Abaddon_Ambrosius
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ARE F*CKING INSANE.
Cap and balance amendment. Nao. Get it moving.
Needs to be ready for activation in about 3 years.
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Ptilk
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The fascination and preoccupation with government debt is a sure sign of you needing a more well rounded education on financial matters.
The easiest way to reduce the ratio of debt to GDP is not to start austerity measures in a futile attempt to pay down the debt by destroying the economy...it's to increase GDP, something austerity never does. Ever.
Think about it.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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I arrived at my concern about debt AFTER a long journey of fiscal, economic and business study. Including an advanced degree, about 5 related consortiums, etc.
So... suck it.
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Allstarslacker
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How big is your dick?
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Bigger than ANY of you can handle.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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(Except cabby's mom).
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Testerion
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PRINT MOAR MONEY!!!
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AzureTyger
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Abaddon_Ambrosius, MBA posted:
Appeal to University of Phoenix Online
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Using the mirror of ridicule to force conservatives to
confront their own stupidity.
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theredkay1
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
During a recession, the government must be forced to turn it into a depression. There is no other way. Think of the children.
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Bobvillas
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Ptilk posted:
The fascination and preoccupation with government debt is a sure sign of you needing a more well rounded education on financial matters.
The easiest way to reduce the ratio of debt to GDP is not to start austerity measures in a futile attempt to pay down the debt by destroying the economy...it's to increase GDP, something austerity never does. Ever.
Think about it.
The problem we are facing is that this should have been the mentality 50 years ago.
Now we are too far in the hole for our country to actually increase GDP fast enough to change course.
What you suggest is not something that can be done in the time frame we have.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Needs to be ready for activation in about 3 years.
Not surprising how the insane among you ignore little tidbits like that. Especially when I think ahead to type them in the OP itself.
It is an interesting case study how many of you are terrified completely sh*tless about having a government that lives within a limited means. ANY limit. On any time frame.
Extremism, much?
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imaloon1
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theredkay1 posted:
The government has no responsibility other than to provide sound currency ZOMG!!
[/quote]
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theredkay1
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Bobvillas posted:
Ptilk posted:
The fascination and preoccupation with government debt is a sure sign of you needing a more well rounded education on financial matters.
The easiest way to reduce the ratio of debt to GDP is not to start austerity measures in a futile attempt to pay down the debt by destroying the economy...it's to increase GDP, something austerity never does. Ever.
Think about it.
The problem we are facing is that this should have been the mentality 50 years ago.
Now we are too far in the hole for our country to actually increase GDP fast enough to change course.
What you suggest is not something that can be done in the time frame we have.
What time frame are you referring to? Too far in what hole? Given the market rate of gov't bonds, the rest of the world doesnt agree. Im always curious exactly what data people are looking at that makes them take your position. I know some people are making a moral argument against debt and dont feel there is any actual data that needs to be considered...but certainly not everyone is in that boat?
The medium term debt wasnt a problem just 11 short years ago. Half of Washington was panicked that we would pay off our debt too fast.
10 years of slow GDP growth plus forecasted future slow growth and future medicare spending are the only real budget problems over the long term. Planning to avoid massive economy crushing 5+ year recessions and slowing the growth of medical costs are really the only plans we need to tack the debt problem. But most are using it as a convenient excuse to wage their social war of choice.
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Bjorvald
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
ARE F*CKING INSANE.
Cap and balance amendment. Nao. Get it moving.
Needs to be ready for activation in about 3 years.
Don't forget, if you pay federal income tax, your share is double. Those who don't pay income taxes will not help with this debt.
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Yukishiro1
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AzureTyger posted:
Abaddon_Ambrosius, MBA posted:
Appeal to University of Phoenix Online
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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theredkay1 posted:
We know your stance already, red. You're a caricatured poster child for it.
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Yukishiro1
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Says the guy whose response to everything is "doesn't matter if I don't get my deficit cap amendment!!1111"
You are becoming like Fisted Puma.
