WhipSmack
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 face yawn. I want me some 1000 vs 1000 battles and completely destructible environments, as well as atmospheric space flight, where I can take hundreds of people to the moon. Is this too much to ask for?
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the_great_intex
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Planetside 2 might be pretty cool
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Stormyblade
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WoW has this pretty cool expansion pack that is breathtaking and envelops the player - it's called Cataclysm. 
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Onslaught.
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The biggest problem with MMOS these days is that they try to emulate wow....
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Fairly_Gimp
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Onslaught. posted:
The biggest problem with MMOS these days is that they try to emulate wow....
I find the biggest problem in MMO's today, is people with a hard-on for WoW, who run around screaming "OMG JSUT LIEK WOW!!!!1111OMG!1" without realising around 80% of wow, if not more, is taken from other games...
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NonOffensiveName
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Fairly_Gimp posted:
Onslaught. posted:
The biggest problem with MMOS these days is that they try to emulate wow....
I find the biggest problem in MMO's today, is people with a hard-on for WoW, who run around screaming "OMG JSUT LIEK WOW!!!!1111OMG!1" without realising around 80% of wow, if not more, is taken from other games...
Thats typically what happens though with almost anything popular. Its not about who did it first but who did it the best and made it the most popular. Like most people dont know that there were people who "discovered" the US before Christopher Columbus did but now he is the one most famous for the discovery. Or like how there were theories of evolution published long before Darwin's but his is again the most popular in history. Whitney Houston's song, "I Will Always Love You" was written and performed with success by Dolly Parton long before Whitney sang a note. So stop hating on WoW just for being the best :P
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Terminius_Est
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What are you looking for? All new successful MMORPHs are going to follow the wow model.
Doubt if you'll get many catering to the PvP market if that's what you're looking fore.
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Talehon69
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Guild Wars 2 and TERA look pretty interesting. They're both doing interesting things with combat.
TERA having free-aim combat (push button, do skill infront of you, no targetting)
Guild Wars 2 having combo effects between different classes (Put down a fire wall as an Elementalist, and an Archer shoots through it, now has Fire Arrows)
Looking forward to both. Playing TERA on a Korean server right now actually.
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Hawkson
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Look at how Warhammer catered, in some ways, to PVP and failed miserably due to Mythic's bad decisions.
The genre is now the Gold question mark, Gold exclamation point genre.
It is the model that any MMO, that developers who want to be successful, follow. This is because WoW opened the MMO door to so many people, and they can't handle anything else.
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Sgian_Dubh
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As long as MMO's, WoW included, continue to cater to the lowest common denominator, you will see no innovation in the genre.
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Crafty_ac2
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The Secret World looks interesting. No classes or levels and 3 factions that are against each other during the day but work together at night.
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silvadel2
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Vindictus has destructable environments.
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Sgian_Dubh
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silvadel2 posted:
Vindictus has destructable environments.
And is boring as piss.
Dragon Nest at least gets rid of the complete lack of hotkeys for skills.
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silvadel2
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Sgian_Dubh posted:
silvadel2 posted:
Vindictus has destructable environments.
And is boring as piss.
Dragon Nest at least gets rid of the complete lack of hotkeys for skills.
Actually in that way DN is more of a WoWification of Vindictus...
Having played both I prefer vind to DN.
Vindictus NOT having 2 lines of skills to run through constantly makes it feel more ac-like in play.
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Sgian_Dubh
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silvadel2 posted:
Sgian_Dubh posted:
silvadel2 posted:
Vindictus has destructable environments.
And is boring as piss.
Dragon Nest at least gets rid of the complete lack of hotkeys for skills.
Actually in that way DN is more of a WoWification of Vindictus...
Having played both I prefer vind to DN.
Vindictus NOT having 2 lines of skills to run through constantly makes it feel more ac-like in play.
lol k.
Do I need to post screens of the 6 different hotkey bars I needed just to play a mage in AC?
Vindictus was fun-ish, but not having hotkeys makes combat awkward and unwieldy.
