FineYoungCannibals posted:

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that what you get when you murder an unborn child

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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You know the one statement that will shut a pro-lifer up is.

"Do you want to pay more taxes?", because welfare, food stamps, public housing and medicaid or the child ends up as a ward of the state, all that costs money and guess where that money comes from?

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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The child doesn't have an unconditional right to use the mom's uterus.

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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The child doesn't have an unconditional right to use the mom's uterus.

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just the inalienable right to life

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Hyperimiator posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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You know the one statement that will shut a pro-lifer up is.

"Do you want to pay more taxes?", because welfare, food stamps, public housing and medicaid or the child ends up as a ward of the state, all that costs money and guess where that money comes from?

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Fatal flaw in your argument, is that you assume Republicans think logically, matters of faith are about superstition not logic.

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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The child doesn't have an unconditional right to use the mom's uterus.

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just the inalienable right to life

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_sooz_ posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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The child doesn't have an unconditional right to use the mom's uterus.

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just the inalienable right to life

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What about the mother's life? Is that forefit automatically because she's pregnant (let's, for argument's sake, say that the mother was raped, that the pregnancy was not the result of regular, consensual intercourse)?

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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Women wanting an abortion would be required to have an ultrasound device stuck up in their vajayjay, for no reason other than to make them feel guilty for having an abortion and to incur additional unnecessary health care costs.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion_will_be_forcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_r eason.html

They are sure focused on fixing the economy.

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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_sooz_ posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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just the inalienable right to life

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What about the mother's life? Is that forefit automatically because she's pregnant (let's, for argument's sake, say that the mother was raped, that the pregnancy was not the result of regular, consensual intercourse)?

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that's not we are talking about here but since you are bringing it up

If the baby's birth endangers the mother's life than an abortion is acceptable since life cannot come at the cost of life

If conception occurs because of rape, an abortion is acceptable because the act of sex that allowed conception to occur was not consensual

however if the act of sex was consensual and there are no medical limitations to giving birth by the mother, an abortion becomes murder and the doctor should be arrested for the act and the mother arrested as an accessory


personal responsibility and accountability do not go out the door because of of inconvenience

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_sooz_ posted:

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What i want to know is, since they are so keen to basically scare women into keeping pregnancies, what happens to the women who, yeah they might have been stupid and gotten pregnant when they should have used BC etc, but those women who cannot afford to support/ look after a child? Who's going to pay for the extra welfare, medical expenses etc

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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_sooz_ posted:

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What i want to know is, since they are so keen to basically scare women into keeping pregnancies, what happens to the women who, yeah they might have been stupid and gotten pregnant when they should have used BC etc, but those women who cannot afford to support/ look after a child? Who's going to pay for the extra welfare, medical expenses etc

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there is always adoption

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_sooz_ posted:

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What i want to know is, since they are so keen to basically scare women into keeping pregnancies, what happens to the women who, yeah they might have been stupid and gotten pregnant when they should have used BC etc, but those women who cannot afford to support/ look after a child? Who's going to pay for the extra welfare, medical expenses etc etc.

The American government is groaning under the financial weight of it's own population AS IT IS, how is forcing more women to keep pregnancies that they cant/ wont look after going to help? Yes, SOME of those children can be adopted, but it wouldnt be long before the number of people looking to adopt was outweighed by the number of "available" children. And then what? Oh, the state has to look after them. More money that the US government doesnt have, but will have to pay.

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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maybe then we wouldnt need to go to Haiti to get our adoptions

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regulator_cracka posted:

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Ah, election year.

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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that's not we are talking about here but since you are bringing it up

If the baby's birth endangers the mother's life than an abortion is acceptable since life cannot come at the cost of life

If conception occurs because of rape, an abortion is acceptable because the act of sex that allowed conception to occur was not consensual

however if the act of sex was consensual and there are no medical limitations to giving birth by the mother, an abortion becomes murder and the doctor should be arrested for the act and the mother arrested as an accessory


personal responsibility and accountability do not go out the door because of of inconvenience

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Lothland posted:

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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maybe then we wouldnt need to go to Haiti to get our adoptions

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If you think it has anything to do with abortion numbers then you really are uninformed on to how hard it is to adopt a kid in the US.

