Altra_Shadowstalker
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Trickle Down Economy works, for who?
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Can someone explain this theory to me? You give tax breaks, less regulations, subsidies to businesses or job creators (the wealthy) and this encourages growth across the board, and everyone involved has a better standard of living, and a greater income? Oh, and you lower barriers for the non-wealthy to reach wealthy status. If it works "Americans" prosper.
Is that about right?
This isn't a gotcha thread, my line of thinking then is to followup on those who support this (i expect to be corrected), with questions:
Who do you include/exclude when talking about Americans or prospering. Citizens? Workers? Those who play the game? Anyone who wants to work?
Why has the wealth gap increased in this country since we've shifted to a trickle down model? Does the wealth gap matter in a trickle down philosophy? Or is everything ok if everyone prospers a little and a select few prospers a lot? (rich get richer and poor can still afford big screen TVs so its ok)
Finally, what happens when the wealthy or job creators refuse to invest in the American economy? For whatever reason, if job growth is stifled, is the solution always going to be to deregulate and reduce taxes? If we accede to the wishes of Big Business and they refuse to play ball, is this an indication of a failure or breakdown in TDE?
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Tych2
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It doesn't work.
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Scarne
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One of the failures of it is that giving more money to the rich doesn't guarantee that they will spend it in the USA. 
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Yukishiro1
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The basic theory is right, it's just a stupid theory.
Some of the money you give to rich people does make it down to non-rich people. But that doesn't make it smart economic strategy.
It's sorta like saying we should get water to thirsty people by flying over them with a sprinkler. Yes, some of the water would get to them. But that doesn't mean it's the best way to get water to them.
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paulg_68
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You think trickle down economics involves giving money to rich people?
You should probably check out wikipedia before you embarrass yourself further.
Personally I don't believe in targeted tax breaks. Ironically most opponents of trickle down economics say they don't either. Then they will immediately argue for tax breaks targeted at themselves or other groups that they favor such as the working class.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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Yukishiro1
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Oh hey, Paul with a stupid semantic post. How unusual.
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Koneg
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Trickle Down Economy works, for who?
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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
Can someone explain this theory to me?
Sure.
First - it's not a theory. It's just the way things work. Changes at one end of an economic spectrum always have consequences on the other end.
Tych2 posted:
It doesn't work.
I will explain the theory by easily proving Tych wrong. With little annoying things like... Facts... and Ted Kennedy of all people.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=sqgyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=n-cFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5101%2C3073078
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Tych2
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 Okay.
You do realize no one takes you serious right?
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Yukishiro1
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That doesn't prove Tych wrong unless you're retarded...oh wait.
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Seething199
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it's one of the great frauds of the last 30 years. and people that still buy into it are hopelessly stupid.
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Koneg
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Tych2 posted:
Okay.
You do realize no one takes you serious right?
Well, it's obvious you didn't click the link.
Ignorance... is it fun for you? Or do you just prefer it?
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Koneg
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Yukishiro1 posted:
That doesn't prove Tych wrong unless you're retarded...oh wait.
Can you find anything wrong with his analysis? I mean, you spent all of a minute reading it so you must be an expert by now, right? 
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Tych2
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I don't click on links. You said you would explain it to me. Then you posed a link. I will stick by my statement you quoted.
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Koneg
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Tych2 posted:
Ignorance is fun for me and I prefer it.
Cool story bro.
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Yukishiro1
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What analysis? Kennedy is for tax breaks for buying yachts so therefore trickle down works?
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Tych2
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Koneg posted:
I make fake quotes when people make fun of me
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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I find quoting excerpts and sourcing the quotes a much more effective way to continue a discussion. It's usually how people act in person, except the internet allows you the opportunity to research and source your opinions instead of saying "some guy [vague paraphrase]."
I started the thread in an attempt to have a discussion, not a suggested reading club.
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Kjarhall
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Koneg posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
That doesn't prove Tych wrong unless you're retarded...oh wait.
Can you find anything wrong with his analysis? I mean, you spent all of a minute reading it so you must be an expert by now, right?
The analysis didn't really prove anything substantial, except that some people got $2 million. It didn't say what the trickle down result was. The problem with the theory is that that part isn't very quantifiable. Technically, money trickled down. How much reached the people at the 'end' of the trickle? One extra paycheck? More? Less? Much more? Perhaps their very jobs? Or nothing?
