Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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They are doing biometric screening at the office today.
Our insurance company hired a third party company to come and take basic health readings on everyone in the building - cholesterol counts, blood sugar, blood pressure, etc. The basic idea being that preventative care is cheaper for everyone - so they are forcing it on us.
Anyone unwilling to submit will pay $20 extra a week for insurance.
I am, of course, not participating. I think it's a terrible way to go about this and I'm done having my privacy invaded by these SOB's.
All the conference rooms in the building right now are packed with medical equipment. It's like a scene outta gattaca. 
(By contrast, the place I am going to work for has a similar program - but they offer employees $100 extra a quarter to participate in it. Participation also nets you some fringe benefits - like subsidizing gym memberships and athletic competitions.)
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Thugoneous
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When you leave can you tell us what Nazi's you work for so when I retire I can avoid working for that company?
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Clackdor
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Not sure why you are against this.
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Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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If you look for work in my area, hit me up. If it's my current company, I'll let you know.
Have I also mentioned we have random drug testing that screens for prescription medication? And if 'caught' with legally prescribed medication, you have to put the company in touch with the doctor so they can verify you have a medical condition that warrants being prescribed the meds?
Fwiw, you are being delusional if you think practices like this aren't going to start becoming the norm.
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First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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Clackdor posted:
Not sure why you are against this.
You aren't sure why I would object to being coerced into providing medical data directly to my insurance company and my employer?
Or you aren't sure why I would object to being forced to have my wife come in and provide the same data?
What about kids? That cool too?
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Aerlinthian
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An outcome of government interference into the market place.
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Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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SoBaKi
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Aerlinthian posted:
An outcome of government interference into the market place.
You're seriously retarded if you don't think that this is a profit/loss issue for an insurance company.
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Clackdor
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Taliesihne posted:
Clackdor posted:
Not sure why you are against this.
You aren't sure why I would object to being coerced into providing medical data directly to my insurance company and my employer?
Or you aren't sure why I would object to being forced to have my wife come in and provide the same data?
What about kids? That cool too?
Well, you are a Democrat so I thought you were for as much intrusion as possible into our private lives.
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If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
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Cawlin
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SoBaKi posted:
Aerlinthian posted:
An outcome of government interference into the market place.
You're seriously retarded if you don't think that this is a profit/loss issue for an insurance company.
Yeah, insurance companies are clearly hurting... their profit/loss situation is rather dire I'm sure.
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Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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ZOMG! GREAT ZING! 
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SoBaKi
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Cawlin posted:
SoBaKi posted:
Aerlinthian posted:
An outcome of government interference into the market place.
You're seriously retarded if you don't think that this is a profit/loss issue for an insurance company.
Yeah, insurance companies are clearly hurting... their profit/loss situation is rather dire I'm sure.
JFC, if an insurance company can increase their profit through the use of biometric screenings, don't you believe they would implement such a policy?
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Cawlin
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SoBaKi posted:
Cawlin posted:
SoBaKi posted:
You're seriously retarded if you don't think that this is a profit/loss issue for an insurance company.
Yeah, insurance companies are clearly hurting... their profit/loss situation is rather dire I'm sure.
JFC, if an insurance company can increase their profit through the use of biometric screenings, don't you believe they would implement such a policy?
What if they could increase their profit through requiring you to submit grocery receipts and with random stops at your home during meal time to make sure you're eating properly and not too much... in fact, maybe the government should get involved and make sure that grocery stores don't sell obese people too much food, there probably should be a voucher program or something for fatties, and people with other dietary issues... after all... it would increase insurance profits if they could just make sure we all lived their definition of a healthy lifestyle.
You are the kind of person I am talking about in this thread.
Just fkn think about it for a minute dude. The insurance company is also blackmailing people for an extra $1040/year for not submitting to the screening, meanwhile of course they're probably going to jack up the rates on everyone the screen too eventually - once they've weeded out all the non-compliant ones. Think about it. Where do you want to draw the line.
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Sansfear
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Don't blame the insurance company, blame the employer.