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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_sooz_ posted:

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What i want to know is, since they are so keen to basically scare women into keeping pregnancies, what happens to the women who, yeah they might have been stupid and gotten pregnant when they should have used BC etc, but those women who cannot afford to support/ look after a child? Who's going to pay for the extra welfare, medical expenses etc

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there is always adoption

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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Lothland posted:

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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maybe then we wouldnt need to go to Haiti to get our adoptions

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If you think it has anything to do with abortion numbers then you really are uninformed on to how hard it is to adopt a kid in the US.

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I am! I only came here for the +1


and LOOK! I got you one too

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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_sooz_ posted:

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What i want to know is, since they are so keen to basically scare women into keeping pregnancies, what happens to the women who, yeah they might have been stupid and gotten pregnant when they should have used BC etc, but those women who cannot afford to support/ look after a child? Who's going to pay for the extra welfare, medical expenses etc

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there is always adoption

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and who takes care of kids awaiting adoption?

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Talehon69 posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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that's not we are talking about here but since you are bringing it up

If the baby's birth endangers the mother's life than an abortion is acceptable since life cannot come at the cost of life

If conception occurs because of rape, an abortion is acceptable because the act of sex that allowed conception to occur was not consensual

however if the act of sex was consensual and there are no medical limitations to giving birth by the mother, an abortion becomes murder and the doctor should be arrested for the act and the mother arrested as an accessory


personal responsibility and accountability do not go out the door because of of inconvenience

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So, magic rules make it okay for so-called "murder"? It either is or isn't, there's no special circumstance that changes what you claim it is.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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_sooz_ posted:

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What i want to know is, since they are so keen to basically scare women into keeping pregnancies, what happens to the women who, yeah they might have been stupid and gotten pregnant when they should have used BC etc, but those women who cannot afford to support/ look after a child? Who's going to pay for the extra welfare, medical expenses etc

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there is always adoption

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and who takes care of kids awaiting adoption?

social services does and who pays for that oh yeah our tax dollars.

somebody has to pay for the care of this child until it finds a home.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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only the normal babies get adopted.

the special need's children often are passed over and end up as wards of the foster system or in a group home.

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_sooz_ posted:

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What i want to know is, since they are so keen to basically scare women into keeping pregnancies, what happens to the women who, yeah they might have been stupid and gotten pregnant when they should have used BC etc, but those women who cannot afford to support/ look after a child? Who's going to pay for the extra welfare, medical expenses etc etc.

The American government is groaning under the financial weight of it's own population AS IT IS, how is forcing more women to keep pregnancies that they cant/ wont look after going to help? Yes, SOME of those children can be adopted, but it wouldnt be long before the number of people looking to adopt was outweighed by the number of "available" children. And then what? Oh, the state has to look after them. More money that the US government doesnt have, but will have to pay.

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Jezza_Belle posted:

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_sooz_ posted:

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What i want to know is, since they are so keen to basically scare women into keeping pregnancies, what happens to the women who, yeah they might have been stupid and gotten pregnant when they should have used BC etc, but those women who cannot afford to support/ look after a child? Who's going to pay for the extra welfare, medical expenses etc etc.

The American government is groaning under the financial weight of it's own population AS IT IS, how is forcing more women to keep pregnancies that they cant/ wont look after going to help? Yes, SOME of those children can be adopted, but it wouldnt be long before the number of people looking to adopt was outweighed by the number of "available" children. And then what? Oh, the state has to look after them. More money that the US government doesnt have, but will have to pay.

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there are always people wanting to adopt white babies, its the other races that have available children, and those that become ward of the court after they're 2-3 years old.

the problem is that most women don't have what it takes to give up a baby of their own accord. The maternal instinct is so devastatingly strong that they can't see the writing on the wall.

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WhipSmack posted:

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The majority of people know that both sides suck ass.

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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:

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WhipSmack posted:

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The majority of people know that both sides suck ass.

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Sadly, they do not. This forum alone demonstrates that.

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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however if the act of sex was consensual and there are no medical limitations to giving birth by the mother, an abortion becomes murder and the doctor should be arrested for the act and the mother arrested as an accessory

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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however if the act of sex was consensual and there are no medical limitations to giving birth by the mother, an abortion becomes murder and the doctor should be arrested for the act and the mother arrested as an accessory

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Says you. Most people disagree. You of all people should be against legislating morality of this kind, and of depriving a woman of liberty and the free use of her own organs in the manner in which she deems appropriate. Choosing to have sex is not the same thing as choosing to have a baby, nor is the woman slave to whatever grows inside her.

