Corky_Aloof posted:

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The man is a mighty Jedi.

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__Bonk__ posted:

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They arnt Christians. Nothing wrong with saying that because its true

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BubbleDude posted:

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__Bonk__ posted:

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They arnt Christians. Nothing wrong with saying that because its true

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After about three minutes of reading, I can say that Mormons are Christian, and you're either trolling or an idiot.

I'm seriously torn between the two.

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Bowlartz posted:

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They can call themselves whatever they want I certainly don't care. The fact is their religion is based on one of the biggest blasphemes you can commit with their Book of Mormon.

They are as much Christian as those who practice Santeria.

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eodoll posted:

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In my opinion, catholicism is also not really christian eithr...they call themselves catholic obviously instead of christian.

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eodoll posted:

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The further you get from the original the less christian you are. Its like saying english is latin.

Mormons and catholics are rooted in christianity but they have mutated it quite a bit and made it something different.

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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Mormons will be the first to tell you they aren't Christians. Their religion contradicts with Christianity in many ways, specially the part where Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.

I've been told by missionarys that I'm gonna go to hell even if I followed the Christian doctrine to the letter. They told me that it wasn't enough that Jesus died for my sins, I had to be baptized in their church or im gonna burn fer sure.

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ZigmundZag posted:

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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Mormons will be the first to tell you they aren't Christians. Their religion contradicts with Christianity in many ways, specially the part where Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.

I've been told by missionarys that I'm gonna go to hell even if I followed the Christian doctrine to the letter. They told me that it wasn't enough that Jesus died for my sins, I had to be baptized in their church or im gonna burn fer sure.

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The Mormons you've met were idiots or were screwing with you, then. They don't even believe in a traditional hell.

I know many Mormons and not a one of them has ever said they think they're anything other than Christian.

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eodoll posted:

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There was just christian at around the year 300.. Then the churche broke.

One remained christian and the other church formed catholics. From then on christianity started forming a bunch of diversions and craziness.. Priest marriage rules, war structure, kingdoms, thousands of saints, purgatory, exorcism, etc... All this weird crap that was not in the one and only christian church.

So call them bible worhippers but not true christians. The ethiopian church, apostolic church, coptic and even orthodox christians adhere more to the original verion of christianity.

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Taliesihne posted:

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I'm always generally stunned at the lack of knowledge people have about the history of the church. And I am by no means a Theologian.

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eodoll posted:

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Youre wrong, mormons do not recognize non mormon baptism (and vice versa).

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Taliesihne posted:

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eodoll posted:

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There was just christian at around the year 300.. Then the churche broke.

One remained christian and the other church formed catholics. From then on christianity started forming a bunch of diversions and craziness.. Priest marriage rules, war structure, kingdoms, thousands of saints, purgatory, exorcism, etc... All this weird crap that was not in the one and only christian church.

So call them bible worhippers but not true christians. The ethiopian church, apostolic church, coptic and even orthodox christians adhere more to the original verion of christianity.

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The Catholic Church was formed while Jesus was still alive.

The Confession of Peter (which is talked about in Matthew, Mark, and Luke) is considered the origin and the founding of the Catholic Church.

Even with that said, there was no formal Christian Church before 300. They were generally parts of the jewish community before that.

Anyway you really want to look at this, Catholicism and the genesis of Christianity go hand in hand.

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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Mormons will be the first to tell you they aren't Christians.

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Taliesihne posted:

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The Catholic Church was formed while Jesus was still alive.

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eodoll posted:

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Even the image of jesus catholics hold dear is invented by them based on a european male model of the time.

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Sinlock posted:

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Taliesihne posted:

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The Catholic Church was formed while Jesus was still alive.

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According to the Catholic Church, that is; however, they're not a very reliable source of historical happenings.

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DemonicXH posted:

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It's an Abrahamic religion, just like Judaism and Islam. They all believe in the same God and are monotheistic. Each has different doctrines and practices, which separates them.

Hence if they are not a follower of Judaism or Islam, then - gasp! they are Christians.


Get over it and move on. It's just rhetoric to say otherwise. Typical "mine is better, yours is wrong" kindergarten bullshit.

