AzureTyger
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Typically they are less qualified. The difference between private schools and public schools is that private schools have a better quality of student by far and far more flexibility to respond to problems with students.
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Cawlin
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Private school teachers make considerably less money too.
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Akza
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Brother_Tempar posted:
But but.. the public schools would brainwash my kids!! 
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Cawlin
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Don't forget that when private schools have a more "capable" crop of students to work with, they can devote more time to actually teaching and less time to baby sitting and breaking up drug deals and stopping them from humping each other like dogs in the hallway...
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paulg_68
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Let me guess. We know that public school teachers are better based on standards set by the government?
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AzureTyger
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Cawlin posted:
Private school teachers make considerably less money too.
Yes, and they should in general because they don't usually have to deal with the sort of special IEPs and range of student disabilities and behavioral disorders. They can also rely on administrations that are more responsive to both student issues and parental interference.
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Cawlin
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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To be fair, the only reason most public school teachers have degrees beyond bachelor's degrees is because a) they get reimbursed for continuing education costs, and b) they get more money for a higher degree because the union doesn't let performance play much of a factor in compensation.
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paulg_68
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Cawlin posted:
To be fair, the only reason most public school teachers have degrees beyond bachelor's degrees is because a) they get reimbursed for continuing education costs, and b) they get more money for a higher degree because the union doesn't let performance play much of a factor in compensation.
This. My Mom had her "Masters + 40" solely for the purpose of getting to the top of the teachers wage scale.
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Yukishiro1
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The thing about private schools is there is tremendous diversity.
The private high school I went to, 30% of the teachers had PhDs. Most of them had been teaching for decades. Many of them had taught at the university level in some craphole and then moved to my school because of the location.
Then there's the (often religious) private school where math classes are taught by some 23 year old priest in training who barely made it out of high school. But then there are also religious private schools where the teachers are all extraordinarily well trained and qualified intellectuals.
There is just a lot more variety. Talking about "private school teachers" in general doesn't get you very far.
What is totally true about all private schools is that they choose their students. This has massive cascading effects that impact every angle of teaching.
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Brother_Tempus
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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AzureTyger posted:
Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
Maybe, but at least they are not leeching off the taxpayer while propping up a failed , illegal system that is condemning children to a very bleak future.
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Grymlo
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Teachers in private schools are held responsible for their students and dont have the union backing them up no matter how shitty of a teacher they are.
Teaching is a calling. Certain people can do it while most cant or dont want anything to do with it. Its mostly going to be a low paying job with little respect sadly.
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Szerek
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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paulg_68 posted:
Let me guess. We know that public school teachers are better based on standards set by the government?
Yes! This is why all politicians and wealthy people send their kids to public schools!
Wait....
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Sin_of_Onin
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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I have sent my kid to both a high priced private school and a public one. The public school has been way better for my child. It wasn't even remotely close.
Public schools have a lot of problems but the failures shouldn't overshadow the success stories to the point that people think all public schools suck or that failure is the standard. It isn't.
The children and parents have changed though.
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Kordirn
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Brother_Tempus posted:
AzureTyger posted:
Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
Maybe, but at least they are not leeching off the taxpayer while propping up a failed , illegal system that is condemning children to a very bleak future.
BT is the perfect example of the failure of our public school system.
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SoBaKi
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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paulg_68 posted:
Let me guess. We know that public school teachers are better based on standards set by the government?
As usual, you're not paying attention.
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Eager_Igraine
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Yukishiro1 posted:
The thing about private schools is there is tremendous diversity.
The private high school I went to, 30% of the teachers had PhDs. Most of them had been teaching for decades. Many of them had taught at the university level in some craphole and then moved to my school because of the location.
Then there's the (often religious) private school where math classes are taught by some 23 year old priest in training who barely made it out of high school. But then there are also religious private schools where the teachers are all extraordinarily well trained and qualified intellectuals.
There is just a lot more variety. Talking about "private school teachers" in general doesn't get you very far.
What is totally true about all private schools is that they choose their students. This has massive cascading effects that impact every angle of teaching.
I'm often fascinated by efforts to compare public and private school because I'm aware of this incredible diversity in quality in the private school system.