So you have some people who got 2 mil for pretty much nothing, and a bunch of people who had to work damn hard for probably a fraction of a percent of that.
It's funny, all you really have to do is look at the definition of trickle to understand why it's inequitable.
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Allstarslacker
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You have to strike a balance between maintaining the incentive to achieve, and the needs of all the people who make that achievement possible.
Too much in either direction is bad.
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IMHO
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Koneg posted:
First - it's not a theory.
Koneg posted:
I will explain the theory by easily proving....
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sweeny_comodore
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Koneg posted:
Tych2 posted:
Ignorance is fun for me and I prefer it.
Cool story bro.
what country do you live in?
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paulg_68
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Seething199 posted:
it's one of the great frauds of the last 30 years. and people that still buy into it are hopelessly stupid.
Let me guess, you recognize that targeted tax breaks are bad for every group other than the ones you want to get targeted tax breaks?
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Sansfear
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Take a look at the Intel plants here in Chandler (Phoenix suburb).
They were given enormous tax breaks when they moved here and as they continue to expand.
The end result has been thousands of high-paying tech jobs and construction (currently they are doing a multi-billion-dollar expansion that is the 2nd largest construction site in the world) and has the resulted in the influx of hundreds of related business that were started to support the Intel plants.
It has also resulted in the starting of hundreds of non-related businesses to support the influx of the thousands of workers at the plants.
The city initially gave up millions in tax revenue from Intel itself, but has gained far more than that in revenue from all the ancillary businesses and from the workers spending in their local community.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
Can someone explain this theory to me? You give tax breaks, less regulations, subsidies to businesses or job creators (the wealthy) and this encourages growth across the board, and everyone involved has a better standard of living, and a greater income? Oh, and you lower barriers for the non-wealthy to reach wealthy status. If it works "Americans" prosper.
Is that about right?
This isn't a gotcha thread, my line of thinking then is to followup on those who support this (i expect to be corrected), with questions:
Who do you include/exclude when talking about Americans or prospering. Citizens? Workers? Those who play the game? Anyone who wants to work?
Why has the wealth gap increased in this country since we've shifted to a trickle down model? Does the wealth gap matter in a trickle down philosophy? Or is everything ok if everyone prospers a little and a select few prospers a lot? (rich get richer and poor can still afford big screen TVs so its ok)
Finally, what happens when the wealthy or job creators refuse to invest in the American economy? For whatever reason, if job growth is stifled, is the solution always going to be to deregulate and reduce taxes? If we accede to the wishes of Big Business and they refuse to play ball, is this an indication of a failure or breakdown in TDE?
Your point is moot because no one wants that. Low fair taxes is a far cry from "give tax breaks". Under a conservative tax plan no one would get "tax breaks". "Regulations" cost everyone money and jobs. Some are just insane. We need fair and understandable "Regulations". "Subsidies to businesses or job creators (the wealthy)" is Obama plan, not conservatives. We don't even think government should have to power to give someone's else money away.
Liberals either don't understand what conservatives want or know that they have to lie to keep their failed policies. Likely equal parts ignorant, stupid and evil.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Sansfear posted:
Take a look at the Intel plants here in Chandler (Phoenix suburb).
They were given enormous tax breaks when they moved here and as they continue to expand.
The end result has been thousands of high-paying tech jobs and construction (currently they are doing a multi-billion-dollar expansion that is the 2nd largest construction site in the world) and has the resulted in the influx of hundreds of related business that were started to support the Intel plants.
It has also resulted in the starting of hundreds of non-related businesses to support the influx of the thousands of workers at the plants.
The city initially gave up millions in tax revenue from Intel itself, but has gained far more than that in revenue from all the ancillary businesses and from the workers spending in their local community.
Subsidizing is not that different than tariffs. IT is a way for government to protect and foster corporations. That is more corporate welfare than trickle down economics.
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GrilledCheez
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the premise behind the theory is true. Rich people are the job creators. What is not true is that giving them money will automatically make them create jobs.
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PackHunter
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Sansfear posted:
Take a look at the Intel plants here in Chandler (Phoenix suburb)...
Wait, giving someone money makes them do something?
THIS IS A SHOCKING ECONOMIC REVELATION!
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Fist_de_Yuma
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GrilledCheez posted:
the premise behind the theory is true. Rich people are the job creators. What is not true is that giving them money will automatically make them create jobs.