I'll be honest, though, I don't play either of them anymore because I get tired of running dungeons over and over and over.
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silvadel2
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Hawkson posted:
Look at how Warhammer catered, in some ways, to PVP and failed miserably due to Mythic's bad decisions.
Warhammer was a good game -- there are only a few reasons why it failed and it had nothing to do with the basic game...
1) Their hardware was not good enough to handle fortress battles. If their hardware handled fortress battles well then they wouldnt have had to mess with the rest of the game to try to avoid fortress battles, plus they could have been epic.
2) They had no balancing mechanism between the factions. Once one faction got far more players than the other faction -- they just consistently won. This was especially bad when they merged servers because all of a sudden your balanced server could become unbalanced.
3) They did insufficient testing/work on the actual city defenses/attack thing.
-------------
Personally I think the order and chaos realms should have shifted month to month. In essence when you get to the opposing city and sack it that should have been it. The city is destroyed. Each month the winners would play against the winners and the losers against the losers... IE Altdorf sacked on servers 1 2 6 and 7. Inevitable sacked on servers 3 4 5 and 8. Well we pit Altdorfs 1 vs Inevitables 3 and 2 vs 4 and 3 vs 1 and 4 vs 2 and etc....
If the balance is so very bad that say Altdorf was sacked on 1 2 3 5 6 and 7 and Inevitable only on 8 -- then the next month there would be some kind of bonus for the losing side.
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Fredegarr
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silvadel2 posted:
Hawkson posted:
Look at how Warhammer catered, in some ways, to PVP and failed miserably due to Mythic's bad decisions.
Warhammer was a good game -- there are only a few reasons why it failed and it had nothing to do with the basic game...
1) Their hardware was not good enough to handle fortress battles. If their hardware handled fortress battles well then they wouldnt have had to mess with the rest of the game to try to avoid fortress battles, plus they could have been epic.
2) They had no balancing mechanism between the factions. Once one faction got far more players than the other faction -- they just consistently won. This was especially bad when they merged servers because all of a sudden your balanced server could become unbalanced.
3) They did insufficient testing/work on the actual city defenses/attack thing.
-------------
Personally I think the order and chaos realms should have shifted month to month. In essence when you get to the opposing city and sack it that should have been it. The city is destroyed. Each month the winners would play against the winners and the losers against the losers... IE Altdorf sacked on servers 1 2 6 and 7. Inevitable sacked on servers 3 4 5 and 8. Well we pit Altdorfs 1 vs Inevitables 3 and 2 vs 4 and 3 vs 1 and 4 vs 2 and etc....
If the balance is so very bad that say Altdorf was sacked on 1 2 3 5 6 and 7 and Inevitable only on 8 -- then the next month there would be some kind of bonus for the losing side.
Don't forget:
4) 'PvP'ers avoided other players and just went around pveing to rank up.
5) Bright wizards.
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silvadel2
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Fredegarr posted:
Don't forget:
4) 'PvP'ers avoided other players and just went around pveing to rank up.
5) Bright wizards.
Sorry but #4 was mainly a function of the fortresses not working properly and not really having anything else to do. If there was an actual goal, you would have seen less of that.
As for #5 -- there is nothing wrong with an overpowered class on the side that is losing badly. If order didnt have bright wizards they just would have been sacked 95% of the time instead of 88% of the time.
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Phaelon_TD
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I have no hope for any MMO's at this point. I try the free trials, and I'm always disappointed.
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ikkoikki
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the_great_intex posted:
Planetside 2 might be pretty cool
I really liked the first planetside, the only bad part was the highly repetitive environments...the bases were all the same, the planets were all the same basically.
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alamo_We
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http://www.dominusthegame.com/game/
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Allmightybob_MLF
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silvadel2 posted:
Warhammer was a good game -- there are only a few reasons why it failed and it had nothing to do with the basic game...
