Brother_Tempus
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Why Government College Aid Makes College More Expensive
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The rise in college tuition is no different that the rise in housing ... both cause by governments subsidies creating bubbles. As the housing bubble burst, we saw how bad the devastation was ... it will be interesting to see how bad the damage wreaked by the education bubble bursting will cause.
http://www.smartmoney.com/spend/family-money/why-college-aid-makes-college-more-expensive-1330033152060/
ederal aid for students has increased 164% over the past decade, adjusted for inflation, according to the College Board. Yet three-quarters of Americans and even a majority of college presidents see college as unaffordable for most, and that sentiment has been steadily spreading, the Pew Research Center reports.
Two new studies offer clues on why. One measures the degree to which some colleges reduce their own aid in response to increased federal aid. The other suggests federal aid is helping to push college costs higher.
Recipients of federal Pell Grants have, by definition, limited means to pay for college, so they are likely to qualify for grants and price breaks given out by schools, too. But schools view a student's sources of federal aid before deciding how much to give on their own, rather than the other way around. The result is a crowding out effect, where some schools give less as the government gives more.
Lesley Turner, a PhD candidate at Columbia University, looked at data on aid from 1996 to 2008 and calculated that, on average, schools increased Pell Grant recipients' prices by $17 in response to every $100 of Pell Grant aid. More selective nonprofit schools' response was largest and these schools raised prices by $66 for every $100 of Pell Grant aid.
Aid from schools over the past decade has increased about half as fast as federal aid, according to the College Board.
Perhaps worse for students than a crowding out effect is the Bennett Effect, named for William Bennett, who 25 years ago as Secretary of Education wrote for the New York Times, "Increases in financial aid in recent years have enabled colleges and universities blithely to raise their tuitions."
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Moe_Nox
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Ptilk
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If you don't think the expense was worth the degree, you either got a totally useless degree, or you suck at the stuff your worthwhile degree claims you are able to do.
Sure, college loans suck, but it sucks much worse to not have a college degree. Welcome to capitalism. Join us in the party, we brought cake and ice cream....cause we can afford it.
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Manegarm
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You should just make college free for everyone.. Like we do here.
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NuEM
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It's an investment we as society make. And it pays off.
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Brother_Tempus
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Manegarm posted:
You should just make college free for everyone.. Like we do here.
Government free means stealing from people to give to other people .... it is a perversion of the true definition of free
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Tych2
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Manegarm posted:
You should just make college free for everyone.. Like we do here.
I agree, but that won't help with private colleges.
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Moe_Nox
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Full college paid for, for every citizen, upon their completion of 4 years of service. Military, civil, or medical aide.
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Thugoneous
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Elkad
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The problem isn't the grants, it's the "no bankruptcy" clause on student loans.
Students can borrow all they want, regardless of credit, so the price keeps going up to meet the "demand".
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Phlegm573
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Brother_Tempus
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Moe_Nox posted:
Full college paid for, for every citizen, upon their completion of 4 years of service. Military, civil, or medical aide.
And how will you pay for this and how will you get around the 13th Amendment to prevents conscription
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Tych2
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Through taxes and amend the 13th amendment. 
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Brother_Tempus
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Tych2 posted:
Through taxes and amend the 13th amendment.
theft and the legitimacy of slavery .... nice system you guys preach
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Koneg
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
Full college paid for, for every citizen, upon their completion of 4 years of service. Military, civil, or medical aide.
And how will you pay for this and how will you get around the 13th Amendment to prevents conscription
The 13th prohibits slavery and involuntary servitude.
Trading 4 years of military or civil service in exchange for a college education is a fair deal in my book, and since it would be voluntary there's no need to amend the 13th or even consider it.
Edit: By the way, this is already done to a limited extent. If you want to become a doctor several States will guarantee to pay your student loans, provided that after you become a doctor you practice for 4 years where they tell you to. If you welch on the deal they don't pay your loans - but so long as you set up shop where they want then they make your payments for you.
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Tych2
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Tych2 posted:
Through taxes and amend the 13th amendment.
theft and the legitimacy of slavery .... nice system you guys preach
Who cares what you think. You are irrelevant. If you're not careful we'll take your [mod] and kick sand in your face!
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Brother_Tempus
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Tych2 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Tych2 posted:
Through taxes and amend the 13th amendment.
theft and the legitimacy of slavery .... nice system you guys preach
Who cares what you think.
You all do, especially when i am right yet again and you guys are gnashing your teeth at another failed example of social democracy
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Tych2
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 You'd like to think we care huh chief?
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Desnoxvu
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I wouldn't bother with the Tempus. Some people just never realize that they are the bad guys.
