Kamdar
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Is it time to get rid of Affirmative Action?
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I no longer think that there is a need for it.
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Allstarslacker
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Why do you think that?
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Kamdar
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Allstarslacker posted:
Why do you think that?
Well..I think that to get this country back on course, the best need to be rewarded for thier efforts. Too many times people are getting rejected from schools, etc based solely upon thier race. Too many times firefighters, policemen, etc have to lower thier standards of testing due to too many failures in a certain race.
This isn't a black/white/brown thing.
Kids aren't accepted into thier school of choice based upon a quota for this race or that race.
Why does there need to be be multiple standards based solely upon race? Isn't that racism pure and simple?
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Moe_Nox
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You are late to the debate. Its been time for a decade plus now.
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Allstarslacker
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What do you think the goal of Affirmative Action is?
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Moe_Nox
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To troll elderly white conservatives?
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Sansfear
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Is it time to get rid of Affirmative Action?
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Kamdar posted:
Allstarslacker posted:
Why do you think that?
Well..I think that to get this country back on course, the best need to be rewarded for thier efforts. Too many times people are getting rejected from schools, etc based solely upon thier race. Too many times firefighters, policemen, etc have to lower thier standards of testing due to too many failures in a certain race.
This isn't a black/white/brown thing.
Kids aren't accepted into thier school of choice based upon a quota for this race or that race.
Why does there need to be be multiple standards based solely upon race? Isn't that racism pure and simple?
Why do you hate brown people, you racist?
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paulg_68
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At present, affirmative action causes more problems than it solves. Even for the groups it is supposed to help.
The tool you start a job with is not usually the best tool for finishing the job.
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Clackdor
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References?
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GrilledCheez
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what is best? best education? best attitude? best work ethic? best looking? best charisma?
Your world view is simplistic and sad. I am not one hundred percent for AA, but the idea that there is no problem it is attempting to solve is absurd.
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theredkay1
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Kamdar posted:
Why does there need to be be multiple standards based solely upon race? Isn't that racism pure and simple?
Setting up a measurement system is problematic. It is a wild leap to assume that your measurement system is the perfect way to select people who will be the best fit.
If you accept that the test you devised, while the best you can come up, is not a perfect way to find the best applicants....you open yourself up to adjustments. The job of firefighting is pretty different than the tests they run you through. College isnt like the SAT's.
If a test is devised and the result is white people dominating...why do you assume that the test must be perfect?
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Aerlinthian
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Affirmative Action is just as repugnant, anti-American, anti liberty and racist as the Jim Crow south was.
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paulg_68
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If you want to build a road through a mountainous area, using some dynamite isn't a bad idea... at the start of the project. If 40 years later you're still using dynamite and scratching your head wondering why the road isn't finished, it's not hard to figure out that you should have switched to a different tool a long time ago.
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Yukishiro1
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Kamdar posted:
Too many times people are getting rejected from schools, etc based solely upon thier race. Too many times firefighters, policemen, etc have to lower thier standards of testing due to too many failures in a certain race.
This isn't a black/white/brown thing.
Kids aren't accepted into thier school of choice based upon a quota for this race or that race.
Why does there need to be be multiple standards based solely upon race? Isn't that racism pure and simple?
Basically none of that happens and you're living in a fantasy land if you think tons of white people are suffering because of AA. Your post is basically proof that AA in some form is still needed.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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The people who created the civil right act said there were no quotas or "affirmative action" in it. One said he would eat the bill if a someone could find a single phrase that allowed quotas. Somehow the courts found it anyway.
It is time to end it? Heck, there was never a time it should have been applied. It is a help for someone never hurt; and punishment to someone who never hurt anyone. It has done more to create racial hate than any single problem that ever existed.
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Yukishiro1
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Quotas are illegal under the constitution and always have been.
Ignorance does not create truth.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Quotas are illegal under the constitution and always have been.
Ignorance does not create truth.
