Aerlinthian
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Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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Going to fiddle while we burn or are you at the point where you will help throw gasoline on it just so we get to start over?
And here is the interesting part, now a committed leftest pundit is even pointing it out for the other guys...
http://youtu.be/8Qctd4RB9Ps
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Testerion
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Last elections had 1,5 million dead people eligible to vote and over 3 million were able to vote in several states.
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imaloon1
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The goose.... She is cooked sirs!!
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Sin_of_Onin
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Talk to any higher up politically connected individual and they will tell you all the ways the other side cheats. If they are to believed the whole thing is rigged.
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reesescups
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I'm mobile ATM so didn't click the link.
Election fraud > voter fraud.
Sadly we are busy and apathetic just waiting for the whole thing to crumble...
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imaloon1
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I don't know if waiting for it to crumble is the right term.
Some of us are waiting to see who picks the fight.
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Groucho48
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As usual, the right has to distort what the left thinks. No one is in favor of fraud. We are saying that picture IDs would not prevent the kinds of fraud that actually can influence elections.
I watched the video. Besides showing that the Republican Party is incredibly incompetent and can't even run small primaries properly, could you point out anything that picture IDs would have prevented?
What the video taught me is that Republicans shouldn't be in charge of anything. I've also read that,, in the Nevada contest, it took several recounts to get 14 votes counted properly? 
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Aerlinthian
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Protip, this thread isn't about ID. It is about a corrupt criminal establishment undermining the last remaining glue that binds us. I do not assume incompetence.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Groucho48 posted:
As usual, the right has to distort what the left thinks. No one is in favor of fraud. We are saying that picture IDs would not prevent the kinds of fraud that actually can influence elections.
I watched the video. Besides showing that the Republican Party is incredibly incompetent and can't even run small primaries properly, could you point out anything that picture IDs would have prevented?
What the video taught me is that Republicans shouldn't be in charge of anything. I've also read that,, in the Nevada contest, it took several recounts to get 14 votes counted properly?
Yes, because the liberals believe that minorities are incapable of getting an ID card. It is either the worse form of racism or the lames excuse for blocking fair and honest elections I have ever heard. It is likely both.
So; do you really believe that minorities are incapable of getting an ID card Groucho48? That they are so weak they must depend on you for everything? This racism from the libreals is getting old. The way to stop racism is to stop being racist. Let's start with you Groucho48. Stop being a racist.
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Scarne
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Whose Line Is It Anyway? 
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Groucho48
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
Groucho48 posted:
As usual, the right has to distort what the left thinks. No one is in favor of fraud. We are saying that picture IDs would not prevent the kinds of fraud that actually can influence elections.
I watched the video. Besides showing that the Republican Party is incredibly incompetent and can't even run small primaries properly, could you point out anything that picture IDs would have prevented?
What the video taught me is that Republicans shouldn't be in charge of anything. I've also read that,, in the Nevada contest, it took several recounts to get 14 votes counted properly?
Yes, because the liberals believe that minorities are incapable of getting an ID card. It is either the worse form of racism or the lames excuse for blocking fair and honest elections I have ever heard. It is likely both.
So; do you really believe that minorities are incapable of getting an ID card Groucho48? That they are so weak they must depend on you for everything? This racism from the libreals is getting old. The way to stop racism is to stop being racist. Let's start with you Groucho48. Stop being a racist.
Convince me ID cards are needed and I'll be inn favor of them. 5 years of intensive investigations by the Bush DOJ, actual election records for the last few decades, and common sense says that getting hundreds and thousands and hundreds of thousands of voters to vote as someone else is an incredibly stupid and non-existent way of trying to steal an election.
Meanwhile, yes, it DOES make it more difficult to vote. Especially for older folks, poorer folks or folks without a car.
Thirty-six percent of Georgians over 75 do not have a driver’s license. Fewer than 3 percent of Wisconsin students have driver’s licenses listing their current address. The same study found that African Americans have driver’s licenses at half the rate of whites, and the disparity increases among younger voters; only 22% of black men aged 18-24 had a valid driver’s license.
