The return of bonuses will help consumers shake off fears from the Great Recession and boost spending, said Donald Grimes, a senior research specialist at the University of Michigan who studies labor and the economy. Savings rates peaked in December 2009 and have now fallen back to 2004 levels, he said.

Michigan Rising
Already, the economies of Michigan, Indiana and Ohio have improved faster than that of the U.S. since April 2009 as GM and Chrysler were forced into U.S.-backed bankruptcies as part of an $80-billion bailout, according to the Philadelphia Federal Reserve. Michigan is expected to lead all 50 states over the next six months, the Fed data show.

“This is a reversal of the first half of the 2000s when Michigan and other auto states bore the brunt of the downturn,” said Grimes, who conducts annual economic forecasts for the Institute for Research on Labor, Employment and the Economy. “Now they are getting a bigger share of the recovery.”

Bowlartz posted:

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So let me get this straight. The American Tax payer is on the hook still for billions of the auto bailouts, millions are still out of work, Dems profess to hate the "free" money going to corps but UAW members making enough to go buy a Corvette in a time of still massive economic uncertainty...lets applaud?

"“There are some people ready to put that toward a Corvette,” he said. “With all the concessions we gave during and after the bankruptcy, it’s an exciting time. Some of the money we lost will be made up with this profit sharing."

If you are anti-corporate making profits of any level, you have to be anti-UAW members pissing away money that should be used to make their lives more stable for future economic hardships.


The American tax payer got just as fleeced with UAW members getting a payout due to their party owning the President and Congress at the time as any corporation ever has done to us. I find this news deliciously hypocritical.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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So the lesson is that RWNs are really just mad because they got trickle down economics to work after the Republicans have failed at it for decades

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Lyken-P posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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So the lesson is that RWNs are really just mad because they got trickle down economics to work after the Republicans have failed at it for decades

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Yes... because the Republican party doesn't give money to cronies...

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Lyken-P posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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So the lesson is that RWNs are really just mad because they got trickle down economics to work after the Republicans have failed at it for decades

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Yes... because the Republican party doesn't give money to cronies...

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So the lesson is that RWNs are really just mad because they got trickle down economics to work after the Republicans have failed at it for decades.

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Tych2 posted:

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So trickle down economics works? Huh.

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Tych2 posted:

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So trickle down economics works? Huh.

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RWNs posted:

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UNIONS!!!

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Bjorvald posted:

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It was pretty cool how Obama gave a nice big chunk of GM to the auto worker unions while wiping out secured bond holders who were first in line. But what's a little corruption between friends, eh?

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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One role of government should be to prevent private companies making decisions that have outcomes that the government finds unacceptable.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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One role of government should be to prevent private companies making decisions that have outcomes that the government finds unacceptable.

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cabbyman posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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One role of government should be to prevent private companies making decisions that have outcomes that the government finds unacceptable.

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That's goddam scary that you think that!

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Bowlartz posted:

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So let me get this straight. The American Tax payer is on the hook still for billions of the auto bailouts, millions are still out of work, Dems profess to hate the "free" money going to corps but UAW members making enough to go buy a Corvette in a time of still massive economic uncertainty...lets applaud?

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cabbyman posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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One role of government should be to prevent private companies making decisions that have outcomes that the government finds unacceptable.

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That's goddam scary that you think that!

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Aerlinthian posted:

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Good grief, because of this thread I have hypocrisy induced nausea. :[

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Only a completely stupid person would not realize my statement is true.

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Rosaria posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Only a completely stupid person would not realize my statement is true.

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Only a completely stupid person who thinks the USSR is a good economic role model would think that statement is true.

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theredkay1 posted:

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Rosaria posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Only a completely stupid person would not realize my statement is true.

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Only a completely stupid person who thinks the USSR is a good economic role model would think that statement is true.

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lol, yes this is exactly like the soviet union

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Kjarhall posted:

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Kjarhall posted:

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The loan money is being paid back, profits have reversed GM's fortunes, an entire states economy is turning around AND Joe Worker is sharing in the success.