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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Women wanting an abortion would be required to have an ultrasound device stuck up in their vajayjay, for no reason other than to make them feel guilty for having an abortion and to incur additional unnecessary health care costs. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion_will_be_forcibly_penetrated _for_no_medical_reason.html They are sure focused on fixing the economy.

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_sooz_ posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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The child doesn't have an unconditional right to use the mom's uterus.

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just the inalienable right to life

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What about the mother's life? Is that forefit automatically because she's pregnant (let's, for argument's sake, say that the mother was raped, that the pregnancy was not the result of regular, consensual intercourse)?

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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that's not we are talking about here but since you are bringing it up

If the baby's birth endangers the mother's life than an abortion is acceptable since life cannot come at the cost of life

If conception occurs because of rape, an abortion is acceptable because the act of sex that allowed conception to occur was not consensual

however if the act of sex was consensual and there are no medical limitations to giving birth by the mother, an abortion becomes murder and the doctor should be arrested for the act and the mother arrested as an accessory


personal responsibility and accountability do not go out the door because of of inconvenience

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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Women wanting an abortion would be required to have an ultrasound device stuck up in their vajayjay, for no reason other than to make them feel guilty for having an abortion and to incur additional unnecessary health care costs. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion_will_be_forcibly_penetrated _for_no_medical_reason.html They are sure focused on fixing the economy.

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So women shouldnt feel any guilt for murdering their unborn baby? Good for Virginia taking a moral stand.  That law should be enacted all over the country.

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Lothland posted:

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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Women wanting an abortion would be required to have an ultrasound device stuck up in their vajayjay, for no reason other than to make them feel guilty for having an abortion and to incur additional unnecessary health care costs. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion_will_be_forcibly_penetrated _for_no_medical_reason.html They are sure focused on fixing the economy.

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So women shouldnt feel any guilt for murdering their unborn baby? Good for Virginia taking a moral stand.  That law should be enacted all over the country.

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But when a person has a moral stand against gays then that is a horrible travesty right? http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/17 /10437521-nj-gov-christie-vetoes-same-sex-marriage-bill He's just standing up for his morals as well. Morals are not law and trying to push your morals on another is asinine.

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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Lothland posted:

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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Women wanting an abortion would be required to have an ultrasound device stuck up in their vajayjay, for no reason other than to make them feel guilty for having an abortion and to incur additional unnecessary health care costs. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion_will_be_forcibly_penetrated _for_no_medical_reason.html They are sure focused on fixing the economy.

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So women shouldnt feel any guilt for murdering their unborn baby? Good for Virginia taking a moral stand.  That law should be enacted all over the country.

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But when a person has a moral stand against gays then that is a horrible travesty right? http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/17 /10437521-nj-gov-christie-vetoes-same-sex-marriage-bill He's just standing up for his morals as well. Morals are not law and trying to push your morals on another is asinine.

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so basically you're for letting out all the murderers on death row too?  How can the law be hypocritical in saying that the premeditated taking of one life is wrong but another life isnt?

Nice try with the strawman argument though since gay rights are no where near the same thing as committing the murder of an unborn child. Gay rights dont infringe on another person's rights in any way shape or form. They hate just for the sake of hating. Pro abortionists fight to save lives.

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Lothland posted:

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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Lothland posted:

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[blockquote]NonOffensiveName posted:

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[blockquote]_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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Women wanting an abortion would be required to have an ultrasound device stuck up in their vajayjay, for no reason other than to make them feel guilty for having an abortion and to incur additional unnecessary health care costs. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion_will_be_forcibly_penetrated _for_no_medical_reason.html They are sure focused on fixing the economy.

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So women shouldnt feel any guilt for murdering their unborn baby? Good for Virginia taking a moral stand.  That law should be enacted all over the country.

---

But when a person has a moral stand against gays then that is a horrible travesty right? http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/17 /10437521-nj-gov-christie-vetoes-same-sex-marriage-bill He's just standing up for his morals as well. Morals are not law and trying to push your morals on another is asinine.

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levgre posted:

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Because they aren't living human beings, legally, physiologically, or psychologically.

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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levgre posted:

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Because they aren't living human beings, legally, physiologically, or psychologically.

