Bjorvald
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Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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http://publicola.com/2012/02/14/major-democratic-donor-to-meet-with-mckenna/
Some of the quotes:
The email, sent to fellow big Democratic donor Jabez Blumenthal, alerts his Democratic compatriot that he’s meeting with McKenna and complains about the local Democratic party being “on the wrong side of every important education reform issue.â€
Hanauer also calls Democratic leadership “stooges for the teachers union,â€
I have seen the enemy, and it is us.
We oppose charter schools. We oppose higher standards for kids. We oppose high standards for teachers. We oppose employment policies based on quality. We oppose accountability in all its forms. We oppose competition in any form.
We resist change and innovation. We prioritize the needs of adults over the interests of children.
Even the Gates Foundation has all but given up hope on our state.
This isn't some RWN. This is one of the biggest democratic donors in the state.
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Thugoneous
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That's the Government he paid for.
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Ashmaele
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lol charter schools consistently underperform their public school counterparts, why would anyone want more of them?
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Bjorvald
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Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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Ashmaele posted:
lol charter schools consistently underperform their public school counterparts, why would anyone want more of them?
Did you notice the forest while focusing on that tree?
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ZigmundZag
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He's right. Washington's rules on education in many regards are terrible. A few years ago, the state had to turn down a Gates grant for science because they legally cannot evaluate teachers based upon student performance, which was required by the grant. Who the hell throws away a huge fricken' grant like that?!? 
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Thugoneous posted:
That's the Government he paid for.
Yep, I hope he or she chokes on it.
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Moe_Nox
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Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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Bjorvald posted:
Hanauer also calls Democratic leadership “stooges for the teachers union,â€
'Stooge' seems to be the go to word for the uncreative and sophomoric members of the left. 
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Ashmaele
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Bjorvald posted:
Ashmaele posted:
lol charter schools consistently underperform their public school counterparts, why would anyone want more of them?
Did you notice the forest while focusing on that tree?
I saw a bunch of platitudes like "higher standards blah blah" without any mention of specifically how they are against "higher standards." The only specific I saw was "charter schools," so that's what I commented on. HTH!
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Ashmaele
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Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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ZigmundZag posted:
He's right. Washington's rules on education in many regards are terrible. A few years ago, the state had to turn down a Gates grant for science because they legally cannot evaluate teachers based upon student performance, which was required by the grant. Who the hell throws away a huge fricken' grant like that?!?
Are learning disabled/special needs kids lumped into the same category as the rest of the student body in WA? If so I could see a reasonable objection to being evaluated based on student performance if I have two or three LD kids in my class and the teacher next door has none.
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Thugoneous
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Ashmaele posted:
lol charter schools consistently underperform their public school counterparts, why would anyone want more of them?
That's what the unions tell us so it must be true. But ask any parent in DC where they would rather send their children to and you get a different answer. Who to believe??
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ZigmundZag
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Yeah, a lot of it is petty and pointless. With the job market where it is and so many qualified teachers laid off nationwide, districts have no trouble at all finding highly qualified applicants for jobs, even if the state doesn't always require it.
Charter schools are a mixed bag, in my opinion. They're often poorly implemented and for the wrong reasons, but when implemented in areas where public education has completely failed (i.e., L.A. Unified), they look better, at least on paper. This guy's point, though, is that Washington state won't even allow charter schools to form. The option should at least be available to voters if they're not happy with their local district.
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Ashmaele posted:
Are learning disabled/special needs kids lumped into the same category as the rest of the student body in WA? If so I could see a reasonable objection to being evaluated based on student performance if I have two or three LD kids in my class and the teacher next door has none.
You're asking what color the cars are in a state with no roads, Ash. How can students be lumped together for an evaluation that doesn't exist? The state does track the standard socioeconomic indicators (Special Ed, ELL and Free/Reduced meals) with respect to test performance, though.
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Desnoxvu
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I won't rant about the public school system but there should always be legal options for citizens of a free society. My daughters go to a semi-charter school and it is the best school I have seen locally. But in some states they are putting up more regulations against homeschools and charters. This should be a non-starter but for some reason Democrats are pursuing anti-competition with public schools. This should be a hot topic for local office elections against democrats who think they are everyone's daddy and mommy.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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Ashmaele posted:
lol charter schools consistently underperform their public school counterparts, why would anyone want more of them?
Charter school quality is all over the map but that is mostly due to the districts in which they are in. Plus many charter schools target specific groups of kids to try and develop talents that are outside the standard curriculum.
Charter schools are not a fix all issue but most of the fight against them surrounds teacher unions who don't like them because they are not required to hire union teachers.
