Eager_Igraine
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US Miltary Drawdown: Europe a TDY post?
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/16543456
posted:
Rotating troops in and out of Europe, rather than having them stationed there, would mean they did not have to be accompanied by their families - a considerable reduction in cost.
"Our budget is basically designed to reinforce the new missions we are talking about and that agile, deployable and ready force that has to move quickly," said Mr Panetta.
He said he had spoken to European allies about the changes, but did not give a timescale for the withdrawals.
The US currently has four combat brigades stationed in Europe - three in Germany and the fourth in Italy. Each brigade has about 4,000 members. The troops have regularly been deployed from Europe to combat duties in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I wonder how this will work out.
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__Bonk__
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Wow they wont have their familys anymore?
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Tych2
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That's pretty crappy.
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Taliesihne
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US Miltary Drawdown: Europe a TDY post?
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Meh, not a big deal. They already do this in other parts of the world. Korea comes to mind (I'm aware it's not universal - stay with me here): my Dad spent the first 4 years of my life TDY to Korea. (Gone for 6 - 9 months, home for 1 - 2 then back).
It does take away one of the few things that is truly great about being a military family though.
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ZigmundZag
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US Miltary Drawdown: Europe a TDY post?
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Korea's been the same way. The upside, other than savings, is that you only stay in country for a year. The downside is that you only stay in country for a year.
The better solution is to GTFO of Europe. We were working on doing this up until about 11 years ago....
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__Bonk__
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The US should just remove all troops from Europe. The EU doesnt need supervision anymore. Its totally recovered from WW2
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Taliesihne
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US Miltary Drawdown: Europe a TDY post?
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We have strategic bases in Europe that can't be abandoned.
However, a huge reduction in troops and bases is warranted.
Thinking about this some, I'm actually wondering where the cost savings come in. We already don't have enough military housing for families stateside.
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__Bonk__
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The US cant afford to be so warlike anymore. Its madness.
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Eager_Igraine
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I assume the savings will come in part for not having to ship families and goods back and forth across the Atlantic. I'm not sure if there will be substantial savings from the difference in paycheck bumps that totally enhance the income for being overseas vs. the bump in paychecks for being TDY for a year at a time. I'm also not sure how much the fed subsidizes AAFES and other businesses that operate on post and how that might translate into more savings when they are shut down.
I'm not sure how badly it will suck as I never went to Korea, but I did spend a year in Germany and also a year TDY in Europe. Both experiences were pretty cool in general, but I was a single soldier with no debt so others might have different thoughts about it all.
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ZigmundZag
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Uh, you kinda forgot housing allotments, meals, maintaining housing on post, chartering DOD schools and probably several other expenses associated with keeping families overseas. It's a lot more than just the cost of shipping them there and back (though some of these expenses would still be incurred by families stateside, some wouldn't and nearly all of them would be cheaper to run stateside).
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Ptilk
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The largest part of the saving will come from the almost 100K fewer troops that will be in the military starting in the next 2 years...this is just part of that. Instead of having 80K troops permanently stationed in Europe, they will rotate troops that are currently stationed stateside in and out to maintain a presence, but of a much lighter and more mobile nature.
Once the economy picks up for real (if it ever does), that number of troops to be reduced will increase dramatically. The US Army will see the largest number of reductions....unless they finally get rid of the Marines altogether. Which, although a good idea, will never happen.
Standing US military force will drop from around 1.5 million to under 800K eventually. Should drop much further than that based upon defense issues only, but the military also serves as a jobs program and it's damn successful at it...which will mean the standing force will never drop to the number it could based upon security alone, around 400K.
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Eager_Igraine
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Eager_Igraine posted:
I assume the savings will come in part ...
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Eager_Igraine
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Ptilk why would getting rid of the Marines be a good idea? They seem to be quite effective at their jobs.
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Ptilk
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Their mission is redundant. They are organized as a fast reaction force delivered by sea very rapidly.
At this time, there are not enough ships in active service to actually deliver more than about half of them, and future cuts already agreed upon will reduce that even more. We spend a TON of money keeping the Marines equipped and trained....and what they are equipped and trained for isn't even possible.
Nothing against Marines, but their mission and reason for existence has been supplanted by changes in the nature of war and technology. The US Army can respond to anywhere in the world just as quickly with the same number of troops as the Marines can these days. It makes no sense (or cents) to have two forces trained and equipped for the exact same mission.
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ZigmundZag
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Eager_Igraine posted:
Eager_Igraine posted:
I assume the savings will come in part ...
..and then the rest of your post where you explained why the TDY designation wouldn't save that much money, unless I misunderstood your post entirely.
Keeping soldiers overseas is going to be expensive regardless, but this will save DOD a pretty hefty sum at the end of the day. Like I said, drawing down Europe entirely is the better way to go. TDY assignments are extremely hard on families.