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PackHunter
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Brother_Tempus posted:
AzureTyger posted:
Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
Maybe, but at least they are not leeching off the taxpayer while propping up a failed , illegal system that is condemning children to a very bleak future.
Capitalism, right?
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Mastara
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I just think private schools might be able to give the child more one on one teaching to play to the childs strengths. I wish I could get my kids in private school when they are old enough. Sadly its kind of expensive.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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AzureTyger posted:
Typically they are less qualified. The difference between private schools and public schools is that private schools have a better quality of student by far and far more flexibility to respond to problems with students.
This myth has been refuted many times. It never stops brain dead liberals from repeating it. The difference between private and public schools is results. Those results are proven over and over again. Sadly the liberals are so captured by teacher unions that they refuse to believe the truth. They would rather condemn a generation to ignorance and poverty than go against their masters. If course there is the theory that the public schools are working as desizend. You cannot enslave an educuated population. It takes mob action. I don't believe that but I have trouble proving them wrong.
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Brother_Tempus
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Kordirn posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
AzureTyger posted:
Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
Maybe, but at least they are not leeching off the taxpayer while propping up a failed , illegal system that is condemning children to a very bleak future.
BT is the perfect example of the failure of our public school system.
To bad I went to private school, and so do my kids
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Tych2
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That's not an endorsement!
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Brother_Tempus
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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PackHunter posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
AzureTyger posted:
Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
Maybe, but at least they are not leeching off the taxpayer while propping up a failed , illegal system that is condemning children to a very bleak future.
Capitalism, right?
free-market capitalism ..
free-market capitalism will always ensure the best service ( in this case education) at the lowest price and will still achieve profit .. which would mean more jobs and more wealth
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Akza
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Brother_Tempus posted:
PackHunter posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
[quote=AzureTyger]Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
Maybe, but at least they are not leeching off the taxpayer while propping up a failed , illegal system that is condemning children to a very bleak future.
Capitalism, right?
free-market capitalism ..
free-market capitalism will always ensure the best service ( in this case education) at the lowest price and will still achieve profit .. which would mean more jobs and more wealth[/quote]
rofl. you do realize it gravitates towards slave/cheap labor right? sure everyone has a job then... awesome!
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cabbyman
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All of my kids go to private or parochial schools.
I have more say in their education and the teachers have more control.
It is a better arrangement than the public schools. The teachers are empowered, kids are held responsible, and I am kept in the loop. I get bi-weekly grade reports and know pretty quickly when things start going wrong. Are the teachers better? Probably not. Is the education better? Hell yes.
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PackHunter
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Brother_Tempus posted:
free-market capitalism ..
Show me, on a map, where on Earth this mythical "fwee-mawhket capitalism" is actually in practice.
HINT: Nowhere. Dumbass.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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AzureTyger posted:
Typically they are less qualified.
I'm curious to know how the 'qualifications' you cite make them better or worse at performing the act of teaching.
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Bonzoboy1
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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cabbyman posted:
All of my kids go to private or parochial schools.
I have more say in their education and the teachers have more control.
It is a better arrangement than the public schools. The teachers are empowered, kids are held responsible, and I am kept in the loop. I get bi-weekly grade reports and know pretty quickly when things start going wrong. Are the teachers better? Probably not. Is the education better? Hell yes.
Exactly, parents have the power in private schools and not the teachers union.
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AzureTyger
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Teacher's unions have less power than administration/politics and parents/community in most school districts.
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Bonzoboy1
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Is that why in the LAUSD it costs around $500k and takes several years to fire a teacher?
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eodoll
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The students at private schools are usually better.
Schools have more to do with what students are there and the demands their parents place on them - that's why it's all about neighborhood and if you need to live in a bad neighborhood (ex. in a city) then private school is a good option.
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__Bonk__
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Students at private schools do better for one reason. The parents. The parents care enough about their kids education they actually pay for their kids education and they take an active interest in that education and they make their kids do homework and study. They are motivated involved parents
The teachers might not be better but the parents are involved and care.
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Brother_Tempus
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PackHunter posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
free-market capitalism ..
Show me, on a map, where on Earth this mythical "fwee-mawhket capitalism" is actually in practice.