There is a clear need to provide choices to parents and charter schools are a better option than vouchers IMO.
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Desnoxvu
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Ashmaele posted:
lol charter schools consistently underperform their public school counterparts, why would anyone want more of them?
Charter school quality is all over the map but that is mostly due to the districts in which they are in. Plus many charter schools target specific groups of kids to try and develop talents that are outside the standard curriculum.
Charter schools are not a fix all issue but most of the fight against them surrounds teacher unions who don't like them because they are not required to hire union teachers.
There is a clear need to provide choices to parents and charter schools are a better option than vouchers IMO.
The laws are now forcing charter schools to have the same test and curriculum standards as public schools. This doesn't make much sense to me, why would we teach all the children the exact same stuff? The state wants the kids to all be clones.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Actually all kids should be given the same test as a way to provide information to the parents so that they can make choices.
The idea that testing is a good way to determine funding is the real problem with NCLB, not the fact that testing is being done.
There is also a desperate need to remove the massive economic and educational incentives to segregate based on income and class.
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Moe_Nox
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Actually all kids should be given the same test as a way to provide information to the parents so that they can make choices.
The idea that testing is a good way to determine funding is the real problem with NCLB, not the fact that testing is being done.
There is also a desperate need to remove the massive economic and educational incentives to segregate based on income and class.
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Rosaria
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Ashmaele posted:
lol charter schools consistently underperform their public school counterparts, why would anyone want more of them?
Charter school quality is all over the map but that is mostly due to the districts in which they are in. Plus many charter schools target specific groups of kids to try and develop talents that are outside the standard curriculum.
Charter schools are not a fix all issue but most of the fight against them surrounds teacher unions who don't like them because they are not required to hire union teachers.
There is a clear need to provide choices to parents and charter schools are a better option than vouchers IMO.
They've done some remarkable things with ESL Latinos in charter schools in Chicago. They've expanded their curriculum to include parents whenever possible. One of these charter schools is a focal point for community activity [which is traditional in some countries] as well as enjoying a very high parental participation in the school itself. Meetings that include parents are SRO events. As you said, this does not apply to all charter schools. So much depends on the community/parental support it gets.
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Evaluating teachers by any means is a pipe dream, the teachers unions won't allow it and it is painfully obvious that they are calling the shots.
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Teachers are evaluated already. I don't know what world you live in.
The fight is over what to evaluate based on and what to do with the evaluations.
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Desnoxvu
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Moe_Nox posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Actually all kids should be given the same test as a way to provide information to the parents so that they can make choices.
The idea that testing is a good way to determine funding is the real problem with NCLB, not the fact that testing is being done.
There is also a desperate need to remove the massive economic and educational incentives to segregate based on income and class.
Wow, someone actually applauded this statement? Teaching every child the same things handed down from DC is a good thing? I met 3 kids yesterday who were drop outs. Some people would think that is a bad thing but if you read the statists on this board you might understand why I was sympathetic to their choice.
Here is a video representing your local democrat VN poster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3G-lMZxjo
and for those that want more info.
Lysander Spooner (Not that any of you have heard of him)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewtA3qcm3fo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unconstitutionality_of_Slavery
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Sin_of_Onin
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Evaluating teachers by any means is a pipe dream, the teachers unions won't allow it and it is painfully obvious that they are calling the shots.
Teachers are right to be afraid of the government and parents determining how they should and can be judged. It is an incredibly charged issue which results in the unions being over protective but not without a lot of legit reasons to have their guard up.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Desnoxvu posted:
Wow, someone actually applauded this statement? Teaching every child the same things handed down from DC is a good thing? I met 3 kids yesterday who were drop outs. Some people would think that is a bad thing but if you read the statists on this board you might understand why I was sympathetic to their choice.
Here is a video representing your local democrat VN poster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3G-lMZxjo
and for those that want more info.
Lysander Spooner (Not that any of you have heard of him)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewtA3qcm3fo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unconstitutionality_of_Slavery
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So a guy gives lots of money to Democrats, then forms a foundation that advocates for charter schools gets upset that even though he gave them a lot of money, the Democrats aren't giving him what he wants in return, so he writes a pissy memo and threatens to "have a talk" with some Republicans and mutters about giving them some money if the Democrats wont listen to him?
Big effing deal.
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Ashmaele
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ZigmundZag posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Are learning disabled/special needs kids lumped into the same category as the rest of the student body in WA? If so I could see a reasonable objection to being evaluated based on student performance if I have two or three LD kids in my class and the teacher next door has none.