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Crackdoc posted:

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Christian is better used a cover-word for anyone that sees Jesus as the son-of-God and a deity.

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Taliesihne posted:

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Eo, you do realize that you are arguing that Orthodox religions are the only Christian religions there are right?

It's preposterous.

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DemonicXH posted:

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It's an Abrahamic religion, just like Judaism and Islam. They all believe in the same God and are monotheistic.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Taliesihne posted:

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Eo, you do realize that you are arguing that Orthodox religions are the only Christian religions there are right?
It's preposterous.

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It's just taking the same line of stupid its its logical conclusion. If Mormons arn't "real" Christians neither are 90% of American Christians.

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Ashmaele posted:

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DemonicXH posted:

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It's an Abrahamic religion, just like Judaism and Islam. They all believe in the same God and are monotheistic.

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Except that christians are not monotheistic, unless you do not consider Jesus to be anything more than human.

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DemonicXH posted:

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Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God and their Messiah.

Not God.

Good try though.

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DemonicXH posted:

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Ashmaele posted:

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DemonicXH posted:

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It's an Abrahamic religion, just like Judaism and Islam. They all believe in the same God and are monotheistic.

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Except that christians are not monotheistic, unless you do not consider Jesus to be anything more than human.

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Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God and their Messiah.

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_Enkidu_ posted:

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More craziness ensues as religion debates whether 3=1 or 3=3.

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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:

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DemonicXH posted:

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Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God and their Messiah.

Not God.

Good try though.

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Catholics believe in one God, in three Persons... father, son, and holy ghost. The Trinity. You may have heard of it? It's gotten a little press the last, oh, two thousand years or so.

Unless, of course, again, by some odd country club exclusivity definition Catholics are not "Christian"...

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Ashmaele posted:

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So Jesus was just a regular dude? Or is he divine? What about the angels? What about Satan? When Christian pastors and priest say stuff like, "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit" are they just kidding?

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DemonicXH posted:

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I know all about the trinity, I was raised Catholic. I was taught aka force-fed all about the Holy Trinity. Not once was there mention that Jesus = God.

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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:

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DemonicXH posted:

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I know all about the trinity, I was raised Catholic. I was taught aka force-fed all about the Holy Trinity. Not once was there mention that Jesus = God.

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Then you weren't really raised Catholic, because that is THE fundamental mystery of the faith. 3 Beings. One God.

I was raised Catholic. I think I ran across that for the first of about 1,500 times when I was six. Maybe seven. And I moved around to about 12 churches and heard it in each and every single one, so...

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Ptilk posted:

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As much as I hate organized religion, I'm in awe at the good people who are part of it and what they do.

If only all religious people put their faith to work like it demands, I would almost be tempted to believe in their crap.

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DemonicXH posted:

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I was never taught that Jesus himself was God. He had divinity but that does not make him God.

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24. Is there only one God?
Yes, there is only one God.

I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God besides me. (Isaiah 45:5)

25. How many Persons are there in God?
In God there are three Divine Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

26. Is the Father God?
The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (I Corinthians 1:3)

27. Is the Son God?
The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

28. Is the Holy Ghost God?
The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (I Corinthians 3:16)

29. What do we mean by the Blessed Trinity?
By the Blessed Trinity we mean, one and the same God in three Divine Persons.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)

30. Are the three Divine Persons really distinct from one another?
The three Divine Persons are really distinct from one another.

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: "Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased." (Luke 3:22)

31. Are the three Divine Persons perfectly equal to one another?
The three Divine Persons are perfectly equal to one another, because all are one and the same God.

I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)

32. How are the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, one and the same God?
The three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because all have one and the same Divine nature.

33. Can we fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God?
We cannot fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because this is a supernatural mystery.

34. What is a supernatural mystery?
A supernatural mystery is a truth which we cannot fully understand, but which we firmly believe because we have God's word for it.

Groucho48 posted:

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Don't they use the Baltimore Catechism anymore? You kids...

