Fallen_daemon
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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It is a well-known fact that children from affluent families tend to do better in school. Yet the income divide has received far less attention from policy makers and government officials than gaps in student accomplishment by race.
Now, in analyses of long-term data published in recent months, researchers are finding that while the achievement gap between white and black students has narrowed significantly over the past few decades, the gap between rich and poor students has grown substantially during the same period.
“We have moved from a society in the 1950s and 1960s, in which race was more consequential than family income, to one today in which family income appears more
determinative of educational success than race,†said Sean F. Reardon, a Stanford University sociologist. Professor Reardon is the author of a study that found that the gap in standardized test scores between affluent and low-income students had grown by about 40 percent since the 1960s, and is now double the testing gap between blacks and whites.
In another study, by researchers from the University of Michigan, the imbalance between rich and poor children in college completion — the single most important predictor of success in the work force — has grown by about 50 percent since the late 1980s.
The changes are tectonic, a result of social and economic processes unfolding over many decades. The data from most of these studies end in 2007 and 2008, before the recession’s full impact was felt. Researchers said that based on experiences during past recessions, the recent downturn was likely to have aggravated the trend.
“With income declines more severe in the lower brackets, there’s a good chance the recession may have widened the gap,†Professor Reardon said. In the study he led, researchers analyzed 12 sets of standardized test scores starting in 1960 and ending in 2007. He compared children from families in the 90th percentile of income — the equivalent of around $160,000 in 2008, when the study was conducted — and children from the 10th percentile, $17,500 in 2008. By the end of that period, the achievement gap by income had grown by 40 percent, he said, while the gap between white and black students, regardless of income, had shrunk substantially.
Both studies were first published last fall in a book of research, “Whither Opportunity?†compiled by the Russell Sage Foundation, a research center for social sciences, and the Spencer Foundation, which focuses on education. Their conclusions, while familiar to a small core of social sciences scholars, are now catching the attention of a broader audience, in part because income inequality has been a central theme this election season.
The connection between income inequality among parents and the social mobility of their children has been a focus of President Obama as well as some of the Republican presidential candidates.
One reason for the growing gap in achievement, researchers say, could be that wealthy parents invest more time and money than ever before in their children (in weekend sports, ballet, music lessons, math tutors, and in overall involvement in their children’s schools), while lower-income families, which are now more likely than ever to be headed by a single parent, are increasingly stretched for time and resources. This has been particularly true as more parents try to position their children for college, which has become ever more essential for success in today’s economy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/education/education-gap-grows-between-rich-and-poor-studies-show.html?_r=1&hp
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winga
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Yes
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regulator_cracka
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Depends.
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Sith_Mauler
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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cant just blame it on income level, you can blame it on the failed welfare system that many states make a profit off.
what am I speaking off, well since the feds pushed the administration of welfare food stamps and other safety net programs down to state, it creates incentive for state departments to get as many cases as the can. why because for every new file a case worker opens the state receives xx mount of federal dollars to administer the program.
its common for school counselors to tell teen girls that get pregnant to drop out and we will sign you up for public housing welfare foodstamps etc....
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JD_HOGG
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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The affluent understand that you can make more money with your brain than you can with your brawn, so they tend to demand academic excellence with their children.
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purplehugmonkey
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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First of all, the children obviously have no control over their economic situation, stupid or not. Are their parents poor because they are stupid? Sometimes, probably. Stupid, lazy, uneducated, poor choices, certainly those things are a factor.
Why the growing gap? I would say that there has been a further decline in the overall effectiveness of public education, as well as a correspondingly growing gap between public school quality in affluent areas vs. in poor areas. I'm assuming that the wealthy children being tested are also public school educated, but if not obviously private schools vs. public there has always been a big gap.
Also if you want to point to things that kids may be doing instead of learning that has arisen over this time period, I think you have to consider computer use and the internet as a recreational activity. Way more kids spend their time on facebook and other activities like that, particularly since this is something low-income families are more likely to be able to afford vs. other activities and they tend to have a lot less supervision to limit that time.