The insurance company offered the employer a discount if they did this, and the employer agreed to it.
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Cawlin
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Sansfear posted:
Don't blame the insurance company, blame the employer.
The insurance company offered the employer a discount if they did this, and the employer agreed to it.
Both parties are to blame.
The insurance company is extorting the company who is in turn extorting their employees. Typical "trickle down" model. Who do you think has a bigger lobby in Washington: Tali's company or the insurance company?
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Sin_of_Onin
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How is this not all on the medical side? The idea of drug tests where you have to submit information from one doctor to the next sounds insane.
We have to pay a fee for not getting check ups too.
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SoBaKi
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Cawlin posted:
What if they could increase their profit through requiring you to submit grocery receipts and with random stops at your home during meal time to make sure you're eating properly and not too much... in fact, maybe the government should get involved and make sure that grocery stores don't sell obese people too much food, there probably should be a voucher program or something for fatties, and people with other dietary issues... after all... it would increase insurance profits if they could just make sure we all lived their definition of a healthy lifestyle.
You are the kind of person I am talking about in this thread.
Just fkn think about it for a minute dude. The insurance company is also blackmailing people for an extra $1040/year for not submitting to the screening, meanwhile of course they're probably going to jack up the rates on everyone the screen too eventually - once they've weeded out all the non-compliant ones. Think about it. Where do you want to draw the line.
First, know that I'm not supprting this action, but I can think it through to understand WHY they're doing this action. Second, why are you making the leap (bolded) between corporation and government when we're discussing the reasoning behind an insurance company's decision to try and implement biometrics screening? This is a simple profit/loss decision by the insurance company. If they do this sort of preventive screening, they lower their costs and increase their profit. Why/how the Government was drawn into the discussion is boggling.
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Bobvillas
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My company does something similar.
It is not forced but they do give decent incentives.
If my wife and I both fill out the survey online we get $50 a piece.
If we continue with the program and set up a health regimen we each get another $75.
If we allow a nurse to give us a call and talk to us about the regimen we get another $75.
$400 for ~an hour of my time on the computer and a phone call.
They then raffle off x amount of ipad2 for completing the program.
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Cawlin
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SoBaKi posted:
Cawlin posted:
What if they could increase their profit through requiring you to submit grocery receipts and with random stops at your home during meal time to make sure you're eating properly and not too much... in fact, maybe the government should get involved and make sure that grocery stores don't sell obese people too much food, there probably should be a voucher program or something for fatties, and people with other dietary issues... after all... it would increase insurance profits if they could just make sure we all lived their definition of a healthy lifestyle.
You are the kind of person I am talking about in this thread.
Just fkn think about it for a minute dude. The insurance company is also blackmailing people for an extra $1040/year for not submitting to the screening, meanwhile of course they're probably going to jack up the rates on everyone the screen too eventually - once they've weeded out all the non-compliant ones. Think about it. Where do you want to draw the line.
First, know that I'm not supprting this action, but I can think it through to understand WHY they're doing this action. Second, why are you making the leap (bolded) between corporation and government when we're discussing the reasoning behind an insurance company's decision to try and implement biometrics screening? This is a simple profit/loss decision by the insurance company. If they do this sort of preventive screening, they lower their costs and increase their profit. Why/how the Government was drawn into the discussion is boggling.
The point is that it's extortionate and intrusive. The government is supposed to be "the law" that we rely on to protect us from this. The government is not, in fact the government is encouraging it. That's the issue and that's why this is terrible.
I can understand why the insurance company is doing this, but it doesn't make it right and it CERTAINLY doesn't make it necessary for the insurance company's survival - if the insurer is in that bad of a financial situation, it's not because they have a few fatties covered, it's because they're grossly mismanaging their guaranteed gold-mine business.
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SoBaKi
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Cawlin posted:
SoBaKi posted:
Cawlin posted:
What if they could increase their profit through requiring you to submit grocery receipts and with random stops at your home during meal time to make sure you're eating properly and not too much... in fact, maybe the government should get involved and make sure that grocery stores don't sell obese people too much food, there probably should be a voucher program or something for fatties, and people with other dietary issues... after all... it would increase insurance profits if they could just make sure we all lived their definition of a healthy lifestyle.