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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Holy crap guys this isn't that hard to prove. You do know that Mormons believe that there are other gods, yes? They also believe they become the same as God and become gods of their own planets. They are pagans. Their gospel denies the power of the cross and claims that if someone dies fully in their sin they can 'save' them by having a baptism of the dead done for them. The mormon church is not christianity. Sometimes people who love Christ remain ignorant of the real doctrine and do in fact love the real Jesus but when you go into their theology they are nothing but pagans. Their book is false and their leader a false prophet.

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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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Holy crap guys this isn't that hard to prove. You do know that Mormons believe that there are other gods, yes? They also believe they become the same as God and become gods of their own planets. They are pagans. Their gospel denies the power of the cross and claims that if someone dies fully in their sin they can 'save' them by having a baptism of the dead done for them. The mormon church is not christianity. Sometimes people who love Christ remain ignorant of the real doctrine and do in fact love the real Jesus but when you go into their theology they are nothing but pagans. Their book is false and their leader a false prophet.

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And how does any of that particular creed rank as the more important deciding factor over the ones they themselves have said are the important factors?

On what authority?

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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Christian beliefs derive from the Bible which denies the fact that there are other gods

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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First Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus

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Psalm 82:1-2 posted:

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God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked?

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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Christian beliefs derive from the Bible which denies the fact that there are other gods

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Is this really true?

The old testament seems to indicate otherwise. And the new testament doesn't really seem definitive on the subject. It's clear the thrust of the bible is that God is the only God we should care about. But that's no different than what Mormons say really.

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Old Testament posted:

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Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deuteronomy 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]

Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

2 KINGS 5:15 — And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

1 Chronicles 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Psalm 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

Isaiah 37:16,20 — O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.

Isaiah 43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

Isaiah 44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

Hosea 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.

Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Zechariah 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

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New Testament posted:

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Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Romans 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Galatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

Ephesians 4:6 — One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Timothy 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 2:5 — For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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Their gospel denies the power of the cross and claims that if someone dies fully in their sin they can 'save' them by having a baptism of the dead done for them.

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I Corinthians 15:29 posted:

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"Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"

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Bobvillas posted:

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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Their gospel denies the power of the cross and claims that if someone dies fully in their sin they can 'save' them by having a baptism of the dead done for them.

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I Corinthians 15:29 posted:

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"Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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So I take it you don't understand the context of that scripture at all, and neither do the Mormons or else they wouldn't have made an entire doctrine erroneously out of one misunderstood verse.

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Bobvillas posted:

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Joel Scott Osteen is an American author, televangelist, and the senior pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. His ministry reaches over seven million broadcast media viewers weekly in over 100 nations around the world.

Joel stated:

“I believe that [Mormons] are Christians,”

I don't know how your church works but I am guessing he is somehow above your paygrade.

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Bobvillas posted:

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This is the problem.

They cannot understand that posting links to people that have opinions as if they are fact is not an argument. We call that anecdotal evidence.

It is a broken argument from the beginning.

People from your own demonination that are "leaders" are saying they are Christians.

But I am sure you will disparage him as well as he must be a heretic.

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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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So I take it you don't understand the context of that scripture at all, and neither do the Mormons or else they wouldn't have made an entire doctrine erroneously out of one misunderstood verse.

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Interesting that 'your' interpretation is 'right' and theirs is 'erroneous.'



Still... I notice NONE of this drivel the last 10 replies or so counters my statement. Because, well, it really can't be countered.

They believe in Jesus Christ as their savior. The end.

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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It is easily countered. Belief alone is not a sufficient qualification, because the Greek word for believe is more than just mental assent. Belief is an action word that includes the notion of obedience. So I would bet that that most Christians are not Christians or disciples of Christ, and their Belief in Jesus Christ is metely cultural, traditional, or mental belief.

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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Bobvillas posted:

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Joel Scott Osteen is an American author, televangelist, and the senior pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. His ministry reaches over seven million broadcast media viewers weekly in over 100 nations around the world.

Joel stated:

“I believe that [Mormons] are Christians,”

I don't know how your church works but I am guessing he is somehow above your paygrade.

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You do know that Joel Osteen is about the worst example you could have picked to argue from authority, right? He is more a motivational speaker than a minister, let alone a Biblical scholar.