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hmm maybe I missed something in Health ed class but the way I was told babies are born is from a man impregnating a women...Im not sure how much more "living human being" you can get.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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You know the one statement that will shut a pro-lifer up is.

"Do you want to pay more taxes?", because welfare, food stamps, public housing and medicaid or the child ends up as a ward of the state, all that costs money and guess where that money comes from?

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AynRand posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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You know the one statement that will shut a pro-lifer up is.

"Do you want to pay more taxes?", because welfare, food stamps, public housing and medicaid or the child ends up as a ward of the state, all that costs money and guess where that money comes from?

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We need "Like" buttons on here.

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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I always get a kick out of the assclowns that are anti-war but pro choice... at least the men I killed in battle had a chance to fight for their life.

and you can say what you will about the pro lifers, they are pro for all life, not just whats convenient.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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so basically all you people that are pro-life basically like to classify women as unequals, because of their sex they are forced to carry out an "pregnancy" because of somebodies religious beliefs. also you are supporting that women have no rights or choices in regards to their body, when it comes to religious teachings. So Christians and Muslims arent too far apart on their placement of women. please a embryo is not a living human until it can survive outside the womb without machines. in the first 2 trimesters a baby is nothing more than a parasite that is made with human dna.

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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actually I think what they are getting at is that the FETUS is an equal and has a right to life... those the "pro life" thing

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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so basically all you people that are pro-life basically like to classify women as unequals, because of their sex they are forced to carry out an "pregnancy" because of somebodies religious beliefs. also you are supporting that women have no rights or choices in regards to their body, when it comes to religious teachings. So Christians and Muslims arent too far apart on their placement of women. please a embryo is not a living human until it can survive outside the womb without machines. in the first 2 trimesters a baby is nothing more than a parasite that is made with human dna.

---

why make this about religion?  The law already stipulates that killing is wrong. Its barely a moral thing much less a religious thing. Allowing abortion is one of the major reasons why society is so irresponsible as we are now.  People think/say, "oh I got pregnant but I can just have an abortion and get rid of it." How would it be if people were like, "Oh I have a spouse but I dont want her anymore so Im going to shoot her when she gets home."  You really cant blame that on religion.  People are always looking for the easy way out.  Society feels so entitled now that they can devalue human life to call a precious human baby that theyve help to conceive a "mistake." How much more cold and callous can we get? 

No one has a right to do anything(with their own body or not) if it infringes on the rights of another human being.  By making that choice to kill a baby you are infringing on its right to life. Its not about women being second class citizens its about first and foremost women taking responsibility for themselves and not getting pregnant in the first place and secondly its about taking personal responsibility for your choices and facing the consequences of those actions. I still like how no one has even said how a person can be charged with killing a baby if they kill the mother yet abortions happen all across the US and murderers are going in out and of abortion clinics daily

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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so basically all you people that are pro-life basically like to classify women as unequals, because of their sex they are forced to carry out an "pregnancy" because of somebodies religious beliefs. also you are supporting that women have no rights or choices in regards to their body, when it comes to religious teachings. So Christians and Muslims arent too far apart on their placement of women. please a embryo is not a living human until it can survive outside the womb without machines. in the first 2 trimesters a baby is nothing more than a parasite that is made with human dna.

---

why make this about religion?  The law already stipulates that killing is wrong. Its barely a moral thing much less a religious thing. Allowing abortion is one of the major reasons why society is so irresponsible as we are now.  People think/say, "oh I got pregnant but I can just have an abortion and get rid of it." How would it be if people were like, "Oh I have a spouse but I dont want her anymore so Im going to shoot her when she gets home."  You really cant blame that on religion.  People are always looking for the easy way out.  Society feels so entitled now that they can devalue human life to call a precious human baby that theyve help to conceive a "mistake." How much more cold and callous can we get? 

No one has a right to do anything(with their own body or not) if it infringes on the rights of another human being.  By making that choice to kill a baby you are infringing on its right to life. Its not about women being second class citizens its about first and foremost women taking responsibility for themselves and not getting pregnant in the first place and secondly its about taking personal responsibility for your choices and facing the consequences of those actions. I still like how no one has even said how a person can be charged with killing a baby if they kill the mother yet abortions happen all across the US and murderers are going in out and of abortion clinics daily

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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HAH!

whatever lets you sleep at night, bub.

