-Foxy- posted:

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dont disrespect the uniform. but i also agree that those flowers have been fine for years. why do they suddenly need human intervention?

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Reapist posted:

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-Foxy- posted:

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dont disrespect the uniform. but i also agree that those flowers have been fine for years. why do they suddenly need human intervention?

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Because there are a lot of stupid green people. But that's not the Ranger's fault and I don't care how trivial it is. When an officer is talking to you it's best if you pay attention.

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regulator_cracka posted:

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Its california, no one is in their right mind<.>

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Reapist posted:

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My feelings on this are pretty simple. You respect the uniform. And yes, the laws may be stupid, but you don't change them by being obstinate. The ranger was trying to do her job and it really doesn't matter if she agrees with the rule or not, she was enforcing it. To treat her the way he did the idiot deserved to be tazed all to hell. There are ways to change rules you do not agree with, but treating an obviously armed and uniformed official is not the way. Go to meeting. Speak your mind. Get others involved. Start a petition. Get the local media involved. But don't do this after you were stupid and got tazed. Everyone will now assume you have a vendetta.

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Achim_LC posted:

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He gave a false name and refused to stop. For all the Ranger knew he was a wanted felon. He deserved to get tazed.

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Caledric posted:

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Dog owners who were there before the park moved in are clearly in the right. Also, those precious flowers were fine with the dogs for 32 years, why all of a sudden they need protected.

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TickyAtack posted:

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Achim_LC posted:

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He gave a false name and refused to stop. For all the Ranger knew he was a wanted felon. He deserved to get tazed.

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Yeah definitely. I say just assume he's a wanted serial murderer and shoot him. Case closed.

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Achim_LC posted:

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Yeah, you are right. They should just let anyone who doesn't want to stop leave. What could go wrong?

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Achim_LC posted:

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Refusing to stop and giving false information to police. If a Peace Officer tells you to stop. Stop. Giving False information is a misdemeanor. The guy was all kinds of stupid and the Officer had every right to use force to gain compliance with a lawful order.

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Reapist posted:

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"national park ranger" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Park_Ranger

They do have law enforcement authority. They are not glorified scout leaders.

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tantallous posted:

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blind obedience? how about if people would just attempt to see how far not being an ass might actually get them.

you do something that you aren't allowed to do. you get caught. man up and take responsibility for it. don't be a little bitch about it.

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TickyAtack posted:

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Achim_LC posted:

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He gave a false name and refused to stop. For all the Ranger knew he was a wanted felon. He deserved to get tazed.

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Yeah definitely. I say just assume he's a wanted serial murderer and shoot him. Case closed.

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BritonGuy posted:

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tantallous posted:

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blind obedience? how about if people would just attempt to see how far not being an ass might actually get them.

you do something that you aren't allowed to do. you get caught. man up and take responsibility for it. don't be a little bitch about it.

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You just described blind obedience. Electrocuting some guy for being outside with his dog makes the park ranger the bigger ass, and is an abuse of power. How do you respect a uniform that electrocutes peaceful dog owners? Respect is earned, not mandated.

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Reapist posted:

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BritonGuy posted:

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tantallous posted:

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blind obedience? how about if people would just attempt to see how far not being an ass might actually get them.

you do something that you aren't allowed to do. you get caught. man up and take responsibility for it. don't be a little bitch about it.

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You just described blind obedience. Electrocuting some guy for being outside with his dog makes the park ranger the bigger ass, and is an abuse of power. How do you respect a uniform that electrocutes peaceful dog owners? Respect is earned, not mandated.

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Respect for the badge is not earned.

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Jyiiga posted:

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Just shoot the damn dogs.

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TickyAtack posted:

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Reapist posted:

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My feelings on this are pretty simple. You respect the uniform. And yes, the laws may be stupid, but you don't change them by being obstinate. The ranger was trying to do her job and it really doesn't matter if she agrees with the rule or not, she was enforcing it. To treat her the way he did the idiot deserved to be tazed all to hell. There are ways to change rules you do not agree with, but treating an obviously armed and uniformed official is not the way. Go to meeting. Speak your mind. Get others involved. Start a petition. Get the local media involved. But don't do this after you were stupid and got tazed. Everyone will now assume you have a vendetta.

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Yeah lets let officers tase you for walking away during a trivial offense in which there is no danger to anyone or anything (except apparently, a flower)


We'll just start tasing people because they're potentially causing harm to a flower.

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tantallous posted:

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not sure if the tazing was necessary or not. there was only one or two lines in that article about the incident itself. If you think a law is wrong, then you work to change the law. you don't ignore the law, unless you are willing to accept the consequences of that decision.