So what do you call it when a private construction firm bidding on a government contract must provide proof that they do AT LEAST X amount of their subcontract business with "women or minority owned" businesses for the project?
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imaloon1
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Well not always 
Sorry I just couldn't resist.
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Yukishiro1
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Kamdar was talking about admissions tests and that sort of thing. Not contracting rights.
P.S. The constitutionality of those is still pretty up in the air. The DC circuit just struck down one of those schemes. In general they are only ok when you can point to extremely persuasive evidence of discrimination that needs to be remedied via legislation.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Kamdar was talking about admissions tests and that sort of thing. Not contracting rights.
P.S. The constitutionality of those is still pretty up in the air. The DC circuit just struck down one of those schemes. In general they are only ok when you can point to extremely persuasive evidence of past discrimination.
Yeah I understand that I sort of spun the argument off. Presently there are private "watchdog" groups that make a stink over affirmative action stuff and make a public relations nightmare for organizations (schools, companies, etc.) not up to par with their "diversity" issues but unless there is a history of discrimination, I wasn't aware that such diversity requirements were the purview of the government - EXCEPT in those contract situations...
My brother in law is a project manager for a big construction firm and sang the blues to me about all that stuff not too long ago - that they had to pay double and triple price for some things just to get their women/minority owned percentage of business quota up to par for the contract. It may well have been a New Jersey STATE issue rather than a federal issue with him too. In NJ, apparently the women/minority owned businesses have learned that they can take advantage of the quotas and gouge pretty hard - according to my B.I.L. anyway.
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Rikarus
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it's to bad the AA crowd is mostly just people who wanna go arglebargle anytime someone says something about their freebee program, otherwise we could actually make it into something that helps EVERYONE who needs help.
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Kamdar
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Kamdar posted:
Too many times people are getting rejected from schools, etc based solely upon thier race. Too many times firefighters, policemen, etc have to lower thier standards of testing due to too many failures in a certain race.
This isn't a black/white/brown thing.
Kids aren't accepted into thier school of choice based upon a quota for this race or that race.
Why does there need to be be multiple standards based solely upon race? Isn't that racism pure and simple?
Basically none of that happens and you're living in a fantasy land if you think tons of white people are suffering because of AA. Your post is basically proof that AA in some form is still needed.
Actually..this isnt about white.
This stemmed from a story where an Asian kid with perfect SAT scores didn't get into Harvard due to them meeting thier quota and needed other races for diversity. UT @ Austin does this all the time and the Texas Supreme COurt actually upheld it.
City of Austin recently had to lower thier standards for testing in the Police and Fire Academy for lack of qualifying applicants that weren't white or hispanic.
Why do we, as a nation, need to lower our standards to let ANYONE take a certain job/attend a certain college based upon race?
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dae_trist
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The canned response you will get is that the kid apparently didn't do enough on extracurriculars but that's patently BS, as student investigation teams made up of non-Asians have consistently found bias at whatever top schools they're able to investigate.
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Yukishiro1
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Harvard doesn't use quotas, nor does any other university in the country.
No one is ever forced to hire an unqualified person because of their skin color.
Basically you're just wrong about everything. I suspect you're being fed a bunch of crap by some right-wing website that is distorting reality.
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dae_trist
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They don't use quotas but they have other policies in place that essentially serve the same function
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Yukishiro1
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Yes and no.
Basically how much AA programs at both universities and employers work these days is they look at qualified applicants for the job and if there are two qualified applicants and one is part of some underrepresented demographic that one tends to get the nod. Harvard is not accepting unqualified students in order to boost its minority numbers. Harvard gets 10x as many academically qualified applicants as it can take so it has to decide on things other than just academic qualification.
P.S. Having perfect SAT scores has never been and should not be a ticket to any school you want. SAT scores are one piece of an application and probably not even the most important piece.
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dae_trist
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I suppose that's somewhat true - it's a problem that a lot of East Asians are just overqualified for Harvard, I guess. Either that or they lowered their standards too much.
