Sea_of_inK
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/nation-world-news/drug-sniffing-dogs-center-of-controversy-involving-home-searches-1314671.html
An anonymous tipster reports that you’re growing marijuana in your home. Police bring a drug-sniffing dog to your doorstep with no other evidence and without first obtaining a warrant. Has your privacy been invaded?
The U.S. Supreme Court will decide whether the dog sniff is an illegal search, hearing the case of a Miami man who was arrested after a dog alerted to the smell of marijuana from outside his home.
The case is expected to provide a pivotal decision on the definition of privacy.
This is happening in Florida.
Seems like a big invasion of privacy to me. Should dogs really be able to issue warrants? The home is a sanctuary.
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Thugoneous
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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I think they should be able to go up to the property line with the dog without a warrant. But the front door no.
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Kordirn
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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I don't think it should be allowed. Seems to me like it gives cops an extremely easy way to search your house. I could see a cop just saying "Oh yeah the dog gave us a positive" when there is no definitive way to prove that he actually did.
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Special-Fred
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Thugoneous posted:
I think they should be able to go up to the property line with the dog without a warrant. But the front door no.
This. They shouldn't be going on the property without a warrant.
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cabbyman
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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You ever see what that stuff does to kids?
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-Ducky-
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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I didn't read the article, but I'm surprised they had no other evidence at all? I mean usually when you want to bust your drug dealing neighbor you have to call and call and call and write down. If it was as easy as the snippet is made to sound then we'd have grow ops closed down all the time. We struggle in my community getting drug houses shut down because we're told every time that they can't just go in there without a warrant and surveillance/etc.
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__Bonk__
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Great way for a mean neighbor to cause trouble for neighbors they dont like. Just call the cops and say you think they might be using and selling drugs there.
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Tych2
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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It's out of bounds for me.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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The 'anonymous tipster' is the big problem.
You cannot question that initial accuser, then the cop shows up with an invasive tool. It's the same as him showing up and using a surveillance device on an anonymous tip... not kosher IMO.
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Allstarslacker
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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That's a pretty hard question to answer really.
A cop can go knock on your door and if in the process of doing that he notices something that gives him probable cause it's fine.
I don't see how that changes if he happens have a dog with him.
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IMHO
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Colorado has the "Medical Marijuana" Law. I do maintenance for a couple of building owners where their tenants have grow operations going. For as much pot as I have smoked in the past I never knew what fresh growing pot smells like. I do now and I can tell you it has a strong smell to it. I now can drive down a street and tell if there is a grow operation near by.
If this guy was a grow operation they wouldn't have needed a dog to smell it.
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NuEM
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Growing it shouldn't be illegal in the first place.
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GrilledCheez
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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I agree growing it should not be illegal. I think a dog sniff outside will be ruled constitutional under that fact pattern though. not sure about bringing the dog inside.
The supreme court has already ruled that a dog sniff of your car isn't an unreasonable search.
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Koneg
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Sea_of_inK posted:
An anonymous tipster reports that you’re growing marijuana in your home.
But your subject posits that they showed up with out evidence???
Sorry to burst your bubble, but someone dropping a dime on your ass is all the evidence they need to obtain a warrant.
As to this specific case, the SCOTUS is going to rule it an illegal search. The dog was on his property already (front porch presumably) and to be there and have the dog take a sniff requires a warrant.
Edit: And as I think about it, between the anonymous tip and the dog, those two combined equal probable cause to suspect a crime is actively being committed, and they don't need a warrant then.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Chances are there was no anonymous tipster. The pigs just didn't want to say how they really found the grow house. A police chopper probably spotted it with an infrared camera.
Something those fascist pigs aren't supposed to be doing...
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Aerlinthian
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Allstarslacker posted:
That's a pretty hard question to answer really.
No it isn't. This is a open and shut matter that was one of the things that spurred a revolution.
NuEM posted:
Growing it shouldn't be illegal in the first place.
It isn't illegal under the constitution.
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Allstarslacker
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Aerlinthian posted:
Allstarslacker posted:
That's a pretty hard question to answer really.
No it isn't. This is a open and shut matter that was one of the things that spurred a revolution.
What made it an illegal search?
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Aerlinthian
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Hint: writ of assistance
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Allstarslacker
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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I don't see what that has to do with anything in this case.
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Walker_ID
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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i saw this on reddit a month or so ago...i linked several relevant court decisions regarding homes and searches...the court usually rules heavily in favor of protections in terms of searching one's home...and what constitutes a search...
and based off the recent gps placed on vehicles ruling the court is being very sensible about what constitutes a search...