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theredkay1
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theredkay1 posted:
Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
During a recession, the government must be forced to turn it into a depression. There is no other way. Think of the children.
Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
 I said in 3 years, everyone knows that after 2014 the country will never have recessions.
Oh, that makes alot more sense. How could I have missed that.
The 'live within its means' trope is always a confusing one. No qualification or explanation is ever given. Given the rate on gov't bonds, the US is living within its means. Just about every household and company uses some type of debt....but this phrase isnt used to slam every single person with a house/car/school loan and every company with outstanding bonds.
Allowing a recession to drag on for years because debt scares you is really a shame....5 years of slow growth, lost incomes, lost production...all of these costs will be passed on to future generations, but because it doesnt show up neatly on a balance sheet statement its easy for people to ignore. This kind of economic ignorance is widespread. 
Intelligent people really need to push back against this 'live within its means' line as it carries alot of weight with the sheeple I think. Applying this 'live within your means' scheme to households and businesses would crush most of them. Few entities get by without debt. This happens because debt is a wonderful instrument that allows people to get richer. Deferring costs into the future to a time when you will be wealthier often makes alot of sense. It makes sense for households, for business, and for governments. Individuals get old, stop working and die...so they cant keep rolling over debt forever. Countries dont face this problem. The sheeple get very confused by this as they think the gov't must face the same financial restrictions that they face. AA for example will one day find it harder to grow his income and this affects his ability to carry debt. The gov't doesnt have that problem. AA does not have an unlimited pile of dollars to make debt payments and this affects his ability to carry debt....again, the gov't doesnt have this problem. This is not a call for unlimited government debt, its just a reminder that AA is very, very confused.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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My stated position is simply "some limit that imposes a cap on spending and aligns it to revenue some number of years down the road."
I leave completely open to discussion the concepts of:
- What a cap is in % of gdp, or even another metric
- What emergency measures or over-run is allowed
- What supermajority has to approve emergencies
- How many years down the road we achieve revenue-spending parity
The opposition's position is:
EEEEEEEEEK! posted:
OMFG NO LIMITZ NO BALANCED BUDGET CAN'T EVEN START WORKING IT NOW OR BEFORE WHEN WE WERE FLUSH OR PRETTY MUCH EVER IN MY LIFETIME NO WAI!!!!!
So, who's the fanatic?
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Yukishiro1
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Probably the guy who posts stuff like "I don't care irrelevant without deficit amendment!" in any economic thread. 
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I fail logic 101.
Clearly.
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Yukishiro1
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Fat Douche, MBA posted:
NOTHING MATTERS EXCEPT A BALANCED DEFICIT AMENDMENT!
Other people posted:
No. Other stuff matters too.
Fat Douche, MBA posted:
Why are you all such fanatics?!1/1/1 It must be because you don't have an advanced business degree.
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Aerlinthian
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"we face the most predictable economic crisis in history"
That was the presidents [Obama] own National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform back in early 2011 and the numbers have only gotten worse since then. But you freaks go on and keep up the arglebarge.
Former Wyoming Senator Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles, the co-chairs of the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, told U.S. Senator Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., and other members of the Senate Budget Committee today that they must act on the commission's proposals because this country faces a crisis. "I think we face the most predictable economic crisis in history. A lot of us sitting in this room didn't see the last crisis as it came upon us, but this one is really easy to see. The fiscal path we are on today is simply not sustainable," Bowles said. "This debt and these deficits that we are incurring on an annual basis are like a cancer and they are going to truly destroy this country from within unless we have the common sense to do something about it." "People in America are way ahead of all of you," Simpson said. "They know that if you spend more than you earn, you lose your butt. They know that if you spend a buck and borrow 40 cents of it that you are stupid...this government is stupid to borrow 40 cents for every buck you spend."
http://youtu.be/Mb5-ZsDtH00
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Bobvillas
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theredkay1 posted:
Bobvillas posted:
Ptilk posted:
The easiest way to reduce the ratio of debt to GDP is not to start austerity measures in a futile attempt to pay down the debt by destroying the economy...it's to increase GDP, something austerity never does. Ever.