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Yukishiro1
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The kid in Kamdar's story almost certainly got into at least 5 other top colleges. I think there are better people to feel sorry for if we want to feel sorry about people getting screwed by society.
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Sansfear
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Yes and no.
Basically how much AA programs at both universities and employers work these days is they look at qualified applicants for the job and if there are two qualified applicants and one is part of some underrepresented demographic that one tends to get the nod. Harvard is not accepting unqualified students in order to boost its minority numbers. Harvard gets 10x as many academically qualified applicants as it can take so it has to decide on things other than just academic qualification.
That is complete semantic bullshit.
Your argument is that, since they are all 'qualified', you can pick whomever you want and tell yourself that you aren't discriminating. It doesn't matter if you discriminate against Whites and Asians in favor of Blacks and Hispanics with lower scores.
Colleges pick lesser-qualified applicants because they fit into an under-represented demographic over better qualified students of over-represented demographics. That is the very definition of racial discrimination. This hits Asians much harder than anyone else.
Go look at median test scores of admitted students by race. You'll find there is 300+ point differences between Asian and Black students (with Whites and Hispanics in the middle)
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dae_trist
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Yukishiro1 posted:
The kid in Kamdar's story almost certainly got into at least 5 other top colleges. I think there are better people to feel sorry for if we want to feel sorry about people getting screwed by society.
Yeah, but those black kids that got into Harvard in his place could have gotten admitted into 5 other good schools too.
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GrilledCheez
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dae_trist posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
The kid in Kamdar's story almost certainly got into at least 5 other top colleges. I think there are better people to feel sorry for if we want to feel sorry about people getting screwed by society.
Yeah, but those black kids that got into Harvard in his place could have gotten admitted into 5 other good schools too.
Right so who cares? I think that was exactly Yuki's point.
I have no problem with racial quotas though. There was probably more than one asian that didn't get in. Maybe more than one hundred. They can blame race all they want. At the end of the day some asians got in, but they didn't. Maybe they should look at that instead of cry about race.
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Yukishiro1
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Sansfear posted:
Your argument is that, since they are all 'qualified', you can pick whomever you want and tell yourself that you aren't discriminating. It doesn't matter if you discriminate against Whites and Asians in favor of Blacks and Hispanics with lower scores.
Well that wasn't my argument but I think your reaction against it is pretty telling. If the students are qualified isn't that what's important?
Do you always hire the "most qualified" worker as demonstrated by some objective test score? I really doubt it.
A lot of you people with racial angst get upset about the most pointless things. If some black kid with a 1450 SAT got in and some white kid with a 1500 SAT didn't that is hardly the end of the world and it hardly shows much of anything. You get so obsessed about vague gradiations of who's "more" qualified and miss the bigger picture. Collegse admit students they think will make good students. A lot of things go into that, including family background. I wish we lived in a world where race was irrelevant but we don't. And nobody but idiots like you think people are actually better off being black in our country.
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dae_trist
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GrilledCheez posted:
Right so who cares? I think that was exactly Yuki's point.
I have no problem with racial quotas though. There was probably more than one asian that didn't get in. Maybe more than one hundred. They can blame race all they want. At the end of the day some asians got in, but they didn't. Maybe they should look at that instead of cry about race.
But if no one cares, you should just default to going by merit (i.e GPAs, test scores, and probably extracurriculars). The blacks that can get into Harvard and pay for it are not victims of anything except their own whining. Usually the difference between "Asians" that got in and "Asians" that didn't is something completely arbitrary.
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dae_trist
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Yukishiro1 posted:
[
Well that wasn't my argument but I think your reaction against it is pretty telling. If the students are qualified isn't that what's important?
Do you always hire the "most qualified" worker as demonstrated by some objective test score? I really doubt it.
