jeune
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1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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unless you have someone under 16 in the car. Just saw this and not sure how I feel. One side feels like drinking and driving is serious and should be punished... but I also feel like it is something that most people have done before. DWI convictions haunt people forever... and I have a weird feeling that this would change people a lot more because they would be scared to get a second one... should we have any compassion?!
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf
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rabbitslayer
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1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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jeune posted:
unless you have someone under 16 in the car. Just saw this and not sure how I feel. One side feels like drinking and driving is serious and should be punished... but I also feel like it is something that most people have done before. DWI convictions haunt people forever... and I have a weird feeling that this would change people a lot more because they would be scared to get a second one... should we have any compassion?!
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf
should be scared to get the first imo
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Hey Jeune, welcome back.
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Ptilk
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If you've never driven while drunk, you've also probably never had sex with someone you weren't married to at the time.
In other words, you aren't normal and need to lighten up Francis.
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Dark_EternalFF
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Ptilk posted:
If you've never driven while drunk, you've also probably never had sex with someone you weren't married to at the time.
In other words, you aren't normal and need to lighten up Francis.
What about those of us who have better taste in women than you do? I mean, from what you've revealed, you pretty much seem to get the bottom of the barrel most of the time...
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1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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rabbitslayer posted:
jeune posted:
unless you have someone under 16 in the car. Just saw this and not sure how I feel. One side feels like drinking and driving is serious and should be punished... but I also feel like it is something that most people have done before. DWI convictions haunt people forever... and I have a weird feeling that this would change people a lot more because they would be scared to get a second one... should we have any compassion?!
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf
should be scared to get the first imo
Agreed.
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Banelord_FF
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1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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jeune posted:
unless you have someone under 16 in the car. Just saw this and not sure how I feel. One side feels like drinking and driving is serious and should be punished... but I also feel like it is something that most people have done before. DWI convictions haunt people forever... and I have a weird feeling that this would change people a lot more because they would be scared to get a second one... should we have any compassion?!
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf
I've had friends killed by drunk drivers and personally I think the punshments in many cases are far to lenient. I think there should be a minimum of a 6 month suspension of one's license for the first offense on top of the other penalties. Second time a minimum of 2 years, third time lose your license for life.
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rabbitslayer
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1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Banelord_FF posted:
jeune posted:
unless you have someone under 16 in the car. Just saw this and not sure how I feel. One side feels like drinking and driving is serious and should be punished... but I also feel like it is something that most people have done before. DWI convictions haunt people forever... and I have a weird feeling that this would change people a lot more because they would be scared to get a second one... should we have any compassion?!
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf
I've had friends killed by drunk drivers and personally I think the punshments in many cases are far to lenient. I think there should be a minimum of a 6 month suspension of one's license for the first offense on top of the other penalties. Second time a minimum of 2 years, third time lose your license for life.
problem with that is, DUI is illegal, and that doesn't stop em, I don't think driving w/out a license be a hindrance at all.
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Brother_Tempus
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DUI is not a crime becuase there is no victim
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jeune
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1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Banelord_FF posted:
jeune posted:
unless you have someone under 16 in the car. Just saw this and not sure how I feel. One side feels like drinking and driving is serious and should be punished... but I also feel like it is something that most people have done before. DWI convictions haunt people forever... and I have a weird feeling that this would change people a lot more because they would be scared to get a second one... should we have any compassion?!
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf
I've had friends killed by drunk drivers and personally I think the punshments in many cases are far to lenient. I think there should be a minimum of a 6 month suspension of one's license for the first offense on top of the other penalties. Second time a minimum of 2 years, third time lose your license for life.
1st time offense you still lose your license for 6-9 months but just no jail time... it is treated like a violation until you get another... also if you kill someone or hurt someone you will prob be hit with vehicular homicide/other criminal charges.
I completely agree that for a 3rd time is you should never drive again... I just think a lot of young people get screwed who would never drive drunk a 2nd time. I do not think taking a license away from a habitual offender will stop them from driving either... it seems like they are the ones always killing people.
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rabbitslayer
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Brother_Tempus posted:
DUI is not a crime becuase there is no victim
yeah, same with murder, I have the right to face my accuser in court, it's not my fault that he's dead... well, it is but still ;P
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.-Vega-.
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Brother_Tempus posted:
DUI is not a crime becuase there is no victim
When there is a quintuple fold increase in the likelihood of you seriously injuring yourself and others, I think you should put the black and white way of handling things aside.
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jeune
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-Mithan- posted:
Hey Jeune, welcome back.
Why thank you Mithan 
I have been too busy to really post but I am still lurking a lot... it has become an addiction...
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Brother_Tempus posted:
DUI is not a crime becuase there is no victim
So society has no right to take pre-emptive action to protect people?
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.-Vega-.
