Sin_of_Onin
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So apparently the Obama administration is pushing for “comprehensive†tax reform which is meant to address both the corporate tax and the income tax. The problem is they really only proposed an income tax plan and not a corp tax one.
A rather absurd stance IMO but the goal is definitely a good one. The biggest hurdle to it seems to be Republicans balking at the income tax changes and Democrats balking at the corp tax changes. It is a very important issue IMO and if Obama is a one term President and can walk out with Obamacare and comprehensive tax reform he will go down as a relatively active one term President.
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Clackdor
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Corp taxes should be non-existant or minimal.
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Cawlin
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
So apparently the Obama administration is pushing for “comprehensive†tax reform which is meant to address both the corporate tax and the income tax. The problem is they really only proposed an income tax plan and not a corp tax one.
A rather absurd stance IMO but the goal is definitely a good one. The biggest hurdle to it seems to be Republicans balking at the income tax changes and Democrats balking at the corp tax changes. It is a very important issue IMO and if Obama is a one term President and can walk out with Obamacare and comprehensive tax reform he will go down as a relatively active one term President.
If Obama had put in a reasonable plan for Obamacare instead of what it is, and if he could get truly comprehensive tax reform through, there's no fkn way he'd be a one term president. I'd vote for him and I'd be out there bussing people from wherever the fk I could find them to go and vote for him if he could do both of those things. It seems doubtful that he will overhaul Obamacare and devise a truly comprehensive tax reform plan by November though. At least it seems likely he will have a 2nd term either way to work on those things - or not work on them.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Obamacare is already a massive leap in terms of the standards the US has with regard to healthcare. The standard being that people with pre-existing coverage are not screwed over and that everyone gets insurance.
There is no doubt that the particulars of Obamacare are a mess in large part due to our schizophrenic approach to UHC.
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Cawlin
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Obamacare is already a massive leap in terms of the standards the US has with regard to healthcare. The standard being that people with pre-existing coverage are not screwed over and that everyone gets insurance.
There is no doubt that the particulars of Obamacare are a mess in large part due to our schizophrenic approach to UHC.
Admittedly, it's a huge leap, but as it is presently designed, I fear it's a leap out of the frying pan into what might just be the fire. They say that "the Devil is in the details", and that's the truth with Obamacare. Again, he gets a nod from me for taking the first big step, but it's still a fkn far walk to the proper outcome.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Agreed but the US is still hung up on fearing UHC.
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Cawlin
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Agreed but the US is still hung up on fearing UHC.
Yes and that is annoying. I am in favor of it conceptually, but I am not in favor of anything I could imagine coming out of our current government (and by that I don't mean the Obama administration - I mean the entire 21st century manifestation of the United States government).
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Sin_of_Onin
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The US already has layer upon layer of healthcare related government bureaucracy which is mostly problematic because it is a combination of a hundred different top down approaches that have been patched together.
The German system makes the most sense to me but the choice shouldn’t be to opt out of coverage but to supplement it. Which fits with what we already do relatively well.
UHC should be enough to alleviate out moral concerns about providing healthcare. It doesn’t have to be the end of the healthcare discussion. I think that is what people fear most even before concerns with efficiency.
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paulg_68
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Outposters saying that Obamacare is good is pure revisionist history.
100% of Outposters were in agreement that it was a turd back before this version passed.
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imaloon1
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
So apparently the Obama administration is pushing for “comprehensive†tax reform which is meant to address both the corporate tax and the income tax. The problem is they really only proposed an income tax plan and not a corp tax one.
A rather absurd stance IMO but the goal is definitely a good one. The biggest hurdle to it seems to be Republicans balking at the income tax changes and Democrats balking at the corp tax changes. It is a very important issue IMO and if Obama is a one term President and can walk out with Obamacare and comprehensive tax reform he will go down as a relatively active one term President.
I have active bowel movements as well which is what all this legislation is worth imo.
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Sin_of_Onin
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paulg_68 posted:
Outposters saying that Obamacare is good is pure revisionist history.
100% of Outposters were in agreement that it was a turd back before this version passed.
I was always one of the bigger defenders of Obamacare. There are a lot of problems with it that need to be addressed but I have been saying that from the begining too.
The way I see it we are really far away as a nation on this issue and Obamacare is a painful but necessary step towards accepting the eventual outcome which is UHC.
