Allstarslacker
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Subject:
Solitude is control
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Every person you allow into your life requires you to relinquish some amount of control.
If you'll give yourself to anyone you have no control, but you'll never be alone.
If you won't give yourself to anyone you have complete control, but you'll always be alone.
How do you find your balance?
How many people do you want to care about?
How many do you want to care about you?
Are you being too selfish or too generous?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmIoZwkqx0Q
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Solitude is control
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This is only true between equals.
Think about it.
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Allstarslacker
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Solitude is control
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Not really.
Even if you can completely dominate someone's decisions you're still going to have to deal with their short comings and other unexpected circumstance you wouldn't otherwise have to bother with.
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Ptilk
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Solitude is control
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I don't give them control, I give them access. Totally different.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Subject:
Solitude is control
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Allstarslacker posted:
Not really.
Even if you can completely dominate someone's decisions you're still going to have to deal with their short comings and other unexpected circumstance you wouldn't otherwise have to bother with.
Nope. If you and a small core of associates have total tyrannical control over an other or group of others, you don't need to worry about that. Your life is only as complicated as the 3 or 4 close confidants you have who allow your tyranny.
You still have control... because you can lock up everyone else, or simply pull a trigger, or whatever else is needed.
There are some "sick" relationships and places in the world.
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Allstarslacker
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Subject:
Solitude is control
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That access comes at a cost that you don't get to set though. You either pay it and have them, or you don't.
Nothing is free.
Edit for AA: You will never have complete control of another person or group of people, and you will not be able to account for every circumstance you're interaction with them could cause.
Pride goes before the fall.
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eodoll
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Solitude is control
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If you're rich enough like Michael Jackson then you can be surrounded by yes people.
Same goes if you're respected and powerful enough like Saddam Hussein.
Otherwise you can lose control but somethings are easy to give up because you'd do them anyway.
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Allstarslacker
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Subject:
Solitude is control
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Both of those men were fearful recluses who died pathetic deaths because they couldn't manage the worlds they had created.
I would not say they were in control.
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Crackdoc
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Solitude is control
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As has been stated often - 'No Man is an Island'.
The crux of maintaning individual cobntrol while also mnavigating the wonderful world of relationships is to realize that there are just so many people that you can actually have effective contact with and then the rest are background noise.
I chose family that I like and a few people outside of family.
I concentrate whatever 'Emo' I have on those few (and they are 'FEW') and after that I look to just loving lovable ME-Me-Me!
Woeksa for my world anyway.
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eodoll
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Subject:
Solitude is control
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Allstarslacker posted:
Both of those men were fearful recluses who died pathetic deaths because they couldn't manage the worlds they had created.
I would not say they were in control.
Then nobody is in control - you're either a recluse and have nobody trying to control you or you're letting people boss you.
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Allstarslacker
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Solitude is control
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That's the premise of the thread.
Congratulations.
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Moe_Nox
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Solitude is control
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Drugs are bad, m'kay.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Solitude is control
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If you give then it is freely. You don't abdicate control over anything. You always have the choice to walk away, sure you'll probably lose them as a friend if you do this too often or on something important, but there's nothing forcing you.
You and i have a relationship. It involves posting on a message board. There's nothing saying i have to respond to your post, even if you say, "Altra, i need your input!" I have many choices that i willingly engage in from turning on the computer, to getting on the outpost, reading a thread, down to clicking the Submit button.
The relationship actually builds on this, not the other way around. I might, after a time, see an Allstar thread and click the thread because you've created interesting topics before. You might like my responses and respond to one of my threads...but you don't have to.
Real life mirrors this. I'd argue you should never have obligations between friends. If one is in need, you help them out because you want to see them well, not because of any obligations, guilt, or supposed control they have over you.
*any gay undertones in this post are entirely unintentional but completely endorsed by this poster. 
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Taliesihne
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Subject:
Solitude is control
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Control is an illusion.
Let go and enjoy the ride imo.
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Allstarslacker
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Subject:
Solitude is control
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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
If you give then it is freely. You don't abdicate control over anything. You always have the choice to walk away, sure you'll probably lose them as a friend if you do this too often or on something important, but there's nothing forcing you.
You and i have a relationship. It involves posting on a message board. There's nothing saying i have to respond to your post, even if you say, "Altra, i need your input!" I have many choices that i willingly engage in from turning on the computer, to getting on the outpost, reading a thread, down to clicking the Submit button.
The relationship actually builds on this, not the other way around. I might, after a time, see an Allstar thread and click the thread because you've created interesting topics before. You might like my responses and respond to one of my threads...but you don't have to.