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Bobvillas posted:

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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Bobvillas posted:

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Joel Scott Osteen is an American author, televangelist, and the senior pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. His ministry reaches over seven million broadcast media viewers weekly in over 100 nations around the world.

Joel stated:

“I believe that [Mormons] are Christians,”

I don't know how your church works but I am guessing he is somehow above your paygrade.

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You do know that Joel Osteen is about the worst example you could have picked to argue from authority, right? He is more a motivational speaker than a minister, let alone a Biblical scholar.

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So now the millions that go to his church and view his broadcast are really just listening to a motivational speaker.

You however, are the self appointed Christian Membership Card passer outer.

You know that according to the Atlas of Global Christianity Mormons are Christians.

I wonder if there are any biblical scholars that helped with that.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen posted:

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Education

It has been widely reported that Osteen attended Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for a two year period without receiving a degree.[citation needed] Likewise, it has been reported that he has no higher level training in religious matters or Bible studies.[citation needed] In an appearance on Piers Morgan Tonight in January, 2011, Osteen mentioned that he had never attended seminary.[17]
Preaching style

On the December 23, 2007, edition of Fox News Sunday, host Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday brought up Osteen's lack of Scripture reference in his sermons, as well as his hesitancy to discuss sin as an integral part of life. Osteen responded: "And I am ultimately trying to do that, but I'm trying to teach people how to live their everyday lives, and so I do focus on it, probably not as much as some people would like."[18] Osteen says that he chooses to focus on the goodness of God rather than sin.[19] Osteen explains that he tries to teach Biblical principles in a simple way, emphasizing the power of love and a positive attitude.[20]

Osteen's sermons and writings are sometimes reproached for their use of the concepts of prosperity theology, or the prosperity gospel, a belief that wealth and power are rewards for pious Christians.[21]

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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So he has no education or training and preaches something easily palatable to the masses? Sounds like an expert to me!

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eodoll posted:

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Mayb if you really dumb it down to the Council of Nicea you can say Jesus = God...

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Most of the verses don't say what you think the say Eithne. Most of them are talking about how you should only believe in God because he's the true god, the wise god, whatever. It doesn't really say that other gods don't exist, just that God doesn't want you to believe in them because they're inferior and salvation lies through belief in him and not in them.

In terms of the old testament, it seems like the names of the other gods got scrubbed out at some point. Although there are still refences to them here and there left over. Early judaism probably acknowledged other gods as well - hence the have no other gods before me language - even if they were inferior to Yahweh and at some point Yahweh got jealous and took over completely.

What the morons (haha, oops, freudian slip) believe about the existence of other gods doens't seem any more radical than christians who think non-christians might not all go to hell. Are those people not christians either for believing maybe god doesn't cause everyone who doesn't believe in him to burn in hell forever?

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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and that's what the other "gods" such as Baal were regarded as - idols, things that were not deserving of worship and not even remotely on par with YHWH.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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and that's what the other "gods" such as Baal were regarded as - idols, things that were not deserving of worship and not even remotely on par with YHWH.

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So basically we're on the same page that the bible seems to contemplate the existance of other supernatural beings worshipped by humans. You seem to be setting a lot of store over one group of christians calling them gods that shouldn't be worshipped and another group of christians calling them false gods that shouldn't be worshipped.

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Remnant_OBrien posted:

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Yeah before Judaism people just used to worship statues, because they weren't able to grasp the metaphorical concept of a god being worshipped through holy symbol. Jews invented the skybeing immaterial God. If only primitive peoples had a DnD manual to explain the concept of holy symbols!

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Not really. The other gods the mormons talk about are clearly inferior to yahweh too. So I think you are still reaching pretty far for a distinction that really doesn't matter.

Your "christians": some people worship other gods but they arn't anything near as good as Yahweh and you have to believe in Yahweh to be saved.

Mormons: There are other gods out there but they arn't as important as Yahweh and you have to worship Yahweh to be saved.

Eithne: OMG SO DIFFERENT!

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Remnant_OBrien posted:

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I don't think he's arguing that Mormon's aren't different. He's arguing that Mormon's position is coherent with the Torah.