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Koneg
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Brother_Tempus posted:
You all do, especially when i am right yet again
Explain please how you're right when you point to the 13th, which prohibits involuntary servitude, when we're discussing voluntary servitude?
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stevenmeadowsin
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Easy/more money into anything is the basic definition of inflation. Education is fine and I paid for mine but at a certain point, no education is worth it. At another point, education is worth it every time.
What's shocking is that through the last 30 years and even this economic downturn, tuition continues to outpace inflation, generally doubling it. Greedy professors I guess!!
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Kordirn
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stevenmeadowsin posted:
Easy/more money into anything is the basic definition of inflation. Education is fine and I paid for mine but at a certain point, no education is worth it. At another point, education is worth it every time.
What's shocking is that through the last 30 years and even this economic downturn, tuition continues to outpace inflation, generally doubling it. Greedy professors I guess!!
More of an administration thing. A lot of professors don't really make a lot tbh.
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Ptilk
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The US military (IOW, the US taxpayer) paid for my college education.
I joined voluntarily. They offered me an option, I took it. Both parties were happy with the results. I got a degree, they got some years of service in return.
While I'm very happy with the way the situation worked out for me, I highly doubt it's the answer to the vast majority of people looking for a degree. The military doesn't need that many people, and it certainly doesn't need that many people with degrees in music theory or Interdisciplinary Studies.
The world however, might just need people with those degrees. Even if it doesn't, getting an education in something you give a damn about is a good thing. Money isn't all that important, make enough to survive and go for it.
You can still earn a degree via years at a community college (cheap as hell and easy to get aid to attend) followed by a year or two at a 4 year university. You can still work your way thru. You can still get there without borrowing a dime, if you want to. Yes, it's a hell of a lot harder and more work than it was back in my day....but no one ever said being an adult was easy.
Even if you never make an extra dime based upon your education, you win. One life, one chance to learn all you can. Go for it. Anyone who cares more about the cost than the benefits...is a [mod]ing idiot.
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Koneg
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Ptilk posted:
While I'm very happy with the way the situation worked out for me, I highly doubt it's the answer to the vast majority of people looking for a degree. The military doesn't need that many people,
There are other ways and other services that result in the same benefit.
If anyone remembers the show Northern Exposure, that was its basic premise. By its very nature the State of Alaska's more rural locales don't attract medical doctors, who tend to gravitate towards more populated areas, if for no other reason to work at hospitals during their residency to get the training they need for their specialty of choice.
To combat that, the State of Alaska will work a deal with you.
Go to medical school on student loans just like anyone else might - but if after graduating you move to an Alaskan town with a population less than 7500 to practice medicine, Alaska will make your student loan payments for you - for up to the full amount of your loans. This is contingent upon you staying and working in that rural area for 3 to 5 years (it depends on where you set up at)
The newly minted doctor gets their loans taken care of, the State gets a competent physician to an area that needs it, the citizens have access to medical care, and everybody is happy.
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SirGarth
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Ptilk posted:
While I'm very happy with the way the situation worked out for me, I highly doubt it's the answer to the vast majority of people looking for a degree. The military doesn't need that many people, and it certainly doesn't need that many people with degrees in music theory or Interdisciplinary Studies.
i actually know a lot of military people pursuing interdisciplinary degrees, the challenge is more for the student to choose disciplinary topics that are relevant - but for a lot of former & active military it allows them the flexibility to pursue research topics that are highly tailored to their backgrounds and/or interests.
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Phlegm573
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Manegarm
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Manegarm posted:
You should just make college free for everyone.. Like we do here.
Government free means stealing from people to give to other people .... it is a perversion of the true definition of free
It's called taxes, you pay for the society you want to live in. I like paying for my well built socialistic society those who don't want to pay are free to move elsewhere. 
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Manegarm
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Tych2 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
[quote=Tych2]Through taxes and amend the 13th amendment.
theft and the legitimacy of slavery .... nice system you guys preach
Who cares what you think.
You all do, especially when i am right yet again and you guys are gnashing your teeth at another failed example of social democracy[/quote]
I can't hear you over the sound of awesome my socialistic democratic country is.
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Nein mann ich will noch nicht gehen
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Kjarhall
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
Full college paid for, for every citizen, upon their completion of 4 years of service. Military, civil, or medical aide.
And how will you pay for this and how will you get around the 13th Amendment to prevents conscription
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Taliesihne
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College should be free.
/thread.
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Brother_Tempus
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Taliesihne posted:
College should be free.
/thread.
WHo pays for it to be free?