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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so basically all you people that are pro-life basically like to classify women as unequals, because of their sex they are forced to carry out an "pregnancy" because of somebodies religious beliefs. also you are supporting that women have no rights or choices in regards to their body, when it comes to religious teachings. So Christians and Muslims arent too far apart on their placement of women. please a embryo is not a living human until it can survive outside the womb without machines. in the first 2 trimesters a baby is nothing more than a parasite that is made with human dna.

---

why make this about religion?  The law already stipulates that killing is wrong. Its barely a moral thing much less a religious thing. Allowing abortion is one of the major reasons why society is so irresponsible as we are now.  People think/say, "oh I got pregnant but I can just have an abortion and get rid of it." How would it be if people were like, "Oh I have a spouse but I dont want her anymore so Im going to shoot her when she gets home."  You really cant blame that on religion.  People are always looking for the easy way out.  Society feels so entitled now that they can devalue human life to call a precious human baby that theyve help to conceive a "mistake." How much more cold and callous can we get? 

No one has a right to do anything(with their own body or not) if it infringes on the rights of another human being.  By making that choice to kill a baby you are infringing on its right to life. Its not about women being second class citizens its about first and foremost women taking responsibility for themselves and not getting pregnant in the first place and secondly its about taking personal responsibility for your choices and facing the consequences of those actions. I still like how no one has even said how a person can be charged with killing a baby if they kill the mother yet abortions happen all across the US and murderers are going in out and of abortion clinics daily

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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To me, all the right to an abortion does is leave a woman who is already deeply stressed and fearful a way to make a decision that will scar them for the rest of their life... and kill an unborn human being

For one, I feel that I stand as proof that Abortion isnt the right way to go. My mother got pregnant at age 16 back in 1968 and her father kicked her out on the street. She dropped out of school and got a job scaling fish in a factory till she was almost 8 months pregnant and had me. After that she set out to better herself thorough getting an education and hard work.

I'd like to think that I have been a benefit to the world. I'd like to think that my offspring will be a benefit to the world. These things are the result of my mother's decision to have me.

I don't need science OR religion to tell me that you aren't doing the right thing by killing the fetus, all I have to do is consider the bigger picture.

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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To me, all the right to an abortion does is leave a woman who is already deeply stressed and fearful a way to make a decision that will scar them for the rest of their life... and kill an unborn human being

For one, I feel that I stand as proof that Abortion isnt the right way to go. My mother got pregnant at age 16 back in 1968 and her father kicked her out on the street. She dropped out of school and got a job scaling fish in a factory till she was almost 8 months pregnant and had me. After that she set out to better herself thorough getting an education and hard work.

I'd like to think that I have been a benefit to the world. I'd like to think that my offspring will be a benefit to the world. These things are the result of my mother's decision to have me.

I don't need science OR religion to tell me that you aren't doing the right thing by killing the fetus, all I have to do is consider the bigger picture.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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so basically all you people that are pro-life basically like to classify women as unequals, because of their sex they are forced to carry out an "pregnancy" because of somebodies religious beliefs. also you are supporting that women have no rights or choices in regards to their body, when it comes to religious teachings. So Christians and Muslims arent too far apart on their placement of women. please a embryo is not a living human until it can survive outside the womb without machines. in the first 2 trimesters a baby is nothing more than a parasite that is made with human dna.

---

why make this about religion?  The law already stipulates that killing is wrong. Its barely a moral thing much less a religious thing. Allowing abortion is one of the major reasons why society is so irresponsible as we are now.  People think/say, "oh I got pregnant but I can just have an abortion and get rid of it." How would it be if people were like, "Oh I have a spouse but I dont want her anymore so Im going to shoot her when she gets home."  You really cant blame that on religion.  People are always looking for the easy way out.  Society feels so entitled now that they can devalue human life to call a precious human baby that theyve help to conceive a "mistake." How much more cold and callous can we get?  No one has a right to do anything(with their own body or not) if it infringes on the rights of another human being.  By making that choice to kill a baby you are infringing on its right to life. Its not about women being second class citizens its about first and foremost women taking responsibility for themselves and not getting pregnant in the first place and secondly its about taking personal responsibility for your choices and facing the consequences of those actions. I still like how no one has even said how a person can be charged with killing a baby if they kill the mother yet abortions happen all across the US and murderers are going in out and of abortion clinics daily