The problem we are facing is that this should have been the mentality 50 years ago.
Now we are too far in the hole for our country to actually increase GDP fast enough to change course.
What you suggest is not something that can be done in the time frame we have.
What time frame are you referring to? Too far in what hole? Given the market rate of gov't bonds, the rest of the world doesnt agree. I know some people are making a moral argument against debt and dont feel there is any actual data that needs to be considered...but certainly not everyone is in that boat?
The medium term debt wasnt a problem just 11 short years ago.
10 years of slow GDP growth plus forecasted future slow growth and future medicare spending are the only real budget problems over the long term.
The highlighted area is where you said what I said in response to the solution of raising our GDP.
I agree with you.
Just ten years ago, the CBO thought federal revenue would support entitlement spending and interest payments until 2060.
That is 35 years beyond the current projection.
Currently the CBO projects that by 2025 entitlements plus net interest payments will absorb ALL of our countries revenue.
Based on this we will have nothing left to spend on defense, education, infrastructure, and R&D.
This is not a moral issue on debt for me.
It is a realistic approach to the growth of our debt to our GDP.
Should all expense categories be benchmarked against GDP growth?
Should some grow faster or slower than GDP?
If so, what are the key determinants?
These are vital questions to our next 15 years as a nation.
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Ptilk
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Returning to 2001 tax rates and modest yearly GDP growth would soon fix the majority of budget problems. It's not an emergency, we aren't broke, we aren't in danger of going broke anytime soon.
Medicare is a growing problem and needs to be addressed, Obamacare is a step in the right direction, now we just need to add a single payer option and that will take care of most of it's issues eventually.
No matter how many "experts" scream that we are doomed, they are wrong. We aren't Greece, not even close. We just went thru the greatest world wide financial crises of the past 70+ years, of course debt increased. Panicking and making things MUCH worse by drastic cuts and short sighted stupidity demanding we "fix it now" is crazy.
Took us decades to get into the situation, we can take a little time to get out of it.
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Desnoxvu
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The graph shows a predictable consequence of our current monetary system. I used to be a liberal and believed in a big government model of economics. Then I learned about Austrian Economics and it was like waking up. The reasons for our bad economy and our debt became apparent. It was like looking at a 3d picture that finally popped out. Just like the 3d pictures some people just can't get it.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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@Ptilk: Correct. The balancing doesn't have to begin now. And it probably doesn't need to be finished in under, say, 10 years. Generously.
But if you are going to even start getting there, you have to start making every single financial decision against that framework of "mandatory cap and balance" a good 15+ years out. At the very least. Probably more.
So, we are at less than zero, right now, with that fiscal planning.
Now add 6-8 years to even get the constitutional & accounting framework in place.
Now add another 2-4 years to FIX that mess because it won't be quite right.
Now add another 2-4 to start really saving anything or seeing confidence benefit.
Now add at least another 6-8 years to actually bend the curve down sustainably... forget paying anything down.
Now your impoverished kids are thinking about having your grand kids. But they're deciding against, because we're in a trebled debt hole by this point.
Now shoot out at least 10 years past THAT to achieve any measurable beginning of a past-incurred debt pay down.
As any chart will show any sane person, that *is* too long to wait.
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Ashmaele
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I am of the belief that the changes need to begin now.
It takes years for the changes to make actual measurable differences.
With expenses outstripping revenues by a large (and growing) margin, we need to develop an analytical framework for readjusting the countries business model.
Prudence would dictate that we assume below-trend GDP growth and above-trend unemployment, plus rising interest rates.
Although time is growing short, I agree we do have the capacity to create positive outcomes.