A lot of you people with racial angst get upset about the most pointless things. If some black kid with a 1450 SAT got in and some white kid with a 1500 SAT didn't that is hardly the end of the world and it hardly shows much of anything. You get so obsessed about vague gradiations of who's "more" qualified and miss the bigger picture. Collegse admit students they think will make good students. A lot of things go into that, including family background. I wish we lived in a world where race was irrelevant but we don't. And nobody but idiots like you think people are actually better off being black in our country.
The thing is even matching for essays, extracurriculars, etc the investigators found a consistent bias against Asian applicants. The scope of the argument extends beyond AA for applicants, non-Asians are more likely to default on student loans and effectively pass the costs on to people who are least likely to (Asians), generally speaking.
But the most prominent issue is that "Asians" are, according to social engineers, "paying" for the sins of white people with their spots. It'd make far more sense to exempt Asians completely and just throw out white applications for the poor rich blacks and Hispanics at Harvard or Princeton.
The thing is AA (for schools at least) doesn't actually seem to benefit anyone. People who can't take the workload default to easier majors or drop out entirely, and the "underrepresented minorities" that get in on merit alone have no problem paying off their debts and getting good grades.
The whole point is to exclude competition and preserve the racial character of the Ivys for the sake of white students and alums.
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dae_trist posted:
The blacks that can get into Harvard and pay for it are not victims of anything except their own whining.
That statement makes zero sense.
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dae_trist
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When you think marginalized, does a well-off black kid whose parents earn >$150,000 come to mind? Or a poor white that was maybe abused by alcoholic parents, or Southeast Asian boat people? Blacks are favored and coddled across the board by white liberals, even when they're successful. The types that are in Harvard and can afford tuition are rarely the down and out ghetto survivors people want to believe they are.
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GrilledCheez
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dae_trist posted:
When you think marginalized, does a wealthy black kid whose parents earn >$150,000 come to mind? Blacks are favored and coddled across the board by white liberals, even when they're successful.
hahahaha. It is so funny to see people like you make arguments like this, because they are self defeating. Yes kids like that don't need favors. Kids not like that may need advantages. If only there was a good way to target a large percentage of kids like that, and also target specific cultural centers in america that may be disadvantaged and try to help them help themselves, particularly if that culture grew out of situations caused by systemic historic racism and discrimination... oh wait.
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dae_trist
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I don't think the race card is going to work with me, GC. I'm all in favor of investing in impoverished hellholes across America regardless off race to bring them up to standard in terms of academic achievement (or at least try). This would be far more costly than affirmative action but IMO they'd yield better returns.
K-12 is not working well for a large number of students and handing admissions to underqualified and unprepared individuals is not the way to solve a deeply entrenched problem, especially when its at the expense of a group of people who did well in spite of all challenges.
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GrilledCheez
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hahaha talking about race in an AA thread is playing the race card now? I have considered that a weaksauce retort before, but never as much as now.
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dae_trist
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It applies. You're implying that "Asians" didn't face "historic racism and discrimination". We can toss that one out the window and get back to the beginning, there's no reason why "Asians" should pay for the sins of whites, or the good grades of other "Asians".
Please explain to me what kind of "historic racism and discrimination" Asians subjected whites to.
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GrilledCheez
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I assume it is related to driving.
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dae_trist
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Funny, but if I posted "I assume its related to fried chicken" I'd be branded a racist.
BTW Asians are better drivers than whites and especially blacks and Hispanics, unless you consider killing yourself and your passengers a mark of skill.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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I support adjusting AA but not removing it. We still have systemic race related problems in this country.
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theredkay1
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dae_trist posted:
BTW Asians are better drivers than whites and especially blacks and Hispanics, unless you consider killing yourself and your passengers a mark of skill.
When will we end the affirmative action campaign that allows so many white people to drive......
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paulg_68
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dae_trist posted:
BTW Asians are better drivers than whites and especially blacks and Hispanics, unless you consider killing yourself and your passengers a mark of skill.
Asians are better at math and worse at driving. Also they have small peens.