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Fallen_daemon
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Sith_Mauler posted:
cant just blame it on income level, you can blame it on the failed welfare system that many states make a profit off.
what am I speaking off, well since the feds pushed the administration of welfare food stamps and other safety net programs down to state, it creates incentive for state departments to get as many cases as the can. why because for every new file a case worker opens the state receives xx mount of federal dollars to administer the program.
its common for school counselors to tell teen girls that get pregnant to drop out and we will sign you up for public housing welfare foodstamps etc....
no body tells dumb ass !@#$ to get pregnant, they are stupid to get pregnant in the first place. how stupid can people be?
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levgre
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Sith_Mauler posted:
cant just blame it on income level, you can blame it on the failed welfare system that many states make a profit off.
what am I speaking off, well since the feds pushed the administration of welfare food stamps and other safety net programs down to state, it creates incentive for state departments to get as many cases as the can. why because for every new file a case worker opens the state receives xx mount of federal dollars to administer the program.
its common for school counselors to tell teen girls that get pregnant to drop out and we will sign you up for public housing welfare foodstamps etc....
Always great to have internet experts with no real knowledge of the fields talking out of their ass
As to the gap, I think the trend likely doesn't show a growing inequality, in the 1950s/60s poverty may have even been a larger issue.
But higher education is a much larger goal now than then back then. The wealthy are more universally striving to succeed educationally. There is also a growing movement to "get into the best schools", with the competition starting earlier. So families have more incentive to excel in school mark-wise.
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Sith_Mauler
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Fallen_daemon posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
cant just blame it on income level, you can blame it on the failed welfare system that many states make a profit off.
what am I speaking off, well since the feds pushed the administration of welfare food stamps and other safety net programs down to state, it creates incentive for state departments to get as many cases as the can. why because for every new file a case worker opens the state receives xx mount of federal dollars to administer the program.
its common for school counselors to tell teen girls that get pregnant to drop out and we will sign you up for public housing welfare foodstamps etc....
no body tells dumb ass !@#$ to get pregnant, they are stupid to get pregnant in the first place. how stupid can people be?
try living in a bible belt state where condoms and birth control is evil and they believe that abstinence is the only true from of birth control. many of the high schools around here dont even have sex ed.
trust me there are more bible thumpers in the US then non bible thumpers.
I got in a heated debate with this older lady in child development class about putting my teen daughter on birth control when she hits 15-16. She says so you support your teen daughter having sex? I said hell no but look at reality, I lost my virginity at 15 and by 16 I was having sex regularly. We debated back and forth and my final statement was do you want to pay more taxes to support these teen mother and their children? People fail to realize that social services cost money and it comes from tax dollars.
Never mind the fact that having a child at that age severely hampers their ability to become a productive adult.
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JD_HOGG
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Poor people in civilized capitalist societies are poor because they are lazy minded and take the easiest way out in life. For instance, it is easier to go get a shovel and start shoveling shiz for $10 an hour then go home and get drunk on cheap liquor and beat up your kids if you haven't left them already, than it is to shovel your shiz all day, then go to school at night and learn how to write computer code in the evening so you can get the eff out of the ditch. Many poor people could get out of poverty by making better use of their down time BUT IT IS TOO HARD WHEN YOU ARE MENTALLY LAZY.
Also, I have been hearing about this "growing gap" for 40+ years now. Isn't everyone besides just one guy poor by now? Or is the "growing gap" some juked up statistical nonsense?
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JD_HOGG
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Sith_Mauler posted:
Fallen_daemon posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
cant just blame it on income level, you can blame it on the failed welfare system that many states make a profit off.
what am I speaking off, well since the feds pushed the administration of welfare food stamps and other safety net programs down to state, it creates incentive for state departments to get as many cases as the can. why because for every new file a case worker opens the state receives xx mount of federal dollars to administer the program.
its common for school counselors to tell teen girls that get pregnant to drop out and we will sign you up for public housing welfare foodstamps etc....
no body tells dumb ass !@#$ to get pregnant, they are stupid to get pregnant in the first place. how stupid can people be?
try living in a bible belt state where condoms and birth control is evil and they believe that abstinence is the only true from of birth control. many of the high schools around here dont even have sex ed.
trust me there are more bible thumpers in the US then non bible thumpers.
