Allstarslacker
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Most of the Anti-China rhetoric in this country is fueled by pride not by facts.
Sure there are things that China is doing that are better for them than for us, but we're the same way. We've hurt plenty of people along the way to maintain our status.
It's hard to let go of being the undisputed number 1 country around, but it's happening like it or not. The world we live in will not be under our thumb, and if we continue to let pride push us into another rivalry with a super power it's only going to hurt us.
I believe there is a path forward that is equally beneficial in the long run for both the average Chinese person and the average American person. We just have to be willing to set our pride aside and deal with the situation realistically not idealistically.
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GrilledCheez
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You're kind of stupid though. So maybe you're our enemy. Think about it.
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Allstarslacker
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I'm probably more than kind of stupid, but I do what I can with what I have.
I'm definitely not making our country a better place, but I'm trying real hard to stay out of the way of people who can.
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GrilledCheez
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in most ways China is our friend. And we have been very good to them over the years. BUT we need a new plan to compete globally, and the need for that plan is in large part due to China cheating. That doesn't make them our enemy for sure. But it does mean we need to reevaluate our rules.
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Rosaria
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dae_trist
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GrilledCheez posted:
in most ways China is our friend. And we have been very good to them over the years. BUT we need a new plan to compete globally, and the need for that plan is in large part due to China cheating. That doesn't make them our enemy for sure. But it does mean we need to reevaluate our rules.
America has not been good to anyone over the years. America is calculating and amoral and acts only in self-interest, or the interests of the elite. The main reason why America has done poorly is because the average American can't compete globally once you strip away America's cheating (robbing the poor, colonizing brown people, monopolies).
American elites aren't chumps though and have more capital in their hands than their counterparts anywhere, mostly because they rape the poor not only in America but in their overseas dependencies and puppet/vassal states.
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Moe_Nox
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I sure wish America would pull out of our puppet state of Tibet. 
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GrilledCheez
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HAHAHAHA Ok buddy. Save it for your asian buddies. The American worker has been THE standard for the last hundred years. The ONLY reason the chinese have taken any American jobs is currency manipulation.
I dont' say that out of any feeling of malice or anything. I am totally glad that the average Chinese life is better now than a decade ago and getting better.
But facts are facts. America for the last eighty years has passed regulation countering corporate greed in the name of the consumer and worker rights. We are now in a marketplace and competing directly with countries that not only don't do that but freely manipulate their own currency and laws to take jobs from the west.
Not only does America need to take a hard look at job competition, but the world should be taking a harder look at labor rights and currency manipulation as competitive advantage.
Ultimately America was stupid because we opened "free trade" and should not have before we had a better plan. But our super rich guys needed to be super richerer so there you go.
Pretending any of this was due to Chinese superiority or fair competition is nuts.
PS. you should ask some people from your motherland how things were in the thirties and whether they think america has been good to them.
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Sgian_Dubh
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GrilledCheez posted:
But facts are facts. America for the last eighty years has passed regulation countering corporate greed in the name of the consumer and worker rights. .
lol.
What fucking planet are YOU from where this is "fact"?
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Allstarslacker
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I know it's pretty popular to rail against corporations right now, and there are definitely some issues the U.S. needs to address, but to act as though what GC said isn't accurate is just stupid.
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theredkay1
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We will all be better off with a wealthier China. Not that there wont be some bumps along the way.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Eventually China will have the largest consumer market in the world and it is best to be on their good side when that time comes.
The US has let China manipulate our currency based on the idea that it is good for the consumer and the capital markets. The capital markets mostly need help because of Federal debt. The time has come for the US to re-evaluate this position and work with China to ensure that US exports to China increase and the trade imbalance decreases.
So far the relationship has been a net gain but prolonged underemployment in the US is eroding those gains and if this continues everyone will lose.
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Eager_Igraine
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dae_trist posted:
China has not been good to anyone over the years. China is calculating and amoral and acts only in self-interest, or the interests of the elite. The main reason why China has done poorly is because the average Chinese can't compete globally once you strip away China's cheating (robbing the poor, colonizing brown people, monopolies).
