Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
regulator_cracka
Title: They finally recognized greatness.
Posts:
22,259
Registered:
Jan 6, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 22,219
User ID: 1,343,795
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
 Saw this on the news this morning, so I cheated, but .
I can not remember how long it took them [to] figure it out.
-----signature-----
Self Appointed Smart Ass - Level 80
If you think my opinion is idiotic, re-read yours.
Dont worry I will give my opinion anyways.
The PvP MMO is NOT a "niche" market, Mythic is just a "niche" company.
|
|
Link to this post
|
Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts:
36,223
Registered:
Feb 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,592
User ID: 896,469
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
A year - it took them a year
Good for the prisoners. Slave labor should get even 
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Taliesihne posted:
A year - it took them a year
Good for the prisoners. Slave labor should get even
I thought the slave labor was part of society getting even with the prisoners... 
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts:
36,223
Registered:
Feb 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,592
User ID: 896,469
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
|
No, that's what prison is for.
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
So you don't think there's rehabilitative value in having a job, learning a trade, learning to lead a productive live?
Recidivism is kind of high (even if you set aside the war on drugs convictions) and one of the reasons for it is that when criminal get out of prison, they don't have a way to earn a living legally. Part of that is because many of them have never experienced having a job, part of it is for other reasons too of course, but having prisoners perform some sort of job or learning a trade while they're in prison seems like a good deal all around to me.
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts:
36,223
Registered:
Feb 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,592
User ID: 896,469
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Cawlin posted:
So you don't think there's rehabilitative value in having a job, learning a trade, learning to lead a productive live?
Sure I do.
Just not at 17 cents an hour or whatever ridiculous rate they get paid
Ps - It's not really a trade if you can't find a job doing it on the outside btw.
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
|
|
Link to this post
|
Bonzoboy1
Posts:
7,090
Registered:
Aug 1, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 7,015
User ID: 1,312,136
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Taliesihne posted:
Sure I do.
Just not at 17 cents an hour or whatever ridiculous rate they get paid
You do know that working is the prisoners choice right?
-----signature-----
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often and for the same reason.
|
|
Link to this post
|
Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts:
36,223
Registered:
Feb 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,592
User ID: 896,469
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Bonzoboy1 posted:
You do know that working is the prisoners choice right?
It's a faux choice.
They face huge sanctions for not 'volunteering' for work. Like spending twice as much time in prison even if they are model prisoners.
There's a whole laundry list of sanctions for not 'volunteering' to be slave labor.
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Taliesihne posted:
Cawlin posted:
So you don't think there's rehabilitative value in having a job, learning a trade, learning to lead a productive live?
Sure I do.
Just not at 17 cents an hour or whatever ridiculous rate they get paid
Ps - It's not really a trade if you can't find a job doing it on the outside btw.
What does it cost to put the prisoners up in the first place? What does it cost for their medical care, legal representation, and all the other associated expenses that their crimes cost society? Last I heard it costs the state of PA something like $30k a year for a prisoner when all is said and done. The wages they earn are offset by their expense to the state. Further, it probably still costs the state money to have job rehab programs in prisons even if they paid the inmates nothing at all.
Now, obviously making soap or whatnot is probably not a very marketable skill outside the big house, but getting up and getting to work on time, performing your duties per instructions are skills that many inmates don't have at all.
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
Tych2
Title: Obama Appointed Outpost Czar
Posts:
40,411
Registered:
Mar 1, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,378
User ID: 1,032,223
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
|
There is a cure for this.
-----signature-----
We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
Drevid in Tanks
|
|
Link to this post
|
Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts:
36,223
Registered:
Feb 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,592
User ID: 896,469
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Tbh, I'm not so sure how I feel about making inmates pay for the own costs of their imprisonment. I'm split on it.
My big problem isn't the deduction - it's the unfair wages before the deduction.
Prison laborers should be paid at least minimum wage.
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Taliesihne posted:
Tbh, I'm not so sure how I feel about making inmates pay for the own costs of their imprisonment. I'm split on it.
My big problem isn't the deduction - it's the unfair wages before the deduction.
Prison laborers should be paid at least minimum wage, just like everyone else is required to do.
Not everyone is required to be paid a minimum wage, and I'm not talking about undocumented Democrats either.
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
Bonzoboy1
Posts:
7,090
Registered:
Aug 1, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 7,015
User ID: 1,312,136
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Taliesihne posted:
Bonzoboy1 posted:
You do know that working is the prisoners choice right?
It's a faux choice.
They face huge sanctions for not 'volunteering' for work. Like spending twice as much time in prison even if they are model prisoners.
There's a whole laundry list of sanctions for not 'volunteering' to be slave labor.
That is pure BS, they have more prisoners than jobs. The two main reasons prisoners agree to work is no money on their books and the fact that if you don't work you sit and do nothing all day every day.
-----signature-----
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often and for the same reason.
|
|
Link to this post
|
NuEM
Posts:
15,394
Registered:
Mar 2, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,662
User ID: 900,449
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
|
I don't get it.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts:
36,223
Registered:
Feb 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,592
User ID: 896,469
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
And earlier parole.
And access to the prison amenties.
Etc., etc.
None of that stuff should depend on whether or not you volunteer to be exploited.
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
|
|
Link to this post
|
Moe_Nox
Title: In Moe We Trust
Posts:
22,319
Registered:
Feb 4, '07
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 19,181
User ID: 1,203,840
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Taliesihne posted:
Prison laborers should be paid at least minimum wage.