.
.
.
In Ohio, a statewide survey found four instances of ineligible persons voting or attempting to vote in 2002 and 20042C out of 9,078,728 votes cast - a rate of 0.00004%. Despite the invocation of fraud as support for the new Georgia law, Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox has stated that she could not recall one documented case of voter fraud relating to the impersonation of a registered voter at the polls during her ten-year tenure as an election official. Nationwide, since October 2002, 86 individuals have been convicted of federal crimes relating to election fraud (including several offenses not remedied by ID requirements), while 196,139,871 ballots have been cast in federal general elections.
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_voter_identification/
A solution in search of a problem.
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Tych2
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Testerion posted:
Last elections had 1,5 million dead people eligible to vote and over 3 million were able to vote in several states.
Impossible!! We've been told this doesn't happen!! Just ask Groucho!
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Groucho48
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Aerlinthian posted:
Protip, this thread isn't about ID. It is about a corrupt criminal establishment undermining the last remaining glue that binds us. I do not assume incompetence.
If you are referring to Republican Party attempts to destroy Ron Paul, I agree with you.
In primaries, it isn't that difficult for a party to manipulate the vote. There aren't any poll watchers from the other party to keep things honest. Much of the legendary fraud in Chicago, in the bad, old days, wasn't to cheat Republicans; it was to cheat independent Democrats trying to fight the Democratic machine.
But, we are talking about Republicans, so, incompetence is always an option. If you always assume Republicans are incompetent and Democrats are cowards, you will seldom be disappointed.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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That's a really horrible mix of metaphors, Aerlin. Part of the criticism against Nero "playing the lyre while Rome burned" was that he and his camp actually started the fires.
I'm against any tax on voting. Period. Anything that makes this system more complicated, difficult, or expensive to cast a vote is simply wrong. We want more participation, not less.
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Taliesihne
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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
I'm against any tax on voting. Period. Anything that makes this system more complicated, difficult, or expensive to cast a vote is simply wrong. We want more participation, not less.
This.
Disenfranchisement borders on treason imo.
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reesescups
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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
That's a really horrible mix of metaphors, Aerlin. Part of the criticism against Nero "playing the lyre while Rome burned" was that he and his camp actually started the fires.
I'm against any tax on voting. Period. Anything that makes this system more complicated, difficult, or expensive to cast a vote is simply wrong. We want more participation, not less.
and less government overall...
Mandating more government, while asking for less government is kinda dumb.
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Groucho48
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Tych2 posted:
Testerion posted:
Last elections had 1,5 million dead people eligible to vote and over 3 million were able to vote in several states.
Impossible!! We've been told this doesn't happen!! Just ask Groucho!
Actually, I have said several times that this is a potential problem. Requiring county clerks to send updated death lists to the board of elections shortly before election day would fix it fairly easily and cheaply.
But, just because dead folks are still on the rolls doesn't mean that people use this to commit fraud. That felon's attempt in Maine to have his minions pretend to be dead people and vote wasn't completely successful. At least one guy, out of maybe 10, was caught.
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Scarne
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Tych2 posted:
Testerion posted:
Last elections had 1,5 million dead people eligible to vote and over 3 million were able to vote in several states.
Impossible!! We've been told this doesn't happen!! Just ask Groucho!
Yes, there are a lot of invalid voter registrations out there. And ACORN got in trouble for having registrations for "Mickey Mouse" and "Dallas Cowboys" (legally they had to turn them in, they aren't supposed to preemptively judge if someone is lying when filling out their voter registration forms). But despite all those potentially fraudulent votes, you end up being able to count the number of fraudulently votes cast in one of those two manners on your fingers.
The manpower requirements are too much and the penalties too harsh to try to alter an election in this manner. The fraudulent votes always end up being one-offs and not organized voter fraud.
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requiring a photo ID is racist! Certain people just don't have the intelligence to secure a free government photo ID.
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reesescups
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-Espiritu- posted:
free government photo ID.