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imaloon1
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If that eliminates the need for insurance companies I will tout your UHC to the grave.
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Ashmaele
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The individual components standing alone poll really well with the public. The main objection from the center to the left stems from the lack of a public option.
Once the GOP takes over again and inevitably shits their beds again and the Dems get back in with a big majority we will get a public option. It is inevitable.
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theredkay1
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There is alot to be gained with tax reform. But many politicians will lose very good campaign material if they ever choose to tackle this one. So its not gonna happen.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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None of this makes any difference without a balanced budget amendment.
So, have fun with the mental masturbation.
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Modeeb
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This is always a full employment move for tax professionals. Ill let you know what comes across my radar. I think the salient feature in all of this is the word, proposed.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
None of this makes any difference without a balanced budget amendment.
So, have fun with the mental masturbation.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Hey. Here's a plan...
http://www.theabsurdreport.com/2009/when-you%E2%80%99re-in-a-hole%E2%80%A6stop-digging/
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Sin_of_Onin
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I am so surprised to see something simplistic and stupid coming from you AA. Thanks for changing up your schtick.
Not being able to talk about tax reform because of ZOMG "balanced budget" amendment is just stupid. Laughably stupid.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Sorry, didn't mean to break up your weekly meeting of the circle jerk club.
Do carry on...
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
So apparently the Obama administration is pushing for “comprehensive†tax reform which is meant to address both the corporate tax and the income tax. The problem is they really only proposed an income tax plan and not a corp tax one.
A rather absurd stance IMO but the goal is definitely a good one. The biggest hurdle to it seems to be Republicans balking at the income tax changes and Democrats balking at the corp tax changes. It is a very important issue IMO and if Obama is a one term President and can walk out with Obamacare and comprehensive tax reform he will go down as a relatively active one term President.
You honestly believe that after all this time Obama is really interested in tax reform? As the man said, "There is a sucker born every minute."
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Rosaria
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A legitimate question because I see different numbers being presented - which percentage of the American population pays or is eligible to pay federal taxes?
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Yukishiro1
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99.5% if you include all federal taxes. Number was made up but you get the point. Almost everyone pays either or both of gas tax or payroll tax.
If you mean how many people pay net taxes after what they get back through the tax code, I dunno. The 53% number is obviously wrong because it doesn't figure in payroll tax. I would guess somewhere around 70% but I don't really know.
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Rosaria
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I don't really know either, Yuki. I have conflicting data on something that I would think could be calculated within acceptable - or +, with some degree of accuracy.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Sorry, didn't mean to break up your weekly meeting of the circle jerk club.
Yeah corp tax reform is totally a liberal circle jerk issue.
You are a clown.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
You honestly believe that after all this time Obama is really interested in tax reform? As the man said, "There is a sucker born every minute."
He is interested in raising taxes on the rich and that means changing corp taxes. He also wants to change the basis in which corp taxes are calculated in order to help the labor market compete globally.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Corporate tax reform in a vacuum while continuing to pile on debt is a pointless, deceptive circle jerk.
Carry on.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Corporate tax reform in a vacuum while continuing to pile on debt is a pointless, deceptive circle jerk.
Carry on.
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Yukishiro1
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
I am a clown who likes circle jerks. You can find some of my work in the clown porn thread.
Carry on.
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Modeeb
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I picture Rosa, like Erin Burnett on CNN 
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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You are all now just getting your feel-good preschool participation medals by debating that which has no meaning.
When Simpson-Bowles and cut-cap-and-balance were handily defeated by statist interests controlling this country, it rendered everything else a sideshow.
I think it's cute that you enjoy participating in that adorable farce...
...but I'll pass.
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Yukishiro1
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If you're passing could you go smear feces in some other thread instead?
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AzureTyger
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Abaddon_Ambrosius, MBA posted:
Corporate tax reform in a vacuum while continuing to pile on debt is a pointless, deceptive circle jerk.
Carry on.
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Rosaria
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Since we don't have numbers yet at least in this thread, what are the stated goals?
- more competative?
- more fair?
- more in payments?
- maybe changes in how small businesses structure their federal taxes?
What are the stated goals for Obama's tax reform?
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Yukishiro1
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Usually when people say tax reform they mean eliminating deductions and other distortions. I suspect Obama would like to eliminate a bunch of deductions that mainly favor rich people in order to both increase revenues from rich people and make filing easier.