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BritonGuy posted:

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tantallous posted:

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not sure if the tazing was necessary or not. there was only one or two lines in that article about the incident itself. If you think a law is wrong, then you work to change the law. you don't ignore the law, unless you are willing to accept the consequences of that decision.

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There isn't a law that says we need park rangers running around our forests tasering dog owners. I checked.

Get rid of excessive force and save tax dollars at the same time by firing the supervisor and the ranger. Badges and uniforms work for the people, not the other way around. Zero tolerance is the only way to handle abuse of power.

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Gildash posted:

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The ranger tried to give him a ticket, but Hesterberg allegedly gave her a false name and refused to stop. John Bartlett was there, and saw Hesterberg collapse onto the ground.


Stopped reading after that.

Idiot wants to disrespect a uniform doing his job as he is supposed to be doing it? Fine. Take your ticket. Idiot wants to refuse to cooperate? Fine. Get tazed.

Tazers are specifically designed to be used as less than lethal force. It was either that or tackle the guy and break some bones.

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BritonGuy posted:

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Gildash posted:

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The ranger tried to give him a ticket, but Hesterberg allegedly gave her a false name and refused to stop. John Bartlett was there, and saw Hesterberg collapse onto the ground.


Stopped reading after that.

Idiot wants to disrespect a uniform doing his job as he is supposed to be doing it? Fine. Take your ticket. Idiot wants to refuse to cooperate? Fine. Get tazed.

Tazers are specifically designed to be used as less than lethal force. It was either that or tackle the guy and break some bones.

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False dilemma logical fallacy spotted. Your argument is invalid.

There is no reason a ranger should be ticketing or using force on a peaceful citizen in the first place. It was the uniform showing disrespect for the job and the citizen. Fire them.

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Gildash posted:

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BritonGuy posted:

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tantallous posted:

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not sure if the tazing was necessary or not. there was only one or two lines in that article about the incident itself. If you think a law is wrong, then you work to change the law. you don't ignore the law, unless you are willing to accept the consequences of that decision.

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There isn't a law that says we need park rangers running around our forests tasering dog owners. I checked.

Get rid of excessive force and save tax dollars at the same time by firing the supervisor and the ranger. Badges and uniforms work for the people, not the other way around. Zero tolerance is the only way to handle abuse of power.

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Ok. Explain to me what you think should have happened.

"Sir you need those dogs on a leash"

"No" *walks away*

"Sir, I'm going to have to give you a ticket, your name please?"

"Joe Blow. *walks away*"

Ranger says/does: ???

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Caledric posted:

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Dear god, please stop calling him a cop or an officer. PARK RANGERS ARE NOT POLICE.

A better example would be to ignore the citation of a hall monitor in an elementary school, or the bouncer at a club. Yeah they can ask you to leave. But they cannot actually enforce it unless they are threatened with harm, and all they can do then is DEFEND themselves, if they can escape the situation, they have to.

The way the Ranger should have handled things was to let the person and his dogs walk away and then pull his nifty radio off his belt and call back to the station with a description of the individual, location where the incident occurred, and what occurred. The station would then call the local police who would send a REAL officer out to handle things.

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Rangers posted:

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TYPICAL TASKS

Positions in the State Park Ranger series perform professional and technical duties in State park units involving operation, interpretation, resource protection/management, patrol, safety and law enforcement, assist with program management activities, and may supervise and/or serve as a lead to seasonal and lower level permanent staff. Incumbents may also perform staff functions of comparable difficulty and responsibility in an academy training assignment.

Incumbents are trained and designated as sworn State park peace officers whose authority extends statewide (on or off duty). They perform patrol duties primarily by vehicle, boat, and foot patrol; issue citations; write reports; make physical arrests for misdemeanors, felonies, and warrants; conduct criminal and administrative investigations; take command in emergencies; perform search and rescue activities, including detecting and rescuing persons or vessels in distress; assist in wildland and structural fire suppression; provide emergency medical aid; may also perform traffic control and radio dispatching.

Incumbents may perform specialized assignments in cliff rescue; ski patrol; scuba diving; ocean, surf, river, and lake rescue; horse patrol; off-road vehicle and motorcycle patrol; or canine team handler.

Incumbents are required to use protective equipment which includes various types of firearms, batons, chemical agents, and handcuffs,and are regularly trained and tested in physical defensive tactics and firearms use.

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Gildash posted:

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BritonGuy posted:

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Gildash posted:

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The ranger tried to give him a ticket, but Hesterberg allegedly gave her a false name and refused to stop. John Bartlett was there, and saw Hesterberg collapse onto the ground.


