__Bonk__
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What century are they living in?
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Thugoneous
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The same one you are.
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__Bonk__
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I'm for birth control, think abortion should be legal, and I'm for sex ed in schools.
Republicans are against all three
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Thugoneous
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You paint with a broad brush.
That makes you a shitty painter.
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__Bonk__
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I speak the truth. They are living in the past.
They are against sex ed and birth control and when their spoiled brats get pregnant they are against abortion too.
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Manegarm
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Social Conservatism is insanity, it's blind idealism wrung from the acidic idiocy of archaic religious dogma.
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Tych2
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__Bonk__ posted:
What century are they living in?
It's a relgious thing for them. Its not only republicans. My dad's church they read some letter and it pissed people off. There are no republicans in my town.
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Sea_of_inK
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Cut their services
and get them reproduce like rabbits.
this is the rwn plan for the poor an uninsured.
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Scarne
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98% of Catholics use birth control but the official position of the church is still against the use of any.
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__Bonk__
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Its pure madness
Dont teach kids about sex ed
Dont give the birth control
Then get mad and not let them have abortions when they get preggers.
Madness
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__Bonk__
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Scarne posted:
98% of Catholics use birth control but the official position of the church is still against the use of any.
In the US and Europe
In the developing world they dont use the birth control and they obey the church
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Thugoneous
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Some of us can't get past the part that the fetus will be a person, and would like to think that that sack of cells might be a useful member of society. I'm all for destroying fetus' who will be born with downs or something similar.
I don't see the issue with Birth control and I'm not sure what good sex ed actually has produced since inception or if it's just a waste of valuable class time, where children can learn about gay history instead. Children know how babies are made, they either care or don't.
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Tych2
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I am not sure how I feel about this.
1) I support a woman's right to choose.
2) I don't like the government telling churches what to do.
3) I don't believe in god.
I am thinking I am siding with the churches on this, but I am just not sure.
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Sin_of_Onin
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The church shouldn't be able to dictate to their employees to such an extent. The problems stem from who is being forced to pay for the insurance.
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Taliesihne
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Tych2 posted:
I am not sure how I feel about this.
1) I support a woman's right to choose.
2) I don't like the government telling churches what to do.
3) I don't believe in god.
I am thinking I am siding with the churches on this, but I am just not sure.
The hair on this is split thin, but Churches are actually exempt. Please note by Church, I mean an actual church.
Businesses run by churches that offer healthcare are now required to cover certain things with insurance - most notably birth control options.
Fwiw, this is such a non-issue. If just offering to pay for birth control through HC is going to cause your flock to go buck wild, you have other issues. After all, no one is FORCED to take advantage of them.
Those that are not of the faith of the business are no longer required to share values when making HC decisions.
Ultimately I'm good with this.
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Scarne
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Thugoneous posted:
Some of us can't get past the part that the fetus will be a person, and would like to think that that sack of cells might be a useful member of society. I'm all for destroying fetus' who will be born with downs or something similar.
The majority of abortions are performed before the ball of cells becomes a fetus.
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Groucho48
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Many states already require this. It's only become an issue because...Obama.
Institutions can generally do some bargaining with health insurance companies. if it turns out that no employees of theirs ever take advantage of the contraceptive coverage, the Church might be able to negotiate a break in the premiums.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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__Bonk__ posted:
What century are they living in?
You just don't get it. We are against forcing people to do things. You on the other hand seem to think government should be run by kings. Makes me see what century you are in.
As for you other hate mongers; look at the numbers before your wonderful programs before and after. Every time liberals force their ideas on people the problems get worse. Then they act like those who point out their failures are the real problem.
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Grymlo
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Since when is birth control a health issue? It just keeps expanding and expanding. Whats going to be covered next?
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Groucho48
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Grymlo posted:
Since when is birth control a health issue? It just keeps expanding and expanding. Whats going to be covered next?
