Yukishiro1
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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This isn't about BAC-level per se. More about what sort of symptoms you think people need to have to be too drunk to drive safely.
Is a buzz enough? Or do you think it's fine to drive if you're buzzed, just not if you're falling-on-your-ass drunk?
Where should the line be drawn in terms of how much impairment is ok?
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Sin_of_Onin
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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The thing about drinking and driving is that it is a scaling risk factor. You can be totally hammered and get home safe but just buzzed and get in an accident because of that buzz.
IF you are willing to take the risk and drive then getting in trouble is just part of that risk.
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Ptilk
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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When you are too drunk to avoid hitting stuff, you are too drunk to drive.
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Koneg
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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If you do stop to consider whether you're too drunk to drive, then you're too drunk to drive.
If you don't stop to consider whether you're too drunk to drive, then you're too drunk to drive.
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
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Eager_Igraine
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Most people are dangerous when they're completely sober, I consider having had any alcohol having had too much alcohol to drive.
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ZigmundZag
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
The thing about drinking and driving is that it is a scaling risk factor. You can be totally hammered and get home safe but just buzzed and get in an accident because of that buzz.
IF you are willing to take the risk and drive then getting in trouble is just part of that risk.
Or you could be mildly buzzed and get into an accident that was not entirely your fault, but when the breathalyzer comes you're screwed anyhow. Not really worth any risk in my opinion. But I've had DWIs before because of youthful stupidity and don't want to get into that again (fortunately I was in the military overseas and didn't have to pay thousands of dollars in fines like most people do).
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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I think everyone handles their alcohol differently. There's no universal symptom (other than, you know crashing your car), but there should be a quantifiable standard so we can uphold the law fairly.
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Sin_of_Onin
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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ZigmundZag posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
The thing about drinking and driving is that it is a scaling risk factor. You can be totally hammered and get home safe but just buzzed and get in an accident because of that buzz.
IF you are willing to take the risk and drive then getting in trouble is just part of that risk.
Or you could be mildly buzzed and get into an accident that was not entirely your fault, but when the breathalyzer comes you're screwed anyhow. Not really worth any risk in my opinion. But I've had DWIs before because of youthful stupidity and don't want to get into that again (fortunately I was in the military overseas and didn't have to pay thousands of dollars in fines like most people do).
That is just part of the risk IMO. It is a choice to get behind the wheel and if you are even a little drunk there can be serious consequences that far exceed fines or losing a liscense.
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Yukishiro1
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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As long as you don't have breathalyzers installed on every car there's no way for the average person to know what their BAC is until they actually get pulled over, though. So I'm not sure how much good a quantifiable number really does.
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Yukishiro1
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
That is the risk you take IMO.
That's all well and good but doesn't really get to the question. I mean, you can say someone drunk off their ass is just taking a risk too, but we don't let them take the risk as long as they pay for the damage they cause. Primarily because there are other parties involved.
I guess to be more clear the question is where the limit should be set. Do you think a slight buzz should be enough to make driving criminal or only pretty serious impairment?
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Sin_of_Onin
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
That is the risk you take IMO.
That's all well and good but doesn't really get to the question. I mean, you can say someone drunk off their ass is just taking a risk too, but we don't let them take the risk as long as they pay for the damage they cause. Primarily because there are other parties involved.
I guess to be more clear the question is where the limit should be set. Do you think a slight buzz should be enough to make driving criminal or only pretty serious impairment?
I changed that sentence because my meaning was confusing.
I don't think there is a real answer to your question but a general approach should involve a sliding scale of penalties that involve how drunk a person is and how often they repeat the behavior. The scale should be based on studies as much as possible.
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Ptilk
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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The problem with arbitrary limits is....they are arbitrary.
Some people shouldn't be allowed to drive with no booze in their system, they are a menace and it's just a matter of time till they kill someone.
Others can get home safely with 4 times the current legal limit of booze in their system.
The problem isn't drinking and driving....it's stupid people allowed to control multi-tons of metal traveling at high rates of speed inches from other stupid people doing the same thing.
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Bjorvald
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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If I've had more than 1 drink I just don't drive. Period.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Bjorvald posted:
If I've had more than 1 drink I just don't drive. Period.
