Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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McDonnel's support for the Ultra-Sound Bill is waning
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WaPo posted:
Gov. Robert F. McDonnell is backing off his unconditional support for a bill requiring women to have an ultrasound before an abortion, focusing new attention on one of the most controversial pieces of legislation in Virginia’s General Assembly this year.
Until this weekend, McDonnell (R) and his aides had said the governor would sign the measure if it made it to his desk. McDonnell, who strongly opposes abortion, will no longer make that commitment.
Gotta love this.
Get on the doorstep of passing the bill and then backtrack when someone points out that some of these ultrasounds will actually require a vaginal probe.
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Tych2
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Perhaps he thought the vaginal probe was just to intrusive?
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-Espiritu-
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Why are pro-abortion people terrified of informed consent?
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Taliesihne
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Why are small government people so set on trying to cram government into a woman's vag?
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Taliesihne
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McDonnel's support for the Ultra-Sound Bill is waning
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Tych2 posted:
Perhaps he thought the vaginal probe was just to intrusive?
I bet that's what it is.
The funny part, to me at least, as that it took this long to figure that out.
'Wait, you mean ultrasounds in the first trimester have to be done with a probe? Someone should have told me that!'
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Tych2
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It's a dumb bill to begin with. A woman doesn't decide to get an abortion on a whim. Shes already gone through an agonizing process to make the decision. It just seemed like an extra punishment and being vindictive.
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Sin_of_Onin
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The reality of abortion in this country is far more brutal than pro choice advocates want to talk about. Women are put in a horrible spot by their family, friends, and society in general. They are often pressured heavily by others to make the decision and the idea that it is some great example of women’s liberation and empowerment is laughable.
I have no problem with the government being in the business of empowerment. The more these women are empowered the less abortions you will see. This includes empowering them to use birth control.
This is why the forced procedure is so stupid. As long as the pro life movement is about taking power from women it will fail.
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Groucho48
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He saw his (fairly slim) hopes of becoming the Republican VP nominee completely disappearing if he didn't veto this bill, but, he also sees his right wing support disappearing if he does veto it.
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__Bonk__
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Why do Republicans hate women?
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SoBaKi
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-Espiritu- posted:
Why are pro-abortion people terrified of informed consent?
Why don't you phuck off? If you don't want an abortion, don't have one.
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Moe_Nox
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Taliesihne posted:
The funny part, to me at least, as that it took this long to figure that out.
You don't expect our politicos to do their job and actually read the bill before being in a voting session, do you?
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Taliesihne
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They had to do more then read - they had to think. And probably talk to a doctor or two.
Apparently they did neither. 
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sweeny_comodore
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-Espiritu- posted:
Why are pro-abortion people terrified of informed consent?
no body is PRO abortion.
pro choice does not mean PRO abortion.
why are you religious dooshbags so thick skulled and incapable of understanding this.
NOBODY WANTS and abortion.
people that get them are usually distraught over the idea of killing a baby but can comprehend how much better off everyone is if the child is brought up in the situation it would be in.
can you imagine a 15yo girl trying to raise a child, finish highschool and hold down a job to buy diapers for the kid?
do you really think its ok to punish that baby because you feel the 15yo should be punished for doing the deed?
do you think its ok to punish society and force tax payers to support that 15yo who thought having a baby was going to be like having a puppy that you can play dress up with?
or are you assuming the parents will take on the brunt of the punishment, as they should for allowing the child to get pregnant, and support the 15yo, the baby and the boyfriend?
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Walker_ID
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sweeny_comodore posted:
pro choice does not mean PRO abortion.
truth
i am anti abortion on a moral/personal level but pro choice because i shouldn't be able to force my moral values on someone else and sometimes it just makes sense to get an abortion...and sometimes it's simply a necessity....
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Ashmaele
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"We want to punish women who get an abortion by shoving a large implement into their vagina" does not make a great campaign slogan in an election year.
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Moe_Nox
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As long as he doesn't specify the implement, he has a great chance to pick up the pimp vote.
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paulg_68
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It annoys me when pro lifers try to lump "pro choicers" in with "pro abortion" people like me. Pro choicers are wishy-washy pussies compared to us true abortion advocates.
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gatzby
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My wife and I actually got in a fight over this bill last night.
My argument is that a forced vaginal ultrasound is tatamount to state sponsored rape.
Her argument is that she is an idiotic Catholic.
Obviously we won't be changing each other's minds so I refuse to talk to her about abortion anymore.
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B_Shinkicker
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-Espiritu- posted:
Why are pro-abortion people terrified of informed consent?
I don't think these women are misinformed in the first place.
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-Espiritu-
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some are though...
Go spend a day outside an abortion clinic and tell me that every person entering understands exactly what is about to happen. How many of you pro-abortion zealots have dealt with, or are dealing with someone who has had an abortion in their past.
There are repercussions for years.
By not being champions of implied consent, you hurt your own message.
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Remnant_OBrien
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Um you've spent a day outside an abortion clinic?
