imaloon1
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Would you all support having another one? I think it's time don't ya'll?
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Moe_Nox
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Ofcourse its time, its way past time for one. Most citizens would support having one and most political parties will fight against having one.
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illmyrin
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I would not. The people with the influence over the process are the enemy of everything the Constitution intended to defend against.
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imaloon1
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It's not about going through the channels though it's about having 250 million people showing up in DC asking for a do over.
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SoBaKi
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illmyrin posted:
I would not. The people with the influence over the process are the enemy of everything the Constitution intended to defend against.
More specifically, organized religion.
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paulg_68
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The people who wrote our original Constitution risked their lives for that opportunity.
It would be a mistake to let people participate who weren't willing to face a similar risk for the right.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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I'm fine with one, maybe two, targeted amendments.
A convention with the current level of populism and ignorance in this country would be a COMPLETE clusterf*ck.
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imaloon1
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I do not believe that. I believe that's what you're shown on a nightly basis, but the overwhelming majority of people in this country are just what you would expect out of a populace who just isn't given a fair chance anymore.
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Scarne
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I can certainly imagine that a convention now would get some sort of "... but not freedom from religion" argle-bargle added so Christians can go back to posting the Ten Commandments everywhere and have school-led prayer sessions at public schools. 
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Koneg
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imaloon1 posted:
Would you all support having another one? I think it's time don't ya'll?
Minor changes can be handled via the Amendment process.
This being the case, the only reason to have a constitutional convention would be if you want to completely re-write it or radically alter the current one? What needs such radical alteration?
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Brother_Tempus
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one question, what will be the status of those states who do not ratify the new Constituon, especially if there are enough of them to make the "new state" non-contiguous
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Kjarhall
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imaloon1 posted:
I do not believe that. I believe that's what you're shown on a nightly basis, but the overwhelming majority of people in this country are just what you would expect out of a populace who just isn't given a fair chance anymore.
The majority of the people in this country have no clue about most things, this easily being one of them.
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Scarne
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Brother_Tempus posted:
one question, what will be the status of those states who do not ratify the new Constituon, especially if there are enough of them to make the "new state" non-contiguous
If enough states ratify, then it applies to everyone, not just the states that ratify.
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Ptilk
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What exactly would be the purpose of a constitutional convention (AKA a revolt and overthrow of the country) other than getting all the "states rights" nuts in one place so we could arrest them all and send them to Gitmo?
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Tych2
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imaloon1 posted:
It's not about going through the channels though it's about having 250 million people showing up in DC asking for a do over.
We couldn't have 250 million in DC! That's too many people. We'd flip the continent over!!! 
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Taliesihne
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I'm not opposed to the idea. The devil is in the details however.
I also think it's generally not a good time for it.
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Kjarhall
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Brother_Tempus posted:
one question, what will be the status of those states who do not ratify the new Constituon, especially if there are enough of them to make the "new state" non-contiguous
They'd all band together to build a giant bunker, so they'd have somewhere to roll around in their piles of gold and canned goods.
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Koneg
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Ptilk posted:
What exactly would be the purpose of a constitutional convention (AKA a revolt and overthrow of the country) other than getting all the "states rights" nuts in one place so we could arrest them all and send them to Gitmo?
You really don't understand what the Constitution is, do you?
The Constitution defines the limits of the Federal Government. That's it. That's all it does. "This is what you can do in a nutshell" for the Federal Government.
Literally everything else is by definition and specific intent a "State Right", not a Federal one.
If you are opposed to such a fundamental precept of our Republic the only conclusion one can logically draw from that is that you are in favor of total Federal authority. In other words, you want a dictatorship, not a Republic?
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Brother_Tempus
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Scarne posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
one question, what will be the status of those states who do not ratify the new Constituon, especially if there are enough of them to make the "new state" non-contiguous
If enough states ratify, then it applies to everyone, not just the states that ratify.
and if there is not enough or enough to say we don't care about majority ratification? Without a credible external threat as the alternative to sink or swim with the majority, there is no way to coerce states that do not want to play ball
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Tych2
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Kjarhall posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
one question, what will be the status of those states who do not ratify the new Constituon, especially if there are enough of them to make the "new state" non-contiguous
They'd all band together to build a giant bunker, so they'd have somewhere to roll around in their piles of gold and canned goods.
