Sansfear
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Great example of why Medicare is going broke
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I have an extended family member that is going through chemotherapy and, as a side effect, has had to have a feeding tube installed since he can't eat normally.
He goes through a minimum of 3 8oz cans a day of formula. The supplier bills each can at $7.15 (per 8oz can). He is on Medicare, and they pick up the tab.
The identical product can be ordered from Amazon for ~$1.50 per can and they will ship it free to your door. Just do a search on Jevity on Amazon for examples. There is a wide variety of formulas available depending on the patient's requirements.
Gastric feeding tubes are becoming more and more common. Many elderly patients require them (some permanently) and preemies and some special needs children do as well.
The formula for them is a multi-billion-dollar business where insurance companies pay full retail without blinking and the suppliers make a fortune because of it.
This isn't a case of name-brand versus generics. It is the exact same product from different suppliers. If you were buying it yourself, you'd be shopping around for the best price, but, since someone else is paying for it, noone cares.
Upwards of a million people use enteral feeding. Switching suppliers would save ~$6K/year per patient. That is $6B in annual savings simply by switching suppliers.
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Walker_ID
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Great example of why Medicare is going broke
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yup...not just medicare either...this type of stuff happens for regular insurance
walmart for example has a butt ton of $4 drugs
if you have insurance they will charge your insurance full price AND you still pay your copay...so you end up paying $10-30 out of pocket and your insurance gets billed whatever for an otherwise $4 prescription
they pulled this mod on me once and i went home and looked at their list online and then pitched a fit...
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Aerlinthian
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Government subsidizes laziness, greed and stupidity. Old news.
But to the big government support team, they love it. They love all the corporatism & fascism that government enables in the name of their precious socialism. They love the abundance of overpaid jobs for lazy cretins that government enables. They love to believe in and prop up the lie that if you're against big government, you're against the working man...when the EXACT opposite is the truth.
The big government support team are the useful slaves to the system. Entrepreneurial spirits, seeking to make your own path, taking care of your own family, the liberty to make your own successes or failures. Those are all a terrifying prospect to a big government support team member. Oh no, can't have that.
EVERYONE IN! NOBODY OUT! EVERYONE IN! NOBODY OUT! EVERYONE IN! NOBODY OUT!
Fkin zombies 
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bstulic
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Aerlinthian posted:
Government subsidizes laziness, greed and stupidity. Old news.
But to the big government support team, they love it. They love all the corporatism & fascism that government enables in the name of their precious socialism. They love the abundance of overpaid jobs for lazy cretins that government enables. They love to believe in and prop up the lie that if you're against big government, you're against the working man...when the EXACT opposite is the truth.
The big government support team are the useful slaves to the system. Entrepreneurial spirits, seeking to make your own path, taking care of your own family, the liberty to make your own successes or failures. Those are all a terrifying prospect to a big government support team member. Oh no, can't have that.
EVERYONE IN! NOBODY OUT! EVERYONE IN! NOBODY OUT! EVERYONE IN! NOBODY OUT!
Fkin zombies
However, if it would be socialism, all that surplus money would be invested in better hospitals, roads and other public service,
and not into yachts and mansions for corporate leaders, You're right about "laziness, greed and stupidity", but in your case its
capitalism 
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Aerlinthian
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The American government is borrowing (against the will of the people) 41 cents of every dollar it spends. So if you think there is a surplus, you might be clueless.
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__Bonk__
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Great example of why Medicare is going broke
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Too many old people!
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bstulic
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Aerlinthian posted:
The American government is borrowing (against the will of the people) 41 cents of every dollar it spends. So if you think there is a surplus, you might be clueless.
How about you stop spending on defense more than rest of the globe combined?
You can't...but its because those corporate overlords hold government in pocket,
and not other way around
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Kjarhall
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The funny part is some people think that if the gov't wasn't involved this would go away.
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Aerlinthian
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bstulic posted:
You can't...but its because those corporate overlords hold government in pocket, and not other way around
Again, you don't know what you're talking about. The buck stops with the American people. If we collectively weren't retards, we would be voting out en-mass the politicians that enable corporatism.