I got in a heated debate with this older lady in child development class about putting my teen daughter on birth control when she hits 15-16. She says so you support your teen daughter having sex? I said hell no but look at reality, I lost my virginity at 15 and by 16 I was having sex regularly. We debated back and forth and my final statement was do you want to pay more taxes to support these teen mother and their children? People fail to realize that social services cost money and it comes from tax dollars.
Never mind the fact that having a child at that age severely hampers their ability to become a productive adult.
So in other words you have failed as a parent.
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Sith_Mauler
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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JD_HOGG posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
Fallen_daemon posted:
[quote=Sith_Mauler]cant just blame it on income level, you can blame it on the failed welfare system that many states make a profit off.
what am I speaking off, well since the feds pushed the administration of welfare food stamps and other safety net programs down to state, it creates incentive for state departments to get as many cases as the can. why because for every new file a case worker opens the state receives xx mount of federal dollars to administer the program.
its common for school counselors to tell teen girls that get pregnant to drop out and we will sign you up for public housing welfare foodstamps etc....
no body tells dumb ass !@#$ to get pregnant, they are stupid to get pregnant in the first place. how stupid can people be?
try living in a bible belt state where condoms and birth control is evil and they believe that abstinence is the only true from of birth control. many of the high schools around here dont even have sex ed.
trust me there are more bible thumpers in the US then non bible thumpers.
I got in a heated debate with this older lady in child development class about putting my teen daughter on birth control when she hits 15-16. She says so you support your teen daughter having sex? I said hell no but look at reality, I lost my virginity at 15 and by 16 I was having sex regularly. We debated back and forth and my final statement was do you want to pay more taxes to support these teen mother and their children? People fail to realize that social services cost money and it comes from tax dollars.
Never mind the fact that having a child at that age severely hampers their ability to become a productive adult.
So in other words you have failed as a parent.[/quote]
no I am protecting her from a lifetime of regret. teenagers are going to be teenagers regardless, and if you expressly forbid something, more and likely they will seek it out. I know that because I was fcking a preachers daughter in high school and her parents where blissfully unaware.
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suntzukali2
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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I think theirs a lot of factors in who is and who isnt a good student. GOod parents and good teachers is the most important but theirs others too.
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levgre
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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JD_HOGG posted:
Poor people in civilized capitalist societies are poor because they are lazy minded and take the easiest way out in life. For instance, it is easier to go get a shovel and start shoveling shiz for $10 an hour then go home and get drunk on cheap liquor and beat up your kids if you haven't left them already, than it is to shovel your shiz all day, then go to school at night and learn how to write computer code in the evening so you can get the eff out of the ditch. Many poor people could get out of poverty by making better use of their down time BUT IT IS TOO HARD WHEN YOU ARE MENTALLY LAZY.
Also, I have been hearing about this "growing gap" for 40+ years now. Isn't everyone besides just one guy poor by now? Or is the "growing gap" some juked up statistical nonsense?
Nice trolling... makes you look like a retard though.
Some people don't realize all the burdens and stresses that poor people generally have growing up, vs a person growing up in a well off family, in a good neighborhood.
It's just hubris, the wealthy like to look at themselves as better, when they would falter at nearly as high a rate if born into the environments the lower classes emerge from.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/03/poordevelopment/
"Growing up poor isn’t merely hard on kids. It might also be bad for their brains. A long-term study of cognitive development in lower- and middle-class students found strong links between childhood poverty, physiological stress and adult memory.
The findings support a neurobiological hypothesis for why impoverished children consistently fare worse than their middle-class counterparts in school, and eventually in life.
....
A plausible contributor to the income-achievement gap is working-memory impairment in lower-income adults caused by stress-related damage to the brain during childhood," they wrote.