Since, oh, 20 years ago.
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Tych2
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In that line of thought...
Do we agree all preventive measures/treatments/programs should be covered? And I mean forced to be covered?
I believe they should, but I am still not sure about forcing religious to cover what they see as wrong. This is one of those issues I am on the fence on. Not many of them but this is surely one.
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Groucho48 posted:
Grymlo posted:
Since when is birth control a health issue? It just keeps expanding and expanding. Whats going to be covered next?
Since, oh, 20 years ago.
Let me rephrase that. Why should birth control be covered? What exactly does it have to do with the health of the majority of women? Whats the end of the expansion of health care coverage? Whats next, sex changes? 
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Tych2
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It's a preventative measure.
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Modeeb
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The Republicans need an Amish candidate
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Groucho48
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Grymlo posted:
Groucho48 posted:
Grymlo posted:
Since when is birth control a health issue? It just keeps expanding and expanding. Whats going to be covered next?
Since, oh, 20 years ago.
Let me rephrase that. Why should birth control be covered? What exactly does it have to do with the health of the majority of women? Whats the end of the expansion of health care coverage? Whats next, sex changes?
Get in your time machine, travel back 20 or 30 or 40 years and make your argument. Because that was when the decisions were made.
It's amusing how right wingers are shocked and amazed when Obama continues a policy that has been around forever and pretend it is something brand new and a radical change
Why shouldn't contraception be covered. It is a very common medical expense. As paulg keeps reminding us, its stupid for the government to give money to poor people to have babies. Well, this is a way of assisting poor people and all other people to not have a baby until they are ready. It also decreases the need for abortion. Over the long run, health insurance probably end up saving a bit of money by paying for contraception.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Yeah contraceptives are part of health coverage. That is a basic cost control measure insurance companies put in a long time ago.
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Tych2
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Groucho48 posted:
It's amusing how right wingers are shocked and amazed when Obama continues a policy that has been around forever and pretend it is something brand new and a radical change
You're saying that the federal government has been forcing churches to cover contraceptives for 20 or 30 or 40 years?
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Taliesihne
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So Tych, are your church friends upset with Romney or Obama?
I imagine just finding out your own state already has this provision is confusing some of them
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Tych2
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Taliesihne posted:
So Tych, are your church friends upset with Romney or Obama?
I imagine just finding out your own state already has this provision is confusing some of them
It's not my church friends. (I can taste the condescension in your post) I don't go to church or even believe in god. It was my dad's church and I am not sure if they are confused or not. He said they were upset after the priest read some letter. He said some got up and left the church because they didn't agree with the church on the issue. The ones that stayed were upset. He was talking to my uncle about it when they were over on Sunday for the game. I didn't probe it because I rarely talk politics in my personal life with people I care about.
And does my state? Does my state force churches to cover contraceptives? I wouldn't have a clue.
I can't imagine that its a huge portion of the population that is effected by this.
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Tych2 posted:
It's a preventative measure.
So is abstaining from sex, oral sex, anal sex, and hand jobs and we dont need to pay for these.
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Grymlo posted:
Tych2 posted:
It's a preventative measure.
BABIES ARE A WOMENS PROBLEM! WHO CARES?!?!
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Yukishiro1
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The cost of effective birth control is many times less than the costs of someone having a child they don't want. It is basically in everyone's interest to cover and healthcare plans realize this.
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theredkay1
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Ideally this wouldnt be an issue. The government really doesnt need to be dictating compensation packages....
The government could provide one or two basic health insurance coverage packages to everyone while removing the tax subsidy for private coverage....private entities would be free to offer any kind of insurance product they wanted as part of their compensation package....and people could choose what works best for them.
But lots of people have worked really hard to make sure this simple solution wont happen. So we are left with these kinds of decisions that make the best of a stupid situation. Nobody is forced to use contraceptives and this stops employers from imposing their religious will onto their employees.
