The ultrasound legislation would constitute an unprecedented government mandate to insert vaginal ultrasonic probes into women as part of a state-ordered effort to dissuade them from terminating pregnancies, legislative opponents noted.

"We're talking about inside a woman's body," Del. Charnielle Herring, a Democrat, said in an emotional floor speech. "This is the first time, if we pass this bill, that we will be dictating a medical procedure to a physician."

Groucho48 posted:

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Oh, and the Virginia Assembly has also passed a bill saying that human life begins at the moment the egg is fertilized.

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Scarne posted:

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Groucho48 posted:

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Oh, and the Virginia Assembly has also passed a bill saying that human life begins at the moment the egg is fertilized.

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That makes a lot of women murderers when the fertilized egg fails to implant in the placenta.

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Tych2 posted:

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The Governor sounds like an idiot.

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Groucho48 posted:

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Republicans in Virginia have passed and the Governor says he will sign, a bill requiring that all women seeking an abortion MUST have a "transvaginal ultrasound" first. This is a totally unnecessary and invasive procedure.

The ultrasound legislation would constitute an unprecedented government mandate to insert vaginal ultrasonic probes into women as part of a state-ordered effort to dissuade them from terminating pregnancies, legislative opponents noted.

"We're talking about inside a woman's body," Del. Charnielle Herring, a Democrat, said in an emotional floor speech. "This is the first time, if we pass this bill, that we will be dictating a medical procedure to a physician."

Oh, and the Virginia Assembly has also passed a bill saying that human life begins at the moment the egg is fertilized.

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Tych2 posted:

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Dumb. A woman doesn't just decide to have an abortion on a whim. The Governor sounds like an idiot.

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Taliesihne posted:

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Tych2 posted:

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Dumb. A woman doesn't just decide to have an abortion on a whim. The Governor sounds like an idiot.

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McConnel has used his tenure here as a springboard for national politics. He is wholly uninterested in actually governing the state.

That said, it's actually a state assemblyman that is driving this. He's running for the Senate and figures this is a good lock for support from the more pious parts of our state (Lynchburg and SW VA.)

It's going to backfire.

And technically speaking, this bill might make me a criminal. Although we keep getting assurances that contraception will still be legal, once the bill becomes law it's subject to interpretation by the judiciary and it's going to be shockingly easy to undo that promise (on purpose.) Since I have had contraceptive surgery, it's entirely possible that I could end up a criminal.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Huh?

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Taliesihne posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Huh?

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There is some serious and valid concern that the personhood bill will outlaw certain types of contraception.

If the wrong judge gets ahold of the ruling on that, he\she could take it to an ignominious end.

I don't seriously think I'm going to get arrested for having a vaz, but it's not entirely fiction to state it could happen either. Especially considering the climate around this - there is no such thing as 'too extreme' when it comes to reproductive tyranny by the religious right.

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Taliesihne posted:

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Tych2 posted:

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Dumb. A woman doesn't just decide to have an abortion on a whim. The Governor sounds like an idiot.

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McConnel has used his tenure here as a springboard for national politics. He is wholly uninterested in actually governing the state.

That said, it's actually a state assemblyman that is driving this. He's running for the Senate and figures this is a good lock for support from the more pious parts of our state (Lynchburg and SW VA.)

It's going to backfire.

And technically speaking, this bill might make me a criminal. Although we keep getting assurances that contraception will still be legal, once the bill becomes law it's subject to interpretation by the judiciary and it's going to be shockingly easy to undo that promise (on purpose.) Since I have had contraceptive surgery, it's entirely possible that I could end up a criminal.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Your argument is stupid. You have a clear cut case of something and you ignore that to create a second argument that involves multiple assumptions that make no sense and are based on little to no evidence.

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imaloon1 posted:

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sweet jesus from getting snipped?

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To mitigate Democrats' concerns, Del. Vivian Watts (D-Fairfax) tried to attach an amendment to the bill that would declare that nothing in it could be construed to outlaw any form of legal contraception, since some kinds of birth control have the potential to prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. The House voted 64 to 34 against considering the amendment.

Taliesihne posted:

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imaloon1 posted:

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sweet jesus from getting snipped?

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It's within the realm of possibility depending on how this plays out.

To mitigate Democrats' concerns, Del. Vivian Watts (D-Fairfax) tried to attach an amendment to the bill that would declare that nothing in it could be construed to outlaw any form of legal contraception, since some kinds of birth control have the potential to prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. The House voted 64 to 34 against considering the amendment.

The law itself won't ban it\make it illegal, but without guarantees, who the frack knows what happens when it's interpreted.

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Taliesihne posted:

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who the frack knows what happens when it's interpreted.

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Tych2 posted:

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It's already been done. They couldn't hold you responsible for what you could legally. I think thats why SoO is making crazy eyes at your plight.

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Taliesihne posted:

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SOO is making a fatal assumption here - that they are looking for reasonable ways to mitigate abortion without having an overall impact on health to the state at large.

What this movement is all about is the complete opposite - they want as many assinine laws in place to force legal rulings on the subject in general.

I would not put it past a local judge to legislate from the bench and ban all contraception just to force the higher courts to rule on it. And that's not just a Right Wing thing - the bill is divisive enough that the more liberal parts of the state could attempt to do the same thing to get the law overturned.

Without legal protections for contraception in place, this has the capability to become a very ugly scene.