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Scarne
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Ashmaele posted:
Thankfully Santorum has promised to reduce spending on food stamps but not touch a penny of defense spending. 
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Ashmaele posted:
Now let's see that exact same chart, in absolute $ terms (not per capita... not % of gdp... but apples to apples gross expenditures like yours) for "humanitarian aid budgets". And include the UN dues in that.
I just spent several minutes googling and, oddly, cannot find one.
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Sin_of_Onin
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When talking about a cap on debt there is zero doubt that the economic cycle has to be considered. If you look at the states and their experience with balanced budgets you will see that the states are forced to cut services during recessions and after the recession there is inevitably an over statement of long term revenue which results in spending that exceeds the revenue stream.
Ultimately revenue needs to be matched up to expenditures. This is true whether you understand the importance of not cutting during a recession or not. It just comes down to how this relationship can be established.
The Federal government's budget can really be carved up into different sections each with their own revenue streams and borrowing rules. It is very difficult to treat military spending the same way you treat Medicare with regards to revenue, borrowing, and spending.
OASDI is more like Medicare but is still different due to the nature of inflation in medical care and how costs differ from area to area.
I think that there is room for economic recovery borrowing and spending.
Also if we are going to talk the economic cycle I think that we need to talk about the Federal Reserve and their capacity to serve their purpose.
This conversation is anything but simple. It can be done horribly wrong and if based on false ideas like "austerity means growth" then it is a non starter.
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Moe_Nox
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Ashmaele posted:
We spend a good portion of our military budget on R&D.
China spends a good portion of their military budget hacking our R&D.
They are doing it smarter than us.
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Yukishiro1
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Now let's see that exact same chart, in absolute $ terms (not per capita... not % of gdp... but apples to apples gross expenditures like yours) for "humanitarian aid budgets". And include the UN dues in that.
I just spent several minutes googling and, oddly, cannot find one.
If you break our budget spending up over a year our humanitarian aid spending is probably half a day of the budget.
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Bobvillas
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Ashmaele posted:
Defense spending is still below the 7% share of GDP from 1948-2000.
It accounted for 20% of the budget in 2010.
The principle challenges lie elsewhere.
Since the great depression we have steadily added "business lines" and with the best of intentions created various entitlement programs.
These serve many of the nation's poorest, whose struggles have been made worse by the recent financial crisis.
Funding for these programs has been woefully inadequate, and getting worse.
Entitlement spending far outstrips funding, by more than $1 TRILLION in 2010.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
If you break our budget spending up over a year our humanitarian aid spending is probably half a day of the budget.
Which is explicitly not what I asked, nor is it apples to apples with what Ash said.
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Requiring a balanced budget is like telling a family they can never buy a house or a car or go to college.
Because debt is bad and they would be much better off living under a bridge and walking to their minimum wage job than incurring any.
Get back to a more functional tax rate and don't make huge cuts that curtail growth. And no, 2 or 3 percent higher taxes aren't going to destroy growth. It would encourage it.
The worst possible thing we could do at this time is implement austerity and try to cut our way out of our deficit situation. You grow out of deficit short falls, not cut your way to worse ones. Look at Portugal for an example of how NOT to deal with a deficit. They cut everything, made mandatory spending limits and drastically curtailed government spending....and the country is in ruins now. They are actually encouraging their citizen to leave the country as a way to "deal" with the problem now. Insanity.
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Ash's chart shows we spend about 400 billion more on military spending than anyone else.
Our humanitarian aid budget might show we spend a billion or three more than anyone else.
It is pretty obvious which area represents a possible significant savings and which doesn't.
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Ptilk posted:
Requiring a balanced budget is like telling a family they can never buy a house or a car or go to college.
That analogy is total fail. We don't "need a house", we already are a country with territory. You can still budget for growth... R&D... etc. But it is clear from our malfeasance, we HAVE to BUDGET for it. Under a cap. With teeth.