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I hope this continues and dentistry gets included because my son will need braces in a year or two.
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Grymlo posted:
Groucho48 posted:
Grymlo posted:
Since when is birth control a health issue? It just keeps expanding and expanding. Whats going to be covered next?
Since, oh, 20 years ago.
Let me rephrase that. Why should birth control be covered? What exactly does it have to do with the health of the majority of women? Whats the end of the expansion of health care coverage? Whats next, sex changes?
Prescription medication, implanted contraceptives, surgical options....
but please feel free to be selective in which Medical procedures you wish to cover
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Moe_Nox
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cabbyman posted:
I hope this continues and dentistry gets included because my son will need braces in a year or two.
Cabby if your insurance plan doesn't cover them, start looking now for the nearest dental school.
You will have to go thru a lengthy application process and if accepted they like to get ahold of the kids early.
If accepted the cost is 50-70% less than commercial dentists, and honestly its the best service I've ever had.
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Remnant_OBrien
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I was under the impression that this has nothing to do with churches and everything to do with business run by churches (that employ people outside the faith).
something like 34 states already require the exact same thing.
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Moe_Nox posted:
cabbyman posted:
I hope this continues and dentistry gets included because my son will need braces in a year or two.
Cabby if your insurance plan doesn't cover them, start looking now for the nearest dental school.
You will have to go thru a lengthy application process and if accepted they like to get ahold of the kids early.
If accepted the cost is 50-70% less than commercial dentists, and honestly its the best service I've ever had.
That's good advice and I'll follow up on that if the "get stuff for free" plan doesn't pan out.
Thanks!
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Groucho48
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Tych2 posted:
Groucho48 posted:
It's amusing how right wingers are shocked and amazed when Obama continues a policy that has been around forever and pretend it is something brand new and a radical change
You're saying that the federal government has been forcing churches to cover contraceptives for 20 or 30 or 40 years?
Most state governments have. And Churches aren't included. Only non-religious functions that also employ a significant number of folks who don't belong to the religion. And then only if they accept Federal money.
Mormons believe it is a sin to drink alcohol but they have no problem if businesses they own sell alcohol. Many Catholic institutions have investments in companies that make or sell birth control products. Many, many Catholics actually use birth control. But, since Obama is doing this it is radical and overreaching.
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Tych2 posted:
It's not my church friends. (I can taste the condescension in your post) I don't go to church or even believe in god. It was my dad's church and I am not sure if they are confused or not. He said they were upset after the priest read some letter. He said some got up and left the church because they didn't agree with the church on the issue. The ones that stayed were upset. He was talking to my uncle about it when they were over on Sunday for the game. I didn't probe it because I rarely talk politics in my personal life with people I care about.
1) What the hell are you doing tasting someone elses posts?
2) Tych, who do you talk politics with then??
 <--- my impression of Tych talking politics
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Ashmaele
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Republicans against birth control being covered by healthcare
To be fair to Repubes, it isn't they per se who are against it, it is the Catholic church who is against the idea that they should be forced to cover something they believe is a "sin."
The Repubes are just using it as another prong in their attack on health care reform, ie, "OMGZ OBAMA IS ATTACKING RELIGION RAWR!"
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Tych2
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So in other words Groucho you are wrong in your assertion and this is something new forcing churches to do it. It would benefit your credibility immensely if you weren't viewed as an Obama sycophant. Although because of it I knew you couldn't resist. 
Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
1) What the hell are you doing tasting someone elses posts?
2) Tych, who do you talk politics with then??
<--- my impression of Tych talking politics
1) I am Italian, tasting is what we do!
2) I don't normally talk about politics anymore. Occasionally here when I am so inclined. I've learned nothing ever good comes from talking politics with loved ones. I do discuss politics with people I don't care if I piss off.
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Manegarm
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Tych2 posted:
I didn't probe it because I rarely talk politics in my personal life with people I care about.