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you want to talk about responsibility? for more than a decade, the us gov has supported and funded a abstinence based policy when it comes to sex, especially for tens. $10B+ has been spent promoting this. so teach the kids ignorance and see what happens. religion was created by the human psychological need to repress and separate us from the animal kingdom. because at our very core animal instincts still exist they are just repressed.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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To me, all the right to an abortion does is leave a woman who is already deeply stressed and fearful a way to make a decision that will scar them for the rest of their life... and kill an unborn human being For one, I feel that I stand as proof that Abortion isnt the right way to go. My mother got pregnant at age 16 back in 1968 and her father kicked her out on the street. She dropped out of school and got a job scaling fish in a factory till she was almost 8 months pregnant and had me. After that she set out to better herself thorough getting an education and hard work. I'd like to think that I have been a benefit to the world. I'd like to think that my offspring will be a benefit to the world. These things are the result of my mother's decision to have me. I don't need science OR religion to tell me that you aren't doing the right thing by killing the fetus, all I have to do is consider the bigger picture.

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but your not considering the big picture here. the world pop is what 7-8B people and climbing at a exponential rate with dwindling resources. big picture look at the family size limits imposed in China that is a snapshot of the future. you can argue freedom, rights, liberty, blah blah blah but if we had the same population as China guess what there would be limits imposed on family size.

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levgre posted:

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NonOffensiveName posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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so basically all you people that are pro-life basically like to classify women as unequals, because of their sex they are forced to carry out an "pregnancy" because of somebodies religious beliefs. also you are supporting that women have no rights or choices in regards to their body, when it comes to religious teachings. So Christians and Muslims arent too far apart on their placement of women. please a embryo is not a living human until it can survive outside the womb without machines. in the first 2 trimesters a baby is nothing more than a parasite that is made with human dna.

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why make this about religion?  The law already stipulates that killing is wrong. Its barely a moral thing much less a religious thing. Allowing abortion is one of the major reasons why society is so irresponsible as we are now.  People think/say, "oh I got pregnant but I can just have an abortion and get rid of it." How would it be if people were like, "Oh I have a spouse but I dont want her anymore so Im going to shoot her when she gets home."  You really cant blame that on religion.  People are always looking for the easy way out.  Society feels so entitled now that they can devalue human life to call a precious human baby that theyve help to conceive a "mistake." How much more cold and callous can we get?  No one has a right to do anything(with their own body or not) if it infringes on the rights of another human being.  By making that choice to kill a baby you are infringing on its right to life. Its not about women being second class citizens its about first and foremost women taking responsibility for themselves and not getting pregnant in the first place and secondly its about taking personal responsibility for your choices and facing the consequences of those actions. I still like how no one has even said how a person can be charged with killing a baby if they kill the mother yet abortions happen all across the US and murderers are going in out and of abortion clinics daily

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Go back and talk to your health teacher a more, maybe he'll teach you a little bit about reality. You are a disgraceful spokesman for the pro-lifer side on this issue. Hint: or or Does not equal

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levgre posted:

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The potential human argument doesn't make a bit of sense. 1: It involuntarily admits that the human "seed" is fundamentally different from an actual human... it grows INTO a human. 2. It includes early stages of development where it is so blatantly obvious that those cells/DNA do not deserve protection equal to grown humans. I.E. sperm and egg cells, the early zygote stages. Time for sleep. Not much point in arguing this topic, although ACF hasn't had an abortion thread in a while. Good fun!

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levgre posted:

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Because they aren't living human beings, legally, physiologically, or psychologically.

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Hyperimiator posted:

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God has no problem with the concept of birth being the beginning,

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Fozzie_Bear posted:

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I always get a kick out of the assclowns that are anti-war but pro choice

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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levgre posted:

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Because they aren't living human beings, legally, physiologically, or psychologically.

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They grow, they contain HUMAN DNA, they feel and they move ....ergo they are living human beings

What Lev is showing is the bigotry inherent in the progressive/socialist ideology. The word he just used, were used by the salve owners and those who supported slavery when it came to the slaves.

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notmforce2k posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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levgre posted:

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Because they aren't living human beings, legally, physiologically, or psychologically.

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They grow, they contain HUMAN DNA, they feel and they move ....ergo they are living human beings

What Lev is showing is the bigotry inherent in the progressive/socialist ideology. The word he just used, were used by the salve owners and those who supported slavery when it came to the slaves.