Stopped reading after that.

Idiot wants to disrespect a uniform doing his job as he is supposed to be doing it? Fine. Take your ticket. Idiot wants to refuse to cooperate? Fine. Get tazed.

Tazers are specifically designed to be used as less than lethal force. It was either that or tackle the guy and break some bones.

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False dilemma logical fallacy spotted. Your argument is invalid.

There is no reason a ranger should be ticketing or using force on a peaceful citizen in the first place. It was the uniform showing disrespect for the job and the citizen. Fire them.

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You sir, are a F***ing troll and a fool.

Good day.

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BritonGuy posted:

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You are in fact using a false dilemma as the basis for your outrageous argument, in an attempt to defend excessive force.

I figured you'd have nothing more to say after I pointed that out. "Harm the passive citizen, or harm the passive citizen" isn't much of an argument you can defend, is it.

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Gildash posted:

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Rangers posted:

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TYPICAL TASKS
Incumbents are trained and designated as sworn State park peace officers whose authority extends statewide (on or off duty). They perform patrol duties primarily by vehicle, boat, and foot patrol; issue citations; write reports; make physical arrests for misdemeanors, felonies, and warrants; conduct criminal and administrative investigations; take command in emergencies; perform search and rescue activities, including detecting and rescuing persons or vessels in distress; assist in wildland and structural fire suppression; provide emergency medical aid; may also perform traffic control and radio dispatching.

Incumbents may perform specialized assignments in cliff rescue; ski patrol; scuba diving; ocean, surf, river, and lake rescue; horse patrol; off-road vehicle and motorcycle patrol; or canine team handler.

Incumbents are required to use protective equipment which includes various types of firearms, batons, chemical agents, and handcuffs,and are regularly trained and tested in physical defensive tactics and firearms use.

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Sounds like a cop to me.

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Caledric posted:

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Achim_LC posted:

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Refusing to stop and giving false information to police. If a Peace Officer tells you to stop. Stop. Giving False information is a misdemeanor. The guy was all kinds of stupid and the Officer had every right to use force to gain compliance with a lawful order.

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Except a Ranger is not a Peace Officer.

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Rangers posted:

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Incumbents are trained and designated as sworn State park peace officers whose authority extends statewide (on or off duty).

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Gildash posted:

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BritonGuy posted:

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You are in fact using a false dilemma as the basis for your outrageous argument, in an attempt to defend excessive force.

I figured you'd have nothing more to say after I pointed that out. "Harm the passive citizen, or harm the passive citizen" isn't much of an argument you can defend, is it.

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BritonGuy posted:

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Fixing your tunnel vision for you. You're welcome.

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Kordirn posted:

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So I guess we never have to worry about a citation from a park ranger again?

Just give false info and walk away lololololol

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aon_mixed posted:

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shoulda tazed the dog

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Caledric posted:

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Kordirn posted:

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So I guess we never have to worry about a citation from a park ranger again?

Just give false info and walk away lololololol

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wrong, if the park ranger knows how to do his job he'll have a description of you, and he can follow you back to your vehicle and write down that information as well. If you decide to just walk around and try to avoid going back to your vehicle and waste your time, you will eventually be looking at an actual police officer who was called in by the ranger.

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Gildash posted:

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TickyAtack posted:

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Reapist posted:

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My feelings on this are pretty simple. You respect the uniform. And yes, the laws may be stupid, but you don't change them by being obstinate. The ranger was trying to do her job and it really doesn't matter if she agrees with the rule or not, she was enforcing it. To treat her the way he did the idiot deserved to be tazed all to hell. There are ways to change rules you do not agree with, but treating an obviously armed and uniformed official is not the way. Go to meeting. Speak your mind. Get others involved. Start a petition. Get the local media involved. But don't do this after you were stupid and got tazed. Everyone will now assume you have a vendetta.

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Yeah lets let officers tase you for walking away during a trivial offense in which there is no danger to anyone or anything (except apparently, a flower)


We'll just start tasing people because they're potentially causing harm to a flower.

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Are you f***ing retarded?

Go let a cop catch you for committing a minor offense and then run away while he tries to give you a ticket....let us know how jail is.

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aon_mixed posted:

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aon_mixed posted:

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shoulda tazed the dog

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Bat_Avenger posted:

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LOL California

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Caledric posted:

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Dog owners who were there before the park moved in are clearly in the right. Also, those precious flowers were fine with the dogs for 32 years, why all of a sudden they need protected.

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