Modeeb posted:

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This demographic is an amorphous set of undecided people. There common characteristic is being undecided.

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Tych2 posted:

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Modeeb posted:

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This demographic is an amorphous set of undecided people. There common characteristic is being undecided.

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This is the very reason your side never gets it. You aren't alone, the other side of you LWNs are RWNS and they don't either.

There ISN'T an issue I don't have a stance on. Try me.

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Modeeb posted:

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People with an ideology dont need to to debate we should join other advanced civilizations in national healthcare.

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Szerek posted:

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Planned obsolescence.

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Modeeb posted:

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If you aren't with us, you're against us!

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Modeeb posted:

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There common characteristic is being undecided. They must be hell to go to a restaurant with.

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Akza posted:

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I think of myself as a bit more liberal, but I've voted for both republicans and democrats.

I'm not registered for either party line so a good candidate can sway me.

Proof: http://www.quiz2d.com/quiz/resultGraph.php?picfile=CentristLibertarian.png&personal=69.2&economic=54.8

I'll be voting for Obama though because he is moderate like I am. Republican candidates are exactly what's wrong with this country. Wall street elitest siphoning off jobs to pad their funds and one who hates the poor and would rather they die in a ditch than help them get on their two feet.

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paulg_68 posted:

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Independents have two candidates to choose from. Party line voters have one.

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Taliesihne posted:

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Never willing to risk.

Never willing to put skin in the game.

Spend all their time criticizing and not collaborating.

If the OP is any indication, this is what Independents are like. They are like the people in school who never contribute to a group project, but take credit for the stuff that works and deride anything that doesn't.

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Modeeb posted:

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And the irony is they are very different in theory, but in practice they are very similar.

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Moe_Nox posted:

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Tali echoes Modeeb's partisanship? I was giving him too much credit I suspect.
You guys can keep your party mentality. I will stick with my issue to issue and subject to subject methodology.
Neither side is always right. Independents understand this.

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Tych2 posted:

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Again you guys just don't get it. You also have to defend your side even when they are wrong or you have to be silent. I'll stick with my way.

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Akza posted:

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Proof: http://www.quiz2d.com/quiz/resultGraph.php?picfile=CentristLibertarian.png&personal=69.2&economic=54.8

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Akza posted:

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I think of myself as a bit more liberal...


I'll be voting for Obama though because he is moderate .................. like I am.

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Akza posted:

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Republican candidates are exactly what's wrong with this country. Wall street elitest siphoning off jobs to pad their funds and one who hates the poor and would rather they die in a ditch than help them get on their two feet.

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Aerlinthian posted:

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People in this country don't even know what "moderate" is anymore.

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Tych2 posted:

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Aerlinthian posted:

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People in this country don't even know what "moderate" is anymore.

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Why don't you teach us as to what a moderate is.

/popcorn

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Tych2 posted:

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Aerlinthian posted:

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People in this country don't even know what "moderate" is anymore.

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Why don't you teach us as to what a moderate is.

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Tych2 posted:

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I comment on political threads because you guys are easiest to troll and to be honest sometimes I don't want to work so hard.

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Tych2 posted:

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Why don't you teach us as to what a moderate is.

/popcorn

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Brother_Tedious posted:

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Moderates aren't mentioned in the Constitution, ergo they are illegal!

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Aerlinthian posted:

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Tych2 posted:

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Aerlinthian posted:

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People in this country don't even know what "moderate" is anymore.

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Why don't you teach us as to what a moderate is.

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Tych2 posted:

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I comment on political threads because you guys are easiest to troll and to be honest sometimes I don't want to work so hard.

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Tych2 posted:

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Tych2 posted:

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Aerlinthian posted:

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People in this country don't even know what "moderate" is anymore.

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Why don't you teach us as to what a moderate is.

/popcorn

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Tych2 posted:

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What is your favorite color?

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Aerlithian posted:

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Blue, no green! Aaaiieeee

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Szerek posted:

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Amirite?

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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:

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Aerli is so scared of Tych's gotcha...

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Voodoo-Dahl posted:

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They're ignorant, easily led, and completely sure of themselves knowing better than everyone else.

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Modeeb posted:

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If Tyche is the capo de independence , you can see some interesting patterns. It's easy to see why they are so confused. They are looking everywhere but to themselves for guidance.

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Modeeb posted:

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How do you feel about national healthcare? If you are for it vote liberal. if you are against it, vote conservative. There you are done and now you can say you are decided.

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Aerlinthian posted:

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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:

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Aerli is so scared of Tych's gotcha...

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Wrong, check the link I provided for the complete context of why I responded to Tych as I did.

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Modeeb posted:

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Here is one rule of thumb: if you are poor or middle class and vote a strait conservative agenda, then you are a wrongheaded pawn, a serf in the fields fighting m'lord.

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Modeeb posted:

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There are a couple of core issues and that's it. Abortion:pro-liberal; con-conservative. Tax wealthy individuals -pro liberal; con conservative. Spend money on infrastructure, pro liberal, con-conservative. Energy, green -liberal ; pollute con. Now when you get down to issues about how much border fence we are going to build, just say: How important is this really-especially compared to how you treat seniors on medicare.. You are going to have a liberal-progressive bent or a backwards- regressive position. You know where you stand. It doesnt make a difference if you are for war or not. those who own the politicians will get a war if they want one. This stuff isn't rocket science, just make your mark.

Here is one rule of thumb: if you are poor or middle class and vote a strait conservative agenda, then you are a wrongheaded pawn, a serf in the fields fighting for m'corporate lord.