You can even have some guideline that says you can go to the market up to x% of your GDP for debt for the purpose of interest rate management on the mountain of crap we have now... as long as the cap doesn't exceed y GDP or your already outstanding debt.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Ash's chart shows we spend about 400 billion more on military spending than anyone else.
Our humanitarian aid budget might show we spend a billion or three more than anyone else.
It is pretty obvious which area represents a possible significant savings and which doesn't.
That depends on if the figure for each country includes domestic aid or not, doesn't it? (Since nobody can provide a chart, I'll just jump to that punch line).
Once you do that, re-swizzle your logic and re-compute. You'll come out with a radically different world view.
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Debt fanatics are stupid.
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
Debt fanatics are stupid.
What a buzz kill.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Ptilk posted:
Requiring a balanced budget is like telling a family they can never buy a house or a car or go to college.
That analogy is total fail. We don't "need a house", we already are a country with territory. You can still budget for growth... R&D... etc. But it is clear from our malfeasance, we HAVE to BUDGET for it. Under a cap. With teeth.
You can even have some guideline that says you can go to the market up to x% of your GDP for debt for the purpose of interest rate management on the mountain of crap we have now... as long as the cap doesn't exceed y GDP or your already outstanding debt.
For a nation things like infrastructure, buildings, and equipment (tanks, planes, boats, etc) are comparable to a house.
You have not really given any details for your idea from what I can tell so this conversation is really pointless.
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The only truth to the debt concern is that we aren't solving our core domestic labor issues. You SHOULD spend money to get out of trouble. But you should not spend money in a vain attempt to not feel bad while you spiral further and further into trouble.
The government has made many stupid moves to get us here. now they need to make it right and that will mean more debt, but so far we are getting the more debt and not making anything more right.
I'm not a debt avoider, but I am a stupid avoider. We need to try to avoid some more of that.
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When a household is drowning in credit card debt, you don't pay down the debt. You just start making more money! Magic! Those off shored jobs will be coming back any day, Johnny Homeowner, so get ta spending!
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I am not sure what 4 is out of the Outpost population, but regardless I am honored to be part of the 1%. Again.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Ptilk posted:
Requiring a balanced budget is like telling a family they can never buy a house or a car or go to college.
That analogy is total fail. We don't "need a house", we already are a country with territory. You can still budget for growth... R&D... etc. But it is clear from our malfeasance, we HAVE to BUDGET for it. Under a cap. With teeth.
You can even have some guideline that says you can go to the market up to x% of your GDP for debt for the purpose of interest rate management on the mountain of crap we have now... as long as the cap doesn't exceed y GDP or your already outstanding debt.
Just like the US already has land, most people can find a piece of cardboard to sit on, but they still spend money on a house. Even though from a short term spending perspective the cardboard looks like an obvious money saver. The analogy works even though you wish people would just make do with cardboard.
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should: borrow money to go to college, buy new suit for interviews, buy beater to get to job
should not: borrow money on credit cards to pay for luxuries while unemployed hoping things might get better and you can pay them back.
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Always left out of these rants is how national accounting works.
If you have a trade deficit, then you must have a budget deficit (either debt or a reduction in savings). This budget deficit can be in the private sector, the public sector...or both. But if you buy more than you sell you must have a deficit.
We like to whine about spendthrift politicians overspending or 1%'ers using their influence to reduce their taxes to historical lows...but these arent really the cause.
If you keep trade deficit and hike taxes, you reduce gov't debt by shifting it to the private sector. Same thing if you slash spending.
The last several years the private sector has deleveraged mightily and the trade deficit has lessened....but basic accounting requires the govt to run a bigger deficit if the private sector continues to deleverage.
So you have to decide how to tackle this. If you want to force down public debt then you are requiring a change in the trade deficit or an increase in private debt.
Ideally you help the private sector deleverage by narrowing the trade deficit with a weaker dollar and you expand the public deficit. The economy gets a bonus by shifting to public debt since the financing costs are so much lower.