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dae_trist
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Oh yeah, 5.01 > 5.1 +
Good driving is killing yourself, pedestrians and passengers
Being "good at math" means destroying native speakers in a foreign language
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Sea_of_inK
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Sansfear posted:
Go look at median test scores of admitted students by race. You'll find there is 300+ point differences between Asian and Black students (with Whites and Hispanics in the middle)
I wonder why that could be? 
I'd say you just about answered the question.
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Sea_of_inK posted:
I wonder why that could be?
Easy, standards are lower for blacks.
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Kamdar
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If race isn't an issue for College Applications...why is it on the application packet?
It isn't for State/Federal jobs...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/14/us/14admissions.html?pagewanted=all
In here there is a Dean at Rice in Houston that states race does make a difference.. whether it is right or wrong.
And Yuki, I don't listen to talk radio, cept Jeff Ward out of Austin, Tx. And he certainly isn't RWN.
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Sea_of_inK
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dae_trist posted:
Sea_of_inK posted:
I wonder why that could be?
Easy, standards are lower for blacks.
That wasn't what I was getting at.
Why are standards lower for blacks?
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dae_trist
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Because white liberals serve two simultaneous interests by doing so:
1) they get to pat themselves on the back for being soooooo kind to blacks and Hispanics
2) they get to exclude people they see as a threat to the pocketbooks and GPA curves of their spoiled brats
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Sea_of_inK
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You either don't know the answer or you're running from it.
It's one of the same things that explains our incredibly skewed prison populations. Hopefully in my lifetime I'll see the end of AA, but we're not there yet.
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dae_trist
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I guess we can throw some random Asian people into jail whenever a black guy commits a felony, because of historical racism?
I mean if you are absolutely certain AA is needed to address racism whites have inflicted on others, the obvious answer would be to punish whites, not "Asians", with affirmative action (as far as college admissions are concerned).
Otherwise you're implying that Asians are "the oppressors", and judging by how no one was able to rebut that point I'm thinking their racist jabs about "penis size" and "driving" are about as good as they've got.
So I'm going to ask again what exactly it was that "Asians" did to white people (especially rich white people) that was so bad.
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Yukishiro1
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dae_trist posted:
The blacks that can get into Harvard and pay for it are
Very rare.
The amount of black people on financial aid at Harvard is probably well over 85%.
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dae_trist
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afaik the vast majority of people at Harvard are on financial aid. In fact everyone under $200,000 family income gets some kind of aid, afaik
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Yukishiro1
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So your point was pretty stupid. Glad we agree on that.
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dae_trist
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I didn't say pay the full $200,000. The vast majority of blacks who qualify based on SATs and GPA are upper income blacks, unless you're now going to shoot yourself in the foot (as a liberal) and claim that blacks alone buck the trend. That would kind of destroy what I assume is your position on the SATs and how they relate to socioeconomic status.
I thought you understood that much.
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Sea_of_inK
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Nobody is being punished, but you will disagree.
Good job with the correct answer btw, which was historical racism. Hundreds of years of slavery doesn't sound like a fun thing to experience as a people. I don't foresee myself looking back at the times of AA after its passing and feeling sadness for the plight of the Asians who didn't get accepted into their reach school.
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Yukishiro1
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dae_trist posted:
I didn't say pay the full $200,000. The vast majority of blacks who qualify based on SATs and GPA
I don't even know what you're talking about. What do you think "qualifying" based on SATs and GPA is? Harvard doesn't publish numbers about what you need to be qualified.
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... so you're saying Harvard doesn't look at GPAs and SATs? Alright then, lets put it in a way that you can't wiggle out of based on asinine semantics, blacks at Harvard tend to be well-off, relatively speaking.
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Yukishiro1
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More well-off than other blacks? Sure.
Compared to their peers at Harvard? Hardly.
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dae_trist
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Sea_of_inK posted:
Nobody is being punished, but you will disagree.
Good job with the correct answer btw, which was historical racism. Hundreds of years of slavery doesn't sound like a fun thing to experience as a people. I don't foresee myself looking back at the times of AA after its passing and feeling sadness for the plight of the Asians who didn't get accepted into their reach school.