Leveling in WAR was the worst I had ever encountered in any MMO. Ultima Online and EverQuest had more complicated monster AI. Nine tenth of the monsters just auto attacked, and the other tenth just dumped one skill (a DoT, or a stun) every time its timer was up. They also completely failed to deliver on public quests (I think only two quests had RvR in them). Having two realms, three separate fronts per realm, and four tiers per front fragmented the player base so much it was difficult to find a fight even on a full server, forcing you to play in the arenas only.
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Sgian_Dubh
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Phaelon_TD posted:
I have no hope for any MMO's at this point. I try the free trials, and I'm always disappointed.
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WhipSmack
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I am really surprised that there aren't more space flight or flight sims as well as vehicle mmos. Even the games that have vehicles in them they control like your characters just changed his skin and speed, that doesn't really count. I will definitely try planet side 2.
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ikkoikki
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Planetside was fun. Good satisfying combat both with vehicles and ground troops. I still remember a lot about that game.
Favorite faction: Terran Republic
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tantallous
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yeah im looking forward to planetside 2. a little sad that it looks like they went with at least a partially kit-based system with it, but it shouldn't be too bad. i just liked the complete customization allowed in the first one, and it doesn't look like you will be able to do as much in 2... but there's not enough info out to really know for sure.
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Hawkson
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silvadel2 posted:
Fredegarr posted:
Don't forget:
4) 'PvP'ers avoided other players and just went around pveing to rank up.
5) Bright wizards.
Sorry but #4 was mainly a function of the fortresses not working properly and not really having anything else to do. If there was an actual goal, you would have seen less of that.
As for #5 -- there is nothing wrong with an overpowered class on the side that is losing badly. If order didnt have bright wizards they just would have been sacked 95% of the time instead of 88% of the time.
Disagree 100%.
I played WAR for about a year, wrote articles for the WAR Vault. There was a very common theme. The complete and utter lack of balance. Mythic couldn't balance classes if their lives depended on it. The mirrors weren't even close. E.G. Ironbreakers outperforming Black Guards, BW's outperforming Sorcs. White Lions v. Marauders.
And, I don't know what server you were playing on...but Dark Crag was so heavily Order favored that it pretty much made parts of the game unplayable.
As I said more than once, Ruin et al ruined Dark Crag.
Mythic's inability to balance ruined the game.
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mightbe
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take old school AC, modify with the new ideas of newers rpgs, balance the characters, keep the pk fighting style, and raids, warzones, good to go
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mightbe posted:
take old school AC, make it a different game, good to go
Fixed for accuracy.
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WhipSmack
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mightbe posted:
take old school AC, modify with the new ideas of newers rpgs, balance the characters, keep the pk fighting style, and raids, warzones, good to go
I disagree, it was fun back then because it was NEW. I still remember running around the world saying HOLY CRAP I can run anywhere! New experiences is what is lacking today. I have plenty of innovative ideas that would work with todays current tech, I just need 10 million cash.
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Caledric
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Fairly_Gimp posted:
Onslaught. posted:
The biggest problem with MMOS these days is that they try to emulate wow....
I find the biggest problem in MMO's today, is people with a hard-on for WoW, who run around screaming "OMG JSUT LIEK WOW!!!!1111OMG!1" without realising around 80% of wow, if not more, is taken from other games...
yeah, kinda hard not to be WoW when they steal every innovative idea other games come up with and implement them half heartedly... I haven't played WoW yet, but I'm shocked they don't have Public Quests in an open world setting. Or do they have that now?
I know they are now looking to do some voice acting and take some other ideas from SWTOR... wonder if they'll try and steal anything from Planetside 2 lol.
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Sgian_Dubh
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The bottom line is that these game companies are out to make money.
How do you make money?
You put as little effort as possible into something you can market to as many people as possible, then charge as much as you can for it.
Innovative games are for a limited market.
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silvadel2
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Well I had a swordmaster and I found it fun.
Drifting Castle -- the initial server I chose was very good.
The merge into Red-Eye Mountain was not so nice.. It was somewhat skewed towards chaos.
