soon!
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caffeino00
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Nerf-Evil-Oo posted:
Why do people keep using this service. Paypal is evil
It is known.
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Webscar
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levgre posted:
Webscar posted:
To those saying not to link it to a bank account... Etc etc.. That's the whole problem here. It wasn't linked
From what you've said, yes it was linked... just because you talk to your bank to block paypal, does not mean your paypal account is no longer linked to that bank as your primary payment method (which is the only reason I can think of that PayPal would request a payment from the bank in the first place).
Why should Paypal, a simple online payment system, be tracking whether Microsoft's internet transactions are refunds or not? That's what I don't understand... what is the link exactly between PayPal and Microsoft Points here?
I've been in a similar situation with Paypal, they withdrew from my bank when there wasn't enough money in it, my account ended up getting locked and I had to pay a fee to the bank. But it was my fault, I messed up while using an automated payment mechanism. I'm not going to blame the Pay-Pal coding.
Slip of the tongue on "Linked"... but the effect is the same. Paypal had no linked account that was authorizing the payment, so they put it on a CC (Found out they're called Smart Connect) to cover the balance. As for why Paypal should be tracking whether or not Microsoft is refunding is because they are the middle man, who is actually passing money back and forth.
Microsoft to PayPal: Give me $100
PayPal to Microsoft: Okay, here you go.
PayPal to Bank: Hey, I need $100 for Microsoft.
Bank to PayPal: Here you go, $100.
... Later ...
Bank to PayPal: Whoa, wait a sec. That's fraudulent and wasn't initiated by my client. I'm sorting this out with Microsoft.
PayPal to Bank: Oh, okay; we'll just put his account on hold so it doesn't happen again.
... Later ...
Microsoft to PayPal: Here's that $100 back
Bank to PayPal: I'd like that $100 to balance the account
PayPal: Oh sure, here you go.
... Later ...
PayPal: Hey, I still have this $100 charge to take care of. Bank Give me $100
Bank to PayPal: Umm, no. We resolved this. Microsoft isn't authorized to charge through PayPal.
PayPal: Well, I have to charge this. It wasn't refunded.
... 2 Months Later...
Collection Agency: Hey, I need $250 from you to pay PayPal.
Friend: WTF?
Maybe that explains the history a little better? PayPal ended up processing the payment through because it was never "resolved" (Refunded) and the Bank refused to pay it because it was not authorized to. PayPal says you cannot have a negative balance; so it created a Smart Connect account in his name to house the negative balance, and started charging my friend interest and late fees... then called collections on him.
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silvadel2
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Well you have 4 entities -- Microsoft, Paypal, the Bank, and your friend.
Somebody has to take a loss on this because of the thief.
Take a guess who will lose every single time...
The only way you will not lose in this situation is if you can manage to make it cost MORE than the amount to ANY one of the three other organizations above to not pay off.
The aformentioned take them to court can work.
Potential negative publicity can work.
Sometimes the promise of extra business can work (IE if losing you as a customer costs them more than the amount they would have to eat)
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Webscar
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Yup; unfortunately PayPal is going to win this one. He has no will to fight it further and just wants it done with
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Gaevren
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Webscar posted:
Yup; unfortunately PayPal is going to win this one. He has no will to fight it further and just wants it done with
And that's why they continue to get away with this crap.
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Webscar
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Gaevren posted:
Webscar posted:
Yup; unfortunately PayPal is going to win this one. He has no will to fight it further and just wants it done with
And that's why they continue to get away with this crap.
not how I would prefer it going down; but he's already made the choice due to having to deal with all the other crap.
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Jezza_Belle
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and he should have followed the paypal resolution steps, sounds to me like he decided to cut paypal out of the equation and just told his bank to stop payment without telling paypal what was going on, without following their conflict resolution steps at all.
and I still haven't found anywhere in their ToS where they say they'll open a CC in your name.
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levgre
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Webscar posted:
levgre posted:
Webscar posted:
To those saying not to link it to a bank account... Etc etc.. That's the whole problem here. It wasn't linked
From what you've said, yes it was linked... just because you talk to your bank to block paypal, does not mean your paypal account is no longer linked to that bank as your primary payment method (which is the only reason I can think of that PayPal would request a payment from the bank in the first place).