You're asking what color the cars are in a state with no roads, Ash. How can students be lumped together for an evaluation that doesn't exist? The state does track the standard socioeconomic indicators (Special Ed, ELL and Free/Reduced meals) with respect to test performance, though.
Don't they have to take standardized tests as part of NCLB?
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ZigmundZag
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Ashmaele posted:
ZigmundZag posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Are learning disabled/special needs kids lumped into the same category as the rest of the student body in WA? If so I could see a reasonable objection to being evaluated based on student performance if I have two or three LD kids in my class and the teacher next door has none.
You're asking what color the cars are in a state with no roads, Ash. How can students be lumped together for an evaluation that doesn't exist? The state does track the standard socioeconomic indicators (Special Ed, ELL and Free/Reduced meals) with respect to test performance, though.
Don't they have to take standardized tests as part of NCLB?
Yes, but the teachers' names are not part of data collection. There's a lot of resistance to doing so, as well. Some individual schools may choose to do this, but it requires an awesome principal who can actually develop trust with his or her teachers.
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ZigmundZag posted:
Yes, but the teachers' names are not part of data collection.
Wow. So at your typical school it could be that every single person in some teacher's class failed their tests, and everyone in another teacher's class passed, and no one would even ever know?
I can totally understand opposition to using that data to make hiring and firing decisions. But the idea that the school shouldn't even be allowed to KNOW how students in one teacher's class did relative to students in another teacher's class is mind-boggling to me.
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I don't think it matters. The school system in the US will just become more of what it is now.
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Charter schools can serve a good purpose. North Carolina has an incredibly large number of charter schools that cater to mostly middle and upper class white families because white parents finally got tired of their children being beaten up by black children on a daily basis.
Charter schools also form when when the public schools start diverting 90% percent of their resources on catering to Spanish ESL students, and english speaking children start being placed on the back burner as they are the minority in these schools.
Good for them. If the government and the school board won't step in a do something, take the matter into your own hands.
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B_Shinkicker posted:
Charter schools are good because it allows us to get away from brown people and stop spending money on them!
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The thing I glean from this thread is that right wingers are shocked and amazed that the Democratic Party doesn't always do what its big donors want.
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With the subtext being: its bad that the Democratic party doesn't do exactly what its big donors want.
and the sub-subtext being: Republicans always do what their big donors want.
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One of the problems is that the power is not in the hands of the parents.
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Good parents are more important than good schools. You cant fix this problem with money
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Yukishiro1 posted:
ZigmundZag posted:
Yes, but the teachers' names are not part of data collection.
Wow. So at your typical school it could be that every single person in some teacher's class failed their tests, and everyone in another teacher's class passed, and no one would even ever know?
I can totally understand opposition to using that data to make hiring and firing decisions. But the idea that the school shouldn't even be allowed to KNOW how students in one teacher's class did relative to students in another teacher's class is mind-boggling to me.
It's not part of the data collection at the state level. Schools have to piece it together by themselves, based upon which students took the exams, and while I'm sure most districts do this, it's still pretty contentious as to who gets to see the data (typically their current and next years' teachers do, for what it's worth, at least at the elementary level...secondary gets more muddled).
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Bonzoboy1
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Subject:
Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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In Los Angeles they didn't release the data but they did release the teacher's and the school's scores.
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Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often and for the same reason.
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Skinnyrumcakes
Title: Lich Larping Vampire Hunter
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Subject:
Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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Hitler would be proud of the teacher unions here in WA state!
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B_Shinkicker
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Subject:
Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
B_Shinkicker posted:
Charter schools are good because it allows us to get away from brown people and stop spending money on them!
Stop spending money on them?? These charter schools exist because an unacceptable majority of tax payer dollars are going to these "brown people" in the public school system. When families get sick of their kids either getting a substandard education because the primary focus is on ESL, or their kids come home shitkicked because whites are the persecuted minority at a public school, they get the hell out and form their own schools.
Good for them!
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paulg_68
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Subject:
Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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Does anyone else find it ironic that teachers unions oppose student/teacher evaluation and oppose charter schools. Then their explanation for why they oppose charter schools is that they don't score as well on student/teacher evaluations.
If unions don't believe those evaluations are a valid measure, then why do they use them as proof that regular public schools are superior?
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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paulg_68
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Subject:
Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
B_Shinkicker posted:
Charter schools are good because it allows us to get away from brown people and stop spending money on them!
How does it reduce spending on brown people? Don't they cut spending proportionally to the number of people who leave?
If so then the spending per brown person would remain constant no matter what.
Walk us through the math Yuki.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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Jaedence
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Subject:
Major democratic donor goes OFF on dems in WA state.
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All I know is rich job creators = good while middle class teachers = bad.
That about sum it up?
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