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Yukishiro1
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YOU. Muhahahaha
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Brother_Tempus
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Yukishiro1 posted:
YOU. Muhahahaha
And that's why socialism only works as long as their is someone left to steal from ... looks like pretty soon there will be no one left to pay for other people's education ... like I said ... the fallout from the collapse of the education bubble will be very interesting to watch
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Ashmaele
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
YOU. Muhahahaha
And that's why socialism only works as long as their is someone left to steal from ... looks like pretty soon there will be no one left to pay for other people's education ... like I said ... the fallout from the collapse of the education bubble will be very interesting to watch
Just out of curiosity, did you attend college?
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Tych2
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Taliesihne posted:
College should be free.
/thread.
Yup. Free to the child paid for by the taxpayers.
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Taliesihne
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Free to everyone that can pass.
If you don't pass\drop out, you get a bill for services rendered.
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Tych2
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That works for me.
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Brother_Tempus
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Ashmaele posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
YOU. Muhahahaha
And that's why socialism only works as long as their is someone left to steal from ... looks like pretty soon there will be no one left to pay for other people's education ... like I said ... the fallout from the collapse of the education bubble will be very interesting to watch
Just out of curiosity, did you attend college?
yes, and I paid for it myself [ no aid ]... i am actually looking at a Master's Degree, the money is not the issue but the scheduling with the full time job and family is.
The difference between me and most Gen Y'ers in college is that I have learned to save so I can afford the things i want, not place myself unnecessarily in debt for things I want.
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BT is usually right - Onslaught
i think we need more BT on page 1 - FighterUSAF
Yep, BT is right - Aerlinthian
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theredkay1
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Why Government College Aid Makes College More Expensive
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Will you be writing a check to pay back all the taxpayers who have for many, many, many decades been paying for the education system that you took advantage of?
Or are you happy with the massively subsidized education system when it advantaged you and just want to get rid of it now that you have to pay back into the system for future generations?
I think we know the answer. Socialism for me....but everyone else is on their own.
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Yukishiro1
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Why Government College Aid Makes College More Expensive
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
YOU. Muhahahaha
And that's why socialism only works as long as their is someone left to steal from ... looks like pretty soon there will be no one left to pay for other people's education ... like I said ... the fallout from the collapse of the education bubble will be very interesting to watch
I am fine with "stealing" from you to provide education for people who can't afford it themselves and will clearly make better use of it than you have. 
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Brother_Tempus
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Subject:
Why Government College Aid Makes College More Expensive
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
YOU. Muhahahaha
And that's why socialism only works as long as their is someone left to steal from ... looks like pretty soon there will be no one left to pay for other people's education ... like I said ... the fallout from the collapse of the education bubble will be very interesting to watch
I am fine with "stealing" from you to provide education for people who can't afford it themselves and will clearly make better use of it than you have.
Ask the people with houses that they got on the taxpayer's dime and see how that worked for them after the bubble popped.
Me, i am going to guess the B.A is going to be the equivalent of a GED by the time the education bubble has deflated and i will be very happy to see those who took out a mortgage for the BA to have to pay full price for that now GED equivalent
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You win ACF, dude - Osmenthe
BT is usually right - Onslaught
i think we need more BT on page 1 - FighterUSAF
Yep, BT is right - Aerlinthian
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Yukishiro1
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Why Government College Aid Makes College More Expensive
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Didn't you think gold was going to be way over 2000 by now? Your predictions don't have a great track record.
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Taliesihne
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Why Government College Aid Makes College More Expensive
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Ask the people with houses that they got on the taxpayer's dime and see how that worked for them after the bubble popped.
Workin out great.
Thanks guys!
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First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Kjarhall
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Why Government College Aid Makes College More Expensive
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Didn't you think gold was going to be way over 2000 by now? Your predictions don't have a great track record.
Just you wait until the Fed implodes and we go back to the gold standard. FIATCURRENBARGLECY!
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You're a crazy moron*
*http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/115147923/r115151508/
hah! true story tho i'm a woman an i even love boobs..how can you not??- HallowEve
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Tych2
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Subject:
Why Government College Aid Makes College More Expensive
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
YOU. Muhahahaha
And that's why socialism only works as long as their is someone left to steal from ... looks like pretty soon there will be no one left to pay for other people's education ... like I said ... the fallout from the collapse of the education bubble will be very interesting to watch
I am fine with "stealing" from you to provide education for people who can't afford it themselves and will clearly make better use of it than you have.
Me too! Especially BT's money!!
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We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
Drevid in Tanks
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Brother_Tempus
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Why Government College Aid Makes College More Expensive
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Didn't you think gold was going to be way over 2000 by now? Your predictions don't have a great track record.
nope
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You win ACF, dude - Osmenthe
BT is usually right - Onslaught
i think we need more BT on page 1 - FighterUSAF
Yep, BT is right - Aerlinthian
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Thugoneous
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Brother_Tempus posted:
nope
Tych incoming...
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