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-Mithan- posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
DUI is not a crime becuase there is no victim
So society has no right to take pre-emptive action to protect people?
MINORITY REPORT.
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Brother_Tempus
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.-Vega-. posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
DUI is not a crime becuase there is no victim
When there is a quintuple fold increase in the likelihood of you seriously injuring yourself and others, I think you should put the black and white way of handling things aside.
Fatal accidents happen even when the person is sober. Anyone who causes harm should be held accountable but the immorality of pre-emptive action or behavior modification is more heinous than the supposed "crime" they are trying to stop
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Your chances of being killed by an under 20 inexperienced driver who is sober, are much worse than your chances of being killed by a drunk guy with 20 years experience driving while messed up.
Just sayin...
Not defending drunk drivers (total idiots who deserve to get smacked hard), but reality and perception are worlds apart on this issue.
BTW...for DE. I date amazing women, who are usually both quite attractive and quite intelligent. I joke around a lot on here, and use self deprecating humor and whatnot. Sure, I've banged my share of useless whores, but none of them were skanky (ok, maybe one or two). And yeah, maybe I buy cars for chicks that blow me, but hell, It's my money and I feel like supporting women that blow older men. It's in my own self interest after all. My current friend is amazingly hot (according to me on the interweb) and amazingly seems to actually like me (not just my cars and stuff). Don't worry, in a week or two (couple of months tops) I'm sure I'll be bitching about how she used me, and I'll be spending money on call girls again. 
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Dark_EternalFF
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It's ok. I'm just jelly you can buy a car for a chick in exchange for a blowjob without blinking 
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jeune
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Fatal accidents happen even when the person is sober. Anyone who causes harm should be held accountable but the immorality of pre-emptive action or behavior modification is more heinous than the supposed "crime" they are trying to stop
What exactly is the pre-emptive action going on here? Driving on roads that the public has built is not a right... it is a privilege. To continue driving on public roads you have to follow a host of regulations. It is simply a regulation that the people who have built the road require you to follow... if you think it is morally wrong no one is holding a gun to your head making you drive.
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By filling your body with a mind altering drug (alcohol) and then getting behind the wheel of a 3000 lbs car that can kill people, you are in essence, throwing responsibility out the window.
You KNOW your hand/eye co-ordination are impaired.
You KNOW your judgement is severely impaired.
You KNOW your vision has become smaller.
Basically, the skills you proved you had when you got your driving license in the first place are no longer in effect and your license is now void for the duration of your impairment.
That being all said, I do have issues with how people treat DUI.
MADD's propaganda campaign has basically turned DUI into a worse offense than first degree murder or rape in the minds of a lot of people and I disagree with it, or the crazy sentences that some areas want to give you for it.
Its like "oh you killed somebody during a bank robbery? thats cool" is normal then you hear "OMG! YOU DROVE DRUNK!!! YOU SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT AND GIVEN 90 LASHES!".
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It wasn't in exchange for a blow job, that would be sad.
It was as a thank you for a blow job. She earned it. Really. Damn. Wonder if I can find her number....?
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If stupidity was a crime BT would be in lockup.
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Ah-Schoo
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Fatal accidents happen even when the person is sober.
Aahh, good old "but something else happened" logical failure. I knew I could count on B_T for that fallacy.
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jeune posted:
unless you have someone under 16 in the car. Just saw this and not sure how I feel. One side feels like drinking and driving is serious and should be punished... but I also feel like it is something that most people have done before. DWI convictions haunt people forever... and I have a weird feeling that this would change people a lot more because they would be scared to get a second one... should we have any compassion?!
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf
many states have a "ard" program that they send you to if you are a first time offender.
basically you pay some money, go to classes and in 6-12 months the charges disappear off your record.
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Brother_Tempus
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jeune posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Fatal accidents happen even when the person is sober. Anyone who causes harm should be held accountable but the immorality of pre-emptive action or behavior modification is more heinous than the supposed "crime" they are trying to stop
What exactly is the pre-emptive action going on here?
Not allowing people to drive while intoxicated, whatever that definition may mean since it seems to move around a lot.
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Brother_Tempus posted:
jeune posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Fatal accidents happen even when the person is sober. Anyone who causes harm should be held accountable but the immorality of pre-emptive action or behavior modification is more heinous than the supposed "crime" they are trying to stop
What exactly is the pre-emptive action going on here?
Not allowing people to drive while intoxicated, whatever that definition may mean since it seems to move around a lot.
If you can pass your driving test while intoxicated, I would think you had an argument.
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-Mithan- posted:
By filling your body with a mind altering drug (alcohol) and then getting behind the wheel of a 3000 lbs car that can kill people, you are in essence, throwing responsibility out the window. .