Why not? It's not that scary? I argue politics all the time with my family and we might disagree but we still get along it's just politics. Me and my dad had a long heated argument about integrity and the internet last weekend over a fine dinner, in the end we agreed to disagree and I paid for the cognac and espresso.
I like discussing politics with family, there are different ways to go about it me and my dad can't really discuss things civilly we get angry at each other but I can have a civil debate about politics with my cousin whose a bit Libertarian/conservative and not think ill of him for it, as I said it's just politics.
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Tych2
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Manegarm posted:
Tych2 posted:
I didn't probe it because I rarely talk politics in my personal life with people I care about.
Why not?
Listen. I've done it. I don't do it anymore. Why do I want to have heated debated with my father? Why would I want to stress him out at 76? I would rather talk about baseball or football or cooking with him and enjoy what time he has left.
We argue as all Italian families do, but its not about politics.
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_Enkidu_
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It always makes me laugh when the same people who oppose contraception also oppose a woman's right to get an abortion.
It's like they can't think it all the way through and there's only two steps!
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Tych2 posted:
We argue as all Italian families do, but its not about politics.
As a fellow Italian, I know what that is like all too well.
My dad is a self proclaimed libertarian and every time we talk about politics we get in arguments. I tell him Bill O'Reilly is brainwashing him and he thinks it's blasphemy lol.
Even 3,000 miles apart I have to refrain from bringing up politics.
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More birth control and more sex education then less abortions. You would think they would be for those things!
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I would guess they think that since contraceptives are stopping pregnancies from happening, it's like preemptive abortion.
Regardless of someone's abortion leanings, thinking contraceptives and sex education are a sin or immoral is an archaic way to look at life.
The pro-lifers need to give it up, there is no chance in hell that Roe v Wade will ever get overturned.
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
__Bonk__ posted:
What century are they living in?
You just don't get it. We are against forcing people to do things. You on the other hand seem to think government should be run by kings. Makes me see what century you are in.
As for you other hate mongers; look at the numbers before your wonderful programs before and after. Every time liberals force their ideas on people the problems get worse. Then they act like those who point out their failures are the real problem.
You don't think things through more than one step do you?
Funding birth control will actually save the gov't money in the long run, unless you do away with ALL public assistance.
Which ain't never gonna happen.
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Tych2 posted:
Manegarm posted:
Tych2 posted:
I didn't probe it because I rarely talk politics in my personal life with people I care about.
Why not?
Listen. I've done it. I don't do it anymore. Why do I want to have heated debated with my father? Why would I want to stress him out at 76? I would rather talk about baseball or football or cooking with him and enjoy what time he has left.
We argue as all Italian families do, but its not about politics.
true true..
I like arguing, and winning a argument against my dad makes my day, and he also likes arguing so it's somewhat of a pastime for us.
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DemonicXH posted:
I would guess they think that since contraceptives are stopping pregnancies from happening, it's like preemptive abortion.
I think it's more along the lines of "interfering with the will of God" which is loltastic in and of itself.
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I dont have any issues with birth control. I think the option should be there. But it should be optional by the person. More if you want it less if you dont. There are always condoms and other things.
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Well sperm and eggs arent humans or even fetuses. Its not killing a human to have contraceptives
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Mastara
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Sperm and eggs are just sperm and eggs. But when the two come together then what?
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Mastara posted:
Sperm and eggs are just sperm and eggs. But when the two come together then what?
Most of the time just sperm and eggs.
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Mastara posted:
Sperm and eggs are just sperm and eggs. But when the two come together then what?
A blastula.
When you get cleavage is when it gets fun.
Biology nerd joke...
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Thugoneous posted:
You paint with a broad brush.
That makes you a shitty painter.
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Mastara posted:
Sperm and eggs are just sperm and eggs. But when the two come together then what?
Mesoderms, ectoderms and endoderms?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs&t=1m54s
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