Exactly. After more than 1 drink every 2 hours, you immediately hand your keys over with the 2nd drink (or otherwise stash them so that you remember... it ain't time to drive).
Once you've gotten to that 2nd or 3rd drink, you're really not able to make the decision, anymore.
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MatrexMistwalker
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Any drinking simply because some people get more impaired quicker than others.
I liked how my first seargent explained it, you get a DWI/DUI your done you have my number, your supervisors number, your superintendts number, your friends numbers... not to mention taxis/buses... there is no excuse to ever drink and drive. (from my military perspective)
Edit: There are so many options available even on the civy side of life that there is no excuse to ever drive after drinking... where I live Taxis give discounted rates to get people home safely, you choose to go out drinking without a plan to get home your an idiot.
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Sin_of_Onin
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Ptilk posted:
The problem with arbitrary limits is....they are arbitrary.
Some people shouldn't be allowed to drive with no booze in their system, they are a menace and it's just a matter of time till they kill someone.
Others can get home safely with 4 times the current legal limit of booze in their system.
The problem isn't drinking and driving....it's stupid people allowed to control multi-tons of metal traveling at high rates of speed inches from other stupid people doing the same thing.
Of course people can get home safely with 4 times the legal limit. That doesn't mean they will.
It is not like some video special you watched in middle school. People who kill themselves or others while driving drunk are not first time offenders and are not always completely drunk. They may have driven home many times more drunk than they were when they got in the accident.
This is why I keep bringing up risk. Driving drunk is a risk. It is not like there is some line that once crossed leads to instant death. It is in large part random.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
As long as you don't have breathalyzers installed on every car there's no way for the average person to know what their BAC is until they actually get pulled over, though. So I'm not sure how much good a quantifiable number really does.
I mean when it comes to enforcing it. Its the drivers responsiblity to figure it out for themselves. If they suspect they're over the legal limit then they take the risk of getting pulled over. If they suspect they're too intoxicated to drive, they probably shouldn't.
What leads them to this conclusion? Hopefully a strong knowledge of themselves and their limitations.
Saying something like "slurring speech" is a fine measure, but I slur my speech or stutter sometimes stone sober. Sometimes I'm more eloquent having had a drink or four (more importantly, I think I am at the time.)
I've been pulled over for "not driving straight" a few times even I haven't had a drink. (at 3am in a smallish town when the cops are bored, making a left turn constitutes as not driving straight). And I've driven buzzed right by cops looking to pull someone over.
Everyone should know their limits and abide by them, but until that happens, there needs to be a standard and those tasked with enforcing those limits for us have to use their discretion to test those they think have gone beyond them.
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Yukishiro1
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Subject:
What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
As long as you don't have breathalyzers installed on every car there's no way for the average person to know what their BAC is until they actually get pulled over, though. So I'm not sure how much good a quantifiable number really does.
I mean when it comes to enforcing it. Its the drivers responsiblity to figure it out for themselves. If they suspect they're over the legal limit then they take the risk of getting pulled over. If they suspect they're too intoxicated to drive, they probably shouldn't.
What leads them to this conclusion? Hopefully a strong knowledge of themselves and their limitations.
That doesn't match up. How is a strong knowledge of themselves and their limitations goign to tell them whether their BAC is a certain level of not?
I guarantee you most people have no clue what their BAC is and certainly don't make decisions about whether to drive or not based on what they think their BAC is.
Everybody uses some method that involves evaluating how drunk they actually are, not what their BAC might be. I am curious what people think that level of impairment should be. The BAC is after all just a vague proxy for whatever that value is. Saying you shouldn't be above a certain BAC is just question begging because you need to determine what that BAC should be based on something else.
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Manegarm
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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1 beer is one beer too much..
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Yossarian_42
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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I'm pretty sure I don't have some special immunity to alcohol and it takes me 2-3 drinks to even feel the buzz.
If I have 2 drinks an hour I will never reach a buzz, let alone get drunk.
I don't drink anywhere where I am driving anyway, but if I was I wouldn't be concerned unless I had been drinking more than socially. All you have to do is stop drinking half an hour before you go home and your buzz will be gone unless you let yourself get drunk.