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Modeeb posted:

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I dont think you are talking to me, but here is a response.

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Szerek posted:

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Ok, so what am I?

I'm anti-abortion, but I think it should be legal. I personally don't think abortions should happen, but it is also not my place to tell someone else what they can or can't do with an unborn fetus.

I believe that we should all pay an equal percentage of taxes, however, in order to get there our current system needs a serious overhaul. The wealth gap needs to be closed to levels it was in years gone by. In todays world, a person can go to school on taxpayer dollars and then become wealthy adding nothing of value and siphoning off of those who do add value.

I believe everyone has the right to life and the right to life includes the right to medical care. Not this profiteering abomination of a medical system we have now where everyone will be required to BUY medical insurance at inflated prices to line shareholder pockets and if you can't afford it, oh well, just go die quietly so you don't intrude upon the rest of us.

I am also pro-business but severely anti-corporation. Large multinational corporations should be extremely regulated.

I also believe that all public utilities should be public, or if private, they should be truly non-profit with very strict regulations on salaries. I saw here in PA what happened when we deregulated the power industry. We had sunshine pumped up our asses about how much our bills would go down once competition was introduce. My rates went up by 30% Corporate personhood needs to die.

I will stop there. Neither party appeals to me, though in recent years my views have shifted to lean more liberal, but even the "liberals" in politics only pay lip service to us unwashed masses. I believe we live in a system these days that is bigger than us. Something we really can't stop or change with anything short of another American Revolution.

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Modeeb posted:

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Wall street is , indeed, in bed with liberals. Just look at timothy Geithner. But, these backroom dealings are not very liberal or progressive. They are status quo centrist tendencies. If this is your argument, then I agree with you. However, the conservatives celebrate greed like its a gottdam virtue. This is a call between two shitty choices.

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Taliesihne posted:

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My problem with Independents has nothing to do with my own ties to one party.

It has everything to do with Independents not getting off their asses and starting that third party they are always blathering about.

But hey, it's easier to just keep saying 'you guys aren't doing it right' then to actually show us what 'right' looks like.

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Website posted:

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In 2006, independent and minor party candidates were required to collect over 67,000 valid signatures simply to get on the state-wide ballot in Pennsylvania on Election Day. Legally, Democratic and Republican candidates require no signatures to get on the state-wide ballot, and even the 2,000 signatures required for the Primary Day ballot are ridiculously smaller than the virtually impossible hurdle of 67,000.
Pennsylvania law needs to be changed by the State Legislature to lower the outrageous signature requirements. State Senator Mike Folmer has introduced the Voters' Choice Act which would bring about a fairer electoral process.

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Taliesihne posted:

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My problem with Independents has nothing to do with my own ties to one party.

It has everything to do with Independents not getting off their asses and starting that third party they are always blathering about.

But hey, it's easier to just keep saying 'you guys aren't doing it right' then to actually show us what 'right' looks like.

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Taliesihne posted:

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My problem with Independents has nothing to do with my own ties to one party. It has everything to do with Independents not getting off their asses and starting that third party they are always blathering about. But hey, it's easier to just keep saying 'you guys aren't doing it right' then to actually show us what 'right' looks like.

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Taliesihne posted:

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It has everything to do with Independents not getting off their asses and starting that third party they are always blathering about.

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Taliesihne posted:

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I'm not an independent, nor have I ever claimed to be one.

I don't support Ron Paul because he's crazy, end of story.

As far as the 'it's too hard' comments from you other two - . That type of attitude is precisely what I'm mocking.

'It's broken, it's broken. Fix it for me! I shouldn't have to do anything myself' -

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Quote posted:

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Major parties are so anxious to exclude third parties from the ballot that sitting legislators have even engaged in illegal conduct. One former legislator and several Democratic staffers were convicted last year of having Pennsylvania governmental employees do political work on taxpayer time in what became known as Bonusgate. A "veritable army" of state employees was used to work on signature challenges to Green Party candidate Ralph Nader. An even greater effort was used to exclude Carl Romanelli who had filed almost 199,000 signatures. A Delaware County ward leader recently plead guilty to falsifying petition signatures in 2010.

A 2008 grand jury report on campaign abuse noted how burdensome the signature gathering process is. Legal challenges often result in the exclusion of valid signatures because the current rules are so abstruse. Judges overwhelmed by the requirement of reviewing tens of thousands of signatures have tended to side with major parties merely to get such cases off their dockets.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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One of the hard things for people to accept is that politicians have done a decent job of actually doing what the people have demanded.

Independents are just as much to blame for this as partisans.

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Allstarslacker posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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One of the hard things for people to accept is that politicians have done a decent job of actually doing what the people have demanded.

Independents are just as much to blame for this as partisans.

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Maybe of doing what they voted for, but not demanded.

We have 2 real choices on election day. We can vote for one of the parties that may win, or we can vote for one of the other parties that will definitely lose.

The American system was revolutionary when it came about, but now it's old and busted. We have to make some big changes our we will continue to only be able to choose some of the things we want with a bunch of things we don't want.

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Allstarslacker posted:

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Modeeb has identified the symptom, but I don't think he's right about the problem.

The reason there are so many independents isn't because they can't decide. They know what they want they just don't see it.

Do you think they should just settle for the choices they have and pick a side? Are there other aspects of life you would give this advice for?

Our system doesn't present enough choices.

If there were more than 2 major parties there would be a lot less independents.

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