paulg_68
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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Suppose you have 10 guys who each produce 10 widgets per day. Then you assign them a new manager. He trains them better, he develops better manufacturing methods, he organizes them better, etc. After a few months, those exact same workers are producing 20 widgets each per day.
How much productivity do you credit to the workers and how much do you credit to the new manager? I'm looking for your opinions on how you see it.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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sweeny_comodore
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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youre a tard.
i think dae twat is saving you a spot in bed next to him.
i suggest you take him up on that
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Jesus? No, but there is indeed a god shaped hole in the heart of man, why is yours so empty? -- snarf igraine the original monotheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus
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paulg_68
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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Meltdown!
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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sweeny_comodore
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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paulg_68 posted:
Meltdown!
it was funnier when dae twat said it
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Jesus? No, but there is indeed a god shaped hole in the heart of man, why is yours so empty? -- snarf igraine the original monotheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus
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paulg_68
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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The fact that this thread made you think of dae twat is actually fairly compelling evidence that dae is trolling you.
I have no doubt that most of the outpost is trolling the hell out of him, but if he's so at the forefront of your mind that you thought he had something to do with this thread then that's solid proof that he's getting to you.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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sweeny_comodore
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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paulg_68 posted:
The fact that this thread made you think of dae twat is actually fairly compelling evidence that dae is trolling you.
I have no doubt that most of the outpost is trolling the hell out of him, but if he's so at the forefront of your mind that you thought he had something to do with this thread then that's solid proof that he's getting to you.
is that the best you can come up with?
/yawn....
you suck at this game
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Jesus? No, but there is indeed a god shaped hole in the heart of man, why is yours so empty? -- snarf igraine the original monotheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus
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paulg_68
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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I didn't come up with anything. Take a moment and calm yourself and reread this thread. You're so obsessing over some guy who has nothing to do with this thread that you can't stop talking about him.
Your minimelt here has nothing to do with me. Dae is pretty far under your skin to cause this kind of bleed over into an entirely unrelated thread.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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sweeny_comodore
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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sweeny_comodore posted:
paulg_68 posted:
The fact that this thread made you think of dae twat is actually fairly compelling evidence that dae is trolling you.
I have no doubt that most of the outpost is trolling the hell out of him, but if he's so at the forefront of your mind that you thought he had something to do with this thread then that's solid proof that he's getting to you.
is that the best you can come up with?
/yawn....
you suck at this game
i repeat
yawn....
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Jesus? No, but there is indeed a god shaped hole in the heart of man, why is yours so empty? -- snarf igraine the original monotheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus
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paulg_68
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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What is it you think you're yawning at?
What do you think is happening here?
Are you yawning at my thread about dae?
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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sweeny_comodore
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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paulg_68 posted:
What is it you think you're yawning at?
What do you think is happening here?
Are you yawning at my thread about dae?
you have a dae thread too?
why are you melting about dae?
what did he do to you that made you so melty?
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Jesus? No, but there is indeed a god shaped hole in the heart of man, why is yours so empty? -- snarf igraine the original monotheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus
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paulg_68
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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You should probably go back to Sin's board. I'm not sure you're ready for the big pond little fish.
-----signature-----
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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sweeny_comodore
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whats a matter?
you mad cause i yawned at your weakness?
or mad because i pointed out your self pwn?
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Jesus? No, but there is indeed a god shaped hole in the heart of man, why is yours so empty? -- snarf igraine the original monotheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus
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NuEM
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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The increasing amount of widgets on the market drives prices down, whereas the increased demand for widget raw materials drives prices for those up. The company is losing profits and in reaction to that fires 5 of their 10 guys. The worst can be avoided thanks to a government bailout. The new manager gets his golden parachute. Because of his excellent contacts he's soon hired by another company, making more than ever. The 5 widget makers that got fired are still looking for a new job.
What do I win?
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Groucho48
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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paulg_68 posted:
Suppose you have 10 guys who each produce 10 widgets per day. Then you assign them a new manager. He trains them better, he develops better manufacturing methods, he organizes them better, etc. After a few months, those exact same workers are producing 20 widgets each per day.
How much productivity do you credit to the workers and how much do you credit to the new manager? I'm looking for your opinions on how you see it.
He is innovative, he deserves a reward. They learned additional skills, they deserve a raise.
This isn't rocket science.
You could argue the company could just hire new workers trained in the new skills more cheaply. I could argue the innovator already shot his wad, so, dump him and move on.
It doesn't matter if a company can produce 2 million widgets instead of 1 million widgets if the population can only afford to buy 1 million widgets.
In reality, over the long haul, the company should reward innovators and reward adaptable employees.
In a larger scope, a rising standard of living for the middle class is the most beneficial outcome for society as a whole, so, society should focus on things that benefit the middle class. Give the workers a raise commensurate with the increase in productivity and society as a whole benefits.