Some people don;t need a drug to be dangerous behind a wheel, they could have a neurological chemical imbalance, they could be absent-minded, they could be going senile, the could just be very inexperienced
You appeal to emotion fallacy is noted and ignored as usual
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Brother_Tempus posted:
-Mithan- posted:
By filling your body with a mind altering drug (alcohol) and then getting behind the wheel of a 3000 lbs car that can kill people, you are in essence, throwing responsibility out the window. .
Some people don;t need a drug to be dangerous behind a wheel, they could have a neurological chemical imbalance, they could be absent-minded, they could be going senile, the could just be very inexperienced
You appeal to emotion fallacy is noted and ignored as usual
If we examine this post very carefully we might be able to figure out what's wrong with BT.
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-Mithan- posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
jeune posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Fatal accidents happen even when the person is sober. Anyone who causes harm should be held accountable but the immorality of pre-emptive action or behavior modification is more heinous than the supposed "crime" they are trying to stop
What exactly is the pre-emptive action going on here?
Not allowing people to drive while intoxicated, whatever that definition may mean since it seems to move around a lot.
If you can pass your driving test while intoxicated, I would think you had an argument.
Is it sad that I think it would be cool to be allowed to do a intoxicated driving test? (Note: I cab it to the bar and buddies houses and never drink and drive.)
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But to humor BT I will address his stupidity. You are only given the privilege to operate a vehicle because at some time in the past you exhibited the skill necessary to do so in accordance with standards set by the state. You may at some time in the future arrive at a mental capacity deemed not fit to drive. As we are not the thought police you would need to be observed by an officer operating a motor vehicle in what seems to be an unsafe condition. During a contact with that officer he may request you be tested.
Some elements, such as consumption, are known to lesson ones ability to safely operate a vehicle. Because of this, there are laws in place forbidding this. If you chose to do so anyway you may find yourself in trouble.
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Reapist posted:
If stupidity was a crime BT would be in lockup.
And you'd be in solitary confinement.
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In BT's world no one should be punished for shooting firearms in crowded, urban areas until they actually kill someone or damage property. Even if there was a 10% chance they'd kill/wound someone, hey we got lucky so who cares!
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1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Brother_Tempus posted:
-Mithan- posted:
By filling your body with a mind altering drug (alcohol) and then getting behind the wheel of a 3000 lbs car that can kill people, you are in essence, throwing responsibility out the window. .
Some people don;t need a drug to be dangerous behind a wheel, they could have a neurological chemical imbalance, they could be absent-minded, they could be going senile, the could just be very inexperienced
You appeal to emotion fallacy is noted and ignored as usual
Using a logical fallacy to try and refute a perceived fallacy is super FAIL.
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Mangler_SC
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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They call them accidents for a reason, don't they?
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Banelord_FF
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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BT might have a point if driving a motor vehicle were a right instead of a privilege.
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deadcactus
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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I'd rather see the DUI laws relaxed on the lower end of the spectrum and tightened up at the higher end of the risk/harm spectrum. Emphasis on circumstances and actual risk over stringent BAL cutoffs.
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Mangler_SC
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Banelord_FF posted:
BT might have a point if driving a motor vehicle were a right instead of a privilege.
Please explain to me in detail how American society as a whole would survive without personal transportation.
Since Henry Ford, it's not necessarily been a society based on public transport.
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Brother_Tempus
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Reapist posted:
But to humor BT I will address his stupidity. You are only given the privilege to operate a vehicle
People were driving before their were licenses, people were flying before certifications .. the inalienable right to travel is not something granted or allowed by government.
Government can either defend this right or attempt to prohibit or regulate it. But it cannot grant what it never had in the first place
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Brother_Tempus
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Banelord_FF posted:
BT might have a point if driving a motor vehicle were a right instead of a privilege.
it is a right as i explained in my previous post .. what you have here on this thread is a lot of ignorant people who think government has power to grant things. .... they are sadly mistaken
The only government can do is redistribute wealth from those who produce to those who mooch
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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I think Mangler and BT belong together in a rubber room.
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Brother_Tempus
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Reapist posted:
I think Mangler and BT belong together in a rubber room.
I think your ad hominem shows that I was right about your ignorance since this is the best you can do to defend you r POV
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Reapist posted:
I think Mangler and BT belong together in a rubber room.
I think your ad hominem shows that I was right about your ignorance since this is the best you can do to defend you r POV
You've got fallacies and are pretending to be smart.
Reapist is more honest than you.
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Ah-Schoo posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Reapist posted:
I think Mangler and BT belong together in a rubber room.
I think your ad hominem shows that I was right about your ignorance since this is the best you can do to defend you r POV
You've got fallacies and are pretending to be smart. Reapist is more honest than you.
Honesty prevails.
Show me any municipality that thrives without mass transit.
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Mangler_SC posted:
Show me any municipality that thrives without mass transit.
Straw man ... the discussion is whether DUI is a crime ... since there is no victim, it cannot be a crime since there was no loss of life, property or liberty
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
Show me any municipality that thrives without mass transit.