Often you see people scream for less public debt, less private debt and a stronger dollar to blow up the trade deficit. 
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Sin_of_Onin
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B_Shinkicker posted:
When a household is drowning in credit card debt, you don't pay down the debt. You just start making more money! Magic! Those off shored jobs will be coming back any day, Johnny Homeowner, so get ta spending!
The US has a lot lower interest rates than your credit card. The scenario is more like the economy is shrinking so your household consumption goes down. This results in less demand for production which results in more firings which results in less household consumption. Multiple this by millions and you see how the shrinking of the household budget impacts the economy. Those who favor austerity think that we should cut consumption more which will in turn cut production more which will in turn cut consumption more.
When people point out that they are just making the economic downturn bigger they try compare the US debt to credit card debt and think they are saying something intelligent.
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GrilledCheez posted:
should: borrow money to go to college, buy new suit for interviews, buy beater to get to job
should not: borrow money on credit cards to pay for luxuries while unemployed hoping things might get better and you can pay them back.
Actually to tie this point in with the inflow of capital point made by K. Spain also had large inflows of capital which resulted in a lot of private debt. The problem was this capital flowed towards housing.
I think that it is worth addressing where the foreign capital inflows are going and what the governments are doing to guide that investment. This includes both the US government and foreign governments.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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theredkay1 posted:
Always left out of these rants is how national accounting works.
If you keep trade deficit and hike taxes, you reduce gov't debt by shifting it to the private sector. Same thing if you slash spending.
No, it always isn't. But it is obfuscated by comments like your own.
In a world of multinational corporations, the center does not hold in your argument.
theredkay1 posted:
Often you see people scream for ... a stronger dollar to blow up the trade deficit.
You do. But those with oversimplified or disingenuous arguments often try to equate a 'stable dollar' with a 'strong dollar', when in fact these two things are not necessarily the same.
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What do you think multinational corporations have to do with national accounting?
How does a basic primer on capital flows and budget deficits confuse the issue?
You do see people confuse levels (strong dollar) with flows (stable dollar). Its not clear what you are saying exactly, maybe you are the one confusing the two here.
A consistent trade deficit should force a lower currency valuation until the trade deficit is eliminated. Thats what floating currencies are supposed to do. A consistent trade deficit implies an overvalued currency. If you want to keep the dollar stable while the market indicates it should be falling, you are arguing for a strong dollar. This is true even if the dollar has been stronger at some point.
I dont think its automatically right or wrong to decide we need a stronger or weaker dollar as long as you recognize the impact. Both positions have plusses and minuses...its just frustrating to see people with strong feelings about the deficit who are prescribing currency policy that counters their preferred deficit policy. All this stuff works together, there is no magic fairy that allows us to ignore the basics of accounting.
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theredkay1 posted:
A consistent trade deficit should force a lower currency valuation until the trade deficit is eliminated. Thats what floating currencies are supposed to do.
And there's where the conversation diverges into a novel, not a board post. And again, you know that. Just like you want to gloss over the whole point about "stable" versus "strong" currency.
You casually say "floating", but what you really mean is "centrally managed and intentionally manipulated fiat for deficit or inflation intervention", not a "stable" or "neutral" currency that naturally values/de-values based on market and trade factors.
The nature of that intervention, particularly for the benchmark world currency that glues together multinational finance and arbitrage, is the topic of entire schools of economics.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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And now that we've entertained your drivel... NONE OF THAT has shite to do with the need to cap and balance the budget on a deliberate schedule under a constitutional mandate.
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Damn AA, you have been trying to get this conversation going for awhile now and you have failed hard.
It is hard to watch.
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You're under the impression this is a conversation? Look back at the OP. That's not an inquiry or solicitation of opinion.
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Yeah it has been hard to watch from the first post.
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@SoO: Yes this thread has been painful to watch. In fact I commented on that already.
Abaddon posted:
It is an interesting case study how many of you are terrified completely sh*tless about having a government that lives within a limited means. ANY limit. On any time frame.