So letting people keep what they earned is "giving them money". Not that I believe in special tax laws to favor one or punish another but at least use terms that are true.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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You're assuming a lot in this thread, Fist. Quit being such a liberal. I didn't have a point, considering almost every sentence was a question. But thanks for liberaling my thread up. 
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poetkiosk
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Oh hey, Paul with a stupid semantic post. How unusual.
He was semi interesting like 5 years ago. Now....man its just so tiresome.
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__Bonk__
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YUKI HATES PAUL!
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paulg_68
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These days poet only stops by to continue melting down about me.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
You're assuming a lot in this thread, Fist. Quit being such a liberal. I didn't have a point, considering almost every sentence was a question. But thanks for liberaling my thread up.
Show me where I'm wrong. Count only money given without something in return. If the "rich" get more I'll admit I'm wrong.
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sweeny_comodore
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
You're assuming a lot in this thread, Fist. Quit being such a liberal. I didn't have a point, considering almost every sentence was a question. But thanks for liberaling my thread up.
Show me where I'm wrong. Count only money given without something in return. If the "rich" get more I'll admit I'm wrong.
bill gates made how much this year?
what did he give in return for that money?
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paulg_68
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sweeny_comodore posted:
bill gates made how much this year?
what did he give in return for that money?
I'm using his software right now.
So are you.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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poetkiosk
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paulg_68 posted:
These days poet only stops by to continue melting down about me.
or you are just that insufferable
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sweeny_comodore
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paulg_68 posted:
sweeny_comodore posted:
bill gates made how much this year?
what did he give in return for that money?
I'm using his software right now.
So are you.
and im sure he personally crafted every disk and wrote every line of code
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Brother_Tempus
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Subject:
Trickle Down Economy works, for who?
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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
Can someone explain this theory to me?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936
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You win ACF, dude - Osmenthe
BT is usually right - Onslaught
i think we need more BT on page 1 - FighterUSAF
Yep, BT is right - Aerlinthian
Got guns & ammo? Food? Precious metals?
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theredkay1
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Subject:
Trickle Down Economy works, for who?
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Sansfear posted:
Take a look at the Intel plants here in Chandler (Phoenix suburb).
They were given enormous tax breaks when they moved here and as they continue to expand.
The end result has been thousands of high-paying tech jobs and construction (currently they are doing a multi-billion-dollar expansion that is the 2nd largest construction site in the world) and has the resulted in the influx of hundreds of related business that were started to support the Intel plants.
It has also resulted in the starting of hundreds of non-related businesses to support the influx of the thousands of workers at the plants.
The city initially gave up millions in tax revenue from Intel itself, but has gained far more than that in revenue from all the ancillary businesses and from the workers spending in their local community.
Did this tax break create businesses that would have otherwise not existed? You are implying so...but there are two other options:
This just shifted the jobs from one location to another.
Or these businesses would have been created anyway in this location even without the handout to Intel.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Subject:
Trickle Down Economy works, for who?
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sweeny_comodore posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
You're assuming a lot in this thread, Fist. Quit being such a liberal. I didn't have a point, considering almost every sentence was a question. But thanks for liberaling my thread up.
Show me where I'm wrong. Count only money given without something in return. If the "rich" get more I'll admit I'm wrong.
bill gates made how much this year?
what did he give in return for that money?
Bill Gates earned a lot of money. Bill Gates paid a lot of tax on that money. Much of the rest he gave a way. What is your point? The Government did not give him a dime. He gave the government millions.
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There are three kind of liberals;
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The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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Kjarhall
Title: The Pungent One
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Subject:
Trickle Down Economy works, for who?
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
sweeny_comodore posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
[quote=Altra_Shadowstalker]You're assuming a lot in this thread, Fist. Quit being such a liberal. I didn't have a point, considering almost every sentence was a question. But thanks for liberaling my thread up.
Show me where I'm wrong. Count only money given without something in return. If the "rich" get more I'll admit I'm wrong.
bill gates made how much this year?
what did he give in return for that money?
Bill Gates earned a lot of money. Bill Gates paid a lot of tax on that money. Much of the rest he gave a way. What is your point? The Government did not give him a dime. He gave the government millions. [/quote]
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You're a crazy moron*
*http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/115147923/r115151508/
hah! true story tho i'm a woman an i even love boobs..how can you not??- HallowEve
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Subject:
Trickle Down Economy works, for who?
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So being unable to reply with logic and facts you go with a cartoon. Liberals are so helpless.
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There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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