The part you are complaining about is the part where people allow themselves into be duped for voting for establishment corporatist candidates. The establishment can only get away with what it does because too many people are too damn stupid to turn off the establishment media (including talk radio) and go do their own research.
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Kjarhall
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Aerlinthian posted:
bstulic posted:
You can't...but its because those corporate overlords hold government in pocket, and not other way around
Again, you don't know what you're talking about. The buck stops with the American people. If we collectively weren't retards, we would be voting out en-mass the politicians that enable corporatism.
The part you are complaining about is the part where people allow themselves into be duped for voting for establishment corporatist candidates. The establishment can only get away with what it does because too many people are too damn stupid to turn off the establishment media (including talk radio) and go do their own research.
Welcome to planet Earth. It ain't gonna change, get to used operating under these conditions.
This is why you and BT are so entertaining. You both think that society is capable of managing itself.
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Aerlinthian
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Kjarhall posted:
Welcome to planet Earth. It ain't gonna change, get to used operating under these conditions. This is why you and BT are so entertaining. You both think that society is capable of managing itself.
It is one thing to be too stupid to turn off the establishment outlets and conduct your own research.
It is entirely another to be a big government sycophant/operative who discourages people from getting weened off the system.
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Kjarhall
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Great example of why Medicare is going broke
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Aerlinthian posted:
It is entirely another to be a big government sycophant/operative who discourages people from getting weened off the system.
I have never met anyone that does that. Every person i've ever talked to that is in favor of social assistance has being off the system as an end goal.
Whether our methods work has always been the argument, not that anyone actively tries to keep people on it.
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-Ducky-
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Great example of why Medicare is going broke
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Kjarhall posted:
Aerlinthian posted:
It is entirely another to be a big government sycophant/operative who discourages people from getting weened off the system.
I have never met anyone that does that. Every person i've ever talked to that is in favor of social assistance has being off the system as an end goal.
Whether our methods work has always been the argument, not that anyone actively tries to keep people on it.
All the families I work with too want to be off of it, but the problem becomes getting all the safety nets yanked away at once and then being worse off than you were when you made less money because of all the benefits. The programs are not set up to reward achievements. They need to graduate people off of things like Medicaid, subsidized childcare, housing, etc. If you get all the subsidizes at $22,000 but loose them all at $25,000 you are now worse off. Instead it should be tiered to allow people to acclimatize and work towards self-sufficiency.
The insurance industry is ridiculous. Clearly there is something going on when there are two different prices for things: one with insurance and one without. There are even instances when doctors will not perform certain procedures because the Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement is too low. So something like a C-section and then a tubal ligation, which can be done at the same time while the patient is opened up, is broken up into two different surgeries so that the hospital can charge more
It's not always the recipients of welfare programs that are scamming the government. It's the Rick Scotts and other greedy individuals at the top who are also stealing from taxpayers.
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eodoll
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Do you know what medicare actually pays for it? Not what they were billed but what they pay? Its usually less than what they are billed.
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Aerlinthian
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-Ducky- posted:
The insurance industry is ridiculous.
This is only true currently because of legislation going all the way back to the LBJ era. Illegal government mandates have completely shattered the normal insurance model.
The counter claim to this that is typically bandied about is that; "without government the insurance companies will rip us off!!".
There are two main problems with this counter claim. One, we're getting ripped off under the current system. Two, ending the unconstitutional government mandates and regulations that enable corporatism does NOT mean that you would be getting rid of criminal laws against fraud, collusion, racketeering, monopolizing, etc.
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eodoll
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Lets say your back hurts and you go to the doctor - 9 times out of 10, youll walk out with a prescription for ibuprofen and vicodin.
Was the dr visit necessary?
Why not make those drugs OTC. They are both generic and cheap.
The dr office visit was added by the government as a way to force us to waste money.
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Sgian_Dubh
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Aerlinthian posted:
-Ducky- posted:
The insurance industry is ridiculous.
This is only true currently because of legislation going all the way back to the LBJ era. Illegal government mandates have completely shattered the normal insurance model.
The counter claim to this that is typically bandied about is that; "without government the insurance companies will rip us off!!".
There are two main problems with this counter claim. One, we're getting ripped off under the current system. Two, ending the unconstitutional government mandates and regulations that enable corporatism does NOT mean that you would be getting rid of criminal laws against fraud, collusion, racketeering, monopolizing, etc.