To test their hypothesis, Evans and Schamberg analyzed the results of their earlier, long-term study of stress in 195 poor and middle-class Caucasian students, half male and half female. In that study, which found a direct link between poverty and stress, students’ blood pressure and stress hormones were measured at 9 and 13 years old. At 17, their memory was tested.
Given a sequence of items to remember‚ teenagers who grew up in poverty remembered an average of 8.5 items. Those who were well-off during childhood remembered an average of 9.44 items. So-called working memory is considered a reliable indicator of reading, language and problem-solving ability — capacities critical for adult success."
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NeoKarnak
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Lots of stupid replies, but not surprising.
It's not stupidity, it's ignorance. If no member of your family has ever proven to you that graduating from school opens many, many more opportunities in your life to choose a career, you are less likely to strive for it. Many kids see their parents in action and say "well, we are alive and we eat, so my parents must be doing well." They don't realize that their family is at the poverty line and has no chance to improve due to no career skills that are deemed valuable.
It has ZERO to do with mental laziness. ZERO. They have never been shown what it takes to get out of their multi-generational situation. You can try to TELL them, but they will strive to the examples that surround them. It is the reason rich kids usually do well in school. They are surrounded by examples of what schooling can do for you.
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NeoKarnak
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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JD_HOGG posted:
Poor people in civilized capitalist societies are poor because they are lazy minded and take the easiest way out in life. For instance, it is easier to go get a shovel and start shoveling shiz for $10 an hour then go home and get drunk on cheap liquor and beat up your kids if you haven't left them already, than it is to shovel your shiz all day, then go to school at night and learn how to write computer code in the evening so you can get the eff out of the ditch. Many poor people could get out of poverty by making better use of their down time BUT IT IS TOO HARD WHEN YOU ARE MENTALLY LAZY.
Also, I have been hearing about this "growing gap" for 40+ years now. Isn't everyone besides just one guy poor by now? Or is the "growing gap" some juked up statistical nonsense?
It's a wonder you learned to type. It really is.
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Sith_Mauler posted:
its common for school counselors to tell teen girls that get pregnant to drop out and we will sign you up for public housing welfare foodstamps etc....
lol wut.
I don't think it is as cut and dry as, poor = failed test scores = stupid. There are many different things that lead into failing at school. But a lot of those problems are found in poverty stricken areas. For example, single parent (often a single mother) might not have the time or ability to work hard with their child after school doing homework because they are working at job #2. The child might not be able to go to an after school program because there is no transportation for him so he misses out that way. Lack of access to health and dental care can be a huge detriment to school readiness and performance. Poor dental health is the number one contributer to missed school. Kids who have parents who don't understand or enforce the importance of dental education and kids who don't have access to dental care (screenings, cleanings, fluoride, scaling, etc) can suffer from infections and complications that can cause them to miss school, impact their speech and functioning, etc. When a child misses school he not only is missing out on education but there's a good chance mom has to stay home. Now she's missed work and if that continues it could result in a lack of promotion, increased wages, or even result in unemployment because she's missing too many days.
Of course there are people that make very bad decisions (one might even call them stupid) and it results in them being afflicted by poverty. But the people you are talking about in this article are children. Children cannot make their parents take them to a dentist. In fact, it's SO easy to get kids to follow good brushing habits. They love getting free toothbrushes to take home and use. But the kid cannot control whether or not the parent buys insurance for them, takes them to a dentist, prioritizes dental health, or even if the parent has the ability and access to take them to a dentist or doctor.
It's a lack of knowledge, guidance, mentorship, self-esteem, access to resources (not just financial), ability... etc. that contribute to someone being in poverty.
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Fallen_daemon posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
cant just blame it on income level, you can blame it on the failed welfare system that many states make a profit off.
what am I speaking off, well since the feds pushed the administration of welfare food stamps and other safety net programs down to state, it creates incentive for state departments to get as many cases as the can. why because for every new file a case worker opens the state receives xx mount of federal dollars to administer the program.
its common for school counselors to tell teen girls that get pregnant to drop out and we will sign you up for public housing welfare foodstamps etc....
no body tells dumb ass !@#$ to get pregnant, they are stupid to get pregnant in the first place. how stupid can people be?