China elites aren't chumps though and have more capital in their hands than their counterparts anywhere, mostly because they rape the poor not only in China but in their overseas dependencies and puppet/vassal states.
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Rosaria
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China's focus has been strengthening their trade with the EU [now their largest trading partner] as well as those countries in near physical proximity to them - Japan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore, etc.
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bstulic
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dae_trist posted:
America has not been good to anyone over the years. America is calculating and amoral and acts only in self-interest, or the interests of the elite. The main reason why America has done poorly is because the average American can't compete globally once you strip away America's cheating (robbing the poor, colonizing brown people, monopolies).
American elites aren't chumps though and have more capital in their hands than their counterparts anywhere, mostly because they rape the poor not only in America but in their overseas dependencies and puppet/vassal states.
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Tipztoe
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dae_trist posted:
GrilledCheez posted:
in most ways China is our friend. And we have been very good to them over the years. BUT we need a new plan to compete globally, and the need for that plan is in large part due to China cheating. That doesn't make them our enemy for sure. But it does mean we need to reevaluate our rules.
America has not been good to anyone over the years. America is calculating and amoral and acts only in self-interest, or the interests of the elite. The main reason why America has done poorly is because the average American can't compete globally once you strip away America's cheating (robbing the poor, colonizing brown people, monopolies).
American elites aren't chumps though and have more capital in their hands than their counterparts anywhere, mostly because they rape the poor not only in America but in their overseas dependencies and puppet/vassal states.
and yet here you are posting from the US in English.
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Eager_Igraine
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Kamdar
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theredkay1 posted:
We will all be better off with a wealthier China. Not that there wont be some bumps along the way.
Correct..where else would we borrow trillons of $$ from?
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Testerion
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China and USA has pretty tight symbiosis, because of their loans you guys can go around playing world police and because of your sweet business deals China is slowly rising as world power.
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Ashmaele
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Nekked racism itt
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dae_trist
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GrilledCheez posted:
HAHAHAHA Ok buddy. Save it for your asian buddies. The American worker has been THE standard for the last hundred years. The ONLY reason the chinese have taken any American jobs is currency manipulation.
No, Americans have been stupid for centuries (excluding the imports). The difference is that everyone else was bombed to ashes in WW2. "The Chinese" didn't take your jobs, machines did. The Chinese took those jobs from the machines.
GrilledCheez posted:
But facts are facts. America for the last eighty years has passed regulation countering corporate greed in the name of the consumer and worker rights. We are now in a marketplace and competing directly with countries that not only don't do that but freely manipulate their own currency and laws to take jobs from the west.
America is the worst currency manipulator. They force people to deal in dollars (with a gun to oil producer heads) and then mass print to earn from seigniorage
GC posted:
Not only does America need to take a hard look at job competition, but the world should be taking a harder look at labor rights and currency manipulation as competitive advantage.
America's competitiveness(ignoring the robots and machines for now) is hampered by poor education and infrastructure. Not easy to solve overnight.
GC posted:
Ultimately America was stupid because we opened "free trade" and should not have before we had a better plan. But our super rich guys needed to be super richerer so there you go.
The super rich will always find a way to manipulate dumb bible-thumpers into backing policies that favor them. There is more involved than just "free trade".
GC posted:
Pretending any of this was due to Chinese superiority or fair competition is nuts.
If its so easy to do what China does, why is it that only East Asia has been capable of developing with no natural resources? It's because no one else is willing to work 12-14 hours a day and spend almost nothing. It's never going to be "fair competition" when Americans simply do not have the work ethic to compete, all other things equal.
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dae_trist
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Tipztoe posted:
and yet here you are posting from the US in English.
You don't speak any other language, I'd assume.
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dae_trist
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Testerion posted:
China and USA has pretty tight symbiosis, because of their loans you guys can go around playing world police and because of your sweet business deals China is slowly rising as world power.
China makes almost nothing in terms of profit from trade with the US. But they get intellectual property, some decent managers (sometimes) and a tiny amount of political clout in the US. China doesn't need the US, the US needs China (and Japan, and oil producing nations).
