AzureTyger
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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After all, isn't our current tax code mostly a polyglot of regulatory attempts to fix loopholes in what were originally simple laws? Simplifying it, without getting it pretty close to airtight - a nearly impossible proposition when you consider who would work on the tax code vs the legions of wealthy legal representatives who will work against it later - seems like an invitation to a ton of abuse to me.
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Aerlinthian
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Everybody and their mother knows that the entire system needs to be nuked from orbit and rebuilt.
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Grymlo
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Flat tax or fair tax eliminates these loopholes you speak of.
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Sin_of_Onin
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Grymlo posted:
Flat tax or fair tax eliminates these loopholes you speak of.
It has its own problems.
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Grymlo
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Grymlo posted:
Flat tax or fair tax eliminates these loopholes you speak of.
It has its own problems.
It does but not anywhere near the amount of problems our current plan has.
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Scarne
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Grymlo posted:
It does but not anywhere near the amount of problems our current plan has.
How can you say that about a plan that is purely theoretical? Because obviously political ideas always work as well in practice as they do in theory. 
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Clackdor
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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All tax plans will suck. A rebuilt tax plan will be subject to lobbying for any number of loopholes that politicians will have little interest in resisting.
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Grymlo
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Scarne posted:
Grymlo posted:
It does but not anywhere near the amount of problems our current plan has.
How can you say that about a plan that is purely theoretical? Because obviously political ideas always work as well in practice as they do in theory.
Really? We are talking about a flat tax here. Not some pos tax system like our current one.
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Ptilk
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Flat tax would suck, and it would still be liable to manipulation from special interests and well connected people. Before the ink dried on the paper it would have new loopholes and exemptions added to it and be just as screwed up as our current tax system in no time.
Not to mention it would have to be around 38% to fund the current budget...which would suck for everyone.
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Modeeb
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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There are over a hundred years of some quality jurisprudence in the tax code. But , there are a bewildering amount of tax laws designed to social engineer, many to retain the status quo, and some obvious loop holes -exploits paid for by those in power owning the politicians making the laws. I have made arguments many times against the weaknesses of a flat tax. I think every tax professional on this board knows those arguments (e.g. the tax rate is one of the easiest part of applying the law, arriving at taxable income is where the common law has made many advances). I can make them again and again-but why?
It was close to insane eliminating the estate tax altogether. Btw, flat tax heads, what will you do about state taxes? Most of those who want the flat tax, dont understand the tax law.
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Grymlo
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Modeeb posted:
There are over a hundred years of some quality jurisprudence in the tax code. But , there are a bewildering amount of tax laws designed to social engineer, many to retain the status quo, and some obvious loop holes -exploits paid for by those in power owning the politicians making the laws. I have made arguments many times against the weaknesses of a flat tax. I think every tax professional on this board knows those arguments (e.g. the tax rate is one of the easiest part of applying the law, arriving at taxable income is where the common law has made many advances). I can make them again and again-but why?
It was close to insane eliminating the estate tax altogether. Btw, flat tax heads, what will you do about state taxes? Most of those who want the flat tax, dont understand the tax law.
State is state, fed is fed. What are you trying to get at?
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Sin_of_Onin
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Grymlo posted:
It does but not anywhere near the amount of problems our current plan has.
It has less problems but they are generally bigger problems.
Depending on the flat tax plan the problems can actually be really bad for small business. The economic incentives created by a flat tax are just as impactful and harmful than our current system. The major benefit of making tax prep easier is really the only thing a flat tax has. Economic incentives, progressivity, winners and losers, etc are very hit and miss.
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theredkay1
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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The phrase 'simplify the tax code' means a hundred different things depending on who is selling it.......but right after the legislation passes, every group in the country will be back to work trying to get preferential tax treatment plugged into the new simpler tax code. It seems a never ending game.....
Flat tax obviously doesnt simplify anything. There is nothing complicated about paying higher rates as your income goes up. If you can muck up the current system with endless loopholes and confusion, you can do the exact same thing to a flat rate.
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GrilledCheez
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Effective at what? It would do some things. Most of them not as good as they used to be.
the fairtax is awesome in the same way monster truck rallies are awesome. They let you know who to ignore right off the bat.
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NuEM
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Aerlinthian posted:
Everybody and their mother knows that the entire system needs to be nuked from orbit and rebuilt.
I'm very skeptical of things "everybody and their mother" know, as it turns out everybody and their mother are often full of sh!t.
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Yukishiro1
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Simplifying the tax code would produce some short-term benefits but within years you'd have something close to the old code as various interest groups got their hands on it and got most of the old complications put back in.
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Cawlin
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Presently the tax code provides legions of accountants with a living, legions of government employees a living, and untold terabytes of digital bitching flying through the ether which keeps legions of information services going...
simplifying it has far reaching implications people! THINK! 
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Sin_of_Onin
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Cawlin posted:
Presently the tax code provides legions of accountants with a living, legions of government employees a living, and untold terabytes of digital bitching flying through the ether which keeps legions of information services going...
simplifying it has far reaching implications people! THINK!
Actually making it so most households can file a very simple form would be a good goal. Standard deductions exist for a reason.
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Moe_Nox
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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The larger the regulation the more places loopholes have to hide, typically.
A simplified tax code that doesn't punish families for marriage or kids, and doesn't punish business for reinvestment and creating domestic jobs, is preferred.
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Yukishiro1
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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The tax code doesn't punish anyone for having kids and never would. Although what you really mean may be "the tax code should reward you for having kids," which it does currently and which would obviously be an area of major contention in a simplified tax code. Just like the mortgage deduction is.
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Moe_Nox
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Back before we did welfare reform in the 90's having kids and being married diminished some of the eligibility for benefits.
My point was any revamped tax code needs to steer clear of repeating mistakes of the past from other areas.
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Tych2
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Keeping the tax code complicated keeps me in business... at least until the end of this year. After this year I am good with making it simpler. 
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Yukishiro1
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Moe_Nox posted:
Back before we did welfare reform in the 90's having kids and being married diminished some of the eligibility for benefits.
Oh, you mean being married with kids vs being unmarried with kids?
I'm not sure how much it has to do with the tax code per se - seems more like welfare policy - but that's still an issue as far as I know. People still pretend not to be living with their babby daddy because it lets them get more benefits. Maybe they took the marriage bit out of it and just made it about cohabitation.
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Cawlin
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Cawlin posted:
Presently the tax code provides legions of accountants with a living, legions of government employees a living, and untold terabytes of digital bitching flying through the ether which keeps legions of information services going...
simplifying it has far reaching implications people! THINK!
Actually making it so most households can file a very simple form would be a good goal. Standard deductions exist for a reason.
/facepalm
My post was sarcasm dude... ffs.
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Sin_of_Onin
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Cawlin posted:
/facepalm
My post was sarcasm dude... ffs.
I am pretty sure we are in agreement.
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DemonicXH
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Tych2 posted:
Keeping the tax code complicated keeps me in business... at least until the end of this year. After this year I am good with making it simpler.
Have a plan for after?
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Tych2
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Not really. I was going to take some time off then either look to buy another business or go work for someone. I do like working for myself though
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Scarne
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I am not convinced how effective 'simplifying the tax code' would really be
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Most of the flat tax plans out there don't count capital gains as income.
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