The merge into Ironrock was a disaster -- was vastly skewed towards chaos and on like the first day they invaded altdorf 3 times. And it became a pattern.
Of course that merger was engineered against us -- order and chaos agreed on three servers to try to make a large balanced server and guilds were to move there... Unfortunately a few major order guilds decided to backstab at the last second and went to a different server without telling the group...
So in essence 70% of the order went over and 100% of the destro when it was already unbalanced a bit making the inbalance horribly severe.
The backstabbers managed to make for themselves an order dominated server and they got what they wanted.
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Terminius_Est
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Crafty_ac2 posted:
The Secret World looks interesting. No classes or levels and 3 factions that are against each other during the day but work together at night.
I was about to mention that. They also are doing something with Facebook. You can't get into the beta without a facebook account.
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Jyiiga
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AO/AOC launches.. I trust Funcom as far as I can throw their collective staff. Bunch of chronic liars.
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Crafty_ac2
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Jyiiga posted:
AO/AOC launches.. I trust Funcom as far as I can throw their collective staff. Bunch of chronic liars.
reading boards here sounds like you cant trust any company to do anything right.
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ferdinand.the.great
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Subject:
Is the MMO genre going anywhere new?
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Crafty_ac2 posted:
The Secret World looks interesting. No classes or levels and 3 factions that are against each other during the day but work together at night.
Absolutely. I'm looking forward to TSW quite a lot. Hopefully Funcom has figured out that they need to release their games in a fully playable state.
Jyiiga posted:
AO/AOC launches.. I trust Funcom as far as I can throw their collective staff. Bunch of chronic liars.
Funcom can't figure out how to launch a polished game, but AoC was a breath of fresh air, and if it had been finished at release, I think it would not only have been successful, but actually given us a new paradigm in the genre. The first 20 levels were the best MMO I've ever played. The levels after that were a mess. But a few key design changes -- zone changes in PvP servers were a mess -- and more polish, and it would have been great.
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silvadel2
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Is the MMO genre going anywhere new?
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Terminius_Est posted:
Crafty_ac2 posted:
The Secret World looks interesting. No classes or levels and 3 factions that are against each other during the day but work together at night.
I was about to mention that. They also are doing something with Facebook. You can't get into the beta without a facebook account.
That is just horrible. You shouldnt require facebook for that sort of thing.
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.-Vega-.
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Is the MMO genre going anywhere new?
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A masterpiece MMO needs to have the forgotten loot system that was used in AC. Every item was unique and thus every corpse was worth checking for items. I have no idea why this hasn't been copied.
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Chogram
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Is the MMO genre going anywhere new?
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.-Vega-. posted:
A masterpiece MMO needs to have the forgotten loot system that was used in AC. Every item was unique and thus every corpse was worth checking for items. I have no idea why this hasn't been copied.
Because while good in theory, and fun in nostalgia, the loot system in AC was inherently useless.
99.9% of the things that you looted late game were either sold for useless pyreals or turned into death items.
What most mmo's do with the loot system(basically no loot with the occasional rare drop) is the same thing, only without the useless inventory clutter.
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silvadel2
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Is the MMO genre going anywhere new?
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An AC item could have:
Very good AL
Very good specific AL (cold resistance)
The Major/Minor that you might need to cover
Be self-buffing to a very good AL
Be significantly LIGHTER than other alternatives
Be the correct color to match something or just be of a desirable color
Be of a good material for tinkering
Be of a high value to make for a death item
In essence there were tons of ways that item could be useful to someone.
ANY monster had a chance to drop you something good and you never knew what you were going to get.
Current MMOs -- Oh that monsters rare drop is pants for a mage and its uncommon drop is a shield for a tank -- Lets skip it.
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Chogram
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silvadel2 posted:
An AC item could have:
Very good AL
Very good specific AL (cold resistance)
The Major/Minor that you might need to cover
Be self-buffing to a very good AL
Be significantly LIGHTER than other alternatives
Be the correct color to match something or just be of a desirable color
Be of a good material for tinkering
Be of a high value to make for a death item
In essence there were tons of ways that item could be useful to someone.