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Friarspam
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Allstarslacker posted:
That's a pretty hard question to answer really.
A cop can go knock on your door and if in the process of doing that he notices something that gives him probable cause it's fine.
I don't see how that changes if he happens have a dog with him.
The cop can do all that but he also has to meet another requirement, "lawful presence". Why was he there in the first place? Now, if someone claimed that you had drugs I don't see the problem with him going up to the door, knocking and asking if they have drugs, etc. Bringing a dog? No. All he is doing is trying to use the dog to establish some sort of probable cause. If he was WALKING his dog along a sidewalk and the dog went nuts on the house, ok I could see where he'd have reasonable suspicion and could build a case from there.
/in the end, it'll be up to the courts
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Thugoneous
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Aerlinthian posted:
NuEM posted:
Growing it shouldn't be illegal in the first place.
It isn't illegal under the constitution.
Neither is murder
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Yukishiro1
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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I don't really see what's wrong with it. The cop is allowed to go knock on your door and ask you a question just like anyone else is allowed to come up and knock on your door. Why he can't bring a dog with him I don't really know.
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__Bonk__
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Call the police on any group of people in the 20-30s with a dog like that and I bet the police will find some sort of contraband
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Huges07.1
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I don't really see what's wrong with it. The cop is allowed to go knock on your door and ask you a question just like anyone else is allowed to come up and knock on your door. Why he can't bring a dog with him I don't really know.
This.
But in order to enter the bastards need a warrant.
Though I'm sure that is all going to change soon enough. Enjoy your new police state, Amerika!
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__Bonk__
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Huges call the cops on the people with the pitbull. Say anoynomously taht you suspect drug activity with people coming and going at odd hours.
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Huges07.1
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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I'm not a snitch!
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vn_nnanji
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Could I have all of your addresses please?
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Walker_ID
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I don't really see what's wrong with it. The cop is allowed to go knock on your door and ask you a question just like anyone else is allowed to come up and knock on your door. Why he can't bring a dog with him I don't really know.
bringing the dog onto your property is only for one purpose and that is to search...they went onto the property knowingly intending to use the dog for that purpose...
a cop can not go up to your door and put a mic against your door to record or hear your conversation inside a house...why would a dog be allowed to smell something in your house?
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__Bonk__
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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They need a search warrant!
I would demand it if they showed up at my place
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Walker_ID
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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__Bonk__ posted:
They need a search warrant!
I would demand it if they showed up at my place
if i ever decide to own my own home it will be fenced...even the driveway....they will not be able to enter my property
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__Bonk__
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Always demand to see their badges and the search warrant. They will be pissed but do it. You have rights. If they destroy your property file a claim with the city
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Huges07.1
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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The fire dept came to our house once to check a gas leak and took my brother's barely legal sawed off shotgun!
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Halloweve
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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At my house..with no evidence? NO.
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sweeny_comodore
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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any more of our rights that you people want to freely hand over?
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Koneg
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Aerlinthian posted:
It isn't illegal under the constitution.
Really? Could you point out for me please where the Constitution forbids Congress and the President from making and signing laws? This should be fascinating.
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Walker_ID
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Koneg posted:
Aerlinthian posted:
It isn't illegal under the constitution.
Really? Could you point out for me please where the Constitution forbids Congress and the President from making and signing laws? This should be fascinating.
the law they use as a basis for drug laws is the commerce clause...which is grossly abused...
how can you regulate something that isn't sold?
according to that ridiculous interpretation of the commerce clause it can obviously be argued that the federal govt has the power to prevent the sale...but i agree with aer that the constitution as written and intended left the right of what can and can't be sold to the states
and to address your question the entire bill of rights says explicitly in places that congress can't pass certain laws....
and now a question for you?
has congress never passed a law that was unconstitutional?
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Yukishiro1
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Walker_ID posted:
bringing the dog onto your property is only for one purpose and that is to search
A cop is allowed to go onto your property just to search too as long as they don't go inside your house without your permission and just confine themselves to looking at what is in plain view.
You don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the smells coming out of your house.
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Walker_ID
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Walker_ID posted:
bringing the dog onto your property is only for one purpose and that is to search
A cop is allowed to go onto your property just to search too as long as they don't go inside your house without your permission and just confine themselves to looking at what is in plain view.