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Except that those are objective, observable differences

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Liberty! (not for women, LOL)

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Down with government!

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We must legislate against abortion!

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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I'm an atheist

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The fetus has inalienable rights!

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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We must cut spending!

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Let's pay more taxes to take care of unwanted babies!

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Asheron- posted:

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How to lower the national debt,fix poverty, and cure homelessness


Coat hangers

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Asheron- posted:

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How to lower the national debt,fix poverty, and cure homelessness


Coat hangers

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The Germans used ovens

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Asheron- posted:

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How to lower the national debt,fix poverty, and cure homelessness


Coat hangers

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The Germans used ovens


Make more babies.

Also cut all social services, f&&K the poor, they should starve, especially the babies that I demand they have. They should do as I demand, but I don't want to take any responsibility for it. LOL

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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levgre posted:

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Because they aren't living human beings, legally, physiologically, or psychologically.

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They grow, they contain HUMAN DNA, they feel and they move ....ergo they are living human beings

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levgre posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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levgre posted:

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Because they aren't living human beings, legally, physiologically, or psychologically.

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They grow, they contain HUMAN DNA, they feel and they move ....ergo they are living human beings

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It's so cute when pro-lifers try to use science to further their argument. It makes it so obvious how ignorant most of them are.

Okay, so your criteria for a "living human being" is Human cells which feel and can move?

So we can NEVER kill a person in a vegetative state. They are 100% human beings. They still have some muscle activity and their pain receptors are still functional. They may not have any level of consciousness, but apparently that doesn't matter.

Furthermore you just have stated you support abortions up to AT least week 20, or more reasonably up to week 26, where they begin to develop the basic brain structures needed to feel pain. Nearly ALL abortions in the US occur before this time.

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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The fact of the matter is that the law of the land is that abortions are legal and not murder, no matter how much you cry otherwise. This proposed law is a thinly veiled attempt to undermine a woman's legal rights, while requiring an invasive and demeaning procedure to try to convince her otherwise. Anyone who on any other issue complains about big government but supports this is the worst kind of hypocrite.

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deadcactus posted:

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You people make the most asinine arguments for or against just about anything...

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rabbitslayer posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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The fact of the matter is that the law of the land is that abortions are legal and not murder, no matter how much you cry otherwise. This proposed law is a thinly veiled attempt to undermine a woman's legal rights, while requiring an invasive and demeaning procedure to try to convince her otherwise. Anyone who on any other issue complains about big government but supports this is the worst kind of hypocrite.

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"requiring an invasive and demeaning procedure" isn't that the definition of an abortion?

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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rabbitslayer posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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The fact of the matter is that the law of the land is that abortions are legal and not murder, no matter how much you cry otherwise. This proposed law is a thinly veiled attempt to undermine a woman's legal rights, while requiring an invasive and demeaning procedure to try to convince her otherwise. Anyone who on any other issue complains about big government but supports this is the worst kind of hypocrite.

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"requiring an invasive and demeaning procedure" isn't that the definition of an abortion?

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So you think it would be fine if they passed a law requiring an unnecessary anal probe for everyone who asks for viagra?

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deadcactus posted:

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You people make the most asinine arguments for or against just about anything...

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rabbitslayer posted:

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_Gimpzilla_ posted:

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rabbitslayer posted:

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[quote=_Gimpzilla_]The fact of the matter is that the law of the land is that abortions are legal and not murder, no matter how much you cry otherwise. This proposed law is a thinly veiled attempt to undermine a woman's legal rights, while requiring an invasive and demeaning procedure to try to convince her otherwise. Anyone who on any other issue complains about big government but supports this is the worst kind of hypocrite.

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"requiring an invasive and demeaning procedure" isn't that the definition of an abortion?

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So you think it would be fine if they passed a law requiring an unnecessary anal probe for everyone who asks for viagra?

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rabbitslayer posted:

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does viagra go up your ass?? No, but an abortion is an invasive medical procedure... what part of that do you not get?

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rabbitslayer posted:

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so 2 medical instruments being jammed up your twat is fine, but 3 is rape?

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Kanga_Roo posted:

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rabbitslayer posted:

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does viagra go up your ass?? No, but an abortion is an invasive medical procedure... what part of that do you not get?

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The abortion is a choice. The ultrasound is to be coerced. What part of that are you missing?

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