And people are complaining?

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Bjorvald posted:

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It was pretty cool how Obama gave a nice big chunk of GM to the auto worker unions while wiping out secured bond holders who were first in line. But what's a little corruption between friends, eh?

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Bowlartz posted:

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The American tax payer got just as fleeced with UAW members getting a payout due to their party owning the President and Congress at the time as any corporation ever has done to us. I find this news deliciously hypocritical.

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Kjarhall posted:

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The loan money is being paid back

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Kjarhall posted:

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The loan money is being paid back

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no, it's not. Taxpayers are in the hole with GM @ $23.8 billion. For the taxpayer ti get their money back' GM stock would have to hit at least $53 a share very quickly. Currently it is @ half of that price.

The longer the taxpayer has to wait to be repaid, the higher the stick price has to be

Kjar speaks out if ignorance to eth facts and reality because his blind ideology. He us nothing more tan one if the sheep depicted un Orwell's Animal Farm

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Bjorvald posted:

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It was pretty cool how Obama gave a nice big chunk of GM to the auto worker unions while wiping out secured bond holders who were first in line. But what's a little corruption between friends, eh?

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Kjarhall posted:

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The loan money is being paid back

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no, it's not. Taxpayers are in the hole with GM @ $23.8 billion. For the taxpayer ti get their money back' GM stock would have to hit at least $53 a share very quickly. Currently it is @ half of that price.

The longer the taxpayer has to wait to be repaid, the higher the stick price has to be

Kjar speaks out if ignorance to eth facts and reality because his blind ideology. He us nothing more tan one if the sheep depicted un Orwell's Animal Farm

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Bjorvald posted:

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It was pretty cool how Obama gave a nice big chunk of GM to the auto worker unions while wiping out secured bond holders who were first in line. But what's a little corruption between friends, eh?

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How did Obama give a chunk of GM is to auto workers? And how did he wipe out their secured bond holders?

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Marshall posted:

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I need to learn to how to read and do math

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Sansfear posted:

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Bjorvald posted:

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It was pretty cool how Obama gave a nice big chunk of GM to the auto worker unions while wiping out secured bond holders who were first in line. But what's a little corruption between friends, eh?

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This.

It is easy to be profitable when you get rid of all that pesky secured debt that you owe.

Maybe we should do the same thing with China. Just write off all the treasuries they have and distribute them to Americans.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Bjorvald posted:

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It was pretty cool how Obama gave a nice big chunk of GM to the auto worker unions while wiping out secured bond holders who were first in line. But what's a little corruption between friends, eh?

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How did Obama give a chunk of GM is to auto workers? And how did he wipe out their secured bond holders?

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Bowlartz posted:

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Bjorvald posted:

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It was pretty cool how Obama gave a nice big chunk of GM to the auto worker unions while wiping out secured bond holders who were first in line. But what's a little corruption between friends, eh?

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How did Obama give a chunk of GM is to auto workers? And how did he wipe out their secured bond holders?

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http://nlpc.org/stories/2010/12/23/gm-stock-dilution-coming-uaw-benefits


Stock dilution. He may not have wiped out the secured stock holders but he harmed them to the tune of billions in a UAW pay off.

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Still can't read.

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Rosaria posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Only a completely stupid person would not realize my statement is true.

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Only a completely stupid person who thinks the USSR is a good economic role model would think that statement is true.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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It is an endorsement of things like letting the government do whatever they want.

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Sansfear posted:

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Bjorvald posted:

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It was pretty cool how Obama gave a nice big chunk of GM to the auto worker unions while wiping out secured bond holders who were first in line. But what's a little corruption between friends, eh?

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This.

It is easy to be profitable when you get rid of all that pesky secured debt that you owe.

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Lyken-P posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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It is an endorsement of things like letting the government do whatever they want.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Which really comes down to the will of the people being expressed through our laws and our Democracy.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Rosaria posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Only a completely stupid person would not realize my statement is true.