? There is such a thing? I've never gotten a free ID card from any state agency, well Government agency for that matter...
Do you have to be on food stamps or something to get a free ID card?
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Groucho48
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reesescups posted:
-Espiritu- posted:
free government photo ID.
? There is such a thing? I've never gotten a free ID card from any state agency, well Government agency for that matter...
Do you have to be on food stamps or something to get a free ID card?
Some states have a free ID provision. Of course, you have to prove you are poor and then try to get to the DMV, which the right wing always uses as a poster child for incompetent government, but, which is now, suddenly, a beacon of efficiency, and get the ID card. Figure half a day, during work hours. No big deal. And, if you are 75 and disabled and don't have a birth certificate? Piece of cake!
Gotta stop those dozen or so scattered folks from fake voting each election!
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Thugoneous
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God forbid people put effort into voting. Property owners over 35 who have lived in the States for 20 years should be able to vote. The rest of us should accept their wisdom.
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Bjorvald
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>> We want more participation, not less.
Could not disagree more.
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Rhint
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Didn't you guys hear? The Supreme Court made election fraud legal a while back. ID's and whatnot are a sideshow as far as I am concerned when private interest can dominate the airwaves with commercials fed to the average mouth breather in this country.
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You need a license to fish. Requiring a license to fish doesn't seem to disenfranchise anyone.
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conservatives posted:
There's no such thing as free!
Let's give out free government IDs.
conservatives posted:
Subsidies encourage more of what you subsidize. Taxes encourage less of what you tax.
Let's tax elections.
conservatives posted:
The government is too big
Let's add another layer of bureaucracy.
conservatives posted:
The government is incompetent and shouldn't be entrusted with anything important (social progress, health care, taxes...
It's not nearly in charge enough of the single most important part of a functioning democracy
Let's see who the true conservatives are, and who are the ones who just like to play dress up.
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Rosaria
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I expect fraud and I don't care.
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Rosaria posted:
I expect fraud and I don't care.
The masters gone away! 
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Rosaria
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cabbyman posted:
Rosaria posted:
I expect fraud and I don't care.
The masters gone away!
at song reference. Okay, I care! See what a difference that made!
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Yukishiro1
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cabbyman posted:
You need a license to fish. Requiring a license to fish doesn't seem to disenfranchise anyone.
I was going to say fishing isn't a constitutional right but it actually is in California.
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Remnant_OBrien
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Tych2 posted:
Testerion posted:
Last elections had 1,5 million dead people eligible to vote and over 3 million were able to vote in several states.
Impossible!! We've been told this doesn't happen!! Just ask Groucho!
That number isn't what you think it is. Even assuming its accurate.
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Aerlinthian
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Another in depth follow up on the Maine situation by Maddow. I'm sure from her vantage point she wants to bring down the Republicans, but she has overwhelming ammo and justification here. From my POV I despise the entire establishment because it is glaringly obvious that the vast majority of them are career criminals whose only difference between petty criminals in jail and them is that they were smart enough to get politically connected.
As far as I am concerned you can start building the gallows for the establishment criminals now. 
http://youtu.be/El-Ktyix1ck
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Ashmaele
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Aerlinthian posted:
And here is the interesting part, now a committed leftest pundit is even pointing it out for the other guys...
http://youtu.be/8Qctd4RB9Ps
Quite frankly, as someone who supports Ron Paul's tactic of completely ignoring popular vote and hyjacking delegates, you really don't have much room to speak about election fraud because that's essentially what it amounts to. Watch your own vid from 8:56 forward. In Wead's own words, the popular vote "doesn't matter" and is just a "beauty contest" which he repeats over and over again.. He then goes on to justify his wrong doing by pointing the finger at Romney and his money.
Just when I'm convinced that our elections couldn't be any more of a joke, some self-serving candidate or party head uses some trick I've never heard of 
Maddow: Everybody's treating this like a big secret but if you and I keep talking about it people are going to end up figuring it out..
Wead: Eventually they will! [laughter]
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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If the delegates are what matter, it seems ludicrous that these other candidates aren't doing what they should to secure them.