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ineenia posted:

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Mormons are polytheistic Christianity is monotheistic.Mormons believe that everybody that has lead a good life will become a god himself.That is completely incompatible with Christianity's belief in the "One God".

Edit:OOPs already covered.

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ZigmundZag posted:

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ineenia posted:

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Mormons are polytheistic Christianity is monotheistic.Mormons believe that everybody that has lead a good life will become a god himself.That is completely incompatible with Christianity's belief in the "One God".

Edit:OOPs already covered.

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Negative. They still consider God to be the Almighty. It's incongruous, but no more so than saying 3 beings = 1 God, to be honest.

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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The Torah doesn't teach that there are many gods and that YHWH is the only one that should be worshiped...it teaches that there are no other gods besides YHWH period, and anyone who believes there are is deceived and an idolater.

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_Enkidu_ posted:

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Love how people defending their take on religion refer to other people's takes on religion as "dumbed down."

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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They can call themselves apostles, disciples, Christians, believers, etc. It doesn't matter, it doesn't mean they really are.

Matthew 7 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me you who practice lawlessness".

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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They can call themselves apostles, disciples, Christians, believers, etc. It doesn't matter, it doesn't mean they really are.

Matthew 7 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

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__Bonk__ posted:

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I still a Christian but I'm a liberal one and I'm too lazy to attend church regularly. If my girlfriend does I will be happy to go with her though

Missionarys are very brave people. VERY BRAVE

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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They can call themselves apostles, disciples, Christians, believers, etc. It doesn't matter, it doesn't mean they really are.

Matthew 7 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me you who practice lawlessness".

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Eithne_Boadicea posted:

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Well shucks, if someone saying it makes it true, then I guess it must be! If Mormons think they're Christian, it doesn't matter what the rest of the Christians in the world think. By that logic you could call Branch Davidians (hi2u Waco) Christians, too, or Moonies, Aryan Nations (part of what is called the Christian Identity Movement) or Jehovah's Witnesses. Case closed. /slams gavel

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eodoll posted:

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Sorry - not christian. Youre going to hell.

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Bobvillas posted:

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eodoll posted:

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Sorry - not christian. Youre going to hell.

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I hope I get a window seat!

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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A better question thatn asking if Mormon's are Christian is asking whether or not they follow the path of Christ? Do they follow the golden rule?

People caught up on theology and the interpretation of specific lines in the Bible are missing the point.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Well obviously.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Well obviously.

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It is the obvious part that makes it the most annoying.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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I guess. It's just people being people.

I agree whether or not a specific denomination is christian or not shouldn't be a very important question. But it clearly is to some people.

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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:

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Identity Politics 101: "Pigeonholing for Pigeons"

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Eager_Igraine posted:

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This thread again?

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Taliesihne posted:

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At least it isn't an abortion debate.

Yet

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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:

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Try to keep up. I covered that pages ago under "salvation by faith alone", versus "faith plus works". As already stated, sects who are CLEARLY Christian by any realistic definition disagree on that one... Mormonism notwithstanding.

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sweeny_comodore posted:

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Jesus never called himself the son of god.
That is a catholic creation at the council of nice.
jesus claimed to be the son of man.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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I guess. It's just people being people.

I agree whether or not a specific denomination is christian or not shouldn't be a very important question. But it clearly is to some people.

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Being atheist is also very important to people like Enk.

/boggle

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Snarf_Igraine posted:

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This is even stated as such by the high prophet himself, Gordon Hinkley who stated, "The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak."

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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:

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It's amazing how so many religious people will twist and writhe to try and rationalize their ownership, stake or claim to a label. Or deny someone else's "right" to one.

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SoBaKi posted:

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And why would you think that is? Could it be that if that is an identifiable position from the get go, it easier to use logic and common sense to solve problems?

If/when the first words out of someone's mouth are "God says so....", negotiations or compromise have become null and void.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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SoBaKi posted:

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And why would you think that is? Could it be that if that is an identifiable position from the get go, it easier to use logic and common sense to solve problems?

If/when the first words out of someone's mouth are "God says so....", negotiations or compromise have become null and void.

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What a bunch of incomprehensible arrgglllbaargl.

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