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Only a completely stupid person who thinks the USSR is a good economic role model would think that statement is true.

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What I said is in no way an endorsement of the USSR. Not even a little bit.

It is an endorsement of things like not letting corporations do whatever they want.

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Rosaria posted:

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Then explain what you meant. Corporations cannot do whatever they want unless they are well-connected to the government.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Rosaria posted:

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Then explain what you meant. Corporations cannot do whatever they want unless they are well-connected to the government.

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Corporations cannot do whatever they want because the government tells them not to.

For example Corporations have to respect property rights of others because the government tells them to. If you agree that this is important then you agree with my initial statement.

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Rosaria posted:

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Your initial statement sounded like a bit of economic and social whimsy. Is this going to be one of those discussions that's either/or - either you agree with government intervention with no provisos or you think the government has no role in businesses? I don't believe in either/or although people are pushed to one side or another on this board. I don't think the government is the last arbiter in sound business judgement, was that something you were suggesting?

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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IMO the government should never have been put in the position to save GM the way they did. That the real reason was that it was done to try and save the retirements of thousands of workers. Pension systems help create this scenario and create a massive risk for these employees and former employees. IMO it makes more sense to prevent this from happening than to save these people once things blow up.

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theredkay1 posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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IMO the government should never have been put in the position to save GM the way they did. That the real reason was that it was done to try and save the retirements of thousands of workers. Pension systems help create this scenario and create a massive risk for these employees and former employees. IMO it makes more sense to prevent this from happening than to save these people once things blow up.

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I dont know that I buy this as 'the real reason'...but it should give the vocal anti-bailout folks pause.

Wrecked retirements create a lot of political pressure. Nobody likes the thought of wrecked retirement plans and penniless retirees....and the people closest to retirement who will have lost the most also vote the most.

A response to this might be to rethink how retirement is setup in the US. Do you create a strong national insurance program to protect people from retiring broke? This creates value (less old broke people) and it lets you avoid bailout pressures.

The vocal anti-bailouters seem to take the opposite view most of the time. Not only should we not bailout companies, we should also try to wreck any kind of retirement insurance program....and we will avoid the bailout pressure by stronger willpower in the future (and magic ponies).

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Lyken-P posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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The group that was really saved from the auto bailouts were those relying on a pension from GM.

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Pensions are a bad idea to begin with, management always messes up the calculations, and it should be done away with. Give people more pay and let them save/invest for themselves.

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theredkay1 posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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IMO the government should never have been put in the position to save GM the way they did. That the real reason was that it was done to try and save the retirements of thousands of workers. Pension systems help create this scenario and create a massive risk for these employees and former employees. IMO it makes more sense to prevent this from happening than to save these people once things blow up.

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I dont know that I buy this as 'the real reason'...but it should give the vocal anti-bailout folks pause.

Wrecked retirements create a lot of political pressure. Nobody likes the thought of wrecked retirement plans and penniless retirees....and the people closest to retirement who will have lost the most also vote the most.

A response to this might be to rethink how retirement is setup in the US. Do you create a strong national insurance program to protect people from retiring broke? This creates value (less old broke people) and it lets you avoid bailout pressures.

The vocal anti-bailouters seem to take the opposite view most of the time. Not only should we not bailout companies, we should also try to wreck any kind of retirement insurance program....and we will avoid the bailout pressure by stronger willpower in the future (and magic ponies).

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theredkay1 posted:

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Wrecked retirements create a lot of political pressure. Nobody likes the thought of wrecked retirement plans and penniless retirees....and the people closest to retirement who will have lost the most also vote the most.

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Bjorvald posted:

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theredkay1 posted:

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Wrecked retirements create a lot of political pressure. Nobody likes the thought of wrecked retirement plans and penniless retirees....and the people closest to retirement who will have lost the most also vote the most.

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http://am.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/01/bondholder-furious-over-gm-bankruptcy/

I'm sure she would have appreciated a bit of that Obama love to protect her retirement too, but its ok since she's an ebil capitalist.

Oh wait, actually she's a school teacher.

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