The biggest problem with your argument is that it is not supported very well by history.
We've all seen the result of un regulated capitalism, and it wasn't pretty for most people.
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Aerlinthian
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Sgian_Dubh posted:
The biggest problem with your argument is that it is not supported very well by history. We've all seen the result of un regulated capitalism, and it wasn't pretty for most people.
False, prior to the unconstitutional mandates of the LBJ era blue collar workers could readily afford routine medical care and insurance policies. (You can check that with NBER) It is the illegal and direct involvement of government that has since skyrocketed the costs, which corporatists so love.
It is highly ironic that the horrific and sweeping legislation of the LBJ era was called; "the war on poverty".
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Sgian_Dubh
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Aerlinthian posted:
Sgian_Dubh posted:
The biggest problem with your argument is that it is not supported very well by history. We've all seen the result of un regulated capitalism, and it wasn't pretty for most people.
False, prior to the unconstitutional mandates of the LBJ era blue collar workers could readily afford routine medical care and insurance policies. (You can check that with NBER) It is the illegal and direct involvement of government that has since skyrocketed the costs, which corporatists so love.
It is highly ironic that the horrific and sweeping legislation of the LBJ era was called; "the war on poverty".
Those same blue collar workers were making a helluva lot more than blue collar workers are today...
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Grymlo
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eodoll posted:
Lets say your back hurts and you go to the doctor - 9 times out of 10, youll walk out with a prescription for ibuprofen and vicodin.
Was the dr visit necessary?
Why not make those drugs OTC. They are both generic and cheap.
The dr office visit was added by the government as a way to force us to waste money.
Ibuprofen sure......vicodin not so sure.
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LadyGodiva.
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eodoll posted:
Lets say your back hurts and you go to the doctor - 9 times out of 10, youll walk out with a prescription for ibuprofen and vicodin.
Was the dr visit necessary?
Why not make those drugs OTC. They are both generic and cheap.
The dr office visit was added by the government as a way to force us to waste money.
Advil = ibuprofen. It's already OTC.
Vicodin is often abused.
I do think doctors prescribe too many drugs though. You can get through a lot of things without painkillers. I never used the vicodin I was prescribed for my wisdom teeth extraction... and I could open up a small pharmacy with all the antibiotics and various pills that we've gathered through the years which were much more than we needed (take for 10 days but they give you enough for 20).
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Ptilk
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medicare isn't going broke.
Anyone who thinks it is....is a god damn idiot.
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Elkad
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It's not just medicare.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/anatomy-a-ripoff-article-1.1002077
As but one example of what I discovered, consider Ondansetron HCl, an anti-nausea medication that both hospitals administered to my son. Good Samaritan charged $439.90 for the drug; Aetna allowed $77.63. Somerset charged $6.52; Aetna paid $3.26.
Medicare pays 17 cents per dose.
258,000% markup for people paying cash vs medicare.
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paulg_68
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Ptilk posted:
medicare isn't going broke.
Anyone who thinks it is....is a god damn idiot.
Projected costs are much higher than projected revenue.
Please explain how that doesn't result in going broke if something isn't done to either reduce costs or increase revenues.
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eodoll
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Well i know exactly what drug i need when my back hurts. Vicodin and motrin. Sometimes i need valium or soma too.
I dont need to see a doctor to determine what i need.
So that hospital visit (extra business for the dr, hospital and pharmacist) is legislated and mandated by the government. Its a sham and a way to rip us off and funnel our money into other peoples pockets.
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paulg_68
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Big government types are happy to take away the rights of individuals who are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves if it means expanding government and protecting the dumbest members of society.
Freedom means nothing to libtards.
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eodoll
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Its like regulating us into using other peoples business service and then saying "oh thats cpensive?"
Get insurance. And then they make a big fuss about insurance.
So many hospital and dr visits are pointless..if drugs were OTC then many people would have no need to see a dr or pharmacist. Vicodin is generic and a 50 pack costs 7.99. An 8$ drug ends up costing the onsumer several hundred when you take in the paperwork, time and dr visits.