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Aerlinthian
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
A convention with the current level of populism and ignorance in this country would be a COMPLETE clusterf*ck.
As much as I desperately want this showdown, unfortunately I am forced to agree. Too many Americans today just don't understand anything about the basic foundations of this country. In their mind it is; "America means freedom! Derp derp!" And then when questioned in any depth they immediately demonstrate that they think purely in contemporary sheeple of establishment head bobble group think.
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Tych2
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Brother_Tempus posted:
and if there is not enough or enough to say we don't care about majority ratification?
Then you better have a bigger military. 
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Taliesihne
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The constitution defines federal limits, is the blueprint for the formation of our government and expounds which individual rights it is supposed to protect.
If you are going to beat on someone for not understanding the constitution Metal Face, it helps if you provide an accurate description yourself.
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Koneg
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Brother_Tempus posted:
there is no way to coerce states that do not want to play ball
Uhm... whut?
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Moe_Nox
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Tych2 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
and if there is not enough or enough to say we don't care about majority ratification?
Then you better have a bigger military.
Might makes right! 
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Brother_Tempus
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Tych2 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
and if there is not enough or enough to say we don't care about majority ratification?
Then you better have a bigger military.
you better hope one if those states that does not want to play doesn't have nukes
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Koneg
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Brother_Tempus posted:
you better hope one if those states that does not want to play doesn't have nukes
Well, no State has nukes, so... ?
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m509
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Koneg posted:
Literally everything else is by definition and specific intent a "State Right", not a Federal one.
I love this RWN talking point. It's like paying a $99 bill with a hundred and proudly saying "keep the change".
Of course, talking points are much easier than actually reading parts of the Constitution, such as the Commerce Clause, for example.
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theredkay1
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Koneg posted:
Ptilk posted:
What exactly would be the purpose of a constitutional convention (AKA a revolt and overthrow of the country) other than getting all the "states rights" nuts in one place so we could arrest them all and send them to Gitmo?
You really don't understand what the Constitution is, do you?
The Constitution defines the limits of the Federal Government. That's it. That's all it does. "This is what you can do in a nutshell" for the Federal Government.
Literally everything else is by definition and specific intent a "State Right", not a Federal one.
If you are opposed to such a fundamental precept of our Republic the only conclusion one can logically draw from that is that you are in favor of total Federal authority. In other words, you want a dictatorship, not a Republic?
Couldnt come up with an answer huh? You could have just said, 'I dunno, sounds fun!'
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Tych2
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Tych2 posted:
Brother_Tempus posted:
and if there is not enough or enough to say we don't care about majority ratification?
Then you better have a bigger military.
you better hope one if those states that does not want to play doesn't have nukes
Nukes are owned by the fed not the states, but I DO believe you would be stupid enough to use nukes in your own yard!
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Koneg
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theredkay1 posted:
Couldnt come up with an answer huh? You could have just said, 'I dunno, sounds fun!'
Maybe you'd care to actually read the thread before you post? Might help...
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NuEM
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Sounds like a good idea. Wonder when we will get one.
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imaloon1
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Brother_Tempus posted:
one question, what will be the status of those states who do not ratify the new Constituon, especially if there are enough of them to make the "new state" non-contiguous
I'd say I hope we can maintain good trade relations with you.
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theredkay1
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Koneg posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Couldnt come up with an answer huh? You could have just said, 'I dunno, sounds fun!'
Maybe you'd care to actually read the thread before you post? Might help...
Ptilk agreed with your first comment in this thread....but added a touch of hyperbole.
You responded with something that didnt address the question that you and he both raised.....whats the point of this convention exactly? Instead you just ranted about something completely off topic.
/shrug
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Brother_Tempus
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NuEM posted:
Sounds like a good idea. Wonder when we will get one.
when the unelected EU parliment actually holds a referendum where the people willingly vote yes
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NuEM
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Oh come on. Unelected Commission okay. Unelected Council okay. Those are stupid examples but at least it'd be right insofar that the general public doesn't directly elect those. But unelected Parliament? That's just dumb. 
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Allstarslacker
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I do think we are in need of an updated constitution, but I am unsure of how you could go about having a constitutional convention that wouldn't end up giving the powers that be even more power.
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Thugoneous
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You would have a military state afterwards regardless of what the new constitution wanted.
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Not unless the end result is more control over the government or giving Americans more rights
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