ANY monster had a chance to drop you something good and you never knew what you were going to get.
Current MMOs -- Oh that monsters rare drop is pants for a mage and its uncommon drop is a shield for a tank -- Lets skip it.
And Decal made all of that useless by checking for you in one second if it was worth looking or not.
If it was such a great system, people wouldn't have automated it.
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Aethelgrin
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Chogram posted:
And Decal made all of that useless by checking for you in one second if it was worth looking or not.
If it was such a great system, people wouldn't have automated it.
Just because something is great doesn't mean people won't want to do it more easily or efficiently.
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-Mithan-
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Is the MMO genre going anywhere new?
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WhipSmack posted:
face yawn. I want me some 1000 vs 1000 battles and completely destructible environments, as well as atmospheric space flight, where I can take hundreds of people to the moon. Is this too much to ask for?
The MMO industry sort of sucks now. Firefall and PlanetSide 2 will offer some variety, but even those will be based on older gameplay mechanics done to death, however they will be "new" in that they will be a bit different than the usual crap that comes.
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ikkoikki
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I just think any game that has the balls to charge you monthly to play it has to be EXCELLENT.
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Dwaveran
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WAR ended up blowing because of balance between the classes, and mythic not listening and not caring about the players experience.
WAR had a lot of potential. Just executed poorly, and they had 100 chances to fix it and just said 'oh yeah let's do this' which was usually the opposite of what the players wanted.
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the_great_intex
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Dominus looks really cool too. Sanya from daoc is on the game dev team
http://www.dominusthegame.com/
3 realms, rvr. Hope they do it right. GW2 also is gonna have a rvr sort of deal too
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NeoKarnak
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.-Vega-. posted:
A masterpiece MMO needs to have the forgotten loot system that was used in AC. Every item was unique and thus every corpse was worth checking for items. I have no idea why this hasn't been copied.
I totally agree. If you left a corpse without looting it (for whatever reason), it felt like ripping up a lottery ticket. No other loot system and compelled me to fight near suicidal battles in order to upgrade my equipment.
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Mangler_SC
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Its all pixels anyway
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silvadel2
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Mangler_SC posted:
Its all pixels anyway
Actually, early on in AC there was nothing wrong at all with cashing in those 113 bows on ebay.
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WhipSmack
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silvadel2 posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
Its all pixels anyway
Actually, early on in AC there was nothing wrong at all with cashing in those 113 bows on ebay.
haha good times. Any other MMO's worth $ these days? SOE shut down Livegamer, that experiment failed hard, not because of the system though, because EQ2 sucked! It was great money for a few years thoough. I loved being able to buy and sell toons safely and keep them on your main account. It was a sweet system, if you got bored of your class you could sell it and buy another toon, I ended up collecting so many different characters. Unfortunately I doubt we'll ever see a system like that again with all the cash shops taking hold.
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WhipSmack
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Is the MMO genre going anywhere new?
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silvadel2 posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
Its all pixels anyway
Actually, early on in AC there was nothing wrong at all with cashing in those 113 bows on ebay.
haha good times. Any other MMO's worth $ these days? SOE shut down Livegamer, that experiment failed hard, not because of the system though, because EQ2 sucked! It was great money for a few years thoough. I loved being able to buy and sell toons safely and keep them on your main account. It was a sweet system, if you got bored of your class you could sell it and buy another toon, I ended up collecting so many different characters. Unfortunately I doubt we'll ever see a system like that again with all the cash shops taking hold.
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silvadel2
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Diablo 3 will be the big experiment in retro cash transactions...
It will have rare items and you will be able to sell them to other players.
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Tai-Daishar_MT
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Terminius_Est posted:
Crafty_ac2 posted:
The Secret World looks interesting. No classes or levels and 3 factions that are against each other during the day but work together at night.
I was about to mention that. They also are doing something with Facebook. You can't get into the beta without a facebook account.
This is absolutely untrue.
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