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9 9 9
Nein Nein Nein
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Rosaria posted:
What are the stated goals for Obama's tax reform?
Re-election.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Rosaria posted:
Since we don't have numbers yet at least in this thread, what are the stated goals?
- more competative?
- more fair?
- more in payments?
- maybe changes in how small businesses structure their federal taxes?
What are the stated goals for Obama's tax reform?
The general outline for the income portion of the reforms were in his budget proposal. The corp side was even more vague but the administration has been trying to sell the income tax side (which includes a massive increase in the taxation of capital gains) as part of a corp tax restructuring. One of the big topics that come up when talking about taxing dividends and capital gains in general is the idea that the gains were already taxed at the corp level. Because Obama is once again pushing Congress to make up their own minds he is not really leading on the issue. You can love or hate that approach I don't really care but that seems to be what he is doing here again.
There will always be talk of simplicity and fairness but I think the heart of the debate will actually be global competition. The dividend debate will get some press but hopefully they really look at our corporate tax structure in the context of global corp taxes. I don't think either side will shed the large number of credits that undermine the system but we will see.
How small businesses fit in with these reforms will be interesting to see but I tend to doubt that any large change will be made even if it has become more necessary. The Republicans will mention small businesses a bazillion times as they work really hard to protect the massively wealthy.
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Rosaria
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Rosaria posted:
What are the stated goals for Obama's tax reform?
Re-election.
Well DUH!!
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"Them Bollinger Bands on the DJIA are starting to look like columns of projectile vomit." ~ Red Pill
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Sin_of_Onin
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I think if this was a real political winner he would have come out with a corp plan. I think the capital gains change is a political winner and that is what he came out with.
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"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
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"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
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Rosaria
Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly.
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Rosaria posted:
Since we don't have numbers yet at least in this thread, what are the stated goals?
- more competative?
- more fair?
- more in payments?
- maybe changes in how small businesses structure their federal taxes?
What are the stated goals for Obama's tax reform?
The general outline for the income portion of the reforms were in his budget proposal. The corp side was even more vague but the administration has been trying to sell the income tax side (which includes a massive increase in the taxation of capital gains) as part of a corp tax restructuring. One of the big topics that come up when talking about taxing dividends and capital gains in general is the idea that the gains were already taxed at the corp level. Because Obama is once again pushing Congress to make up their own minds he is not really leading on the issue. You can love or hate that approach I don't really care but that seems to be what he is doing here again.
There will always be talk of simplicity and fairness but I think the heart of the debate will actually be global competition. The dividend debate will get some press but hopefully they really look at our corporate tax structure in the context of global corp taxes. I don't think either side will shed the large number of credits that undermine the system but we will see.
How small businesses fit in with these reforms will be interesting to see but I tend to doubt that any large change will be made even if it has become more necessary. The Republicans will mention small businesses a bazillion times as they work really hard to protect the massively wealthy.
Small businesses are the drivers of our economy in terms of labor so I would hope they are mentioned, and planned for, and something equitable be reached concerning them. Nothing temporary, again, but something permanent.
I'm not sure I understand the rest of your answer because I thought he was focusing on individual/family taxes and not corporate, or did I misread/misunderstand you? I absolute agree that any corporate tax restructuring needs to be done within the context of a global economy and competativeness.
What about the average wage earner? What could they expect for themselves and their families from his tax proposals?
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Sin_of_Onin
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Rosaria posted:
Small businesses are the drivers of our economy in terms of labor so I would hope they are mentioned, and planned for, and something equitable be reached concerning them. Nothing temporary, again, but something permanent.
I'm not sure I understand the rest of your answer because I thought he was focusing on individual/family taxes and not corporate, or did I misread/misunderstand you? I absolute agree that any corporate tax restructuring needs to be done within the context of a global economy and competativeness.
What about the average wage earner? What could they expect for themselves and their families from his tax proposals?
I don't know if small business really drive the economy. Many are just along for the ride but whatever really.
He is proposing comprehensive tax reform which includes both income tax changes, mostly to capital gains related income and the Bush Tax cuts for the top 2%, and corp tax reform. He has not provided details with regard to the corp tax reforms but has Timmy out saying that if they raise taxes on capital gains and dividends then we might as well look at corp taxes.
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"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
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