You are the kind of person I am talking about in this thread.
Just fkn think about it for a minute dude. The insurance company is also blackmailing people for an extra $1040/year for not submitting to the screening, meanwhile of course they're probably going to jack up the rates on everyone the screen too eventually - once they've weeded out all the non-compliant ones. Think about it. Where do you want to draw the line.
First, know that I'm not supprting this action, but I can think it through to understand WHY they're doing this action. Second, why are you making the leap (bolded) between corporation and government when we're discussing the reasoning behind an insurance company's decision to try and implement biometrics screening? This is a simple profit/loss decision by the insurance company. If they do this sort of preventive screening, they lower their costs and increase their profit. Why/how the Government was drawn into the discussion is boggling.
The point is that it's extortionate and intrusive. The government is supposed to be "the law" that we rely on to protect us from this. The government is not, in fact the government is encouraging it. That's the issue and that's why this is terrible.
I can understand why the insurance company is doing this, but it doesn't make it right and it CERTAINLY doesn't make it necessary for the insurance company's survival - if the insurer is in that bad of a financial situation, it's not because they have a few fatties covered, it's because they're grossly mismanaging their guaranteed gold-mine business.
Didn't you also just create a thread railing against government intervention? Couldn't the answer be to find another employer who doesn't support this sort of thing?
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Cawlin
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SoBaKi posted:
Cawlin posted:
The point is that it's extortionate and intrusive. The government is supposed to be "the law" that we rely on to protect us from this. The government is not, in fact the government is encouraging it. That's the issue and that's why this is terrible.
I can understand why the insurance company is doing this, but it doesn't make it right and it CERTAINLY doesn't make it necessary for the insurance company's survival - if the insurer is in that bad of a financial situation, it's not because they have a few fatties covered, it's because they're grossly mismanaging their guaranteed gold-mine business.
Didn't you also just create a thread railing against government intervention? Couldn't the answer be to find another employer who doesn't support this sort of thing?
Government upholding laws and rights of privacy and rights of people not to suffer extortionate business practices is not intervention - that's part of their job - to serve the people.
Certainly an answer could be to find another employer. The same could be said for an employee who finds themselves so-called "discriminated" against, but the government intervenes there on their behalf...
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
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Bowlartz
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Does it benefit the insurance company? Sure.
It benefits the employer and consequently the employee more.
If your employer gets a benefit in the way of a discount or by way of not reducing your benefits for the same cost then you benefit.
Why should the healthy employees at your place of work have to subsidize the fatties and those who chose to life an unhealthy life? It isn't mandatory so quit crying. Even if it becomes mandatory you can quit.
I am so freaking tired of having my insurance costs go up year over year and watching the same 20 or so slobs going to the doctor 10+ times a year and stuffing down all kinds of expensive drugs along with their cheetos, coke and snack cakes.
We started a different version of this where I work. They will pay for you to go to the company fitness center (and use it at least 90 times a year) in the form of no fee to use it (it is state of the art and cost millions to build) as well as 10% off insurance premiums. If you participate in two of their more rigorous health programs at the fitness center it goes to 20%. All of the fat slobs got up in arms because there was no way to earn a discount that didn't involve...actually reducing your risk of health problems. At least one lady who can barely stand she is so fat said she was considering a discrimination lawsuit.
I fully support voluntary biometric testing and benefits. Hell I support private businesses making it mandatory like not hiring smokers.
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Cawlin
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Bowlartz, your insurance company is still making money I am sure. In fact, I'm willing to bet that your insurance company is still a good solid investment if they're publicly traded.
I get your chagrin over the insurance company increasing costs, but the few fatties in your company aren't the cause of that. Greed is the cause of that, plain and simple.
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Moe_Nox
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Bowlartz posted:
Hell I support private businesses making it mandatory like not hiring smokers.
Dumb
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Taliesihne
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
How is this not all on the medical side? The idea of drug tests where you have to submit information from one doctor to the next sounds insane.