Why should Paypal, a simple online payment system, be tracking whether Microsoft's internet transactions are refunds or not? That's what I don't understand... what is the link exactly between PayPal and Microsoft Points here?
I've been in a similar situation with Paypal, they withdrew from my bank when there wasn't enough money in it, my account ended up getting locked and I had to pay a fee to the bank. But it was my fault, I messed up while using an automated payment mechanism. I'm not going to blame the Pay-Pal coding.
Slip of the tongue on "Linked"... but the effect is the same. Paypal had no linked account that was authorizing the payment, so they put it on a CC (Found out they're called Smart Connect) to cover the balance. As for why Paypal should be tracking whether or not Microsoft is refunding is because they are the middle man, who is actually passing money back and forth.
Microsoft to PayPal: Give me $100
PayPal to Microsoft: Okay, here you go.
PayPal to Bank: Hey, I need $100 for Microsoft.
Bank to PayPal: Here you go, $100.
... Later ...
Bank to PayPal: Whoa, wait a sec. That's fraudulent and wasn't initiated by my client. I'm sorting this out with Microsoft.
PayPal to Bank: Oh, okay; we'll just put his account on hold so it doesn't happen again.
... Later ...
Microsoft to PayPal: Here's that $100 back
Bank to PayPal: I'd like that $100 to balance the account
PayPal: Oh sure, here you go.
... Later ...
PayPal: Hey, I still have this $100 charge to take care of. Bank Give me $100
Bank to PayPal: Umm, no. We resolved this. Microsoft isn't authorized to charge through PayPal.
PayPal: Well, I have to charge this. It wasn't refunded.
... 2 Months Later...
Collection Agency: Hey, I need $250 from you to pay PayPal.
Friend: WTF?
Maybe that explains the history a little better? PayPal ended up processing the payment through because it was never "resolved" (Refunded) and the Bank refused to pay it because it was not authorized to. PayPal says you cannot have a negative balance; so it created a Smart Connect account in his name to house the negative balance, and started charging my friend interest and late fees... then called collections on him.
Yes it does, and shows your friend is completely at fault. He charged his PayPal with money he didn't have. And there was absolutely nothing fraudalent about PayPal asking your friend's bank account for money. You set your sources of funds on your PayPal account. In the world of instant online transactions things happen quickly, and PayPal can't just have everyone owe them money and pay back later.
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UnsavoryShaqFu
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Paypal is evil and deserve to go out of business.
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Gaevren
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levgre posted:
Yes it does, and shows your friend is completely at fault. He charged his PayPal with money he didn't have. And there was absolutely nothing fraudalent about PayPal asking your friend's bank account for money. You set your sources of funds on your PayPal account. In the world of instant online transactions things happen quickly, and PayPal can't just have everyone owe them money and pay back later.
I thought these were fraudulent charges that he was disputing. As in, someone else got his paypal acct. charged for something he never bought (microsoft points).
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Webscar
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correct; he did not initiate the charges.
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levgre
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When you state that your friend had the bank block PayPal, that completely implies that PayPal was set up to handle payments. Otherwise there would have been zero reason to block PayPal with the bank.
But telling your bank to block payments does not fix things on your PayPal account's end. It still tries to access your bank for payments.
You do not have, or you are not giving all the details. PayPal does not add cookies to your computer that just automatically set up payment agreements. You do it yourself.
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Webscar
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levgre posted:
You do not have, or you are not giving all the details. PayPal does not add cookies to your computer that just automatically set up payment agreements. You do it yourself.
Umm... what?
I am likely stating the "Bank blocked PayPal" part wrong. I admittedly am fuzzy on that particular part. I was a bit more focused on the part where paypal doesn't see the refund, and when they unfreeze the account they charge him the payment that had already been resolved and noted as fraudulent by his bank and microsoft.
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Caoilin
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levgre is misunderstanding what initiated this.
i won't take the word of some guy about the word of some guy in who is right or wrong in the actual case. it's just as likely the dude is lying as it is that paypal is cheating.
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Aethelgrin
Posts:
11,938
Registered:
Dec 20, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,717
User ID: 563,732
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Subject:
PayPal really has some shoddy business practices
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Paypal is great...as long as everything is as usual. Anything out of the ordinary will cause them to go ballistic. Terrible company overall.
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"I thought men had belly buttons and women had vagina's instead" - Element_X
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