While it might be a good troll topic in theory, no one here truly believes you are this stupid. 
-----signature-----
The Nanny State cometh Currency should be bacon cheeseburgers and blow jobs... - Reese Life at the Outpost: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1771556
|
|
Link to this post
|
Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts:
36,223
Registered:
Feb 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,592
User ID: 896,469
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
I believe that an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
I also believe in rehabilitation and think disenfranchisement is unconstitutional.
I also believe we have an ethical responsibility to act better the the prisoners we intern.
You can't really rehabilitate someone by actively exploiting them.
Prison labor is big business - folks are making millions by exploiting people. I'm not ok with this.
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
|
|
Link to this post
|
Tych2
Title: Obama Appointed Outpost Czar
Posts:
40,411
Registered:
Mar 1, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,378
User ID: 1,032,223
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
|
It doesn't matter what you pay them. You make sure its whatever you pay them that is what it costs to "rehabilitate" them. So they get nothing for their crime.
-----signature-----
We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
Drevid in Tanks
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Taliesihne posted:
And earlier parole.
And access to the prison amentieis.
Etc., etc.
None of that stuff should depend on whether or not you volunteer to be exploited.
I think your view of prison and prisoners is somewhat skewed.
I have two close friends who are corrections officers.
My father was a parole officer for over 30 years.
These folks tell a very different story than the one you're telling Tali.
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Taliesihne posted:
I believe that an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
I also believe in rehabilitation and think disenfranchisement is unconstitutional.
I also believe we have an ethical responsibility to act better the the prisoners we intern.
You can't really rehabilitate someone by actively exploiting them.
Prison labor is big business - folks are making millions by exploiting people. I'm not ok with this.
Prisoners cost the state and everyone of us by way of our taxes, billions. Criminals exploit society and every individual with their actions. At least the prisoners get something for their efforts, where society still pays for them regardless.
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts:
36,223
Registered:
Feb 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 30,592
User ID: 896,469
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
It's our obligation as a society to bear the costs of enforcing our laws.
It's not an excuse to permanently strip someone of their right to be a member of society - to permanently cast them as an underclass to be exploited. It's not constitutional and it's also just not ethical.
I'm all for a job training program that gives prisoners a skill they can use when they get out prison. I'm not for exploiting that labor pool for profit.
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Taliesihne posted:
It's our obligation as a society to bear the costs of enforcing our laws.
I agree. I think financial restitution by criminals is a good plan too.
Taliesihne posted:
It's not an excuse to permanently strip someone of their right to be a member of society - to permanently cast them as an underclass to be exploited. It's not constitutional and it's also just not ethical.
I agree that having a prison record often unfairly keeps an ex-con from rejoining society, but those in favor of knowing if they're going to hire someone who has been convicted of robbery or whatnot, have a point too.
Taliesihne posted:
I'm all for a job training program that gives prisoners a skill they can use when they get out prison. I'm not for exploiting that labor pool for profit.
In a lot of cases simply having a routine where they get up in the morning, go to work, follow instructions, don't punch their fkn supervisor, etc. is lacking in the life experience of criminals.
Now I will agree that private enterprise should not be involved with prison labor. Prison labor should be used to perform public works - infrastructure building, providing goods and services to be used by government and/or military (a lot of prison labor is in fact in the manufacture of military equipment). The real problem is the involvement of private enterprise with what would otherwise be a State function - this is of course, an extension of the fascist tendencies of America over the last 60 years or more perhaps. However, none of that has anything to do with the wage prisoners earn.
If it were up to me, prisoners would still earn $0.25/hour as they do now, but it would be ALL "public" work rather than work for private contractors selling siht back to our government...
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
Voodoo-Dahl
Posts:
14,875
Registered:
May 11, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,135
User ID: 677,792
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
|
There should be no financial incentive to keep people imprisoned, you mindless fucks.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Elocism
Title: Pseudonym
Posts:
25,124
Registered:
May 3, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 18,742
User ID: 675,144
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
|
what am i supposed to be seeing?
-----signature-----
you are broken now
but faith can heal you
just do everything i tell you to do
|
|
Link to this post
|
ZigmundZag
Title: Grammar Nazi
Posts:
25,948
Registered:
Mar 25, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 22,707
User ID: 661,552
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Elocism posted:
what am i supposed to be seeing?
I had to look up the news story on it. One of the cow's spots has been altered by prisoners to look like a pig.
-----signature-----
"Take the cheese to sickbay!"
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
When you see it...
|
Voodoo-Dahl posted:
There should be no financial incentive to keep people imprisoned, you mindless [mod]s.
I agree.
I don't agree that having prisoners rehabilitated through prison work programs is a financial incentive to keep them imprisoned. I call that rehabilitation and remuneration.
If prisoners were paid minimum wage for their labor and then billed against that for their housing and upkeep, they'd still owe money, that is just for their lodging and says nothing for the costs to the state of investigation, arrest, prosecution, and handling appeals.
Now, if you want to talk about the war on drugs and how many people are imprisoned as part of that, well I'll agree that the war on drugs is doing nobody any good, but even if you removed all the war on drugs prisoners you'd still be stuck rehabilitating lots of other criminals - and I would agree that such work programs are a pretty decent step towards that in some cases.
Finally, I would argue that if you cannot see prison work programs as anything other than financial incentive to keep people imprisoned, you are the mindless one.
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