We have to pay a fee for not getting check ups too.
What do you mean by 'medical side'?
With our company at least, you go to a independent screening company, they take the urinalysis, if there are issues HR is contacted and told that the screening company needs to talk to the person under 'test'. The person under test has to provide the prescribing doctors name and a release to talk about the medical condition that necessitates the prescription to the independent company. The testing company then contacts the doctor and confirms they prescribed it and why.
The way the company handbook is written, the medications they could be looking for is huge. The intent is that they are looking for codeine and benzo abusers, but with the language in our handbook - mood altering drugs, MAO inhibitors, SSRI's, muscle relaxers, etc. are all realistically on the table as well.
It's hugely invasive. Bear in mind I sit at a computer desk all day as well - I never operate company vehicles or heavy machinery.
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Scarne
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I suppose the government could get rid of the tax incentives that make it beneficial for health insurance to be provided through your employer. Clearly that is what is distorting the market here! 
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imaloon1
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No the fact that insurance is mandated by law means the insurance companies already have all the legislation they need to squeeze every last penny out of you.
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illmyrin
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SoBaKi posted:
Aerlinthian posted:
An outcome of government interference into the market place.
You're seriously retarded if you don't think that this is a profit/loss issue for an insurance company.
Oh it's much more than that SoBaki. But don't worry, you're not retarded because you don't know more about it, you're normal.
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AzureTyger
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Aerlinthian posted:
An outcome of government interference into the market place.
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illmyrin
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I don't understand what's crazy about that statement.. Healthcare became a mandate. Healthcare providers can do whatever they want now. Including black list you from employment in any company they do business with because of your risk assessment..
Government interfered in a free market system that required providers to sell themselves where now they get to pick and choose because WE HAVE TO USE THEM.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Taliesihne posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
How is this not all on the medical side? The idea of drug tests where you have to submit information from one doctor to the next sounds insane.
We have to pay a fee for not getting check ups too.
What do you mean by 'medical side'?
With our company at least, you go to a independent screening company, they take the urinalysis, if there are issues HR is contacted and told that the screening company needs to talk to the person under 'test'. The person under test has to provide the prescribing doctors name and a release to talk about the medical condition that necessitates the prescription to the independent company. The testing company then contacts the doctor and confirms they prescribed it and why.
The way the company handbook is written, the medications they could be looking for is huge. The intent is that they are looking for codeine and benzo abusers, but with the language in our handbook - mood altering drugs, MAO inhibitors, SSRI's, muscle relaxers, etc. are all realistically on the table as well.
It's hugely invasive. Bear in mind I sit at a computer desk all day as well - I never operate company vehicles or heavy machinery.
Why would HR ever be contacted? They seem to be mixing prevenative medicine initiatives (that are good IMO) with drug screening.
I have no problem peeing in a cup to give my doctor information about my health. The idea that my doctor would then call my HR department is ridiculous. The plans that have people pay less if they get regular check ups is great and I hope it works. It is a vastly different issue than the drug tests you are talking about.
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Scarne
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illmyrin posted:
I don't understand what's crazy about that statement.. Healthcare became a mandate. Healthcare providers can do whatever they want now. Including black list you from employment in any company they do business with because of your risk assessment..
Government interfered in a free market system that required providers to sell themselves where now they get to pick and choose because WE HAVE TO USE THEM.
This stuff was well on the way of being implemented before ObamaCare was passed.
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theredkay1
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Creating incentives for these kinds of regular checkups/tests is a good idea. Good for your health, good for everyones pocketbook.
The problem is will your employer fire you if they figure out you are an unhealthy drain on company resources. Im surprised this isnt a HIPAA violation....it seems to violate the spirit of that law.
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Eager_Igraine
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There seems to be a difference between a plan that encourages participation with bonuses vs. a plan that penalizes non-participation with fines. I am also not a fan of dealing with random drug screenings and medical evaluations. If companies want to have them, that's cool - I'll work somewhere else.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Eager_Igraine posted:
There seems to be a difference between a plan that encourages participation with bonuses vs. a plan that penalizes non-participation with fines. I am also not a fan of dealing with random drug screenings and medical evaluations. If companies want to have them, that's cool - I'll work somewhere else.