I don't foresee you feeling sadness for the "plight" of any "Asians", period. It's nice that you can completely dehumanize 3 billion people because they don't serve as posterchildren for your political viewpoints. Of course, many white liberals have inexhaustible pathos for poor blacks whose parents earn around $100,000 a year.
But that's beside the point. I'm sure you'd claim to feel less pity for entitled, snot-nosed white brats at top schools, so why not give their spots to blacks?
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dae_trist
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Yukishiro1 posted:
More well-off than other blacks? Sure.
Compared to their peers at Harvard? Hardly.
If by peers you mean "whites and Jews at Harvard" you are right, but there are a lot of poor Southeast Asians and Chinese who make it without handouts and constant affirmation and ass-kissing. Again, their experience is quite to the contrary.
Which again begs the question of why Asians are bearing the cost of affirmative action, and not whites. If racism is the case you're making, you will have to demonstrate Asian racism against whites, because that's all it really boils down to.
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"templars heal for like 300-400 a heal"
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__Bonk__
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No its not. Its time to stop abuses to it.
There is still prejudice going on. If reverse prejudice exists that must be stopped
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Friarspam
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I never owned a slave. None of you has ever been a slave. In fact, none of you know ANYONE who would fit into those categories.
/AA is just more crap to reward the worthless. Some of you act like brown people all need to be coddled. Why don't you try telling that to some black people who have MADE something of themselves? Is it because you think they don't exist? They do. It is an insult to them to treat everything like we're back on the plantation.
/shame on you, racists
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Rosaria
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So in one OP thread we have people crying over the plight of Asian workers entrapped by their governments and in another thread we have Fuck the Asians!
I see.
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Yukishiro1
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Only if "boo hoo, one Asian kid didn't get into Harvard" equals "fuck the Asians!" 
Incidentally, many kinds of Asians do get a boost from AA policies. Indonesians, Filipinos, Pacific Islanders, Burmese, Cambodians for instance.
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Rosaria
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You of all people, Yuki. You and I have discussed how Asians have lost AA desks and you used that argument against someone who accused you for going to one of the most premiere law schools in the country because you were given an AA desk. Do you remember that conversation?
Edit: Where did you get your statistic of 'one Asian"?
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Yukishiro1
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Of course. But what's it got to do with anything?
Japanese and Chinese kids probably get hurt by AA as much as or more than whites. I don't buy dae_twat's comments about harvard because there arn't nearly as many asians there but it's certainly true of the UCs that being East Asian probably hurts you.
But it does help lots of other Asian groups that frankly need the help more.
edit: The "one asian" was Kamdar's original whine. Some Asian kid with "perfect SATs" didn't get into Harvard and this is an OUTRAGE!
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theredkay1
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Friarspam posted:
I never owned a slave. None of you has ever been a slave. In fact, none of you know ANYONE who would fit into those categories.
/AA is just more crap to reward the worthless. Some of you act like brown people all need to be coddled. Why don't you try telling that to some black people who have MADE something of themselves? Is it because you think they don't exist? They do. It is an insult to them to treat everything like we're back on the plantation.
/shame on you, racists
These are the best kinds of race rants. Brown people are largely worthless...its insulting to brown people to recognize inequality exists......that said its everyone else who is racist!
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Bonzoboy1
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I'm just happy the voters of California ended AA and the state Supreme Court upheld it.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Of course. But what's it got to do with anything?
Japanese and Chinese kids probably get hurt by AA as much as or more than whites. I don't buy dae_twat's comments about harvard because there arn't nearly as many asians there but it's certainly true of the UCs that being East Asian probably hurts you.
But it does help lots of other Asian groups that frankly need the help more.
edit: The "one asian" was Kamdar's original whine. Some Asian kid with "perfect SATs" didn't get into Harvard and this is an OUTRAGE!