My unwillingness to drink and drive is less about a concern for my inability to drive and more for my unwillingness to get in trouble with the law.
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Ptilk
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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I'd never have even a single beer and drive, unless I waited a couple of hours afterward to do so.
Not because I'm afraid of killing someone, but because I have no desire to go to jail.
Our current limits aren't working effectively, and no matter how low they go, even to zero...they still wont keep some people from getting in their cars and driving.
It's a problem with the transportation system more than it is with booze. I'm absolutely confident that more people are impaired on prescription drugs on the roads at this time, then people who are impaired by booze.
I'm also confident your chances of getting killed by a young inexperienced driver are much higher than getting killed by any one drinking or doped up on Rx drugs while driving.
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Taliesihne
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Pretty much what Ptilk said. With my metabolism and weight, how I feel is irrelevant. What the law can do to me despite how functional I am is.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Subject:
What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
As long as you don't have breathalyzers installed on every car there's no way for the average person to know what their BAC is until they actually get pulled over, though. So I'm not sure how much good a quantifiable number really does.
I mean when it comes to enforcing it. Its the drivers responsiblity to figure it out for themselves. If they suspect they're over the legal limit then they take the risk of getting pulled over. If they suspect they're too intoxicated to drive, they probably shouldn't.
What leads them to this conclusion? Hopefully a strong knowledge of themselves and their limitations.
That doesn't match up. How is a strong knowledge of themselves and their limitations goign to tell them whether their BAC is a certain level of not?
I guarantee you most people have no clue what their BAC is and certainly don't make decisions about whether to drive or not based on what they think their BAC is.
Everybody uses some method that involves evaluating how drunk they actually are, not what their BAC might be. I am curious what people think that level of impairment should be. The BAC is after all just a vague proxy for whatever that value is. Saying you shouldn't be above a certain BAC is just question begging because you need to determine what that BAC should be based on something else.
I'm just trying to maintain consistency in my views. My point went to external standards vs internal standards. Everyone should know their limits but they are different for everyone, thus the external standard is required.
I can't speak to anyone else's standards, but I don't drive if I feel different than normal. As I said, I've driven buzzed, in my youth, but would consider that too drunk to drive now. I don't drive now (subway > traffic any day of the week), but I know the stages I go through when I drink. If I'm feeling buzzed, I'd wait half an hour to an hour at least before getting behind the wheel, depending on food.
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PhillsburyBandit
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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It ain't worth it. Just get a ride home. A DUI is no joke that sh*t will ruin your life.
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Kordirn
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Sometimes when I go out to dinner ill get a beer and drive afterwards. That's pretty much my limit. If I plan on drinking heavily I have already made plans for my transportation.
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
ZigmundZag posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
The thing about drinking and driving is that it is a scaling risk factor. You can be totally hammered and get home safe but just buzzed and get in an accident because of that buzz.
IF you are willing to take the risk and drive then getting in trouble is just part of that risk.
Or you could be mildly buzzed and get into an accident that was not entirely your fault, but when the breathalyzer comes you're screwed anyhow. Not really worth any risk in my opinion. But I've had DWIs before because of youthful stupidity and don't want to get into that again (fortunately I was in the military overseas and didn't have to pay thousands of dollars in fines like most people do).
That is just part of the risk IMO. It is a choice to get behind the wheel and if you are even a little drunk there can be serious consequences that far exceed fines or losing a liscense.
there can always be serious consequences for getting behind the wheel, sober or not.
if you can drink and still drive better than the asshole with a cellymaphone glued to his/her ear, then you are fine to drive.
ill stop at the bar after work for a couple beers and maybe a sammich or bowl of soup. after the thousands ive paid for DUIs and lisence issues, i dont ever want to be in that boat again. i wont drink and drive at night. anyone on the road after a certain hour is automatically guilty of DUI and the cops will do their damndest to make sure of that.
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Sea_of_inK
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This question is even more fun with other substances 
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paulg_68
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If you can drive well enough to pass a driving test then you are not too drunk to drive.