Real life mirrors this. I'd argue you should never have obligations between friends. If one is in need, you help them out because you want to see them well, not because of any obligations, guilt, or supposed control they have over you.
*any gay undertones in this post are entirely unintentional but completely endorsed by this poster.
No one makes a thread to be ignored, but I can't compel you to respond beyond offering you the opportunity to do so.
If I want to be heard I have to risk being ignored because it is beyond my control.
Or I can choose to be silent and be in control.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Subject:
Solitude is control
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You haven't given up control by posting. You never had control over others to begin with.
You actual gain (theoretical or potential or real) control by posting. If your choices are to not post and not be heard or to post and 1) be heard 2) not be heard, then by posting you altered your potential possibilities. As the recipient of the message, i have choices, again my first choice is whether to hear it or not.
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Allstarslacker
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Solitude is control
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I agree that I never had control of others to begin with.
That is why the only thing I can control is whether or not I will try to interact with them.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Solitude is control
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Ok, but I'm arguing that you don't lose control upon interaction.
Maybe another example will help.
There's a computer. Let's pretend its self aware. It has control of whether it will connect with others (via internet) or remain in solitude (offline). If it remains in solitude, it gains nothing, it losses nothing. It made a choice and maintained its power over itself.
Let's say it chooses to connect. It sends out a burst of packets and then willingly accepts packets back. It's communicating now, but at any moment it can choose to refuse the packets or go offline. It continues to interact. Now, the computer can decide it wants to make a phone call. It doesn't have a program to do that, so it has to download one. Does it maintain control over itself when it allows another program to load? Considering, the computer made the action, it allowed the program access, maintains the power to remove it at any point, and wants to use the program, I'd say it gave up nothing.
Unless your argument is that you give up control of the choices you didn't choose every time you make a choice, which is a pretty stupid and self-defeating argument.
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Allstarslacker
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Solitude is control
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You choose to interact or not to interact, and you can choose to stop interacting or start, but while you are interacting you are not in control.
You can choose what you offer them, but you can not choose what they offer you.
You will interact or you won't, but you will not be able to dictate the circumstances of that interaction.
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eodoll
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Solitude is control
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Allstarslacker posted:
That's the premise of the thread.
Congratulations.
For what? You set the rules that only allowed your conclusion.
I think hussein and jackson had the control that they desired/pursued.
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Allstarslacker
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Solitude is control
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For being right of course.
Also, I can't say for certain they didn't, but I find it unlikely they desired the life they experienced. I can't imagine things turned out they way they intended.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Solitude is control
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Allstarslacker posted:
You choose to interact or not to interact, and you can choose to stop interacting or start, but while you are interacting you are not in control.
You can choose what you offer them, but you can not choose what they offer you.
You will interact or you won't, but you will not be able to dictate the circumstances of that interaction.
This is true whether you are interacting with someone or in solitude. I fail to see how Solitude is control because you are literally saying you control nothing.
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Allstarslacker
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Solitude is control
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Because it is by choice.
Also, solitude is not nothingness.
Control for the context of this thread is being the only input into your designs. Not omnipotence.
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IMHO
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Solitude is control
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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Solitude is control
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You have control over yourself.
You don't have control over others.
These are constants, if you're in solitude or not.
You lose nothing because you never had that control in the first place.
Can you bring a specific example of how interactions cause a loss of control. Exactly where does that control exist that is lost? Input sensors? Information processed in your brain? Not being able to politely kick your neighbor out?
I expect my answer to remain the same no matter what: You either have control or you don't, the act of interacting doesn't lose you anything.
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Allstarslacker
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Solitude is control
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It's not about gaining or losing.
You most definitely stand to gain more by interacting than by not. That is what makes the risk worth while.
Your world is bigger once you bring someone else into it, so the amount of control you have over your existence is diminished to the extent that person is able to change your world in ways you do or don't want.
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Z-Elder
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Solitude is control
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What is solitude?
You focus on control only matters when others are involved and not with your environment?
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Allstarslacker
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Solitude is control
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My ability to control my environment rests solely on my ability to understand and manipulate it.
I do not need it's approval to get what I want from it. Just the mastery necessary to accomplish what I set out to do.
People are complicated, and much harder to manipulate because I have to inspire the necessary feelings within them to get what I want from them.
I can not force them to do what I want.
To me solitude is a lack of peers.
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smellymotor
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Solitude is control
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I am what I am because of who we all are
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Halloweve
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Solitude is control
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If you can't enjoy and appreciate just your own company, you will never fully enjoy the company of others.
If someone needs to be glued to your side to feel loved, they are greatly lacking.
I have never been hurt if the one I love wants some alone time, I get it. They need to be able to return the favor. I dig my alone time.
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