The ones I have seen tend to have a penalty/reward of around 100 to 150 a year based on going to a regular check up (which is determined based on your age). The idea of punishing every possible thing seems stupid.
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eodoll
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We have that too but what they give you is some flex spending cash for healthcare.
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Taliesihne
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Why would HR ever be contacted? They seem to be mixing prevenative medicine initiatives (that are good IMO) with drug screening.
I'm not sure why. Just know that's the way it is.
Sin_of_Onin posted:
I have no problem peeing in a cup to give my doctor information about my health. The idea that my doctor would then call my HR department is ridiculous. The plans that have people pay less if they get regular check ups is great and I hope it works. It is a vastly different issue than the drug tests you are talking about.
I don't really have a problem with it either.
But peeing in the cup of my Company's doctor and sharing the information with them - different issue.
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Nestor_II
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Look at the screening this way, You work for a company and have no health problems, then along comes this screening and they find out that You have cancer. Well Your bosses will know and seeing this as hit to their already high insurance bill, decide to either fire you or make you quit so they don't have to pay. And we all know what happens when the company insurance has to pay out a large claim, they pay it and drop the employer from their rolls.
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Sin_of_Onin
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The idea that a company has to worry about the health of their employees because it will mean higher insurance costs is mad. They have to worry about investing in an employee that is sick but it shouldn't change their insurance costs.
Our entire system is broken.
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Elkad
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The government won't let employers charge different premiums to different employees based on health/age. So of course they are trying to screen employees. Ones that cost extra will find themselves filing discrimination lawsuits in a few years, after getting passed up for promotions, laid off first, etc..
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Urk_VN
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Interesting topic, and I can sort of see why there are pros and cons to this.
The pro is that it'll help save on medical costs in the long run, as healthy people are less likely to file claims, meaning it'll save the insurance companies on having to pay out money. If they offer incentives to the employee, then it'll be good for them as well, since being healthy usually = less time being sick, and if they have to pay less, then all the better (assuming the insurance company doesn't jack everyone's rates up of course, which they probably will).
The con is that this will either directly or indirectly cause a lot of invasion of privacy. If you're not living a healthy lifestyle, this will sort of force you into doing it. Yes, you could probably eat less twinkies and exercise more, but I'd imagine they'll go after smokers big time for stuff like this (Insurance company: "Smoking causes lung cancer, which means we don't want to pay for your lifestyle decision!"), and may eventually also target alcohol drinkers as well (for you know, when that drunk driver hits you while you were jogging, and now you need to visit the hospital).
And what about people with pre-existing conditions, such as being born with auto-immune hepatitis, or fibromyalgia, or sickle cell disease? Will insurance companies make some kind of excuse up to not cover those types of people, or raise their rates exponentially?
While some people may be fine with it, I'm guessing not a lot of people will be comfortable with the insurance company and/or the government forcing them to change their way of life/diet permanently.
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sweeny_comodore
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Elkad posted:
The government won't let employers charge different premiums to different employees based on health/age. So of course they are trying to screen employees. Ones that cost extra will find themselves filing discrimination lawsuits in a few years, after getting passed up for promotions, laid off first, etc..
this has already been happening for many years.
weve had a couple employees let go for being unhealthy and pushing insurance costs up.
one of the insurance people even told one of the owners that it would probably cost less if these few people werent working here....
this was long before anyone even knew who obama was.
and our insurance still increased after the faulty parties were fired for unrelated reasons.
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Eager_Igraine
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
The idea that a company has to worry about the health of their employees because it will mean higher insurance costs is mad. They have to worry about investing in an employee that is sick but it shouldn't change their insurance costs.
Our entire system is broken.
If only there was some way to take health care costs out of the employer/employee equation...
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Sin_of_Onin
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Eager_Igraine posted:
If only there was some way to take health care costs out of the employer/employee equation...
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