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Moe_Nox
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Ptilk is spot on here and echoes something many of us have been saying for years; not any marines tho.
The marines perform the same job as the army. Get rid of them. Roll the SEALS and other special ops into the army's green berets and JSOC.
Any units or mos that is critical to the navy or of a special nature to fleet operations gets rolled into.. the navy. Tah dah.
The Marine force as a whole is trained to do assaults that will not take place any longer. There are no more D-Days.
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ZigmundZag
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It would take an act of Congress to shut down the Marines and Congress doesn't care about what's efficient.
The way to do it is to merge Marine training with 11B training. There'd be lots of bitching and probably more than a few fights in the barracks, but eventually they'll be perceived as redundant functions.
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reesescups
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I can agree about redundancy and efficiency but I think some of you are suggesting it's implementation backassardly.
The marines have to long and strong of a history, and well I guess the army does too fighting injuns and such. But the marines do everything the army does and more. The marines already report under the dept of the navy. You get more bang for the buck disbanding the us army and bumping up the navy (marines) a bit.
Not only do you get rid of the on the ground foot redundancy, you also get rid of an entire war department!
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__Bonk__
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One of the first jobs of the Marines was to fight Mexicans
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reesescups
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Mexicans - native Americans...
Whateva
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__Bonk__
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The song about marines tells the history
They fought the pirates in Tripoly and they mexicans in the mexican American war
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Bad news for my cousin then. He escaped his ("impregnable"(or is it uninpregnable?)) pregnant girlfriend by being deployed to Japan where he sired two more children by a Japanese girl. I think he actually married her too, or they're at least living together.
I don't know the details of this story well but the important thing to note here is that my genes are literally superior.
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Thugoneous
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Reducing the number of Cruisers(CG) by 8 is stupid. It's the most dangerous sea weapon after the carrier. The Carrier Strike Group always has a CG attached to it to use as air defense commander. The DDX isn't designed for that mission. The biggest issue with the CGs is that the evaporators fail quite often...and force reductions that Bush has handed the fleet making it nearly impossible to keep qualified personnel manned.
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Eager_Igraine
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US Miltary Drawdown: Europe a TDY post?
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ZigmundZag posted:
Eager_Igraine posted:
Eager_Igraine posted:
I assume the savings will come in part ...
..and then the rest of your post where you explained why the TDY designation wouldn't save that much money, unless I misunderstood your post entirely.
Keeping soldiers overseas is going to be expensive regardless, but this will save DOD a pretty hefty sum at the end of the day. Like I said, drawing down Europe entirely is the better way to go. TDY assignments are extremely hard on families.
Ah. I was thinking while typing. I'm not sure what the various costs/benefits would be and expect there would be net savings going TDY, but realized there are lots of factors I don't know about and haven't considered - the maint. and schools you mentioned being big ones.
Ptilk, I dunno, why not separate out the Combat Arms from the Army and blend them into Marines, leaving the Army all support for the other branches?
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smellymotor
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i would have thought the marines would be more useful in this coming century with the US wanting to keep its presence in the ASPAC region.
/notanarmchairgeneralthough
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Kordirn
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Should just close down our bases. Europe can take care of themselves.
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__Bonk__
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Kordirn posted:
Should just close down our bases. Europe can take care of themselves.
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Z-Elder
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I LUV me some TDY! I spent 3 1/2 years with 2 different TDY duties. It is sweet. Especially when there is a Hotel room that goes with it.
Pork! nom nom nom... 
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Thugoneous
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I think it's going to be considered a deployment. They'll receive family separation pay. They'll likely stay in the barracks/housing already on the bases they will be TDY to.
The problem with this will be degradation of equipment when you're only a few weeks/months away from leaving some people will let things go to crap.
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Z-Elder posted:
I LUV me some TDY! I spent 3 1/2 years with 2 different TDY duties. It is sweet. Especially when there is a Hotel room that goes with it.
Pork! nom nom nom...
Amen
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Z-Elder
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Thugoneous posted:
I think it's going to be considered a deployment. They'll receive family separation pay. They'll likely stay in the barracks/housing already on the bases they will be TDY to.
The problem with this will be degradation of equipment when you're only a few weeks/months away from leaving some people will let things go to crap.
Yep. Part of my 3 1/2 years are exactly what you said. Still the benefits are sweet compared to a normal duty station.
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Brother_Tempus
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Taliesihne posted:
We have strategic bases in Europe that can't be abandoned..
Yes we can, there is no constitutional authority for them
Taliesihne posted:
We already don't have enough military housing for families stateside.
That's becuase we have too much military
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Ashmaele
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Taliesihne posted:
We have strategic bases in Europe that can't be abandoned..
Yes we can, there is no constitutional authority for them
Do you believe you have a right to privacy?
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