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__Bonk__
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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I think its hard for the person drinking to judge when they've had enough. Buzzed driving might be drunk driving like the ads on tv say
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Shimatta33
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Koneg posted:
If you do stop to consider whether you're too drunk to drive, then you're too drunk to drive.
If you don't stop to consider whether you're too drunk to drive, then you're too drunk to drive.
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
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eodoll
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If youre really buzzed.. Then youre drunk and shouldnt drive. Responses re delayed. Thats not to say you cant ge home safe but its risky.
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Bowlartz
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Physics says you should never be under the influence of anything while operating something that weighs as much as cars and move as fast as they do...even 30 MPH. It isn't about the lucky people who make it home, it is about all the extra people who don't make it home.
This from someone who drove home drunk more times than I can even honestly acknowledge (100s) during my 18-22 year old fetish with alcohol. Two DUIs in the same time period were also enough to get me to never do it again, not even one drink. In all those times I never so much as scratched my car, I don't remember getting home at least half the time.
The problem with alcohol is it removes your ability to rationally think about almost everything after even one drink and even if you "feel nothing".
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I_Love_Dragons
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Subject:
What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Any sort of dizzyness at all
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Rhint
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Subject:
What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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More than 1 drink? Don't drive. that is my rule and the rule all people should follow. One beer or glass of wine is not going to impair enough to cause you to have an accident that would not have happened anyhow.
Anything more than 1 is a slippery slope I do not want to tread.
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Moe_Nox
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Koneg pretty much nailed it. However personally while I rarely drink, any drink at all is an absolute no for driving.
If I have had one drink, I do not drive. If anyone else has had one drink, I do not allow them to drive, or at a minimum will not ride with them.
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Jaedence
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Bjorvald posted:
If I've had more than 1 drink I just don't drive. Period.
Which brings up an interesting question:
People go out to dinner all the time. They have a bottle of wine with dinner. They're both now over the legal limit.
The limit is set so low, and alcohol is so demonized in America that every day, just for having a nice dinner with your wife, you can get a DUI.
And yet, couples do it all the time.
My wife and I live in a small town with no taxi service. Thanks to the insane laws in this country, we're supposed to get a designated driver every time we go out to eat? How asinine is that?
Also, I'd like to add that the medical community states that the BAC is a sham because you're not "impaired" at .08 but more like .16.
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sweeny_comodore
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Dui laws aren't about safety.
They are about oppression and revenue
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Allstarslacker
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Honestly I have to be pretty drunk not to drive home, and I've never been so high I wouldn't drive.
I'm not going to try to justify it, and I can't deny any of the risks named. It's just something I do, and I've been doing it for a while.
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Eager_Igraine
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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sweeny_comodore posted:
Dui laws aren't about safety.
They are about oppression and revenue
Right, because if they were really about safety, the cop would administer the breathalyzer and then just shoot the drunk.
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Kjarhall
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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1 drink impairs you. You might not think so, or feel so, but it's fact.
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Yukishiro1
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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Jaedence posted:
People go out to dinner all the time. They have a bottle of wine with dinner. They're both now over the legal limit.
The limit is set so low, and alcohol is so demonized in America that every day, just for having a nice dinner with your wife, you can get a DUI.
And yet, couples do it all the time.
My wife and I live in a small town with no taxi service. Thanks to the insane laws in this country, we're supposed to get a designated driver every time we go out to eat? How asinine is that?
Also, I'd like to add that the medical community states that the BAC is a sham because you're not "impaired" at .08 but more like .16.
You're totally wrong on the science and how about just not drinking a full bottle of wine with dinner? A glass each isn't enough for you? Then find some other way to get home.
The "it's so unfair I can't get drunk and drive! what am I supposed to do?" is like the most embarassing, douchetastic argument ever.
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GrilledCheez
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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I almost always know about what my bac is when I'm drinking. It's not like it's some kind of arcane secret knowledge or anything.
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RHWarrior
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What do you consider to be too drunk to drive?
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If I chug down a 5-6% beer, it's no driving for the rest of the night.
Even if I'm tehnically OK 1-2 hours later.
Maaaybe a small glass of wine, then I'll drive later.
But public transportation is so damn awesome and affordable here I don't have to consider driving if I'm even thinking of downing alcohol.
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