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Tych2
Title: Obama Appointed Outpost Czar
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
Tych2 posted:
Testerion posted:
Last elections had 1,5 million dead people eligible to vote and over 3 million were able to vote in several states.
Impossible!! We've been told this doesn't happen!! Just ask Groucho!
That number isn't what you think it is. Even assuming its accurate.
I didn't make the post. Take it up with Testerion.
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Aerlinthian
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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Yes SoI, I hope people focus on that last five minutes so that they will realize that you're shilling for the corp establishment as per our last exchange.
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Kjarhall
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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cabbyman posted:
You need a license to fish. Requiring a license to fish doesn't seem to disenfranchise anyone.
Have you asked the fish?
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*http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/115147923/r115151508/
hah! true story tho i'm a woman an i even love boobs..how can you not??- HallowEve
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Eager_Igraine
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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Groucho48 posted:
If you always assume Republicans are incompetent and Democrats are cowards, you will seldom be disappointed.
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I know what you're trying to do but you're just sailing another failboat over the falls. - imaloon1
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Z-Elder
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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30% do not Vote. 30% are RWNs and 30% are LWNs. 10% are Bi.
So the correct answer to me is:
Rosaria posted:
I expect fraud and I don't care.
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they stand in the state of division and separation which by their own motion, they have made for themselves"
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imaloon1
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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Is this about Maine?
Because that is some seriously effed up stuff.
Iowa has already had to change it's winner's results as well...
And of course Ron Paul is still winning but nobody is saying anything....
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Ashmaele
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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Is there actual fraud going on? The stories I saw used the word "fraud" but what they described seemed more like "dumb and confusing rules". If they say votes after the 11th don't count, and then they don't count them, that doesn't seem like fraud to me.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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No, the news clip said when these counties reported in (on time) they were told the numbers were already in. This is from the guy whose job is to report the numbers to the commission or whatever it is. He's told, "ok we'll correct it." And the numbers are then reported as 0. This is from a county that voted Ron Paul, and was originally tallied (erroneously) as a Romney win. The difference between a Romney win and a Romney loss in this state is something like 108 votes, so that's huge.
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I don't typo often, but when I do, I blame Swype.
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Aerlinthian
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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Ashmaele posted:
Is there actual fraud going on?
Yes, as noted whole areas were willfully arbitrarily changed. You can't even count this as clerical error unless you are willing to use grossly incompetent accounting practices.
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ineenia
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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Testerion posted:
Last elections had 1,5 million dead people eligible to vote and over 3 million were able to vote in several states.
That sounds more like evidence of sloppy election practices not evidence of voter fraud.I'd be interested how many votes were cast in those peoples names if you have a link?
Also a question to those who want a voters ID card...What kinda ID do you think would be sufficient to have to show to get a voters ID?
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Groucho48
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Subject:
Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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You can't even count this as clerical error unless you are willing to use grossly incompetent accounting practices.
Republicans use them all the time. Remember back few years, the guy in charge of the Party's finances was convicted of stealing massive amounts from the Party? he was largely able to do so because the party had rejected all sorts of standard accounting procedures.
Same thing when the Republican official blew all that money at strip clubs. No one was keeping track.
It could be just general stupidity on the part of Republicans, but, my feeling is that that like to keep things loose and with no oversite because they ALL steal and go to strip clubs on the donor's dime.
That's why we have grifters like Gingrich and Palin doing so well with Republicans. Grifting is the whole culture. And, why not? When you have dozens of billionaires throwing money at you? I'd probably be grabbing it with both fists, too.
Creationism in the schools? Sure, sure. I'll need another couple million for my institute to get some studies and press releases going. Oh, and I could use another mill to throw into the anti-gay campaign. We need to lease a private jet to get to all the venues.
Given that culture, it doesn't surprise me at all that Republicans don't have anyone who can do an honest count.
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Aerlinthian
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Blatant election fraud, do you care or expect it at this point in America?
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Is the difference between us Groucho, that I will go after any of them for criminal activity? I hope not...
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