I understand about the UCs, I don't like it but I understand it. I also agree that Japenese and Chinese kids get hurt by AA as much or more than whites. That is completely unfair and contrary to the spirit of AA and that is my objection.
If I had perfect SAT scores Harvard would not be on my list of schools I would apply to.
I read Kamdar's article which would be comical if it wasn't so pathetic. Is that really how school governing bodies make decisions about who goes to their school and who doesn't?
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Is it time to get rid of Affirmative Action?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Of course. But what's it got to do with anything?
Japanese and Chinese kids probably get hurt by AA as much as or more than whites. I don't buy dae_twat's comments about harvard because there arn't nearly as many asians there but it's certainly true of the UCs that being East Asian probably hurts you.
You're not making sense. You claim Harvard (or Princeton, or wherever else) is less likely to use AA because there are what, fewer East Asians? Harvard undergrad is 17% "Asian". If they were to stop employing AA that percentage would rise.
Yuki posted:
But it does help lots of other Asian groups that frankly need the help more.
"Asian" isn't a race. And "needing help" doesn't mean you deserve to have things handed to you, especially if AA is designed to help rich white brats protect themselves from competition. You still refuse to acknowledge the point about whites benefiting from AA vs. East Asians, so I presume you agree or concede defeat.
Yuki posted:
edit: The "one asian" was Kamdar's original whine. Some Asian kid with "perfect SATs" didn't get into Harvard and this is an OUTRAGE!
And some entitled white brat or black kid that snorted crack instead of studying didn't get shuttled into the best school with a full ride, OUTRAGE!
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Thugoneous
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Z-Elder
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Is it time to get rid of Affirmative Action?
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GrilledCheez posted:
I assume it is related to driving.
Um Dae, ease up. With all you toss around that lil GC shot was quite good!
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dae_trist
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No, it wasn't. Stereotypes have to be based in reality to be funny, like how whites fuck their blood relatives and how blacks suck at math... and reading, and writing, and science, and basic human decency.
But the "Asian driver" thing is completely made up, and sustained only on stupidity.
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Sea_of_inK
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dae_trist
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You're just not edgy enough to appreciate my comedy !!!
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Groucho48
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I just read somewhere that the EEOC had a record number of complaints last year. It was just a factoid with no background, but, it woul;d seem to indicate that maybe there is still a need for AA.
Meanwhile this oldie but goodie is always fun to add to any AA discussion...
Anyhow, Prof. Katznelson described a lunch he had with Irving Kristol back during the first Bush administration. The talk turned to William Kristol, then Dan Quayle's chief of staff, and how he got his start in politics. Irving recalled how he talked to his friend Harvey Mansfield at Harvard, who secured William a place there as both an undergrad and graduate student; how he talked to Pat Moynihan, then Nixon's domestic policy adviser, and got William an internship at The White House; how he talked to friends at the RNC and secured a job for William after he got his Harvard Ph.D.; and how he arranged with still more friends for William to teach at UPenn and the Kennedy School of Government. With that, Prof. Katznelson recalled, he then asked Irving what he thought of affirmative action. "I oppose it", Irving replied. "It subverts meritocracy."
William Kristol has been wrong about everything for decades. He also inflicted Sarah Palin on an unprepared country. As long as we are complaining about AA, shouldn't we complain about this kind?
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dae_trist
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I don't see how they're related, again, as white scumbags like him aren't affected at all by affirmative action. Good, hard-working, honest East Asian kids are. By all means toss those shameless white pigfuckers out and replace them with people who are actually intelligent or needy.
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Groucho48
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dae_trist posted:
I don't see how they're related, again, as white scumbags like him aren't affected at all by affirmative action. Good, hard-working, honest East Asian kids are. By all means toss those shameless white pigfuckers out and replace them with people who are actually intelligent or needy.
I'm just pointing out that there are several varieties of affirmative action but that conservatives only complain about the one that helps minorities.
My understanding was that many major universities had limits on the number of Jews and Asians long before affirmative action came along.