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-Espiritu-
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three years in a building kitty-corner to the largest abortion clinic in southeastern Wisconsin. I see people going in every day.
It weakens your position when you argue against women understanding what they are about to do to themselves.
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Ashmaele
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-Espiritu- posted:
It weakens your position when you argue against women understanding what they are about to do to themselves.
It weakens your position when you argue that the only way a woman can have 'informed consent' is to have a transvaginal ultrasound.
I'm also not really sure how seeing people walk into and out of a building somehow gives you insight that the rest of us do not possess.
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It weakens your position to say that the only way a woman can have informed consent is to be raped by statute before they can have a medical procedure.
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__Bonk__
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Now that the economy is recovering desperate Republicans go to social issues once again
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Taliesihne
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-Espiritu- posted:
three years in a building kitty-corner to the largest abortion clinic in southeastern Wisconsin. I see people going in every day.
It weakens your position when you argue against women understanding what they are about to do to themselves.
It's also quite possible that those people who have been through that experience aren't going to share something that intensely personal with someone who is goading them.
Or someone who thinks he knows wtf he is talking about because he works next to an abortion clinic.
You pretentious dickbag.
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sweeny_comodore
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Taliesihne posted:
-Espiritu- posted:
three years in a building kitty-corner to the largest abortion clinic in southeastern Wisconsin. I see people going in every day.
It weakens your position when you argue against women understanding what they are about to do to themselves.
It's also quite possible that those people who have been through that experience aren't going to share something that intensely personal with someone who is goading them.
Or someone who thinks he knows wtf he is talking about because he works next to an abortion clinic.
You pretentious dickbag.
whats even worse than people who dont understand what gettign an abortion actually is, are the people who dont understand what it actually means to bring a life into the world and have to support it, clothe it, feed it, give it shelter, etc...
these are the people who need abortions.
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Kjarhall
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-Espiritu- posted:
three years in a building kitty-corner to the largest abortion clinic in southeastern Wisconsin. I see people going in every day.
I didn't know you could tell what someone was thinking just by looking at them. That's a super power bro! Just march up to DC and tell them what every single woman you saw was thinking. I'm sure they'll overturn Roe v Wade based on that.
You could call yourself The Uterus Whisperer!
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-Espiritu-
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Ashmaele posted:
-Espiritu- posted:
It weakens your position when you argue against women understanding what they are about to do to themselves.
It weakens your position when you argue that the only way a woman can have 'informed consent' is to have a transvaginal ultrasound.
I'm also not really sure how seeing people walk into and out of a building somehow gives you insight that the rest of us do not possess.
gatzby posted:
It weakens your position to say that the only way a woman can have informed consent is to be raped by statute before they can have a medical procedure.
Clearly you've never been in attendance during a transvaginal ultrasound. You'd have to be completely ignorant to the abortion process itself to think that the ultrasound is somehow more traumatizing physically than the abortion. Mentally? Sure, because you have to deal with the fact you are stopping the spark.
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-Espiritu-
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Taliesihne posted:
-Espiritu- posted:
three years in a building kitty-corner to the largest abortion clinic in southeastern Wisconsin. I see people going in every day.
It weakens your position when you argue against women understanding what they are about to do to themselves.
It's also quite possible that those people who have been through that experience aren't going to share something that intensely personal with someone who is goading them.
Or someone who thinks he knows wtf he is talking about because he works next to an abortion clinic.
You pretentious dickbag.
Some of them are going through an intensely personal experience.
Others are just going in for their routine oops correction.
The fact is, even if the number of people who change their mind after hearing a heartbeat or seeing that little spark on the ultrasound is tiny... the field of medicine has always err'd on the side of informed consent. If one person decides to not have an abortion because of the emotional response they have to seeing the life they are terminating, then it would fly in the face of all medical ethics to prevent them from having that information.
It does not make me any less pro-choice from a legislative standpoint to support a more thorough process for informing pregnant women about what having an abortion actually means. Your smug indignation is just proof you've slipped down the slope which the pro-life movement warned about thirty years ago. All of a sudden it isn't enough that abortions are readily available, they have to be on-demand and conscious free.
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gatzby
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Except for the fact I was in attendance for my wife's ultrasounds, and saw my baby forming inside her, then yes I have no idea what an ultrasound is like.
I also know that forcing an ultrasound is not based on "informed consent". It is purely a ploy to get the woman to grow attached to the thing growing inside of her and to attempt her to stop from having the abortion.
If it was about informed consent, a brochure or a mandatory lecture could be given instead.
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Groucho48
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So, a married woman with 4 kids who decides she can't manage another needs an ultrasound to be informed of what exactly?
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Tych2
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-Espiritu- posted:
It does not make me any less pro-choice from a legislative standpoint to support a more thorough process for informing pregnant women about what having an abortion actually means.
This is not about you. It's about putting them in undue duress for no reason except to penalize them.
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Yukishiro1
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Informed consent doesn't require sticking something up the woman's vagina to show her what the fetus looks like.