Straw man ... the discussion is whether DUI is a crime ... since there is no victim, it cannot be a crime since there was no loss of life, property or liberty
Shooting an automatic weapon in a preschool full of kids should be legal as well correct? I might not hit any of them.
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
Show me any municipality that thrives without mass transit.
Straw man ... the discussion is whether DUI is a crime ... since there is no victim, it cannot be a crime since there was no loss of life, property or liberty
And as always B_T flees from common sense and rational discussion and goes for semantics in a desperate attempt to 'win' no matter the cost.
LOL
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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BT thinks it is also okay to hire a hitman, as long as the hitman doesn't carry out the orders (car accident the night before, whatever). Even though you intended to kill someone and set the murder in motion, you are not guilty of anything I guess.
Also, when you have drunk drivers, you deprive the liberty of other drivers to travel roads safely.
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Reapist posted:
But to humor BT I will address his stupidity. You are only given the privilege to operate a vehicle
People were driving before their were licenses, people were flying before certifications .. the inalienable right to travel is not something granted or allowed by government.
Government can either defend this right or attempt to prohibit or regulate it. But it cannot grant what it never had in the first place
Just because operating specific modes of transportation are regulated doesn't mean travel in general is.
No one is stopping you from walking, riding your bike, taking the bus or even the train.
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Wow, B_T sure got a lot of us with this rerun.
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Gaevren posted:
No one is stopping you from walking, riding your bike, taking the bus or even the train.
"walkin g"
“the DUI exception to the Constitution.†Say what??
Riding the bus or train, another "exception to the constitution"??
Most people on this thread.
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Dark_EternalFF posted:
Ptilk posted:
If you've never driven while drunk, you've also probably never had sex with someone you weren't married to at the time. In other words, you aren't normal and need to lighten up Francis.
What about those of us who have better taste in women than you do? I mean, from what you've revealed, you pretty much seem to get the bottom of the barrel most of the time...
agreed
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Reapist posted:
But to humor BT I will address his stupidity. You are only given the privilege to operate a vehicle because at some time in the past you exhibited the skill necessary to do so in accordance with standards set by the state. You may at some time in the future arrive at a mental capacity deemed not fit to drive. As we are not the thought police you would need to be observed by an officer operating a motor vehicle in what seems to be an unsafe condition. During a contact with that officer he may request you be tested. Some elements, such as consumption, are known to lesson ones ability to safely operate a vehicle. Because of this, there are laws in place forbidding this. If you chose to do so anyway you may find yourself in trouble.
I love how Im given the privilege to drive on the roads that my tax money helps to build. lawl driving on roads a privilege, nice.
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Cuttlery posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
Show me any municipality that thrives without mass transit.
Straw man ... the discussion is whether DUI is a crime ... since there is no victim, it cannot be a crime since there was no loss of life, property or liberty
Shooting an automatic weapon in a preschool full of kids should be legal as well correct? I might not hit any of them.
Appeal to emotion fallacy now ...sigh
no victim, no crime .. it as simple as that
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Sith_Mauler posted:
jeune posted:
unless you have someone under 16 in the car. Just saw this and not sure how I feel. One side feels like drinking and driving is serious and should be punished... but I also feel like it is something that most people have done before. DWI convictions haunt people forever... and I have a weird feeling that this would change people a lot more because they would be scared to get a second one... should we have any compassion?!
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf
many states have a "ard" program that they send you to if you are a first time offender.
basically you pay some money, go to classes and in 6-12 months the charges disappear off your record.
Wisconsin does not have that. Also, I know for a fact that speeding tickets in WI are about 2 - 3 times more then tickets in the bordering states such as IL and IA. I assume that the DUI tickets are much higher then other states as well. So they may not be hitting the drunks with jail time but at least they are hitting the wallets.
Also, until a few years ago the DUI limit was .1 rather then .08, it would still probably be at .1 if the Fed hadn't made us change it.
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Cuttlery posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
[quote=Mangler_SC]
Show me any municipality that thrives without mass transit.
Straw man ... the discussion is whether DUI is a crime ... since there is no victim, it cannot be a crime since there was no loss of life, property or liberty
Shooting an automatic weapon in a preschool full of kids should be legal as well correct? I might not hit any of them.
Appeal to emotion fallacy now ...sigh
no victim, no crime .. it as simple as that[/quote]
intent to commit a crime, driving under the influence is the crime
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Ah-Schoo
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Subject:
1st time DUI is not criminal in Wisconsin...
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Aerlinthian posted:
Gaevren posted:
No one is stopping you from walking, riding your bike, taking the bus or even the train.
<stupid links and an insult to all of ACF>
Hey r-tard, B_T already trolled everyone here, try your OWN routine instead of a lame copycat troll.
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