You don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the smells coming out of your house.
there is a protected area of your property called curbage...what that is isn't totally defined but iirc it is at least a 50 yard(or feet?) perimeter around your house....and anything fenced counts as curbage...so while the cops could walk around the outer areas of your property they couldn't approach your house and say look thru windows
and the court has ruled that the home is your sanctuary...they even ruled in Kyllo that the police couldn't even take thermal images of the outside of the home that looked for hot spots...it was argued that the scan wasn't actually penetrating the home...they were merely seeing heat outside the home which has no reasonable expectation of privacy...its the same argument that you are using with the dog...and the court wasn't having any of that
granted the kyllo case involved technology but as i said...there is lots of precedent about the protected areas of your home
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Walker_ID
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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the word i was looking for was curtilage not curbage
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vn_nnanji
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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It's always funny when OP know it alls argue law with a lawyer.
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Yukishiro1
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Dog sniffs are different. The court said that like 50 years ago. They don't count as a search, period. Kyllo was all about technology.
Unless they revisit that holding it's fine. You can do whatever you want with a dog, assuming you're lawfully in the place.
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Dog sniffs are different. The court said that like 50 years ago. They don't count as a search, period.
i've heard people say that and i'm not disputing it but i haven't seen the case where that was decided
Yukishiro1 posted:
Unless they revisit that holding it's fine. You can do whatever you want with a dog, assuming you're lawfully in the place.
fortunately this case is revisiting this
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Kjarhall
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Walker_ID posted:
__Bonk__ posted:
They need a search warrant!
I would demand it if they showed up at my place
if i ever decide to own my own home it will be fenced...even the driveway....they will not be able to enter my property
If you think that's going accomplish anything you're in for a rude surprise.
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Aerlinthian
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Dogs can be easily manipulated into giving signals that capricious enforcers of law want. And those same capricious enforcers of law can just claim that they got a signal from a creature that can not be cross examined or held to legal account for its actions...
The court will revisit this dynamic.
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eodoll
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Obama will make a law that drug dealers are linked with terrorism and this will give police all the rights they need to break into your house and do whatever they want.
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Mag-Galahad
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I don't really see what's wrong with it. The cop is allowed to go knock on your door and ask you a question just like anyone else is allowed to come up and knock on your door. Why he can't bring a dog with him I don't really know.
There's nothing wrong with it if the dog is only there as protection of the cop. But that wasnt the case; the dog was there being used as an investigative tool while on the property of the home owner. In order for him to use that dog as it is intended - a drug sniffer - he needed a warrant to be there.
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Elkad
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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When the cop comes through my gate, he's trespassing. If he gets to the front door and knocks, he's still trespassing. Now I may decide to let him slide on that, but that is MY choice.
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Yukishiro1
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Elkad posted:
When the cop comes through my gate, he's trespassing. If he gets to the front door and knocks, he's still trespassing. Now I may decide to let him slide on that, but that is MY choice.
That's not how the law works. Unless your gate is locked.
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eodoll
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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I seem to remember stories of the DEA using infrared equipment from helicopters to detect growing operations (the heat from all the grow lamps). If that was legal then this is too.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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eodoll posted:
I seem to remember stories of the DEA using infrared equipment from helicopters to detect growing operations (the heat from all the grow lamps). If that was legal then this is too.
That wasn't legal. Read my previous post.
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Allstarslacker
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Aerlinthian posted:
Dogs can be easily manipulated into giving signals that capricious enforcers of law want. And those same capricious enforcers of law can just claim that they got a signal from a creature that can not be cross examined or held to legal account for its actions...
The court will revisit this dynamic.
That's a problem that will always exist in law enforcement. It doesn't matter if there is a dog or not. What you're going on is the word of the officer.
Police officers are sworn to uphold the law. In order to do that effectively a large amount of trust must be placed in them. That trust can be, and often is, abused.
The only way to get rid of it completely is to get rid of police, but I think that would cause more problems than it would solve.
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Allstarslacker
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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eodoll posted:
I seem to remember stories of the DEA using infrared equipment from helicopters to detect growing operations (the heat from all the grow lamps). If that was legal then this is too.
It's not enough to go into a house, but they do use it to identify houses they need to pay special attention to.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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Subject:
Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Allstarslacker posted:
eodoll posted:
I seem to remember stories of the DEA using infrared equipment from helicopters to detect growing operations (the heat from all the grow lamps). If that was legal then this is too.
It's not enough to go into a house, but they do use it to identify houses they need to pay special attention to.
Thus, the anonymous tip. Or a bullshit false positive from a drug dog.
Are we starting to understand now? 
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Allstarslacker
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Should police be able to show up at your door with a drug sniffing dog and no evidence?
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Understand what?
I was raised by a cop. I know all their tricks.
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