And no one tells them how to NOT get pregnant either. Besides abstaining from sex, which we all know works out great because teenagers are able to control their sexual urges just fine. Kids think that drinking bleach will make you not get pregnant. Standing on your head, having sex on your period... But they aren't taught about proper use of birth control. As well there are self-esteem issues. Girls without a good role model might thrive on the attention they got from some guy. Sometimes older men take advantage of young girls (  ). There are many reasons that people get pregnant in the first place. Mistakes happen, and sometimes people don't even know they are making a mistake because no one told them otherwise.
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JD_HOGG
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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NeoKarnak posted:
JD_HOGG posted:
Poor people in civilized capitalist societies are poor because they are lazy minded and take the easiest way out in life. For instance, it is easier to go get a shovel and start shoveling shiz for $10 an hour then go home and get drunk on cheap liquor and beat up your kids if you haven't left them already, than it is to shovel your shiz all day, then go to school at night and learn how to write computer code in the evening so you can get the eff out of the ditch. Many poor people could get out of poverty by making better use of their down time BUT IT IS TOO HARD WHEN YOU ARE MENTALLY LAZY.
Also, I have been hearing about this "growing gap" for 40+ years now. Isn't everyone besides just one guy poor by now? Or is the "growing gap" some juked up statistical nonsense?
It's a wonder you learned to type. It really is.
Go bleed your heart out somewhere else.
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No man who submits to Allah is poor.
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Correlation is causation, that's all you need to know.
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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NeoKarnak posted:
Lots of stupid replies, but not surprising.
It's not stupidity, it's ignorance. If no member of your family has ever proven to you that graduating from school opens many, many more opportunities in your life to choose a career, you are less likely to strive for it. Many kids see their parents in action and say "well, we are alive and we eat, so my parents must be doing well." They don't realize that their family is at the poverty line and has no chance to improve due to no career skills that are deemed valuable.
It has ZERO to do with mental laziness. ZERO. They have never been shown what it takes to get out of their multi-generational situation. You can try to TELL them, but they will strive to the examples that surround them. It is the reason rich kids usually do well in school. They are surrounded by examples of what schooling can do for you.
I can tell you how I made it out of poverty. I went from fist fighting my siblings for a chicken neck to what you would call the 1%. I'm sure you've got quite a tale too. How did you get out of poverty? Or maybe you are one of those people born lucky into a cozy middle class or better home, and despite your winning the sperm lottery, you didn't improve yourself to the best of your ability - you could have been so much more but you squandered your opportunity on beer bongs and margarita parties. Now you feel guilty about that so you dream up a convoluted understanding of poverty.
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Brother_Tempus
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Subject:
Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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if memory serves correctly, Obama came from a single parent home that wad nit all that affluent and became President
just saying
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Ah-Schoo
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Subject:
Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Brother_Tempus posted:
if memory serves correctly, Obama came from a single parent home that wad nit all that affluent and became President
just saying
wad nit indeed.
It's funny when you're so anxious to get your idiocy posted that you can't even type.
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Reapist
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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I abstained from sex thru high school because I didn't want a pregnancy to screw up my life.
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jonus156
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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i grew up poor ive been working damn hard to make a better life for my family my wife went back to school and as soon as she graduates ill go back for my degree so i can show my kid that education and hard work are the key to success not being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. ( I hope that makes sense trying to think with a migraine is damn hard)
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Anebriated
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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wait, it's possible to grow up poor and achieve success? omg! i was about to argue that it was impossible for any poor person to ever make it but you really defeated that one.
what i really want to know is, is it possible for a conservative to think of a more complicated relationship than A causes B.
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JD_HOGG
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Anebriated posted:
wait, it's possible to grow up poor and achieve success? omg! i was about to argue that it was impossible for any poor person to ever make it but you really defeated that one.
what i really want to know is, is it possible for a conservative to think of a more complicated relationship than A causes B.