I freely admit it's not very likely that this will happen. But like I said, it's not entirely fiction either.

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reesescups posted:

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It's cute how SoO thinks religious nut jobs are rational and logical...

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Based on crazy assumptions and fear mongering.

There is about as much basis for going after people with vaz now as there would be with the new law in place.

You people are stupid.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Yes your stupidity has already been well established in other thread Sobaki.

I should have just responded with a laugh.

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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One of the few power granted to government is to defend life.

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Ashmaele posted:

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Here's a question I have: How would you enforce this law? Will the state post agents from the newly-created Department of Vagina Inspection at every doctor's office with the authority to make every woman spread 'em?

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Kjarhall posted:

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It will get struck down by the Supreme Court if it ever even makes it that far.

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Ashmaele posted:

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New Law Requires Women To Name Baby, Paint Nursery Before Getting Abortion

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posted:

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Oklahoma’s not the only state passing laws restricting abortions this week. The Virginia House of Delegates passed two of the strictest anti-abortion bills in the nation on Tuesday, and opponents say it’s part of a strategy which would make abortion illegal immediately if the Supreme Court were to overturn Roe v. Wade, CBS reported.

The first bill defines personhood at conception and is similar to the one passed by the Oklahoma Senate, which was noted in this morning’s AM Roundup. The Virginia bill doesn’t ban abortions, but it would make certain kinds of contraceptives illegal. If the Roe decision were eventually overturned, this measure would also make abortion illegal immediately.

The second measure passed in Virginia requires that women seeking an abortion be forced to undergo an ultrasound, which would mean a more physically invasive transvaginal ultrasound in the cases of early pregnancy. The Virginia Senate passed an ultrasound bill earlier this month, as Reuters noted. Gov. Bob McDonnell has indicated his support for the law, and is expected to sign it.

Several other states have ultrasound laws, including Texas, where a federal judge allowed the state to begin enforcing it earlier this month, after an appeals court blocked part of the statute.

Virginia’s approach to the personhood bill is different from other states where similar measures failed, like Colorado and Mississippi. Virginia’s bill doesn’t seek an amendment to the state constitution and looks to make change through the legal code, the Baltimore Sun reported.

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posted:

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The Personhood Act, Senate Bill 1433, received international attention in the wake of a proposed amendment from Sen. Constance Johnson, D-Holdenville. The amendment said it was an act against unborn children for men to waste sperm.

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Eager_Igraine posted:

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Ashmaele posted:

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New Law Requires Women To Name Baby, Paint Nursery Before Getting Abortion

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Ashmaele posted:

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New Law Requires Women To Name Baby, Paint Nursery Before Getting Abortion

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Eager_Igraine posted:

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http://newsok.com/oklahoma-senate-passes-personhood-act-saying-life-begins-at-conception/article/3649308

posted:

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The Personhood Act, Senate Bill 1433, received international attention in the wake of a proposed amendment from Sen. Constance Johnson, D-Holdenville. The amendment said it was an act against unborn children for men to waste sperm.

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In consideration of vasectomy crimes against personhood.

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Ashmaele posted:

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In addition to forcing the woman to undergo an unnecessary procedure, I also hope that the "ZOMG, government regulations are killing teh job creators" realize that this law would also likely (1) compel insurance companies to pay for unnecessary medical procedures (2) force doctors to conduct procedures that they do not believe to be medically necessary and (3) give gov't more leeway to subpoena private medical records (b/c the law will be enforced by forcing clinics to turn over charts to ensure that the ultrasound was conducted before the abortion took place).

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During the floor debate on Tuesday, Del. C. Todd Gilbert announced that “in the vast majority of these cases, these [abortions] are matters of lifestyle convenience.” (He has since apologized.) Virginia Democrat Rep. David Englin, who opposes the bill, has said Gilbert’s statement “is in line with previous Republican comments on the issue,” recalling one conversation with a GOP lawmaker who told him that women had already made the decision to be “vaginally penetrated when they got pregnant.” (I confirmed with Englin that this quote was accurate.)

Groucho48 posted:

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Ashmaele posted:

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In addition to forcing the woman to undergo an unnecessary procedure, I also hope that the "ZOMG, government regulations are killing teh job creators" realize that this law would also likely (1) compel insurance companies to pay for unnecessary medical procedures (2) force doctors to conduct procedures that they do not believe to be medically necessary and (3) give gov't more leeway to subpoena private medical records (b/c the law will be enforced by forcing clinics to turn over charts to ensure that the ultrasound was conducted before the abortion took place).

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They probably already have clinics in mind to do the testing. Clinics belonging to their donors. Like Scott did down in Florida. Require all welfare recipients to be drug tested then award the testing contract to a buddy of yours. Who cares about the added expense to a state with huge budget problems or that only 2% of welfare recipients tested positive. It gets him support from the base and money for his friends. Win-win!

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Cawlin posted:

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I
I find these morality fueled intrusions by government (whether by RWNs or LWNs) no less appalling than any of the others against which I've railed in the past.

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Kjarhall posted:

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Cawlin posted:

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I
I find these morality fueled intrusions by government (whether by RWNs or LWNs) no less appalling than any of the others against which I've railed in the past.

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Agreed, but it isn't just the gov't. This is being pushed to the gov't by people who have decided that their morals need to be everyones. Even if they don't necessarily follow their own rules themselves. They should worry more about their own morality and leave the rest of us alone.

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