Bonzoboy1
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I don't see the problem but the Humane Society does
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http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_19992359
One of California's top wildlife officials found himself in the political line of fire Friday, after a photo surfaced showing him holding a dead mountain lion he killed in what appeared to be a recent big game hunt.
Daniel W. Richards, president of the California Fish and Game Commission, shot the lion in Northern Idaho. The photo was posted on the website of Western Outdoor News, a hunting and fishing publication.
Mountain lion hunting has been illegal in California since 1990, when voters passed Proposition 117.
Within hours of the photo appearing, callers deluged the state Fish and Game Commission office, and the Humane Society of the United States urged Richards to step down.
"It's not illegal. But he's thumbed his nose at the people of California," said Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of the Humane Society. "He's supposed to be representing the interests of all California citizens. It seems like such a tone-deaf action. What part of 'no' doesn't he understand?"
Richards did not respond to requests for an interview.
He hunted an animal legally in another state, what the hell is the big deal? Sounds like the president of the Humane Society is brain dead.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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He kills animals for sport. I can't imagine why that would piss of the president of the humane society.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Oh Gosh! He killed a fricken lion? But the poor lion was never given a chance to sneak into a campsite and kill a baby! 
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vn_nnanji
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Wait....the President of the Fish and Game commission is a hunter? OH NOEZ! 
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Manegarm
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I do not see the issue..
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Mastara
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Tell em to cry more. As a citizen we have the rights to hunt and we exercise it. If you dont like it, feel free to exercise your right to leave.
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__Bonk__
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If its legal in another state no big deal. Also hunting is a legal sport done by millions of people.
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Cawlin
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vn_nnanji posted:
Wait....the President of the Fish and Game commission is a hunter? OH NOEZ!
LOL exactly this!
Game commissioners are (rightly) all about conservation as hunters and fishers themselves. These folks are charged with husbanding our wildlife and wilderness areas but their charge includes managing the various populations of the species under their purview, and one of those ways of managing wildlife population is through hunting and hunting regulations. Frankly, a game commissioner that was not a hunter (at the very least with a camera/sketchbook) or who didn't fish (at the very least catch and release) would be highly suspect in my book and likely not a good candidate for the job.
As a game commissioner you have an unenviable task of interfacing with the wilderness AND with the hunting and fishing public AND with the anti-hunting/fishing public. It's not an easy job and given that the officers are bound to uphold the states' position on wildlife management through regulated hunting, if they were non or anti-hunters/fishers themselves, things just wouldn't work out...
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NuEM
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Hunting for fun seems very "human" to me.
Okay now that I think about it other animals do it too.
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Cawlin
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NuEM posted:
Hunting for fun seems very "human" to me.
Okay now that I think about it other animals do it too.
Mountain lions are an interesting case though to be honest.
There's a large part of me that thinks that if you can see a mountain lion and have an opportunity to shoot it, you should. The reason for that is that if mountain lions' populations are getting to the point that they are encroaching on human populated areas, they are now a danger to humans. Further, yes, in a lot of areas mountain lions are pretty had on livestock as well.
Of course, the hunter in me would love to see a mountain lion since they are all but extinct in Pennsylvania.
All in all, I don't really "hunt for fun (only)". I don't hunt anything I won't eat, but I don't need to hunt to eat, I enjoy it and do it for the sport of it really, but again, I won't kill what I don't intend to eat.
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NuEM
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You don't get paid for doing it, but you do it anyways. Sounds like you're having fun. Nothing wrong with that. 
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Cawlin
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NuEM posted:
You don't get paid for doing it, but you do it anyways. Sounds like you're having fun. Nothing wrong with that.
Absolutely understood and agreed.
To clarify though: the term "hunting for fun" is usually applied to people who will shoot animals that they don't intend to use/eat. So I am making that distinction. It probably seems silly to make but it matters to me.
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Taliesihne
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If you are an Idaho State Patrolman, it's probably not wise to publish photos of yourself visiting a California Cannabis Club.
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Cawlin
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Taliesihne posted:
If you are a North Dakota State Patrolman, it's probably not wise to publish photos of yourself visiting a California Cannabis Club.
Yes but hunting mountain lions is not really in the same ballpark as cannabis lol. Mountain lion hunting in California is illegal because mountain lions are endangered. Killing them in Idaho is legal because they are not endangered there and because there is likely significant "negative" impact on the local livestock from mountain lions.
Banning mountain lion hunting all over the nation because California's population is endangered (despite the fact that generally Californians think that their word should be good for the rest of the nation) would quickly see much of the interior of the US with major issues with livestock and even SOME areas with problematic mountain lion - human interaction - i.e. people would start becoming food, along with family pets.
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Taliesihne
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Pot is legal in California. It isn't in Idaho.
The analogy is fine.
The problem here isn't that he did it - it's that he was an idiot and took pictures of it.
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Bonzoboy1
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Taliesihne posted:
Pot is legal in California. It isn't in Idaho.
The analogy is fine.
It would not be legal for an Idaho resident.
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Taliesihne
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Taliesihne posted:
Pot is legal in California. It isn't in Idaho.
The analogy is fine.
It would not be legal for an Idaho resident.
Fine, assume the pictures are from when he was a resident.
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AzureTyger
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The Humane Society is barely less crazy than PETA.
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Cawlin
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Taliesihne posted:
Pot is legal in California. It isn't in Idaho.
The analogy is fine.
The problem here isn't that he did it - it's that he was an idiot and took pictures of it.
The analogy is terrible.
AR-15s with adjustable stocks are illegal in New Jersey. They are legal in like 45 other states. If I live in New Jersey, should I not let a picture of myself be taken using an AR-15 with an adjustable stock in another state? What about guys who go on shows like Top Shot and use weapons that would otherwise be illegal in their home states? Should they be persecuted for this?