The internet
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AzureTyger posted:
Teacher's unions have less power than administration/politics and parents/community in most school districts.
get the wading boots ... AT is piling it on in this thread
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eodoll
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Different kids are raised differently. I remember when I was in school - some kids came from good families that taught them to respect their elders. And some of the kids came from bad families - those students would yell at the teacher, they'd argue, etc... You can tell how someone is raised by the way they behave in public.
Those bad students were a disruption. My parents taught me to respect my elders - i never even considered it an option to get up and yell at my teacher.
I still remember one day I walked into a class in high school and took a seat - I guess some mexican gangster girl had that seat and she just came up to me and started screaming at me 'THATS MY CHAIR! GET THE F OFF!' LOL - I wasn't afraid but I was so embarrased, i got up and went to the other seat. Who the hell goes irate like that? I went to a good school but they allowed bad kids to come.
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Tych2
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Brother_Tempus posted:
PackHunter posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
free-market capitalism ..
Show me, on a map, where on Earth this mythical "fwee-mawhket capitalism" is actually in practice.
The internet
Are you kidding me?
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__Bonk__
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yep thats anotehr point. Private schools weed out the bad keys by requiring parent to pay.
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Brother_Tempus
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Tych2 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
PackHunter posted:
[quote=Brother_Tempus]free-market capitalism ..
Show me, on a map, where on Earth this mythical "fwee-mawhket capitalism" is actually in practice.
The internet
Are you kidding me? [/quote]
What government actually controls the internet? Not one. Sure they can try to do things but the internet circumvents the attempts that are made.
One only has to look at how miserably the country of North Africa "controlled" the internet. And the rest of the nations are no better.
Even China fails and it makes the best effort to force something ephemeral as the net to bend to its wishes.
Websites and web tools come and go as those the best service with the best price rank supreme.
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poetkiosk
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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There are also competitive public schools that require intense competition.
In NYC, there are 9 elite "specialized" high schools that accept maybe 400 students from 10,000 or more applications. Acceptance is based on an admission test, as well as in an audition (at some schools).
This also exists at the junior high level as well (to a lesser extent)
My daughter goes to one of those elite schools.
http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/734BB461-5872-44A6-8A3E-4899164E5F4F/0/SHSAT_2011_HandbookFinal.pdf
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Brother_Tempus
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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poetkiosk posted:
There are also competitive public schools that require intense competition.
Competition among children for an education paid for by the money stolen from their parents by government
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poetkiosk
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Brother_Tempus posted:
poetkiosk posted:
There are also competitive public schools that require intense competition.
Competition among children for an education paid for by the money stolen from their parents by government
What are you saying? That it's not competitive when they accept 600 out of 10-20k?
And how is it stolen ? I pay taxes gladly and my taxes pay for the school.
Really not seeing your point.
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PackHunter
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Brother_Tempus posted:
The internet
Not sure Amazon would agree with you there skippy...
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Groucho48
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Here in Buffalo, we have the City Honors School, which is rated as one of the best schools in the country. Why? Because it can select its students from among the best. It can also select its teachers from among the best, as public schools pay better and offer better benefits.
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poetkiosk
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Groucho48 posted:
Here in Buffalo, we have the City Honors School, which is rated as one of the best schools in the country. Why? Because it can select its students from among the best. It can also select its teachers from among the best, as public schools pay better and offer better benefits.
I think there are some crappy schools out there, but the trick is making everyone accountable. Teachers should be accountable - yep fire those crappy teachers and pay good teachers more - but hold the principals accountable and the parents...and oh did we forget ----- THE STUDENTS!!!!
We have created a culture of insane empowerment. When I was a kid, you wished the damn sister would hit you, because the beating at home was twice as bad if she called. My mother threw a soup can at my face and broke my nose - just saying.
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AzureTyger
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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In CPS, tenure is granted by administration and firing teachers is mostly a matter of following protocol and documentation. But since most of the administrators here are career morons they don't do either of those jobs well. This is also the teachers union's fault.
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Groucho48
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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AzureTyger posted:
In CPS, tenure is granted by administration and firing teachers is mostly a matter of following protocol and documentation. But since most of the administrators here are career morons they don't do either of those jobs well. This is also the teachers union's fault.