The classic example is Henry Ford paying his employees enough that they could afford to buy his cars. He was a true innovator and he could have easily kept wages down and grabbed all the profits. But, he didn't, and America became an industrial powerhouse.
What right wingers don't see is that it is better for all segments of society if 80% of people can afford a car as opposed to only 20% of people being able to afford a car.
And this doesn't even address that fact that today's innovators aren't innovating incredible new products that revolutionize our lives. No, the innovators are busy inventing new financial instruments whose only purpose is to suck money out of the productive segment of society, while socializing all the risks onto the middle class.
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Thugoneous
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Did he use whips and are the workers children okay?
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Kjarhall
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Unquantifiable unless witnessed. You don't know how much of the increased productivity is due to the employees intelligence and work ethic vs. the managers skill in implementing the new methods, training, etc.
I've seen managers who have increased productivity with nothing but moral boosting and positive attitude.
I've also seen workers increase productivity due to a new process, in spite of having a manager suggest, implement and oversee it awfully. All he saw was someone elses idea and copied it with no clue how it really would work. The workers saw better than him and made it happen.
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Sgian_Dubh
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This is a stretch in assuming there are "innovative" managers out there.
Most of the managers I come across are mouth breathing C average dipshits that had no business being in college, and even less so as a manager of anything.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Who is responsible for how much productivity?
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paulg_68 posted:
The fact that this thread made you think of dae twat is actually fairly compelling evidence that dae is trolling you.
I have no doubt that most of the outpost is trolling the hell out of him, but if he's so at the forefront of your mind that you thought he had something to do with this thread then that's solid proof that he's getting to you.
Truth.
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Taliesihne
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30% Management, 70% Labor. Management gets 10% more if they have to fight executive management (you are talking about a middle manager in this example)
Management removes some inefficiencies and gets employees new knowledge. The work is still being done by labor however. Ergo, they get the lions share of the credit.
In my personal experience, management never knows how to do the actual work. They've got a rough idea, but they couldn't do most of the actual work. My experiences are all at highly technical jobs though.
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Rosaria
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How are you measuring productivity? Are you going solely on number of widgets produced per worker?
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Ptilk
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The workers who make the stuff are 100% responsible for productivity.
That's what productivity is. Amount of stuff created/number of workers...per whatever time unit you want.
In that formula, management, is counted just like any other worker. You know, because they are.
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Rosaria
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I'm asking Paul how he's measuring it. I should have addressed my post to him.
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paulg_68
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Personally I'm measuring productivity in widgets produced.
That's irrelevant though since the question is directed to you. Your answer should be based on how you personally would measure productivity.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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Moe_Nox
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Any causation that increases the effect of subject A is 50% of the increase, with the original subject's contribution equally 50%.
Numerically in your example Paul, the workers would be credited with 15 widgets and the manager with 5.
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theredkay1
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The innovator is responsible for some of the productivity gain. If the workers use new skills they are responsible for some as well.
Wages and compensation dont really flow to the responsible party though....most companies arent mailing checks out to those most responsible for their productivity (inventors of electricity, fire, language, the wheel). They are giving out checks based on the particulars of the labor market at the time.
Dividing up responsibility is nearly impossible in the real world and is swamped by labor market pressures from trade (or trade barriers).
Another thought is what drove the innovator to push for this new process? Usually its high wages to workers that create incentive to do things more efficiently. The minimum wage pushes up the floor on prices. So maybe its partly the innovator, partly the workers....but mostly Obama! 
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Bonzoboy1
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We compensate the manager of our company very well because he is efficient, productive and damn good looking.
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reesescups
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
We compensate the manager of our company very well because he is efficient, productive and damn good looking.
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Sin_of_Onin
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paulg_68 posted:
Suppose you have 10 guys who each produce 10 widgets per day. Then you assign them a new manager. He trains them better, he develops better manufacturing methods, he organizes them better, etc. After a few months, those exact same workers are producing 20 widgets each per day.
How much productivity do you credit to the workers and how much do you credit to the new manager? I'm looking for your opinions on how you see it.
In economics you pay them the market rate for their job.
The widget makers will probably get 5 widgets worth before and after. The Manage may get 10 or even 15. The person who owns the widget factory will get the rest.
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Eager_Igraine
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NuEM posted:
The increasing amount of widgets on the market drives prices down, whereas the increased demand for widget raw materials drives prices for those up. The company is losing profits and in reaction to that fires 5 of their 10 guys. The worst can be avoided thanks to a government bailout. The new manager gets his golden parachute. Because of his excellent contacts he's soon hired by another company, making more than ever. The 5 widget makers that got fired are still looking for a new job.
What do I win?
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