The big secret is that life really isn't all that complicated. Can't be if a stupid "conservative" like me can succeed.
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Anebriated
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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simple rules can have success in complicated environments. ACF is complicated, yes? pretty hard to predict some things on a large scale even though some users are very predictable. some threads go into unpredictable directions.
one simple rule for example is pretending to be retarded. it will usually get responses. trololol success.
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Ah-Schoo
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Anebriated posted:
simple rules can have success in complicated environments. ACF is complicated, yes? pretty hard to predict some things on a large scale even though some users are very predictable. some threads go into unpredictable directions.
one simple rule for example is pretending to be retarded. it will usually get responses. trololol success.
It gets me EVERY TIME!
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JD_HOGG
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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No, really. Life is simple. When you are hungry, go find some food. When you are thirsty, go find some water. When it rains, go find shelter. When you are horny, you go out back and find the dog. Simple. Liberals tend to over-think life's simplicity and dream up complicated theories as to why people are hungry, thirsty, wet, or have boners.
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Sith_Mauler
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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-Ducky- posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
its common for school counselors to tell teen girls that get pregnant to drop out and we will sign you up for public housing welfare foodstamps etc....
lol wut.
you dont know oklahoma, this state has one of the largest human services departments in the nation, the last ranking that I saw was 7th and that was a few years ago.
oklahoma is also one of the states that failed miserably at non child left behind(not that I am supporting or defending it) and we rank 34th for % of high school students graduated.
this state is a welfare state the elected leaders seen determined to keep it that away.
that is why there is such a brain drain on this state.
when I finish with my degree I am moving away from this place as fast as possible.
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JD_HOGG
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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Well, you could stay in Oklahoma and improve it. Why be a quitter and run away with your brain?
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Sith_Mauler
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Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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JD_HOGG posted:
Well, you could stay in Oklahoma and improve it. Why be a quitter and run away with your brain?
because more and likely I can earn twice as much some place else.
and plus I have the rolling stone disease, every so often I have to pick up and more.
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Well I ain't first class
But I ain't white trash
I'm wild and a little crazy too
I have seen a lot of things in my life time.
That is why I walk the line I walk.
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NeoKarnak
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Subject:
Are they poor because they are stupid? or they are failing school because they are poor?
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JD_HOGG posted:
NeoKarnak posted:
Lots of stupid replies, but not surprising.
It's not stupidity, it's ignorance. If no member of your family has ever proven to you that graduating from school opens many, many more opportunities in your life to choose a career, you are less likely to strive for it. Many kids see their parents in action and say "well, we are alive and we eat, so my parents must be doing well." They don't realize that their family is at the poverty line and has no chance to improve due to no career skills that are deemed valuable.
It has ZERO to do with mental laziness. ZERO. They have never been shown what it takes to get out of their multi-generational situation. You can try to TELL them, but they will strive to the examples that surround them. It is the reason rich kids usually do well in school. They are surrounded by examples of what schooling can do for you.
I can tell you how I made it out of poverty. I went from fist fighting my siblings for a chicken neck to what you would call the 1%. I'm sure you've got quite a tale too. How did you get out of poverty? Or maybe you are one of those people born lucky into a cozy middle class or better home, and despite your winning the sperm lottery, you didn't improve yourself to the best of your ability - you could have been so much more but you squandered your opportunity on beer bongs and margarita parties. Now you feel guilty about that so you dream up a convoluted understanding of poverty.
I work with poverty children and their parents every day. Every day for 14 years. I have been homeless and paid my way through college.
I sincerely doubt you got to where you are without some good influences along the way.
I have a convoluted understanding of poverty? The way you talk about it makes your whole "story" sound like a bunch of BS you conjured up to try to prove a point so you don't sound like an idiot for spewing about a topic you know nothing about.
You are the one that came to the thread sounding clueless, so don't get bent out of shape when someone calls you on it.
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