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Eager_Igraine
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dae_trist posted:
China doesn't need the US, the US needs China.
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dae_trist
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Eager_Igraine posted:
I'm dumb so I'm gonna post an emoticon
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Tych2
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dae_trist posted:
FACTS!!!!!
Silly puppet.
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__Bonk__
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Like russia and saudi arabia they are not an enemy and not a friend
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dae_trist
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Saudi Arabia is something else altogether
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__Bonk__
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Saudi Arabia is pure evil. We only deal with them because they have lots of oil
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Moe_Nox
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Its funny that China's very population surge is the result of Emperor Mao commanding the peasants to have a horde of babies to swarm the west with.
Twatter is an anger baby born out of a doctrine of hate!~ 
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dae_trist
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Moe_Nox posted:
Its funny that China's very population surge is the result of Emperor Mao commanding the peasants to have a horde of babies to swarm the west with.
Twatter is an anger baby born out of a doctrine of hate!~
He actually tried to cut the population down. If China had just exterminated all their minorities instead of marrying them their population would be like 200-300 million today.
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Moe_Nox
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You mean killing more than the 50 million they murdered?
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__Bonk__
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China's population explosion mirrors that of the rest of the developing world.
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dae_trist
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Moe_Nox posted:
You mean killing more than the 50 million they murdered?
50 million is the number of syphilis bacterium colonizing your brain.
This is what actually happened.
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theredkay1
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dae_trist posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
Its like the titanic vs. the hindenburg
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Moe_Nox
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Mao remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious legacy that is subject to continuing revision and fierce debate. Nationwide political campaigns led by Mao, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, are often considered catastrophic failures. Although Mao encouraged population growth and China's population almost doubled during the period of his leadership[6] (from around 550 to over 900 million),[3][4] his rule from 1949 to 1976 is believed to have caused the deaths of 40 to 70 million people.[7][8]
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dae_trist
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Moe_Nox posted:
pro-American anti-Chinese propaganda on Wiki
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reesescups
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Moe_Nox posted:
Mao remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious legacy that is subject to continuing revision and fierce debate. Nationwide political campaigns led by Mao, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, are often considered catastrophic failures. Although Mao encouraged population growth and China's population almost doubled during the period of his leadership[6] (from around 550 to over 900 million),[3][4] his rule from 1949 to 1976 is believed to have caused the deaths of 40 to 70 million people.[7][8]
You have no idea exactly how powerful brain washing can be until you have a conversation with a mainlander about Mao...
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dae_trist
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I'm guessing some 20-30 million "died" under him, as per the sudden spike in mortality rates.
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__Bonk__
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The deaths in China was more a death of poor planning than deliberate murder done by Stalin on the Soviet Union
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A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
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DemonicXH
Title: Camelot Vault Staff
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Subject:
China isn't our enemy
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dae_trist posted:
China doesn't need the US, the US needs China.
Riiiiiiiight.
If you love China so much I am sure they wouldn't mind another faceless drone to slave in their factories for 14 hours a day...
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DemonicXH
Title: Camelot Vault Staff
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Subject:
China isn't our enemy
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http://www.indep endent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html
Posted from a UK website from a study done by a Hong Kong historian.
No Pro-American bias there.
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dae_trist
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China isn't our enemy
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The British Isles are America's dingleberries, and anything that the cockgobblers at the independent sources can't be worth anything.
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"templars heal for like 300-400 a heal"
"wardens do waht 40 dps at most? friars do 600 dps"
"well maybe the aoe taunt that bains had..."
"Eck theurg pets are unstunnable..." -- bryldan
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dae_trist
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Subject:
China isn't our enemy
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Frank Dikötter, a Hong Kong-based historian
Oh jesus fucking christ, now I went to your link. This guy is a loon.
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"templars heal for like 300-400 a heal"
"wardens do waht 40 dps at most? friars do 600 dps"
"well maybe the aoe taunt that bains had..."
"Eck theurg pets are unstunnable..." -- bryldan
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