Anyway, the system needs complete overhaul; the way it is today , its designed to rip us off. Even hospitals dont have to post their rates and surcharges so we cant even shop around.
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Groucho48
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The Bush Administration made it illegal for Medicare to shop for the best price. The VA can and it has much lower drug costs.
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Elkad
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Should be illegal for medical services to charge wildly different amounts because of your payment method.
It is for the rest of business.
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Groucho48 posted:
The Bush Administration made it illegal for Medicare to shop for the best price.
I assume Obama and the Democrats reversed that when they had the chance right?
Right?
/crickets
That's what I thought.
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theredkay1
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The affordable care act required drug companies in certain circumstances to offer name brand drugs at a significant discount. Savings of around a billion a year in drug costs.
Wonder why the group in DC who is most panicked about government spending didnt push this further?
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Groucho48
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paulg_68 posted:
Groucho48 posted:
The Bush Administration made it illegal for Medicare to shop for the best price.
I assume Obama and the Democrats reversed that when they had the chance right?
Right?
/crickets
That's what I thought.
I believe they tried, as a part of health care reform, but all Republicans and a few Blue Dogs voted against it. You, of course, will still blame Obama.
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paulg_68
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Everyone agreed that the Senate version of the bill was a turd. You included.
The only reason anyone changed their mind was that some people value partisanship over the good of the country.
It's hard to get mad at Republicans and blue dogs for opposing a bill that even mindless Democrat partisans admitted was crap.
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Groucho48
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Reconciliation got rid of the worst stuff. Yes, the bill is not nearly as strong or good as it could have been, but, it is better than what there was. As the several million young adults who are now insured under their parents policy can attest. And, while I'm too lazy to look back, the part allowing Medicare to look for the lowest bid for prescription meds was a separate amendment and was voted down by the usual right wing suspects.
Obamacvare isn't even the half a loaf of lore, but, even a couple slices of bread is better than the sawdust we had before.
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Kjarhall
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Aerlinthian posted:
Sgian_Dubh posted:
The biggest problem with your argument is that it is not supported very well by history. We've all seen the result of un regulated capitalism, and it wasn't pretty for most people.
False, prior to the unconstitutional mandates of the LBJ era blue collar workers could readily afford routine medical care and insurance policies. (You can check that with NBER) It is the illegal and direct involvement of government that has since skyrocketed the costs, which corporatists so love.
It is highly ironic that the horrific and sweeping legislation of the LBJ era was called; "the war on poverty".
Proof?
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AzureTyger
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Great example of why Medicare is going broke
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It is amazing to me how much the capital class can rely on the blissful stupidity and lack of understanding that rank and file right wingers possess.
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sweeny_comodore
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Great example of why Medicare is going broke
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paulg_68 posted:
Big government types are happy to take away the rights of individuals who are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves if it means expanding government and protecting the dumbest members of society.
Freedom means nothing to libtards.
how bout pass a universal helthcare bill the excludes anyone making over 150k/yr.
if you want to pay some private insurance company twice as much for half the service, then feel free to do so. i know how hard it can be to find a place to spend the extra money thats burning a hole in your wallet, but let the rest of us get cheap, common sense, healthcare when we need it.
and since you are going to complain about that being class warfare, then leave we can even leave it entirely up to you. support your greedy private companies or join the regular joes.
if you dont like this idea, then stfu. you were given the fair choice your freedoms demanded.
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GrilledCheez
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Great example of why Medicare is going broke
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Free is generally the most expensive.
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Ashmaele
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Great example of why Medicare is going broke
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sweeny_comodore posted:
paulg_68 posted:
Big government types are happy to take away the rights of individuals who are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves if it means expanding government and protecting the dumbest members of society.
Freedom means nothing to libtards.
how bout pass a universal helthcare bill the excludes anyone making over 150k/yr.
It is pretty clear that Paul does not want people making less than that to have healthcare duh
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sweeny_comodore
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i thought he just wanted a choice on which profiteer to freely make richer.
i guess not allowing the lessthans to have health insurance isnt really class warfare since its a privilege theyve never really had from the get go.
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Jesus? No, but there is indeed a god shaped hole in the heart of man, why is yours so empty? -- snarf igraine the original monotheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus
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