On that logic, you may as well force all people getting operations to watch an operation being performed and see someone else being cut open so they really understand how they are going to be cut open. Because some people might see someone else getting cut open and be like "wtf no way! I'm not doing that!" and then die because they didn't have the operation and that would be awesome because it would be more informed consent!
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SoBaKi
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-Espiritu- posted:
some are though...
Go spend a day outside an abortion clinic and tell me that every person entering understands exactly what is about to happen. How many of you pro-abortion zealots have dealt with, or are dealing with someone who has had an abortion in their past.
There are repercussions for years.
By not being champions of implied consent, you hurt your own message.
Perhaps you should not have gotten that 12 year old pregnant? You experiencing a little remorse? huh?
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__Bonk__ posted:
Well, yes, obviously abortion doesn't affect your "kind."
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Sgian_Dubh
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McDonnel's support for the Ultra-Sound Bill is waning
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
The reality of abortion in this country is far more brutal than pro choice advocates want to talk about. Women are put in a horrible spot by their family, friends, and society in general. They are often pressured heavily by others to make the decision and the idea that it is some great example of women’s liberation and empowerment is laughable.
I have no problem with the government being in the business of empowerment. The more these women are empowered the less abortions you will see. This includes empowering them to use birth control.
This is why the forced procedure is so stupid. As long as the pro life movement is about taking power from women it will fail.
You're an idiot.
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Mastara
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Apparently she doesnt have a problem cramming things in her vag in the first place or she wouldnt need an abortion. Or she was too stupid to use or make him use a contraceptive. Either way. It should never have to come down to an abortion.
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Tych2
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 You are such a misogynist.
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SirGarth
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Subject:
McDonnel's support for the Ultra-Sound Bill is waning
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Taliesihne posted:
Tych2 posted:
Perhaps he thought the vaginal probe was just to intrusive?
I bet that's what it is.
The funny part, to me at least, as that it took this long to figure that out.
'Wait, you mean ultrasounds in the first trimester have to be done with a probe? Someone should have told me that!'
nope. the only reason he (and the Virginia GOP), is that they have been getting hammered on this in the national and state media, making Virginia a laughing stock and as someone else pointed out seriously hurting McDonnell's VP prospects.
the opposition to this bill by Virginia democrats has been shockingly effective and on message - if they had that much discipline during the election they might not have lost both the House and the Senate and prevented this preview of what the modern GOP social agenda looks like. the democratic party of virginia leadership is still a joke, but the opposition to this bill was loud and consistent from the moment it was introduced, and generated enough exposure to get the bill killed.
in other news, the personhood bill was also killed today, or at least delayed for another year.
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Taliesihne
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I wasn't particularly motivated to vote until this.
I hope the jackass republicans get crushed in the fall. No way in HELL I'm allowing Allen back in the Senate.
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Mastara
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I knew you were gonna post tick lol I was waiting. What took you so long?
What I find funny is that its misogynistic to you to say a woman should use contraceptives or make the man do it before she spread her legs or bent over, whatever the case may be. Would you tell your daughter to use contraceptives? After all, "good" girls like bad guys. Would you be a misogynist to say use protection of one kind or another?
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Tych2
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Boy you really went out on a limb there! I bet jebus told ya huh?
Why wouldn't I post? I see a misogynist and I need to point and laugh.
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Taliesihne
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You were here first - long before Mascara slinked in.
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Mastara
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Who cares. I'm here now. Like it or not. You can cry me a river, build a bridge and get the ef over it now.
Moving on.
Ahhh talie defending tick. Aww how sweet
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Taliesihne
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Mastara posted:
Who cares. I'm here now. Like it or not. You can cry me a river, build a bridge and get the ef over it now.
Moving on.
Or...and I'm just riffing here...
we could mock you.
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Mastara
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Your always welcome to. No biggy.
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Mastara
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like I always say I have 6 brothers and 1 sister. Your choir boys compared to them lol
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Groucho48
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Mastara posted:
Apparently she doesnt have a problem cramming things in her vag in the first place or she wouldnt need an abortion. Or she was too stupid to use or make him use a contraceptive. Either way. It should never have to come down to an abortion.
Spoken like a true Republican!
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Taliesihne
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Your family must be like that family from the the aristocrats then.
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Mastara
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No clue what your talking about. Perhaps I'm too young. /shrug
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Tych2
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This keeps getting better and better. I hope Mastboro never stops posting. I mean at least between protesting funerals.
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Mastara
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Only until class is done. Then I'm done for the night. Like 40 mins.
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Taliesihne
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Taliesihne posted:
Your family must be like that family from the the aristocrats then.
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Mastara
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As I said, I have no clue what your talking about, I must be too young. /shrug
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Mastara
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Didnt listen to it yet. I'll ,listen to it later. The guy is funny though.
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Ashmaele
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BubbleDude
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McDonnel's support for the Ultra-Sound Bill is waning
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"You're". It's "you're".
Idiot.
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