Extremism, much?
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America will no longer be a super power in fifty years
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You have been unable to communicate anything of meaning. It is not extremism to dismiss such a pathetic argument out of hand.
You are so regularly confused about economic issues that it is no surprise that you can't bring yourself to even try and create an argument. The fact that it is over your pet issue only helps to highlight what you are all about.
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Vague and nebulous
The OP covers the issue for the intelligent 4 or so folks here. My additional replies have been my charitable contribution for the week, to help the slower denizens acknowledge the reality that exists around you.
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The original poster brings to mind John Cleese's comment about the problem with stupid people being they are too stupid to realize how stupid they are. 
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
theredkay1 posted:
A consistent trade deficit should force a lower currency valuation until the trade deficit is eliminated. Thats what floating currencies are supposed to do.
And there's where the conversation diverges into a novel, not a board post. And again, you know that. Just like you want to gloss over the whole point about "stable" versus "strong" currency.
You casually say "floating", but what you really mean is "centrally managed and intentionally manipulated fiat for deficit or inflation intervention", not a "stable" or "neutral" currency that naturally values/de-values based on market and trade factors.
The nature of that intervention, particularly for the benchmark world currency that glues together multinational finance and arbitrage, is the topic of entire schools of economics.
I appreciate the art of your posts. Regularly you choose something that you are doing and criticize whomever you are responding to for the actions you yourself are doing. Here it is glossing over the stable vs. strong currency. You brought it up cryptically, I put up some thoughts about it..and you ran away from the conversation while crying about me refusing to talk about it.
You are right about the 'floating' rate. Central banks all over the world and China in particular have been playing games with the dollar to keep it overvalued. The US cannot force these entities to cut it out and let the market work, but it can take actions to counter the impact of the actions by those other entities. If you see a currency appreciating or holding steady in spite of a large trade deficit you can be sure there is interference disrupting the market. Markets dont ever work perfectly as if powered by magic...its up to the US to make sure the dollar is going in the direction the market wants it to go. We did not do this in the '90s and it had major repurcussions in the 00's I think. Taking action today to push the dollar in the direction the market wants it to go would be greatly beneficial for the US and should not be viewed as identical to actions that push the dollar away from the direction the market wants it to go.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
The original poster brings to mind John Cleese's comment about the problem with stupid people being they are too stupid to realize how stupid they are.
But he has an MBA!
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Have I mentioned lately that all but about 4 of you...
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I'm an economic noob. All I know is that incomes today are the same as they were ten years ago, yet the price of everything has tripled. The National Debt has also tripled in the last ten years.
Most people in this thread have said that in spite of this, "everything is going to be okay". It would seem to me that things aren't okay and we're in a ticking time bomb that hasn't exploded only because the Fed and the Government has stuck their fingers in an dam that will break eventually anyway.
We've already seen people desperate to make up that income gap by foolishly investing in internet stocks and then busting, then foolishly investing in housing and then busting.
I have a hard time because back in 2006 "everyone" was saying that things will be just fine and then it wasn't. Why was "everyone" wrong a few years ago, but "everyone" is right today?
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It is no measure of health to be well adjusted
to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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theredkay1
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Subject:
Have I mentioned lately that all but about 4 of you...
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right now most people are saying everything is going to be ok? You sure about that?
I think there is widespread agreement that everything is forked up. But large disagreement o
n where to go from here.
Edit- there are a lot of things to focus on significantly more important than the federal debt right now. We need jobs, we ned to make up for a decade of lost income gains, we need to try to avoid repeating this recession, we need better access to cheaper healthcare...lots of stuff.v the deficit arglebargle is just a distraction from the things that are actually important. You can feel the impact of unemployment, or healthcare issues or The cost of college, or the lack of a raise. The impact of the debt is entirely imaginary future pains. It's not something to ignore forever, it just has no real importance right now....
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