AzureTyger posted:
The Humane Society is barely less crazy than PETA.
Agreed. In fact they hurt their own case by virtue of perception when they go after what they think is "low hanging fruit" like this game commissioner, rather than focusing their efforts elsewhere where real animal cruelty is going on.
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MatrexMistwalker
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No problem at all for me unless it was one of those where they pen up the animal and station the hunter 50 yards away oh and administer a drug to the lion so it doesnt move to fast.
When I was in South Dakota they have a hunt there without a time limit but a bag limit and they reached their limit in a very short period of time which made me wonder how many mountain lions were in the black hills.
Rarely do I have an issue with the Humane society but I think they are off base with this one.
Oh and the pot argument is not a good analogy unless the fed has changed its opinion.
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Taliesihne
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If you are a member of the state Anti-Gun taskforce, yep.
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Cawlin
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Taliesihne posted:
If you are a member of the state Anti-Gun taskforce, yep.
See, the game commission is not anti-hunting. There's your disconnect. I explained that above, but I guess you missed it. Reread.
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Taliesihne
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I did read it. It's irrelevant.
It was pants on head retarded to take a picture of the kill and have it published.
What one chooses to do in their own time is their own business. Until they publish it in a magazine - at that point, you are inviting commentary. The humane society is happy to oblige.
I don't agree with the humane society, but I have no issue with them expressing their opinion either.
Mayhap homeboy won't decide to televise his next hunting trip.
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Cawlin
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Taliesihne posted:
I did read it. It's irrelevant.
It was pants on head retarded to take a picture of the kill and have it published.
What one chooses to do in their own time is their own business. Until they publish it in a magazine - at that point, you are inviting commentary. The humane society is happy to oblige.
I don't agree with the humane society, but I have no issue with them expressing their opinion either.
Mayhap homeboy won't decide to televise his next hunting trip.
Nobody is suggesting censoring the humane society. We are suggesting that they are retarded for getting their ass up in the air over this.
The man did nothing illegal and did nothing untoward even given his office, ESPECIALLY given his office. To argue otherwise is of course, what the zealot crazies in the humane society are hoping for. Guess they hooked you with their baseless rhetoric.
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Taliesihne
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I think if you are a state agent charged with (in part) keeping people from hunting mountain lions, it's not the wisest idea to get your hunt and kill of a mountain lion published in a magazine.
Both the Humane Society and this Schlub are retarded. Not one or the other.
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ZigmundZag
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The only thing I don't understand is why go all the way to Idaho? Pumas are easy to find in Arizona I hear. They come out for just about any bait, too.
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Cawlin
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Taliesihne posted:
I think if you are a state agent charged with (in part) keeping people from hunting mountain lions, it's not the wisest idea to get your hunt and kill of a mountain lion published in a magazine.
Both the Humane Society and this Schlub are retarded. Not one or the other.
So what you're saying is that a person charged with enforcing responsible hunting laws should not be photographed obeying responsible hunting laws. OK... well some of us don't think that every special interest group with a crazy bone of contention should dictate the actions of the rest of us.
As for why Idaho - I couldn't tell you, but I know Idaho is a popular destination for a lot of North American big game AND small game hunting trips from all over the nation.
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Taliesihne
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Reasonable people would see an issue with publicizing actions that you punish others for on a semi-regular basis.
Again, it's one thing to do it. It's another to publish it in a magazine and feign shock when someone objects to it.
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Cawlin
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Taliesihne posted:
Reasonable people would see an issue with publicizing actions that you punish others for on a semi-regular basis.
Again, it's one thing to do it. It's another to publish it in a magazine and feign shock when someone objects to it.
He doesn't punish people for legally hunting mountain lion. It just so happens that there is no season for mountain lion in his state.
If he goes on a moose hunt in the Northeast, should someone take issue because there are no moose in California?
Are traffic cops not allowed to participate in amateur track racing?
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Taliesihne
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Cawlin posted:
Are traffic cops not allowed to participate in amateur track racing?
Not allowed != not wise.
If it's illegal to do so in your state, it's not wise to publish photographs of you doing so somewhere where it is legal.
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Cawlin
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Taliesihne posted:
Cawlin posted:
Are traffic cops not allowed to participate in amateur track racing?
Not allowed != not wise.
If it's illegal to do so in your state, it's not wise to publish photographs of you doing so somewhere where it is legal.
California's prohibition on mountain lion hunting is about conservation. If and when mountain lion populations make a comeback to the point that they are eating more household pets than they are already, I suspect that California will reverse the prohibition.
There is nothing wrong or unwise about what the guy did, period. To argue otherwise is to put all the power in the special interest groups' hands to curtail the actions of law abiding citizens.
Seriously, what if California freaked out even more and outlawed all hunting in the state except for like small game hunting for 2 weekends a year. They'd still need game commissioners. Would those game commissioners be unwise to go to a neighboring state and hunt during their vacations and so forth? Would it be a problem if one of them shot a record bear in a neighboring state and got photographed as he would all over the place?
On a side note:
This:
thearticle posted:
he shot the lion with a Winchester Centennial .45 carbine
has a huge amount of "cool factor" to me since I own two Winchester carbines myself - both are basically 19th century weapons (manufactured recently to their old specifications), one in 45 Colt and one in 45-70 Gov't. The idea of killing a mountain lion with one of those old and venerated weapons and supposedly obsolete calibers just might make me rethink my own position on hunting something I didn't plan to eat!
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vn_nnanji
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It would be unusual if the Fish and Game Commissioner didn't hunt.
Normally I would never hunt. I am a tree hugger, I couldn't think about hurting some defenseless animal.
Although......can you hunt Puma in Yuma? 
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