Standard for a lot of places with unions. people can't get fired on a whim, or to make room for nephew Buddy. There has to be reasons and procedures have to be followed. The procedures are pretty straight forward. For, say, a relatively minor problem like consistent tardiness...there has to be a verbal warning, if that doesn't work, a written warning, if that doesn't work, they can be sent back home without pay if they are late more than, I think, three times in a three month period. If that doesn't work, I think unpaid suspension is next, followed by being fired. The whole process takes maybe a year.
We had several folks who were late all the time, but, they got away with it because supervision wouldn't follow the procedures, the person would file a grievance and the union would come in. The union wasn't necessarily defending the guy's right to be late all the time; they were defending the procedures. Administration would always lose the fight because they always skipped steps. Or, and this was just as common, they would treat folks differently. They'd let folks with really bad records slide and come down on someone who barely met the threshold for being disciplined. If that person could show that the rules weren't being applied evenly, he or she would win the grievance. Overall, I'd say favoritism was the biggest factor in the lack of success administration had with disciplining employees. If administration lets one person be late every other day, then, they can't stop everyone from being late every other day. They only get away with it because the vast majority of folks are good, dedicated workers who don't take advantage.
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Bobvillas
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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I went to what is considered the "best" private school in St Louis.
My junior high/middle school years were in public schools.
There was a huge gap between the two.
My children will go to a private school as well.
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__Bonk__ posted:
The parents care enough about their kids education they actually pay for their kids education
We care so much we pay for our kids directly and the kids going through public schools indirectly.
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Bonzoboy1
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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AzureTyger posted:
In CPS, tenure is granted by administration and firing teachers is mostly a matter of following protocol and documentation. But since most of the administrators here are career morons they don't do either of those jobs well. This is also the teachers union's fault.
You should examine California practices some time
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/03/local/me-teachers3
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Brother_Tempus
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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PackHunter posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
The internet
Not sure Amazon would agree with you there skippy...
How so?
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The fact is that their should be a choose. Sadly liberals only believe in one choice to fight for. The rest of the time they want to restrict chooses to what they think looks best to them. They ignore or mock anyone who fights for real freedom and free choice.
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Sezyrrith
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Teachers at private schools aren't better than teachers at public schools
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
AzureTyger posted:
Typically they are less qualified. The difference between private schools and public schools is that private schools have a better quality of student by far and far more flexibility to respond to problems with students.
This myth has been refuted many times. It never stops brain dead liberals from repeating it. The difference between private and public schools is results. Those results are proven over and over again. Sadly the liberals are so captured by teacher unions that they refuse to believe the truth. They would rather condemn a generation to ignorance and poverty than go against their masters. If course there is the theory that the public schools are working as desizend. You cannot enslave an educuated population. It takes mob action. I don't believe that but I have trouble proving them wrong.
[Bolded bit]If you're talking about the 'less qualified' bit, then sure - I fairly well disagree with that.
However, if you're saying that being choosy about which students enter a private school doesn't skew results in their favor, then you're wearing blinders imo. How could it NOT skew results in favor of private schools if they refuse to let anyone who doesn't score at least X on an entrance exam even enter the school? If they expel anyone doing poorly? Of course that leads to a higher average grade. The quality of the teacher would hardly matter, at this point - parents are invested, and probably worry about their social status dropping if their child is removed, so they're more interested. The kids also feel peer pressure and parental pressure to avoid shame, which motivates them, not to mention the likelihood of hiring a private tutor if their grades begin to slip.
[Italicized bit]If liberals are so hell-bent on enslaving an uneducated populace, why are they in such a hurry to increase funding toward college educations, allowing people to have a chance to become more educated?
See, I ask because I work with this guy who's extremely conservative. His view tends towards only the 'elite' getting a college education (the ones with the money to afford it and the skill set to do well in college) stating that any outside funding (Pell grants, for instance) is a 'bleeding heart liberal' thing that is destroying the country etc. What you stated seems more along those lines than what liberals are actually doing, so I'm curious where you hear that idea, that liberals want people to remain uneducated. It just doesn't seem to fit very well.
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