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dae_trist
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They did indeed. Anyone arguing PRO affirmative action, at the college level and especially at places like Harvard which are infested with white conservative scum, are essentially backing an institution that serves only to insulate crony whites from competition.
If you really believe affirmative action is needed to lessen the impact of racism, Asians would be exempt and whites would pay for it as they "should" according to doctrine. It's nothing more than the continuation of the "Jew cap" in politically correct garb.
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__Bonk__
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Its clearly not a race thing totally. Its because some communities dont place enough emphasis on education and make their kids study and do their homework.
There is no excuse. Talk to the parents in the black community and ask them why they are failing their kids in the education department
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Rosaria
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Groucho48 posted:
I'm just pointing out that there are several varieties of affirmative action but that conservatives only complain about the one that helps minorities.
Really? I'm complaining about the one that doesn't help minorities, namely Asians.
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NuEM
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It's so cute when non-whites talk about race as if their's mattered. 
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Rosaria
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NuEM posted:
Stoke up the ovens!!11
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NuEM
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Rosaria
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You're very naughty this morning NuEM. 
Edited for unusually elongated EU void-like space
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dae_trist
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NuEM posted:
It's so cute when non-whites talk about race as if their's mattered.
It's cute when inbred subhumans think that their 200 year lucky streak isn't coming to a bloody and horrible end 
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Allstarslacker
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Europe, and people of European decent conquered the world.
Everyone does business our way. Everyone fights our way. European/American culture has become world culture, and it's irreversible.
Race doesn't really matter any more. Our way of life won.
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dae_trist
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Allstarslacker posted:
Europe, and people of European decent conquered the world.
If by "the world" you mean Africa, South America and parts of Southeast Asia
Allstarslacker posted:
Everyone does business our way.
Nope. Ask for details if you like.
Allstarslacker posted:
Everyone fights our way.
No and thank god - European "soldiers" are striking for their complete lack of honor and ability to murder children.
Allstarslacker posted:
European/American culture has become world culture and it's irreversible.
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Z-Elder
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dae_trist posted:
No, it wasn't. Stereotypes have to be based in reality to be funny, like how whites fuck their blood relatives and how blacks suck at math... and reading, and writing, and science, and basic human decency.
But the "Asian driver" thing is completely made up, and sustained only on stupidity.
This has nothing to do with sterotypes. We are talking about Asians. How many Asians even drive? I drove 200,000 miles in Asian countries in the 70s and 80s. I trained Korean and Japanese troops to drive on everything from Jeeps to semi trucks. I know what Asians drive like and what they even know about it.
We are talking about a group of people who are not raised in a family that has taken care of cars and driven for generations. A larger % of them Do suck at driving.
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dae_trist
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That was 2934189048930480394043598324 billion years ago 
Japan and Korea have caught up. High IQ will do that.
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Allstarslacker
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You left out North America. We didn't originate here.
You've got some pretty strong denial. It's ok. I can tell a lot of your identity rests on thinking your race is the best, so it's probably pretty hard to swallow.
I won't hold it against you, but you should really try to work past it.
No one race or nation is going to control the path of the world from here on out. The world is becoming one people, and the old notions of nationalism and racial pride are on their way out.
You're behind the times.
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paulg_68
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Groucho48 posted:
I just read somewhere that the EEOC had a record number of complaints last year. It was just a factoid with no background, but, it woul;d seem to indicate that maybe there is still a need for AA.
Actually it would seem to indicate that it's failing if things are getting worse not better.
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dae_trist
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I don't think the "conquest" of North America counts as a conquest, it's like punching a 6 year old with cancer in the face and claiming you're a big man and won a fair fight.
The simple and sad fact is that your race is inferior, and for precisely that reason we're not going to murder your children or steal your shit even though we'll certainly be able to in maybe 10, 15 years.
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"templars heal for like 300-400 a heal"
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"Eck theurg pets are unstunnable..." -- bryldan
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